Simple Question...

First topic message reminder :

If Jones had retired at 35 would he be regarded as the greatest ever?

No, Jones didn't get enough big fights. He suffered from Boxing's awful matchmaking politics of the 90's and 2000's.

IMO ability wise he's the best ever.

Dear me, Chris, I never said Jones had a chin of glass and you should be ashamed of yourself for reading the name Amir Khan and coming the conclusion "glass jaw" tsk tsk tsk and a slap on the wrist for you sir.

Khan showed that he can withstand a few heavy shots (although I think Maidana would have wiped him out if he'd had a bit more accuracy). However, there's a vulnerability with Khan which means that if he doesn't see the shot coming and gird his loins/chin, he's generally in trouble and I think Jones had a similar issue therefore ensured that he was rarely within punching range for us to see this weakness until it was unavoidable

Strongback wrote:

3fingers wrote:Not sure about the serious steroid abuser allegations. As far as I'm aware he tested postive for a steroid which was contained in over the counter sports supplements....once.

Regarding Roys standing in 50 years, I see a few scenarios:

1) writers and fans will be at odds over his rating. Writers will favour the traditional (predictable) greats (robinson, moore etc), while fans will favour jones simply due to the extended highlight reell compared to the aforementioned

2) In the next 50 years many boxers will be caught using. If testing becomes more stringent, positive test results will become tedious. And doubts will be present about those who weren't caught using during the period of lax testing (always - till - present). This will favour jones' rating as doubts and speculation over others will allow him to be rated alongside them.

Look into the gains in muscle weight Jones Jr made in very short periods of time and then read the discussion that falls out of that.

.......Never known any poster make so many unsubstantiated allegations about Boxers and other posters.......

"Mayweather has a big head so he's on HGH"........."Look at Jones muscle gains hint hint"........."Hearn this" "Haye that".......Almost all of it hearsay or conjecture......

You want to be careful Mate a lot of your stuff is actionable and although we know you are a complete idiot people you are popping at may not!!

Now I don't mark Manny down over hearsay........Top 20 for me !!.......and likewise Jones jr, Mayweather, Duran or anyone else shouldn't be marked down for anything not proven...............

Leave it out.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

3fingers wrote:Not sure about the serious steroid abuser allegations. As far as I'm aware he tested postive for a steroid which was contained in over the counter sports supplements....once.

Regarding Roys standing in 50 years, I see a few scenarios:

1) writers and fans will be at odds over his rating. Writers will favour the traditional (predictable) greats (robinson, moore etc), while fans will favour jones simply due to the extended highlight reell compared to the aforementioned

2) In the next 50 years many boxers will be caught using. If testing becomes more stringent, positive test results will become tedious. And doubts will be present about those who weren't caught using during the period of lax testing (always - till - present). This will favour jones' rating as doubts and speculation over others will allow him to be rated alongside them.

Look into the gains in muscle weight Jones Jr made in very short periods of time and then read the discussion that falls out of that.

.......Never known any poster make so many unsubstantiated allegations about Boxers and other posters.......

"Mayweather has a big head so he's on HGH"........."Look at Jones muscle gains hint hint"........."Hearn this"  "Haye that".......Almost all of it hearsay or conjecture......

You want to be careful Mate a lot of your stuff is actionable and although we know you are a complete idiot people you are popping at may not!!

Now I don't mark Manny down over hearsay........Top 20 for me !!.......and likewise Jones jr, Mayweather, Duran or anyone else shouldn't be marked down for anything not proven...............

Leave it out.

You need to be careful or I'll have you up on libel for defamation of character.

For the record Roy Jones Jr tested positive for elevated levels of testosterone far outside the range a man can produce naturally.


Your post is a bit nastier than your usual efforts as it was written in an attempt to get me in trouble with the owners of this site.

I can refer you to many discussion around the net on Floyd Mayweathers head size.

You are always telling posters what they are thinking....

Mate you aren't CRACKER..............Although you are crackers,.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You are always telling posters what they are thinking....

