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The Official *England to The Six Nations Title (and the Triple Crown)* Thread

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Post by Duty281 Mon 13 Jan 2014, 7:51 pm

England are building. Since the embarrassment of the 2011 Rugby World Cup, Stuart Lancaster has been moving England forward to a happier, brighter future.  A future with hope. A future where overall victory in 2015 isn't out of the question. A future that is English.

In the beginning of Lancaster's reign, in the 2011 Six Nations, an unexpected four out of five victories were netted for England. Scotland, Italy and France were all beaten away. Ireland were thumped at home after England scrummaging dominance. In the middle of all that though were the Welsh, and they scuppered any chances of unlikely glory with a narrow seven-point win.

Then England went off to South Africa in the summer. The young and inexperienced English lost two and drew one, but did take a modicum of credit for their performance in the difficult South African environment. Back at the home of rugby in the autumn, England thrashed a weak Fijian side. Agony then preceded ecstasy. Close defeats to Australia and South Africa were first, where England missed several chances to win both games, before the unbelievable high of beating the World Champions by 17 points followed. Finally, England showed what they could do.

Four wins to start 2013 followed. Scotland were dominated, Ireland were out-muscled, France were overpowered, and Italy were also beaten. Then there was Wales. Grand Slam Glory for 2013 was utterly destroyed by a rampant Wales team, fully intent on spoiling the English party. Wales had the honours, the bragging rights and the trophy. England had to pick herself up again. In the most humiliating defeat, may you find your greatest strength.

Fast-forward to the summer, and a youthful England side beat a very poor Argentine side twice. Then Lancaster could punch the air once more, as England defeated Australia by seven points at Twickers. Another victory over the Argies followed, before, once again, England took on the World Champions and emerged with great credit. This time it was gallant defeat, not heroic victory, but England had shown again what they were capable of.

Lancaster has called this a defining year in the lead-up to 2015. It's certainly a very defining Six Nations. A trip to Paris is first - France v England will always make the mouth water. Then away to Scotland - not too difficult surely, for England? Home to Ireland for the 3rd game - so long the bogey team for England, now the tables have turned with England's forward dominance. England may have to be a bit wary though - just remember what Ireland nearly did to New Zealand! 4th game, home to Wales - it will define everything, rest assured of that. Finishing off with Italy - let's hope England don't slip on the banana skin.

Today on the English landscape, there is an English rugby side filled with optimism. One that holds the required belief necessary for success. Is there superb depth for England, thus covering the injuries? Yes. Is it the best team in the Northern Hemisphere on paper? Yes.

Best go and prove it lads....Come on England!


Last edited by Duty281 on Sat 01 Feb 2014, 7:31 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Scratch Mon 13 Jan 2014, 8:05 pm

I think the pursuit of the Slam is England's biggest problem, apart from the centre issue, how often in the last 15 years has England been hyped up for the Slam and crumbled under the pressure? Too much press obsession with Slams distracts them.

IMO Paris is the biggest game SL has had to manage, defining almost and if England win it is all on again, but if they lose, they can still win the championship though it could all come apart. If SL fails in this 6 Nations then i cannot see England having a good year at all.

But, a win in the 6 Nations, slam or not, could set them up for a decent showing in NZ.

But, let's go with the usual rhetoric…. Congratulations England on winning another Grand Slam, mine's an XL…. Run


Last edited by Scratch on Tue 14 Jan 2014, 1:17 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by GloriousEmpire Mon 13 Jan 2014, 11:23 pm

Optimism based on "gallant defeats" and getting smashed by Wales might be considered by some to be bordering on delusion don't you think?

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Post by Scratch Tue 14 Jan 2014, 5:16 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:Optimism based on "gallant defeats" and getting smashed by Wales might be considered by some to be bordering on delusion don't you think?

As delusional as suggesting NZ is good at sailing after losing an 8 race advantage in the America's Cup  Doh 

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Post by rainbow-warrior Tue 14 Jan 2014, 5:26 am

Scratch wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:Optimism based on "gallant defeats" and getting smashed by Wales might be considered by some to be bordering on delusion don't you think?

As delusional as suggesting NZ is good at sailing after losing an 8 race advantage in the America's Cup  Doh 

Hahaha to see smugness change to sulks gradually was brilliant.

England to be 2nd best in NH & 6 Nations and a total whitewash in NZ, so 2nd best all round then:)
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Post by aucklandlaurie Tue 14 Jan 2014, 5:42 am

Scratch wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:Optimism based on "gallant defeats" and getting smashed by Wales might be considered by some to be bordering on delusion don't you think?

