GGG vs Andy Lee

First topic message reminder :

Looking likely this fight will happen on the 26th of April after Daniel Geale apparently turned the fight down.

I can see Lee being out of their by the halfway stage.

Strongback wrote:Nobody is saying GGG isn,t a good fighter they are just saying they want him to step up his opposition.  He might need to look outside his weight class but why not?  Golovkin v Froch in November now that would be a fight.

The guy is a middleweight. He wants to clean up at middleweight before moving up - perfectly normal. Froch is another that's been offered Golovkin - have you ever heard Froch mention him?

If Sturm or Martinez offered GGG a shot he'd snap their hands off. And then snap them.

He might do that but then again he might not, he seems happy fighting the likes of Adama and Stevens from what I can see but he talks a good game.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Nothing to do with Floyd, i'm not sure how anyone can call Golovkin a proper fighter when his best wins are the mighty Macklin and Stevens. I prefer to see somebody prove themselves before I jump on their bandwagon, it's not an acceptable excuse to say HBO decide his fight dates, he needs to grow some balls.

Good one. Most avoided man in boxing needs to grow a pair. Priceless.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He might do that but then again he might not, he seems happy fighting the likes of Adama and Stevens from what I can see but he talks a good game.

Talks a good game? Sure you have the right fighter? He barely speaks!!

Golovkins crime is probably that hes been touted as an opponent people want to see against Mayweather. So now he has to get crapped on.

Somehow Golovkin doesnt deserve a fight with Martinez but Murray, Macklin and now Cotto all do.

Laughable stuff.

The only fight at middleweight is Golovkin v Martinez. They are the stand outs, although the clock is about to strike on Martinez, especially if Golovkin drops the hammer on him. His performance against Macklin was too destructive for its own good. Macklin had proven himself against Sturm and Martinez as a tough opponent. Golovkin just wiped him out. Cant blame the rest of the division for not wanting to face him.

Martinez will either retire or wait until HBO front up enough money to make Golovkin worth the beating. Thats all it is really. If you want me to fight this monster then pay me big. Otherwise I will take the easier pay days (like Cotto).

Keep making excuses for him Haz but he himself needs to step up his opposition, he himself needs to tell the networks that they have to change dates if it makes a fight a possibility. He hasn't done any of that, he's happy to do anything HBO tell him but he's the one being avoided, priceless Haz.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Keep making excuses for him Haz but he himself needs to step up his opposition, he himself needs to tell the networks that they have to change dates if it makes a fight a possibility. He hasn't done any of that, he's happy to do anything HBO tell him but he's the one being avoided, priceless Haz.

He has little choice - where is he without that HBO contract? They're building him towards big fights - all he can do is keep demolishing people. He's called out Martinez who doesn't want to know.

catchweight wrote:Golovkins crime is probably that hes been touted as an opponent people want to see against Mayweather. So now he has to get crapped on.

Somehow Golovkin doesnt deserve a fight with Martinez but Murray, Macklin and now Cotto all do.

Laughable stuff.

The only fight at middleweight is Golovkin v Martinez. They are the stand outs, although the clock is about to strike on Martinez, especially if Golovkin drops the hammer on him. His performance against Macklin was too destructive for its own good. Macklin had proven himself against Sturm and Martinez as a tough opponent. Golovkin just wiped him out. Cant blame the rest of the division for not wanting to face him.

Martinez will either retire or wait until HBO front up enough money to make Golovkin worth the beating. Thats all it is really. If you want me to fight this monster then pay me big. Otherwise I will take the easier pay days (like Cotto).

Dead on. These Floyd fans are hilarious. He really has got a gold mine at his disposal with these suckers paying his mortgage.

What exactly has this got to do with Mayweather?

Haz, you like Golovkin so will make every excuse under the sun for him, his crap opposition is as much his fault as any other fighter in the world. The pair of you are constantly showing yourselves up with the constant Floyd jibes, dropping the petty insults would be a start.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:What exactly has this got to do with Mayweather?

Haz, you like Golovkin so will make every excuse under the sun for him, his crap opposition is as much his fault as any other fighter in the world. The pair of you are constantly showing yourselves up with the constant Floyd jibes, dropping the petty insults would be a start.

