WALES SQUAD 2014 RBS 6 NATIONS:

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WALES SQUAD 2014 RBS 6 NATIONS:

Forwards:
Paul James (Bath), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton Capt (Cardiff Blues), Toby Faletau (Dragons), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets)

Backs:
Rhodri Williams (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), James Hook (Perpignan), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues), Liam Williams (Scarlets

Jh,

Not wanting to get into argument there enough of those on there but R Jones has only just come back from injury so how you can say he's been better this season I don't know.

Hope its not bad injury though as think he's great asset to the squad, also I Evans been sent off against Leinster for stamping so could see few names added to squad over weekend.

No I mean through the whole season not just the past few weeks, he hasnt been out that long mind.
He has been ospreys best player in the Heineken cup for the ospreys. He had had a very good season in my view. Through the whole season, when fit he has been immense.

Didn't c the stamp but mccarthy looked in a bad state. A stamp on the face would be a long ban, especially with mccarthy going off due to it. Maybe jake ball will get the call up he deserves.

He's been out a fair bit of the season, Ball and Lewis Evans if both are out.

Well he has only missed 1 Heineken cup game (last week) and played quite a lot if rabo games. He Hasn't been out that much mind

Lewis deserves a call up, he said he might call a a few after the First game. He is unlucky not to get called up in the first place, thought shingler was lucky.

Shingler has played well enough TBH, not sure if he fits in with the balance that our back-row has though. Lewis Evans most certainly should have had a call-up, especially as Warburton hasn't played this season (and was gash in his last international). I can't say Webb doesn't deserve to be there, but Rees has been playing as well for a longer period. Let's face it, you get overlooked because of where you play.

I thought Ryan Jones had been injured a fair bit this season and also what games has he played well in the Heineken Cup? The one game I've seen him play in, he did not play well v Northampton and was clearly at fault when Manoa walked his try in (more or less).

The fact he has picked up another injury, highlights how stupid we are in forcing players back too soon, especially when there are other form options available. Even if his injury isn't too serious, he has to join a Wales camp where they aren't exactly wrapped in cotton wool next week. It's lunacy.

What is the extent of injuries to Jones and Hibbard…if Evans does get a ban as i expect we are probably decked without Davies, Evans, Jones, Hibbard, Sam etc

Scratch wrote:What is the extent of injuries to Jones and Hibbard…if Evans does get a ban as i expect we are probably decked without Davies, Evans, Jones, Hibbard, Sam etc

Scratch,

Lets take those 5 out of the equation and add Jenkins to the list we could still see a team of:

James
Owens
A Jones
AWJ
Charteris
Lydiate/Shingler
Faletau
Tipuric

Webb
Biggar

North
Roberts
Sc Williams
Cuthbert

Halfpenny

Centre might be bit awkward if Roberts is out with Hook our other option with experience there, North could be option we would all like to see.

I would expect some players added soon, possibly Ball and Lewis Evans, not sure what centres are out there or who our 4th choice hooker would be.

i think that team should be enough to beat Italy . they always have one good game in the six nations lets hope its not a fortnight Saturday

With all due respect to Italy that team should be more than good enough to beat Italy at home, we are only 1 player (JD) away from 1st choice back line in most peoples eyes and for me only 1 player (Hibbard) away from 1st choice pack so not overly worried at this stage.

The Welsh squad has developed nicely since the 2011 RWC, there is quite a bit of depth in positions.

Even with two first choice front rowers, possibly two second rows, maybe a top quality centre and backrow and we still have a good team.

Can't imagine Warburton not waltzing back into the starting team, especially as he's captain too. AWJ should have got the armband. How him and the other Jones boys have stayed loyal to the Ospreys set-up I'll never know, got to admire it still.

Might need to find a replacement for Ian Evans who may miss the 6Nations after last nights game.

IronMike wrote:Might need to find a replacement for Ian Evans who may miss the 6Nations after last nights game.

Well there's Charteris (who I would start anyway) and Coombs in the squad but I think it would be great to see Jake Ball called up if need be.

The Saint wrote:Can't imagine Warburton not waltzing back into the starting team, especially as he's captain too. AWJ should have got the armband. How him and the other Jones boys have stayed loyal to the Ospreys set-up I'll never know, got to admire it still.

I have a feeling that he may miss the Italy game but with Lydiate seemingly off form (I would still start him) at the moment we could see Warbs and Tips at 6 & 7 again.