Mate you aren't CRACKER..............Although you are crackers,.

I don't tell anybody what they think.  With you, your posts are as transparent as a pane of glass. No need for Colombo or any other American Crappola.

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You are always telling posters what they are thinking....

Mate you aren't CRACKER..............Although you are crackers,.

I don't tell anybody what they think.

You did two posts ago.......Or has that slipped your mind as well as.........never writing any Boxnation articles..........Saying Dorian didn't do smith machine squats....

Before telling people what they think.......Try remembering what you've been thinking..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You are always telling posters what they are thinking....

Mate you aren't CRACKER..............Although you are crackers,.

I don't tell anybody what they think.

You did two posts ago.......Or has that slipped your mind as well as.........never writing any Boxnation articles..........Saying Dorian didn't do smith machine squats....

Before telling people what they think.......Try remembering what you've been thinking..

Good idea. Might tip him over the edge into a full on breakdown. Might take Steffan with him

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You are always telling posters what they are thinking....

Mate you aren't CRACKER..............Although you are crackers,.

I don't tell anybody what they think.

You did two posts ago.......Or has that slipped your mind as well as.........never writing any Boxnation articles..........Saying Dorian didn't do smith machine squats....

Before telling people what they think.......Try remembering what you've been thinking..

You clearly attempted to demonstrate I was being libelous on this site.  That is obvious, no need for interpretation of what you were thinking.

Missing the obvious?...Are you getting soft in the head or are you really this thick.

You advocated doing squats on a smith machine and everybody on the weight lifting boarded scorned you because it is a joint wrecker. Doing a big multi joint compound exercise on the smith machine is nuts because of the restricted range of lateral movement.   Dorian did hack squats on a smith machine because he had damaged his hip girdle doing heavy poundage on the free squat.


The Box Nation article was posting that there was a free sign up offer that could save people a few quid.


I was right about Haye, I am being proven right about Hearn (which are not far from your views BTW), Naz is pretty much universally disliked by the public and Floyd is apparently fighting Khan next.  They weren't difficult predictions even if you didn't accept them.

You did observe on another thread ..did you not ...about the size of Mayweather's head and mentioned Growth hormone.......

You implied Jones jr got muscled so quickly it couldn't be natural...

"Manny's head hasn't increased in size the way Mayweather's has"

"The test might also tell us what's causing Floyd's rapidly increasing head size"

"Serious vascularity on Sturm always makes me wonder ? "

Now If you are being sensitive then..........I'll retract my comments..........

However I'll let others make up their own minds as to any supposed comments I've aimed at you..and their validity.........

Or you can tell me as you seem to know what everybody else thinks...

You are a strange one..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You did observe on another thread ..did you not ...about the size of Mayweather's head and mentioned Growth hormone.......

You implied Jones jr got muscled so quickly it couldn't be natural...

Now If you are being sensitive then..........I'll retract my comments..........

However I'll let others make up their own minds as to any supposed comments I've aimed at you..and their validity.........

Or you can tell me as you seem to know what everybody else thinks...

You are a strange one..

I said Jones tested positive for having an unnaturally high testosterone level meaning he was using illegal PED's. That a fact not something I made up or implied.

I have said Floyd's head has increased in size as have a lot of other people. Do I on a personal level believe this could be linked to PED's use then I would say yes. You do know the reported reason for Floyd dropping his legal challenge against Manny for deformation I take it?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

"Manny's head hasn't increased in size the way Mayweather's has"

"The test might also tell us what's causing Floyd's rapidly increasing head size"

"Serious vascularity on Sturm always makes me wonder ? .

Now what are you implying with these quotes ???????????????

Jones didn't fail his test for that at all, it was for androstenedione, the same substance his opponent Hall failed a test for. Both had started Ripped fuel I believe which contained the substance but didn't disclose it did, only the IBF had it on their banned list.

Thing is they are just three quotes I routinely picked up on his history.........After looking for two minutes !!

and the guy is moaning I've got him all wrong.........

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You did observe on another thread ..did you not ...about the size of Mayweather's head and mentioned Growth hormone.......