It isn't his fault no-one wants to fight him. Unlike Floyd he wants the best men - he'd even fight Floyd at 154 but that's not going to happen. Not when he can fight the likes of Khan and still have people pay to watch!

Oh I get it, you think Floyd is ducking him so you've now latched onto him as the best around, not sure why you and Truss insist on bringing up the same stuff every thread.

Martinez used to whinge about Chavez avoiding him when it was the only fight at middleweight. Now the shoe is on the other foot and he is perfectly happy to fight the Macklins and Murrays or go after the pay days when a real threat is there that is THE ONLY fight at the weight.

He wont face Golovkin for the same money he would any other challenger so HBO have to keep pushing Golovkin until they can get a figure that Martinez will agree to fight for. But some would rather blame Golovkin for this and excuse Martinez for his easy option fights as if its Golovkins fault. Makes sense!

hazharrison wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nobody is saying GGG isn,t a good fighter they are just saying they want him to step up his opposition.  He might need to look outside his weight class but why not?  Golovkin v Froch in November now that would be a fight.

The guy is a middleweight. He wants to clean up at middleweight before moving up - perfectly normal. Froch is another that's been offered Golovkin - have you ever heard Froch mention him?

If Sturm or Martinez offered GGG a shot he'd snap their hands off. And then snap them.

Pretty sure froch and/or Hearn mentioned ggg as a possible opponent after groves. On the shortlist with Jcc junior and ward, but all went quiet after that. The warrior will fight anyone remember... Except if they're bigger than him or called stevenson.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Oh I get it, you think Floyd is ducking him so you've now latched onto him as the best around, not sure why you and Truss insist on bringing up the same stuff every thread.

If I was latching onto fighters I thought Floyd had steered clear of I'd be doing a lot of latching!

I'm a fan of Golovkin because he's exciting, potentially great and will fight anyone. That's my type of fighter. Who the f*** starts following a fighter because they think another fighter might be ducking them. It's like kindergarten.

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nobody is saying GGG isn,t a good fighter they are just saying they want him to step up his opposition.  He might need to look outside his weight class but why not?  Golovkin v Froch in November now that would be a fight.

The guy is a middleweight. He wants to clean up at middleweight before moving up - perfectly normal. Froch is another that's been offered Golovkin - have you ever heard Froch mention him?

If Sturm or Martinez offered GGG a shot he'd snap their hands off. And then snap them.

Pretty sure froch and/or Hearn mentioned ggg as a possible opponent after groves. On the shortlist with Jcc junior and ward, but all went quiet after that. The warrior will fight anyone remember... Except if they're bigger than him or called stevenson.

Froch was offered GGG, Ward or Chavez in the States but chose to take Groves in the interim. He's never mentioned Golovkin - fighters know better than anyone what they're dealing with - guy's a killer.

He's lethal knocking out those no marks, all hail Wilder the future of the heavyweight division. Matthyse was getting similar billing and had proven himself to a degree Golovkin hasn't but that hype balloon was popped pretty abruptly.

Golovkin could prove me wrong Haz but those fighting in their comfort zone for so long do tend to lose the moment they step up their opposition.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Keep making excuses for him Haz but he himself needs to step up his opposition, he himself needs to tell the networks that they have to change dates if it makes a fight a possibility. He hasn't done any of that, he's happy to do anything HBO tell him but he's the one being avoided, priceless Haz.

Golovkin is fighting the same guy Chavez beat before fighting Martinez so thats a step up enough surely.

Or maybe he should take the Cotto route and get beat convincingly by guys in the weight division below to earn his shot.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He's lethal knocking out those no marks, all hail Wilder the future of the heavyweight division. Matthyse was getting similar billing and had proven himself to a degree Golovkin hasn't but that hype balloon was popped pretty abruptly.

Golovkin could prove me wrong Haz but those fighting in their comfort zone for so long do tend to lose the moment they step up their opposition.

I'd be willing to bet you cash that he beats everyone at 160-168 bar Ward?