As delusional as suggesting NZ is good at sailing after losing an 8 race advantage in the America's Cup  Doh 


The only reason England has never lost The Americas Cup is because theyve never won it.

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Post by Biltong Tue 14 Jan 2014, 5:53 am

I think if England wants to prove they are undoubtedly the best team in the NH then a grandslam is non negotiable, otherwise there will be some demons in the 2015 RWC.

Wales have won the last two encounters against England, Australia is 1/2 over their past two encounters.

This RWC group can go either way.
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Post by Scratch Tue 14 Jan 2014, 6:12 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Scratch wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:Optimism based on "gallant defeats" and getting smashed by Wales might be considered by some to be bordering on delusion don't you think?

As delusional as suggesting NZ is good at sailing after losing an 8 race advantage in the America's Cup  Doh 


The only reason England has never lost The Americas Cup is because theyve never won it.

England's sailing record is not at issue, though take note last year's winning tactician was a multi gold winning olympian Englander who clawed back an 8 match deficit.

GE suggested NZ were good at sailing, after the debacle I witnessed in SF Bay i beg to differ.

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Post by Scratch Tue 14 Jan 2014, 6:14 am

Anyway back to rugger

Biltong i think a Slam is unnecessary, a hard fought championship win in a very even year , 4 potential winners without doubt - would do.

But the next game v France is incredibly important. If they win i think they could kick on until the press hype derials the campaign as per usual

if they lose i reckon scotland might feel they have a sniff at home

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Post by rainbow-warrior Tue 14 Jan 2014, 6:52 am

Biltong wrote:I think if England wants to prove they are undoubtedly the best team in the NH then a grandslam is non negotiable, otherwise there will be some demons in the 2015 RWC.

Wales have won the last two encounters against England, Australia is 1/2 over their past two encounters.

This RWC group can go either way.

Wales have won the last 3 encounters.
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Post by Biltong Tue 14 Jan 2014, 7:19 am

Didn't check back that far, I was more concerned about most recent encounters.

The England team has changed significantly enough that I think it is the current crop of players that need to gain ascendancy over Oz and Wales if they want to move forward in the RWC
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Post by aucklandlaurie Tue 14 Jan 2014, 7:43 am

Scratch wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Scratch wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:Optimism based on "gallant defeats" and getting smashed by Wales might be considered by some to be bordering on delusion don't you think?

As delusional as suggesting NZ is good at sailing after losing an 8 race advantage in the America's Cup  Doh 


The only reason England has never lost The Americas Cup is because theyve never won it.

England's sailing record is not at issue, though take note last year's winning tactician was a multi gold winning olympian Englander who clawed back an 8 match deficit.GE suggested NZ were good at sailing, after the debacle I witnessed in SF Bay i beg to differ.


You write that in such a way as to imply that Ainslee was the sole winning tactician on Team USA, He was the sole Englishman though.

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Post by The Saint Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:23 am

It's nice to dream and all that, but I just get the feeling you will have to settle for another few moral victories in 2014.

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Post by Ozzy3213 Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:24 am

Pretty sure moral victories tend to be your domain Sainty!
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Post by The Saint Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:29 am

Not sure where this myth comes from Ozzy? Must be another English myth, just like the "England are the best in the world at rugby" myth, and my personal favourite "England can play running rugby." I do find it ironic though, that Wales fans were slated for so long for apparently claiming these moral victories, only for a bunch of England fans to go out and do just that (more than once too).

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Post by Ozzy3213 Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:34 am

Must be nice living in your world mate.  Laugh 
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Post by GunsGerms Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:35 am

Hi England fans. I am travelling to London for the Ireland v England game. If anyone has or knows where I might source some spare tickets for this game I will gladly buy them off you.
Thanks,
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Post by The Saint Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:38 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:Must be nice living in your world mate.   Laugh 

Poke at comments then leave an immature reply when asked to explain ones self. Pathetic behaviour from a mod if you ask me.


Last edited by The Saint on Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by GloriousEmpire Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:39 am

Scratch wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Scratch wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:Optimism based on "gallant defeats" and getting smashed by Wales might be considered by some to be bordering on delusion don't you think?

As delusional as suggesting NZ is good at sailing after losing an 8 race advantage in the America's Cup  Doh 


The only reason England has never lost The Americas Cup is because theyve never won it.

England's sailing record is not at issue, though take note last year's winning tactician was a multi gold winning olympian Englander who clawed back an 8 match deficit.

GE suggested NZ were good at sailing, after the debacle I witnessed in SF Bay i beg to differ.