You implied Jones jr got muscled so quickly it couldn't be natural...

Now If you are being sensitive then..........I'll retract my comments..........

However I'll let others make up their own minds as to any supposed comments I've aimed at you..and their validity.........

Or you can tell me as you seem to know what everybody else thinks...

You are a strange one..

I said Jones tested positive for having an unnaturally high testosterone level meaning he was using illegal PED's.  That a fact not something I made up or implied.

I have said Floyd's head has increased in size as have a lot of other people.  Do I on a personal level believe this could be linked to PED's use then I would say yes.  You do know the reported reason for Floyd dropping his legal challenge against Manny for deformation I take it?

That's a funny mistake considering Floyd's alleged increased head size.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

"Manny's head hasn't increased in size the way Mayweather's has"

"The test might also tell us what's causing Floyd's rapidly increasing head size"

"Serious vascularity on Sturm always makes me wonder ? .

Now what are you implying with these quotes ???????????????

I am speculating and giving my opinion that they might be using PED's. There is a lot of discussion about PED's in boxing in case you haven't noticed. Not surprising given hardly a month goes by without a fighter testing positive for PED's. Of course some of the biggest names in the sport being involved in the BALCO scandal also fuels the debate.

Jones was a huge talent and i think the best fighter since Ray Leonard for me he was a much better fighter at his best than Floyd or Manny will ever be. Not quite up there with the likes of Robinson, Armstrong, Leonard, Ali, Greb but certainly can be mentioned in any company and not be out of place.

Here's an article from Boxing International in relation to RRJ's positive test for PED's.



Roy Jones Did Test Positive, Steroids

By Scoop Malinowski (Story was originally posted in 2003.)

Richard Hall’s astonishing claims – that Roy Jones, possibly the greatest fighter in ring history – tested positive for steroids after their May 2000 fight, have now been confirmed today by Jacob Hall, the Commissioner of Indiana Boxing.

Here is our exclusive interview.

Boxinginsider.com: Did Roy Jones test positive after his fight against Richard Hall?

Jacob Hall: “Both of them did. Roy Jones tested positive for steroids. He was five or six times over an acceptable level. Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level. He didn’t mention that in his interview (the now infamous interview of July 18 with Bragging Rights Corner and Doghouse Boxing).

A letter was sent to both (Jones and Hall). The Indiana Boxing Commission followed up – I talked to Jones’ people and said we were going to declare the fight a no-contest, suspend and fine him. And at that time, Jones’ attorney Fred Levin and the Indiana Attorney General’s office got involved.

Indiana has no law on drug testing as probably the majority of the states in the U.S. do not. The drug testing company sent us the results. Most states that don’t have drug testing laws, the test results go back to the sanctioning bodies. I think most people are surprised at that. What do the sanctioning bodies do when they get positive test results? Suspend? Fine? They didn’t in this case. And there’s no way you’re going to know about it.

Through his attorney, Jones admitted he had been taking an over-the-counter product called Ripped Fuel. That’s not illegal but it is an anabolic steroid according to the IBF and other other sanctioning bodies.

So he did test positive. He did take Ripped Fuel.

Whether that’s what he took or not we don’t know, but he did test positive and admitted to taking a steroid.

The IBF chose to do nothing. They wanted a second test to be done. But why take a second test when he failed the first one and admitted to taking a steroid? That’s where it ended.

No action was taken. Nobody did anything.

We couldn’t take action (because there is no drug testing law in the state of Indiana) but what we agreed to was before his next two fights, Roy Jones would submit the results to more drug tests to Indiana. One fight was in Louisiana and those results were negative. And the other was in California, and those results were negative.

What surprised me about this is that the IBF chose not to do anything. And I have documents…what I’m saying, I can back-up. So I’m not concerned with that.

Roy Jones’ people were very cooperative and very easy to work with to reach a settlement. Also, I did tell Roy Jones that there are some amateur boxing clubs here in Indiana and he did send a check in the amount of $250 for the Indianapolis PAL.”