1) Golovkin fights whoever is put in front of him with minimum fuss and beats them.

2) He's a consummate professional, a quiet man who gets down to business, a fighter not a businessman.

3) He's fighting in a mediocre divison, and sharing the ring with decent opposition.

4) Golovkin is not a big enough name to start demanding terms, fight dates etc.

5) Golovkin is not responsible for the hype (excluding his performances).

6) When the hype is sufficient then he will get the big names (as the big names will be more willing to take a loss for a big payday).

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He's lethal knocking out those no marks, all hail Wilder the future of the heavyweight division. Matthyse was getting similar billing and had proven himself to a degree Golovkin hasn't but that hype balloon was popped pretty abruptly.

Golovkin could prove me wrong Haz but those fighting in their comfort zone for so long do tend to lose the moment they step up their opposition.

If you think Golovkin is in the same lane as Wilder then Roger Mayweather has a catchphrase for you....

3fingers wrote:1) Golovkin fights whoever is put in front of him with minimum fuss and beats them.

2) He's a consummate professional, a quiet man who gets down to business, a fighter not a businessman.

3) He's fighting in a mediocre divison, and sharing the ring with decent opposition.

4) Golovkin is not a big enough name to start demanding terms, fight dates etc.

5) Golovkin is not responsible for the hype (excluding his performances).

6) When the hype is sufficient then he will get the big names (as the big names will be more willing to take a loss for a big payday).

Back of the net!

I'd put good money on that not happening, the bigger men won't be intimated by his power which isn't all that anyway. He's a hurtful puncher not a concussive one.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'd put good money on that not happening, the bigger men won't be intimated by his power which isn't all that anyway. He's a hurtful puncher not a concussive one.

DM me and we can PayPal some money to an intermediary. Pick your fight, too.

Can only assume you haven't seen him fight.

This is brilliant!

I'll act as the intermediarybecause I'm as straight as ollie locke.

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'd put good money on that not happening, the bigger men won't be intimated by his power which isn't all that anyway. He's a hurtful puncher not a concussive one.

DM me and we can PayPal some money to an intermediary. Pick your fight, too.

Can only assume you haven't seen him fight.

I've seen him fight plenty Haz, you really can't stand anyone disagreeing with you can you.

Golovkin fights Martinez, Ward, Froch or Lara and he loses.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'd put good money on that not happening, the bigger men won't be intimated by his power which isn't all that anyway. He's a hurtful puncher not a concussive one.

He is a lot more than hurtful Hammersmith, that's hugely underselling him! First person to put Proska down whose toughness can't be questioned & wiped him out in the 5th. Repeatedly hurt Rossado with the jab and essentially tore his face to shreds that night...Hurt Macklin numerous times before landing a devastating body shot; everyone is so quick to downplay that win but Macklin is proven at World Level..should have beat Sturm and was competitive against Martinez; who didn't beat him in anything approaching the manner GGG did. Knocked Ishida out clean (try telling him Golovkin isn't a concussive puncher)...

Now I'm not saying that one person is avoiding the other because we simply don't know; I do however think that people can't come on and slate his level of opposition but in the same breath not comment on the likes of Martinez, Sturm, Quillin...the fact is these 4 should be fighting one another.

Outside of these I'm not sure who else people expect Golovkin to fight...there's taking soft defences then there is fighting guys ranked inside the Top 20...which is what GGG is doing. Both Macklin & Stevens were top 15 at the time of him fighting them.

Who should he fight that you don't consider a stiff or soft Hammersmith?! Murray is fighting Sturm, Martinez v Cotto, Quillin v Stevens so that's those 6 busy...outside of that who is left?!

Lets face it, the Macklin performance alone is more than good enough to earn a shot against Martinez in that division. There really isnt any other top challenger for Martinez. Its as nailed on as you could wish. Golovkin will get the same crap thrown at him if he beat Geale or Sturm who arent really much better than Macklin or Lee aside from phony world titles anyway.

Sturm is the happiest man in the world to fight in Germany and let Martinez and Golovkin get on with things.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'd put good money on that not happening, the bigger men won't be intimated by his power which isn't all that anyway. He's a hurtful puncher not a concussive one.