These novelty call-ups are really going to Bevington's head.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25742051

By and large same old   

Players getting in who aren't on form, players getting in who are injured, players getting in who played like sh!t in the autumn.

All we need now is the same drab, predictable, blunt-edged attacking patterns and the same painful lack of rigor from game to game.

Or have the players got it in them to excel themselves and play with even less co-ordination and cohesion than last time?

The Saint wrote:These novelty call-ups are really going to Bevington's head.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25742051

I know, when I first read this I though oh my god know, then I realised it was his interview and not an advanced team release.

Knowsit17 wrote:By and large same old   

Players getting in who aren't on form, players getting in who are injured, players getting in who played like sh!t in the autumn.

All we need now is the same drab, predictable, blunt-edged attacking patterns and the same painful lack of rigor from game to game.

Or have the players got it in them to excel themselves and play with even less co-ordination and cohesion than last time?

knowsit,

I agree in some way but its unfortunate that the players who are seemingly out of form (reports differ on Lydiate) or just returning from injury then their replacements are injured as well.

Lydiate - possibly lacking form, Ryan Jones injured lacking game time himself.

Roberts - on recovery leg, Willimas and Allen both injured.

My point is that Gatland shouldn't be so quick to rush the injured or recently recovered straight back into the fray. How often in the past have Wales benefited from leaning on names with questionable fitness? So often do the coaches drop players who aren't even guaranteed to be fit or on form in time back in at the deep end and so irritably often has it blown back in their faces. Calls for Warbs, Jenkins and Davies, all of whom won't now have the chance for adequate training and preparation, just makes no sense whatsoever for me.

Worse still is the continued presence of players whom I'm just not convinced need do very much to earn a call-up. Lydiate was lacklustre in the autumn and could hardly be setting the world alight in a disjointed Racing side. Still, what were the odds he wouldn't get called up barring months of injury? What are the odds he won't now start most of Wales' games?

Either that amounts to a statement of the glaring lack of depth to choose from or complete favouritism on Gatland's part. If the latter, then that just sets back a lot of what Gatland has helped Wales to achieve. We're relapsing worryingly into a pick-on-rep culture.

Knowsit17 wrote:My point is that Gatland shouldn't be so quick to rush the injured or recently recovered straight back into the fray. How often in the past have Wales benefited from leaning on names with questionable fitness? So often do the coaches drop players who aren't even guaranteed to be fit or on form in time back in at the deep end and so irritably often has it blown back in their faces. Calls for Warbs, Jenkins and Davies, all of whom won't now have the chance for adequate training and preparation, just makes no sense whatsoever for me.

Worse still is the continued presence of players whom I'm just not convinced need do very much to earn a call-up. Lydiate was lacklustre in the autumn and could hardly be setting the world alight in a disjointed Racing side. Still, what were the odds he wouldn't get called up barring months of injury? What are the odds he won't now start most of Wales' games?

Either that amounts to a statement of the glaring lack of depth to choose from or complete favouritism on Gatland's part. If the latter, then that just sets back a lot of what Gatland has helped Wales to achieve. We're relapsing worryingly into a pick-on-rep culture.

I think i had a discussion with someone the other day about this. You are very right in saying that it is quite a big risk in by throwing the players straight back into the mold and it does proves to be a mistake in some situations. However, a lot of the time it can be seen as a posotive.
I will use Healey last night as the best example, he was was supposed to be out for 8 weeks, passes fit after 4 and started his first game back last night vs the Ospreys; well i just thought he looked hungry, eager, explosive and then was MOM (deservedly). I think a big factor of it is the mind over matter, some players might not feel too confident coming back in but others (like Healy) are hungry to just play. He was great in an interview after the game, he said he gets so frustrated on the side line and with the physio is drives him mad; it just makes him want to play even more.

You're right insofar as there have been exceptions and that it hasn't proven to be a bad idea across every case. I'm just not at all comfortable with it being a regular thing, which it has become during the last couple of seasons under Gatland. Realistically, a player returning from a long lay-off is more likely to be rusty than to just settle straight back into the routine. Calling up Davies in particular, who by the time of his return will not have played in at least 3 months, stands out as a shocker. And it happens selection after selection. On average, it would be now be considered irregular for the selectors to pick a fresh-faced, completely fit squad as they've developed a habit of frequently dipping into the pool of injuries or even, as I said, totally relying on unfit players in vital roles and positions. Such is demonstrated in the fact we currently have a designated skipper who has not played since the autumn. To summarise, I just can't bring myself to view consistent partial reliance on injured or semi-fit players as a safe logic or healthy ethos going forward.