The boat race was won on a feedback foiling system that allowed oracle racing to configure the boat pseudo-automatically by continually pressing a single button. It was arguably in contravention of the law established by the regatta committee when team NZ invented the foiling concept, which stipulated that control of the foils
Had to be manual. It's arguable whether pressing a button is a manual system, however that's how the committee ruled so we have to accept it.

Now. The guy responsible for putting the system in place was Russell Coutts, a controversial uncompromising kiwi maverick. His logic was that the cup was lost anyway due to team NZ's superior sailing and boat speed, so losing on the water or losing in the court room were largely equivalent. So they tried it, and got away with it. Nothing at all to do with Ben Ainslie, as was evident in his stuffing prior to the boat changes made by oracle.

Secondly, both boats, and their foiling systems were invented and built in New Zealand.

Ainslie was just another British plodder well below the pay grade where the cup was decided. Shame his own once proud nautical country don't have the nous or courage to put up a challenge isn't it?

Anyway, back to rugby...

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Post by Nachos Jones Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:46 am


I cant see England winning anything of real note while Farrell is at 10. I think it will be a very close tournament this year but I can see France winning it with no GS.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:53 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:...

Ainslie was just another British plodder well below the pay grade where the cup was decided. Shame his own once proud nautical country don't have the nous or courage to put up a challenge isn't it?

Anyway, back to rugby...

Considering Ainslie is 'just another British plodder' its a good thing for competitive sailing in the rest of the world that we cant find anyone better. He was just part of a big team for the AC but put him in a boat on his own and he plods faster than anyone

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Post by Ozzy3213 Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:57 am

The Saint wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Must be nice living in your world mate.   Laugh 

Poke at comments then leave an immature reply when asked to explain ones self. Pathetic behaviour from a mod if you ask me.

A few of points.

1. You've not asked me to explain anything, merely responded to my initial post by claiming that moral victories are definitely and England thing.
2. Even if you had asked me to explain myself, I am under no obligation to do so.
3. I am posting as a poster, not a mod, it would would have been in red had I been dealing with something as a moderator.
4. Lighten up chief. You had a 'poke' first about moral victories. If you don't want to be poked back, you know the solution.

 Very Happy 
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Post by Nachos Jones Tue 14 Jan 2014, 11:01 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:
The Saint wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Must be nice living in your world mate.   Laugh 

Poke at comments then leave an immature reply when asked to explain ones self. Pathetic behaviour from a mod if you ask me.

A few of points.

1. You've not asked me to explain anything, merely responded to my initial post by claiming that moral victories are definitely and England thing.
2. Even if you had asked me to explain myself, I am under no obligation to do so.
3. I am posting as a poster, not a mod, it would would have been in red had I been dealing with something as a moderator.
4. Lighten up chief.  You had a 'poke' first about moral victories.  If you don't want to be poked back, you know the solution.

 Very Happy 

And so it begins, good luck again to Notch and George come the 6N  Cool 

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Post by The Saint Tue 14 Jan 2014, 11:03 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:
The Saint wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Must be nice living in your world mate.   Laugh 

Poke at comments then leave an immature reply when asked to explain ones self. Pathetic behaviour from a mod if you ask me.

A few of points.

1. You've not asked me to explain anything, merely responded to my initial post by claiming that moral victories are definitely and England thing.
2. Even if you had asked me to explain myself, I am under no obligation to do so.
3. I am posting as a poster, not a mod, it would would have been in red had I been dealing with something as a moderator.
4. Lighten up chief.  You had a 'poke' first about moral victories.  If you don't want to be poked back, you know the solution.

 Very Happy 

Oh come on, you insinuated that the Welsh were big claimants of moral victories, you always do so! I asked you to point out where we had done? I wouldn't have thought we did; I mean after winning 'back-to-back' 6 Nations who would need to do that? Very Happy Joking around is cool, but it seemed like you were acting childish.

Anyway, my comments were directed at the OP in a light-hearted manner. I'm not taking it too seriously after last years thread.... Though please allow me to point out that had a welsh poster did this we would be seeing a barrage of posts slagging off Wales. Smile

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Post by GloriousEmpire Tue 14 Jan 2014, 11:10 am

lostinwales wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:...

Ainslie was just another British plodder well below the pay grade where the cup was decided. Shame his own once proud nautical country don't have the nous or courage to put up a challenge isn't it?

Anyway, back to rugby...

Considering Ainslie is 'just another British plodder' its a good thing for competitive sailing in the rest of the world that we cant find anyone better. He was just part of a big team for the AC but put him in a boat on his own and he plods faster than anyone

Well he's a decent sailor. But Americas cup regattas are about 5% sailing, 50% politics and 40% technology and 5% luck so i wouldn't overestimate his contribution as a mere tactician in the reserve on crew.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 14 Jan 2014, 11:11 am

The Saint wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
The Saint wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Must be nice living in your world mate.   Laugh 

Poke at comments then leave an immature reply when asked to explain ones self. Pathetic behaviour from a mod if you ask me.