Boxinginsider.com: How many people have called you since the Richard Hall interview?

Jacob Hall: “Brad Jacobs, now an advisor for Jones, and a reporter from some paper in France, and that was it. Brad Jacobs called to verify if the facts were true about Roy failing the test. He wasn’t involved with Roy Jones back in 2000. He just wanted to know what the facts were, like you.”

Boxinginsider.com: Wow, that’s hard to believe – that only one media outlet from France has called you about this.

Jacob Hall: “All I saw on any of the websites was that Murad Muhammad said Roy Jones tested positive for take some (nasal decongestant). But that was innaccurate. This was not a nasal decongestant.”

Boxinginsider.com: Does the state of Nevada have a law on drug testing?

Jacob Hall: “Yes. Most states do not. Nevada does have drug testing. I think most people are surprised at that…they think all boxers are tested. For some time I’ve tried to get a law passed similar to Nevada but we haven’t got that done yet. If the sanctioning bodies choose not to take action, there isn’t a lot the state commissions can do. That’s why I’m in favor of a Federal Commission like the one Senator John McCain is proposing.”
—-

hogey wrote:Jones was a huge talent and i think the best fighter since Ray Leonard for me he was a much better fighter at his best than Floyd or Manny will ever be. Not quite up there with the likes of Robinson, Armstrong, Leonard, Ali, Greb but certainly can be mentioned in any company and not be out of place.

Certainly made it look easy didn't he..........First boxer to win the Val barker and get silver .......too...

Androstenedione or Andro as it is better known is the testosterone precursor used by Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and other baseball players to increase their strength and recovery allowing them to beat long standing baseball home run records. Andro and its variants has become notorious in baseball, in fact I seem to remember that the chemist behind "The Clear" used by Marion Jones and other track stars also had a big hand to play in baseballs prohormone controversy.

Strongback wrote:Androstenedione or Andro as it is better known is the testosterone precursor used by Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and other baseball players to increase their strength and recovery allowing them to beat long standing baseball home run records.  Andro and its variants has become notorious in baseball, in fact I seem to remember that the chemist behind "The Clear" used by Marion Jones and other track stars also had a big hand to play in baseballs prohormone controversy.

What are you going on about...

You are aware that Strongy that under WBC, WBA and every boxing commissions rules that Jones didn't do anything wrong, it was only newly added to the IBF banned list at the time.

Strongback wrote:Androstenedione or Andro as it is better known is the testosterone precursor used by Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and other baseball players to increase their strength and recovery allowing them to beat long standing baseball home run records.  Andro and its variants has become notorious in baseball, in fact I seem to remember that the chemist behind "The Clear" used by Marion Jones and other track stars also had a big hand to play in baseballs prohormone controversy.

...from when i read it last, two minutes ago on wikipedia!   

3fingers wrote:

Strongback wrote:Androstenedione or Andro as it is better known is the testosterone precursor used by Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and other baseball players to increase their strength and recovery allowing them to beat long standing baseball home run records.  Andro and its variants has become notorious in baseball, in fact I seem to remember that the chemist behind "The Clear" used by Marion Jones and other track stars also had a big hand to play in baseballs prohormone controversy.

...from when i read it last, two minutes ago on wikipedia!   

Strongy does have his positive side.......He's a great cure for insomnia..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

3fingers wrote:

Strongback wrote:Androstenedione or Andro as it is better known is the testosterone precursor used by Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and other baseball players to increase their strength and recovery allowing them to beat long standing baseball home run records.  Andro and its variants has become notorious in baseball, in fact I seem to remember that the chemist behind "The Clear" used by Marion Jones and other track stars also had a big hand to play in baseballs prohormone controversy.

...from when i read it last, two minutes ago on wikipedia!   

Strongy does have his positive side.......He's a great cure for insomnia..

Go demonstrate.

All you do is follow me about on here......

It's a compliment I guess.......Just wish it was somebody who wasn't pointless..

Still can't have everything..