Knowsit17 wrote:You're right insofar as there have been exceptions and that it hasn't proven to be a bad idea across every case. I'm just not at all comfortable with it being a regular thing, which it has become during the last couple of seasons under Gatland. Realistically, a player returning from a long lay-off is more likely to be rusty than to just settle straight back into the routine. Calling up Davies in particular, who by the time of his return will not have played in at least 3 months, stands out as a shocker. And it happens selection after selection. On average, it would be now be considered irregular for the selectors to pick a fresh-faced, completely fit squad as they've developed a habit of frequently dipping into the pool of injuries or even, as I said, totally relying on unfit players in vital roles and positions. Such is demonstrated in the fact we currently have a designated skipper who has not played since the autumn. To summarise, I just can't bring myself to view consistent partial reliance on injured or semi-fit players as a safe logic or healthy ethos going forward.

Yes very true I guess. I mean bringing in Sam and John straight away might not be the best idea, Sam should have to work his way back in and not automatically go straight in as soon as he is fit. The only thing with John is that we might not have an option, we are one injury away from another center crisis.
Scott Johnson said that Kelly Brown (captain of Scotland) isn't guaranteed a staring place, I think Gatland should say/do the same; it wouldn't be fair on Tipuric who has been great through out the season.

Jhamer25 wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:You're right insofar as there have been exceptions and that it hasn't proven to be a bad idea across every case. I'm just not at all comfortable with it being a regular thing, which it has become during the last couple of seasons under Gatland. Realistically, a player returning from a long lay-off is more likely to be rusty than to just settle straight back into the routine. Calling up Davies in particular, who by the time of his return will not have played in at least 3 months, stands out as a shocker. And it happens selection after selection. On average, it would be now be considered irregular for the selectors to pick a fresh-faced, completely fit squad as they've developed a habit of frequently dipping into the pool of injuries or even, as I said, totally relying on unfit players in vital roles and positions. Such is demonstrated in the fact we currently have a designated skipper who has not played since the autumn. To summarise, I just can't bring myself to view consistent partial reliance on injured or semi-fit players as a safe logic or healthy ethos going forward.

Yes very true I guess. I mean bringing in Sam and John straight away might not be the best idea, Sam should have to work his way back in  and not automatically go straight in as soon as he is fit. The only thing with John is that we might not have an option, we are one injury away from another center crisis.
Scott Johnson said that Kelly Brown (captain of Scotland) isn't guaranteed a staring place, I think Gatland should say/do the same; it wouldn't be fair on Tipuric who has been great through out the season.

Can't help but agree 100%

Similar with Robshaw, wasn't guaranteed the captaincy in the autumn or for now. Made to earn it on both occasions. Complete contrasting approaches to selection.

You and others may remember, in the early days of a Gatland-run Wales, one of the main collective themes was that no player was guaranteed a place. That policy seems to have soured or evaporated at some stage since which is an almighty shame. Evidence would suggest that type of team culture yields better performances all round as a result of players knowing they can't hold down a place without consistently showing their worth.

I wouldn't rush Davies or Warburton back, I would give North some gametime at centre and well we have Tipuric at 7 so no loss there.

As said the reports of Lydiates form varies he was, by all accounts (stats wise) head and shoulders above the rest when they played Scarlets at PYS and like said if not him then who do we pick.

R Jones - Himself injured and lacking gametime
Coombs - Could do a job there but possibly be in 2nd row with Evans getting likely ban.
Shingler - Well if not Lydiate then he would be my choice out of whose in the squad.

Bed you say Shingler has he played for Wales after he was took off after the first half against Ireland last year was not selected for the autumn internationals and was asking a Scarlets fan about him and he said his form has not been good he has come off the bench more often than not this year and that Turnbull has kept him out .Maybe the Scalets fans on here can say if this is so

Knowsit

Gatland like most coaches are never wrong (in their view) and will rarely admit to it. He is a great coach don't get me wrong but he must know when he made mistake in the past and learn from it. The southern internationals are a clear example of Gatland not knowing when his game plan isn't working. He must pick player who are in form. So you couldn't be more right in saying that his his policy of picking players on form is non existent. He has a favored players at the core of his team and he will do everything in his power to make sure they do play.
There are players who should be in the team players who should start but it won't change.
Sam Warburton, Dan Lydiate and Mike Phillips will all start when fit, no matter how well Tipuric or Webb have been playing. I hope i'm wrong but i can't see it changing either.