A few of points.

1. You've not asked me to explain anything, merely responded to my initial post by claiming that moral victories are definitely and England thing.
2. Even if you had asked me to explain myself, I am under no obligation to do so.
3. I am posting as a poster, not a mod, it would would have been in red had I been dealing with something as a moderator.
4. Lighten up chief.  You had a 'poke' first about moral victories.  If you don't want to be poked back, you know the solution.

 Very Happy 

Oh come on, you insinuated that the Welsh were big claimants of moral victories, you always do so! I asked you to point out where we had done? I wouldn't have thought we did; I mean after winning 'back-to-back' 6 Nations who would need to do that? :DJoking around is cool, but it seemed like you were acting childish.

Anyway, my comments were directed at the OP in a light-hearted manner. I'm not taking it too seriously after last years thread.... Though please allow me to point out that had a welsh poster did this we would be seeing a barrage of posts slagging off Wales. Smile

https://www.606v2.com/t50932-wales-6-nations-champions-2014

Pretty mild really.

For all the sabre rattling coming from a few welsh posters I think its interesting that you dont see them doing the same on the Scottish and Irish 6N threads (and there isnt really any Fr or It thread)

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Post by Biltong Tue 14 Jan 2014, 12:23 pm

The Saint wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Must be nice living in your world mate.   Laugh 

Poke at comments then leave an immature reply when asked to explain ones self. Pathetic behaviour from a mod if you ask me.

Saint, I see that is your standard reply when a mod responds in a manner of which you don't approve. Being a mod does afford us the opportunity to also act as posters.
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Post by GloriousEmpire Tue 14 Jan 2014, 1:15 pm

Moral victory to Saint over the mods there.

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Post by Breadvan Tue 14 Jan 2014, 2:21 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:Moral victory to Saint over the mods there.

 Laugh Tbf to Saint. Moral victories, coat tailing and the ever popular 'de-valued' was more of WLG thing...


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Post by The Saint Tue 14 Jan 2014, 2:24 pm

Laugh Don't let Ozzy see that, he might get jealous and starting writing with red ink.

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Post by munkian Tue 14 Jan 2014, 3:22 pm

Shouldn't England just aim to win the thing first ? Pretty awful record since 2003
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Post by Breadvan Tue 14 Jan 2014, 3:49 pm

munkian wrote:Shouldn't England just aim to win the thing first ? Pretty awful record since 2003

Beating yous lot would be a start!  Wink 
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Post by munkian Tue 14 Jan 2014, 3:55 pm

Breadvan wrote:
munkian wrote:Shouldn't England just aim to win the thing first ? Pretty awful record since 2003

Beating yous lot would be a start!   Wink 


I was being diplomatic  Wink 
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Post by beshocked Tue 14 Jan 2014, 4:32 pm

Poor Wales get Alain Rolland in week 3 vs France. Enjoy! Whistle 

http://www.therugbyblog.com/six-nations-2014-referees-confirmed

Avoiding Walsh is also a good sign for England.

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Post by Scratch Tue 14 Jan 2014, 6:19 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Scratch wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Scratch wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:Optimism based on "gallant defeats" and getting smashed by Wales might be considered by some to be bordering on delusion don't you think?

As delusional as suggesting NZ is good at sailing after losing an 8 race advantage in the America's Cup  Doh 


The only reason England has never lost The Americas Cup is because theyve never won it.

England's sailing record is not at issue, though take note last year's winning tactician was a multi gold winning olympian Englander who clawed back an 8 match deficit.

GE suggested NZ were good at sailing, after the debacle I witnessed in SF Bay i beg to differ.

The boat race was won on a feedback foiling system that allowed oracle racing to configure the boat pseudo-automatically by continually pressing a single button. It was arguably in contravention of the law established by the regatta committee when team NZ invented the foiling concept, which stipulated that control of the foils
Had to be manual.  It's arguable whether pressing a button is a manual system, however that's how the committee ruled so we have to accept it.

Now. The guy responsible for putting the system in place was Russell Coutts, a controversial uncompromising kiwi maverick. His logic was that the cup was lost anyway due to team NZ's superior sailing and boat speed, so losing on the water or losing in the court room were largely equivalent. So they tried it, and got away with it. Nothing at all to do with Ben Ainslie, as was evident in his stuffing prior to the boat changes made by oracle.