3fingers wrote:

Strongback wrote:Androstenedione or Andro as it is better known is the testosterone precursor used by Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and other baseball players to increase their strength and recovery allowing them to beat long standing baseball home run records.  Andro and its variants has become notorious in baseball, in fact I seem to remember that the chemist behind "The Clear" used by Marion Jones and other track stars also had a big hand to play in baseballs prohormone controversy.

...from when i read it last, two minutes ago on wikipedia!   

I knew who Patrick Arnold was long before this discussion. Every bodybuilder knows who Dan Duchaine is, he's mythical at this stage, Arnold was a friend/associate of Duchaines. How Duchaine become America's biggest steroid dealer is an interesting story one which I have followed for many years.

Andro was banned by the IBF when Jones Jr tested positive for it. It was also banned by the IOC and other sportig bodies at the time of this Jones fight.

Sturm's vascularity ???..............

Louis had a zit on his neck apparently........Looked like an overdose of Sustanon..........Even though it wasn't used back then..

I'm going to move him down my heavyweight list...

Because who needs proof.........

no need to explain strongy, i was just teasing.

Strongback wrote:Andro was banned by the IBF when Jones Jr tested positive for it.  It was also banned by the IOC and other sportig bodies at the time of this Jones fight.

Aside from the IBF none of the others are of any relevance to boxing Strongy, as far as 75% of the governing bodies were concerned as well as the commissions he didn't do anything wrong.

He's a lost cause mate........He won't listen..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

3fingers wrote:

Strongback wrote:Androstenedione or Andro as it is better known is the testosterone precursor used by Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and other baseball players to increase their strength and recovery allowing them to beat long standing baseball home run records.  Andro and its variants has become notorious in baseball, in fact I seem to remember that the chemist behind "The Clear" used by Marion Jones and other track stars also had a big hand to play in baseballs prohormone controversy.

...from when i read it last, two minutes ago on wikipedia!   

Strongy does have his positive side.......He's a great cure for insomnia..

Don't like facts do you, you must find it incredibly boring when you're wrong.

A bit like the fact Mayweather has been happy to be a cherry picker since the Castillo fight.

I'm not wrong you haven't proved anything as Hammer has alluded too.....

You've made pops at Floyd's head size and Sturm's vascularity with no proof to back up these pops...

but you aren't rational......So I'm not surprised you think everyone else is wrong.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Sturm's vascularity ???..............

Louis had a zit on his neck apparently........Looked like an overdose of Sustanon..........Even though it wasn't used back then..

I'm going to move him down my heavyweight list...

Because who needs proof.........

Vascularity can be a bi-product of steroids abuse. All I said is it made me wonder if he is on gear.

It's not like Eastern Europe is not the second most dirty region in the world when it comes to PED abuses only being exceeded by the USA.

You're a Yank and you have posted you have taken/take steroids.............that's normal behaviour for millions of people in your country which makes it strange you have a problem with my suspicions about certain fighters.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Strongback wrote:Andro was banned by the IBF when Jones Jr tested positive for it.  It was also banned by the IOC and other sportig bodies at the time of this Jones fight.

Aside from the IBF none of the others are of any relevance to boxing Strongy, as far as 75% of the governing bodies were concerned as well as the commissions he didn't do anything wrong.

So it's ok for him to fail the IBF drug test?  

He was in the ring fighting for their belt and by their rules he cheated.


The fact that the WBA etc were behind many of he worlds leading sporting bodies is a further demonstration of their incompetence and boxings on the matter.

He should have been stripped of his IBF title but it highlights the problems in boxing, can't blame the boxers for exploiting the system.

I hear what your saying Strongy, its like The Ultimate Warrior failing a WWF drug test.... but its ok coz its allowed in the WCW.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm not wrong you haven't proved anything as Hammer has alluded too.....

You've made pops at Floyd's head size and Sturm's vascularity with no proof to back up these pops...

but you aren't rational......So I'm not surprised you think everyone else is wrong.

Why are you playing the green fool. You know the reality of drugs in sport.

How about I let you know every time a fighter gets caught this year. You'll be really really bored of me then.