Irnbrew
To me Turnball has been better than Shingler this season, Shingler was quit at the start of the season and then got injured. Turnballl had his chance and he took and has been playing really well since. The only reason I would pick Shingler ahead of Turnball (and understand why Gatland has chosen him ahead of Turnball) for the internationals is because Shingler is faultless at the line out, he is phenomenal and very reliable in the air.

Turnbull and McCusker for that matter shouldn't be anywhere near any Welsh side, I have never seen what they offered in the first place.

Shingler is that added lineout option that the others don't give us and its harsh to judge him on that irst 40 last year as they were all a pile of ....

I would prob agree Turnbull has been a more complete blindside than Shingler this eason , and more of a fit for team Wales back row balance, but Shingler does have the lineout and athletic running over him.

SS,

What happened to McCusker, I remember a few seasons back we were all really excited about him and Lydiate really battling it out for the No6 shirt but it never materialised.

Knowsit17 wrote:You're right insofar as there have been exceptions and that it hasn't proven to be a bad idea across every case. I'm just not at all comfortable with it being a regular thing, which it has become during the last couple of seasons under Gatland. Realistically, a player returning from a long lay-off is more likely to be rusty than to just settle straight back into the routine. Calling up Davies in particular, who by the time of his return will not have played in at least 3 months, stands out as a shocker. And it happens selection after selection. On average, it would be now be considered irregular for the selectors to pick a fresh-faced, completely fit squad as they've developed a habit of frequently dipping into the pool of injuries or even, as I said, totally relying on unfit players in vital roles and positions. Such is demonstrated in the fact we currently have a designated skipper who has not played since the autumn. To summarise, I just can't bring myself to view consistent partial reliance on injured or semi-fit players as a safe logic or healthy ethos going forward.

England was doing just this. Before Stuart Lancaster took charge. Picking players that are ( well knownh, house hold names) rather than picking players that are truly fit and on form. Just pick the players that people, fans, know Injurie or no injurie it does not matter. Pick them any way.

We have seen tim and time again that players who have been in poor form for their Region have stepped us once in the Welsh set up so you can see the thinking behind it to a degree.

Also as I said before it seems that the players who are out of form it is unfortunate that their replacements are injured as well.

So do you play someone who is out of form or chuck in a 3/4 choice player, I know we had to in the AIs but thats becasue again players ahead of them were injured.

I think John Barcley deserves a call up after today   

Though Ball was awesome again mashing people about and Rhys looks in good form. I would stick with Bigger but it's nice to have that challenge.

Jh,

Thought Priestland looked poor in patches rather agree on Ball though and with Evans likely to be banned (when's the hearing) it would be a good move to call him up.

Bedford, Gog got injured just after breaking onto the scene, bad timing with the Scarlets losing Morgan meaning he got shuffled to eight etc.

Ball was good again today, seems to have control of his aggression noe. Unlike Evans, who will miss months IMO, especially as his ban for ending Harry Ellis' career means there shouldn't be any leniency.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Jh,

Thought Priestland looked poor in patches rather agree on Ball though and with Evans likely to be banned (when's the hearing) it would be a good move to call him up.

Really i thought he done close to nothing wrong (apart form those two kicks). Solid in defense, great in attack and his kicking game as much better than it usually is. He put some good high balls to chase and put them under pressure.

I must admit that one thing he does way better than Biggar is he plays the game a lot flatter and when it comes off it suits our gameplan with Roberts far better.

I don't have problem with either starting to be honest both have their faults and both have their good points for me though at the moment Biggar just edges it but not by much.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I must admit that one thing he does way better than Biggar is he plays the game a lot flatter and when it comes off it suits our gameplan with Roberts far better.

I don't have problem with either starting to be honest both have their faults and both have their good points for me though at the moment Biggar just edges it but not by much.

#

No i do agree, i think Rhys can come under pressure quite easy. Biggar is the safer option

Good news and bad news

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/ryan-jones-suffers-six-nations-6530783

Ryan Jones has been released by the welsh cap due to a hamstring injury which could rule him out of the Six nations

But three players have been called up to train with the camp which include James King, Sam Parry but more importantly Jake Ball

A big loss for Wales with Ryan Jones out
Sam Parry must be a temporary call up due to Hibbard leaving the field vs Leinster (I hope he is ok though)
James King must be the replacement for Ryan which makes no sense what so ever. There are a lot more players e.g. Lewis Evans or Josh Turnball who deserve a call up
Lastly Jake Ball who must be the replacement for Ian Evans, couldn't be happier and i hope he stay with the camp through the Six Nations. No one else more deserving. Hope he gets a chance to shine for Gatland.