Secondly, both boats, and their foiling systems were invented and built in New Zealand.

Ainslie was just another British plodder well below the pay grade where the cup was decided. Shame his own once proud nautical country don't have the nous or courage to put up a challenge isn't it?

Anyway, back to rugby...

What a surprise, losing NZ team alleges cheating…didn't know Wayne Barnes was also a sailing ref.

As for Sir Ben being a plodder, with 4 Gold Medals.

I guess that makes you a plonker

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Post by yappysnap Tue 14 Jan 2014, 7:31 pm

Oh how i've missed the 6N's threads...

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Post by The Saint Tue 14 Jan 2014, 11:28 pm

Scratch and GE are allowing things to spill over quite a lot lately. And I thought The Saint was bad.

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Post by Scratch Tue 14 Jan 2014, 11:33 pm

Saint

GE and I are merely having friendly exchange of views

While you seem to be interminably whining about Welsh posters being picked on, or whining about MODS not doing their jobs, or whining about other posters in general.

Simon Templar would turn in his grave.


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Post by GloriousEmpire Wed 15 Jan 2014, 2:03 am

I'm pretty sure Scratch is the grey ghost.

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Post by Scratch Wed 15 Jan 2014, 6:26 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'm pretty sure Scratch is the grey ghost.

False flag from the ghost himself

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Post by rainbow-warrior Wed 15 Jan 2014, 6:40 am

Biltong wrote:Didn't check back that far, I was more concerned about most recent encounters.

The England team has changed significantly enough that I think it is the current crop of players that need to gain ascendancy over Oz and Wales if they want to move forward in the RWC

Yeah 3 years is ancient history innit
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Post by Biltong Wed 15 Jan 2014, 6:45 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:
Biltong wrote:Didn't check back that far, I was more concerned about most recent encounters.

The England team has changed significantly enough that I think it is the current crop of players that need to gain ascendancy over Oz and Wales if they want to move forward in the RWC

Yeah 3 years is ancient history innit
I suppose it depends when you want to draw the line. In my view it is appropriate to draw the line when Lancaster took over. Wink
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Post by munkian Wed 15 Jan 2014, 8:48 am

Biltong wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
Biltong wrote:Didn't check back that far, I was more concerned about most recent encounters.

The England team has changed significantly enough that I think it is the current crop of players that need to gain ascendancy over Oz and Wales if they want to move forward in the RWC

Yeah 3 years is ancient history innit
I suppose it depends when you want to draw the line. In my view it is appropriate to draw the line when Lancaster took over. Wink

Very convenient... please keep championing England, they fluffed it last year under your patronage too  Very Happy 
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Post by Biltong Wed 15 Jan 2014, 10:56 am

munkian wrote:
Biltong wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
Biltong wrote:Didn't check back that far, I was more concerned about most recent encounters.

The England team has changed significantly enough that I think it is the current crop of players that need to gain ascendancy over Oz and Wales if they want to move forward in the RWC

Yeah 3 years is ancient history innit
I suppose it depends when you want to draw the line. In my view it is appropriate to draw the line when Lancaster took over. Wink

Very convenient...  please keep championing England, they fluffed it last year under your patronage too  Very Happy 
Who me?  Shocked 
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Post by munkian Wed 15 Jan 2014, 11:00 am

Carry on  Very Happy 
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Post by Biltong Wed 15 Jan 2014, 11:02 am

I am innocent, besides I am actually not championing them at all, I am challenging them to prove they can overcome the deficiencies against Australia and Wales.  Whistle 
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Post by munkian Wed 15 Jan 2014, 11:07 am

I thought it was Steve Walsh they needed to overcome ?
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Post by Biltong Wed 15 Jan 2014, 11:28 am

munkian wrote:I thought it was Steve Walsh they needed to overcome ?

Then I need to update my list of impossible tasks for teams, Wales has Alain Rolland, we had the retired Bruce Lawrence, our newest one is Romain Pointe, England has Welsh, France has Joubert, who am I missing?
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Post by munkian Wed 15 Jan 2014, 11:37 am

Welsh or Walsh ?  Very Happy 

EVERYONE has ALL Irish refs, ever.
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Post by nobbled Wed 15 Jan 2014, 11:41 am

It's going to be close I think. I can't actually see England, Wales, France or Ireland winning all their matches. "on their day" (sorry) Wales are probably the strongest, but not the most consistent performers.
England need to introduce the ball to the blokes with numbers higher than 10 on their shirts. They're thoroughly nice chaps and I'm sure would like to play too given the opportunity. The pack can win England most of their games, but not all.
France - who the hell knows.
Ireland - likewise!
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