Ok some may look at this as Dragons bias but WTF has Lewis Evans got to do to get a call up.

Good call on Jake Ball though, any idea when Evans' hearing is?

Why is Emyr Phillips and Sam Parry ahead of Kristian Dacey? Is he a bad scrummager or am I missing something?

You are right bedford, it's not on. I don;t see King as an international lock or flanker really. He isn't physical enough or big enough to cut it at lock and there are better 6's playing at the regions. His hearing is this week either tomorrow or wednesday

IronMike
I would say Emyr and Kristian are on par at the moment but I think Kristian has more potential. But isn't he injured at the moment anyway. It might be a temporary thing as we haven't heard any bad news on Hibbard yet.

Bedford, Lewis Evans has only him self to blame, if he wants to play for Wales he either needs to be in his breakthrough season, or playing elsewhere. Its pretty pathetic we call up unproven youngsters more often than we call up hard grafting players who have been around for a while.

So our injuries at the moment and ones out or likely to be out of 1st game (correct me if wrong) are:

Jenkins
Hibbard
Warburton
R Jones
Evans (not injured but very very likely to be out)
JD
Owens (is he injured not sure)

Roberts played on weekend so will be lacking game time but at least he's fit, Lydiate fit but seems to be (varying reports) off form.

So worst case scenario against Italy we could see:

James
Owens (Phillips if Owens out)
A Jones
AWJ
Charteris
Lydiate
Faletau
Tipuric

Webb
Biggar

North
Roberts
Sc Williams
Cuthbert

Halfpenny

Bevington, Phillips (Parry if Owen out), Lee, Ball, Coombs, Phillips, Hook, Li Williams

No8 cover would be a worry and possibly 2 in-experienced hookers.

It is nonsense calling up King. We aren't short of locks, especially with the correct call of adding Ball to the squad. Should be Lewis Evans (particularly with doubts over Warburton). I can see the reasoning though, in that he's been around the squad fairly recently (it's the same reason why Dacey isn't selected, in that Parry has trained with the squad before), but feel it's a daft decision.

As I thought though, it wasn't a wise move calling up Ryan Jones in the first place. I'm not convinced by his fitness nowadays and as I said, I don't think two weeks in Team Wales camp would've helped him.

Why King though, don't see him as anything special. Maybe in a couple years, yes. Also, he's not big enough for 2nd row.

I doubt Ryan Jones will be the first, there'll be a few others to join soon enough, unfortunately.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Jh,

Thought Priestland looked poor in patches rather agree on Ball though and with Evans likely to be banned (when's the hearing) it would be a good move to call him up.

For a fly-half I thought he had an incredibly poor game, and for me he is No.3 in the pecking order on that showing against Quins alone.

Ken Owens was on the bench for Scarlets vs Harlequins but pulled out before the game. He can;t be far off from fitness otherwise he wouldn't have been chosen. Looks like i'm not the only one who has the same view on James King, i just don;t see what they see i so special in him (not as a lock anyway).

There has been nothing to say that Hibbard won;t be available or the duration of his injury
With the bad news of Matthew rees we need to start bringing through an d giving experience to a third hooker anyway. England have to senior Hookers, both who are more than capable of making an impact n the big stage. They have started to give Rob Webber some game time and was captain during the Argentinian tour. We need to start do develop a third hooker whether that is Emy, Kristian or Sam. I say this because I believe hookers are more likely to get inured and it's a positions where nay team need depth in. If Ken or Hibbard are out for the first test i would like to see Emyr get a chance either to start (if both are injured) or come on after 50 minutes if he is on the bench.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford, Lewis Evans has only him self to blame, if he wants to play for Wales he either needs to be in his breakthrough season, or playing elsewhere.  Its pretty pathetic we call up unproven youngsters more often than we call up hard grafting players who have been around for a while.

Surely Andrew Coombs was a "hard grafting players who have been around for a while"...?

How is it Lewis Evans fault ? He's been very solid this season and was previously picked for the Welsh training sqaud but got injured. Its jobs for the boys, as always