DM me and we can PayPal some money to an intermediary. Pick your fight, too.

Can only assume you haven't seen him fight.

I've seen him fight plenty Haz, you really can't stand anyone disagreeing with you can you.

Golovkin fights Martinez, Ward, Froch or Lara and he loses.

Excellent. "Easy work" as they say in Michigan.

Old Man Martinez might have had a shot against an upcoming Golovkin three or four years ago. On his recent displays Golovkin would end his career. Martinez knows this, which is why he want to be well paid for it.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Just imagine the abuse GGG would get if his opponent was as bad as, say, Cotto.

Ironically Cotto, a light welter in reality, is still better than anything GGG has faced.


Golovkin can be seen on YouTube calling Mayweather out because he wants to fight the best. Why isn"t he calling Ward out.


When a fighter keeps taking penalty kick fights it's legitimate to ask questions. HBO will react eventually, there are plenty of fans already asking when GGG will be in a competitive fight.

Strongback wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Just imagine the abuse GGG would get if his opponent was as bad as, say, Cotto.

Ironically Cotto, a light welter in reality, is still better than anything GGG had faced.

Ridiculous claim.

I think it's clear Martinez doesn't want a piece of him, nor does Quillan.

However he's a named fighter and I struggle to believe he can't get a top guy in the ring. Calzaghe is rightly blasted for this.

Some very interesting fights for him. I think he loses to Ward because he's so damn good. Lara certainly has the ability to outbox him, be he can be found and hurt. GGG hits hard.

Froch is the best fight for him. Froch would be the naturally bigger man and GGG isn't that hard to find. Gun to head I'd pick Froch, but not a lot in it.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I think it's clear Martinez doesn't want a piece of him, nor does Quillan.

However he's a named fighter and I struggle to believe he can't get a top guy in the ring. Calzaghe is rightly blasted for this.

Some very interesting fights for him. I think he loses to Ward because he's so damn good. Lara certainly has the ability to outbox him, be he can be found and hurt. GGG hits hard.

Froch is the best fight for him. Froch would be the naturally bigger man and GGG isn't that hard to find. Gun to head I'd pick Froch, but not a lot in it.

Froch' same tough man but he has poor technique. Golovkin is technically excellent. I think he'd rout Froch.

Froch walks him down for me, think you're overselling GGG just to try and make a point, he's good technically but excellence is reserved for Ward, Rigondeuax and Mayweather. I'd be interest to see how he copes with fighting somebody a fair bit bigger than him, a 5 inch reach disadvantage isn't easy to overcome.

 

hazharrison wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nobody is saying GGG isn,t a good fighter they are just saying they want him to step up his opposition.  He might need to look outside his weight class but why not?  Golovkin v Froch in November now that would be a fight.

The guy is a middleweight. He wants to clean up at middleweight before moving up - perfectly normal. Froch is another that's been offered Golovkin - have you ever heard Froch mention him?

If Sturm or Martinez offered GGG a shot he'd snap their hands off. And then snap them.

Pretty sure froch and/or Hearn mentioned ggg as a possible opponent after groves. On the shortlist with Jcc junior and ward, but all went quiet after that. The warrior will fight anyone remember... Except if they're bigger than him or called stevenson.

Froch was offered GGG, Ward or Chavez in the States but chose to take Groves in the interim. He's never mentioned Golovkin - fighters know better than anyone what they're dealing with - guy's a killer.

What's the definition of mentioning haz? He or Eddie on his behalf talked about ggg as a possible opponent. It doesn't mean they ever planned to fight him, but they mentioned him.

I like 3G. But with martinez on the slide, it's a p*ss poor division.  I'm reserving final judgement until I see him in a real test, but I 'm not sure when that will be. Not his fault, but unfortunately, after he's cleaned out middleweight, (which if the fights can be made I'm sure he'll probably do) he'll be no spring chicken and the opponent cupboard might look increasingly bare.

For the bigger fights he'll have to go up in weight , whilst there are still people there to chase.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Froch walks him down for me, think you're overselling GGG just to try and make a point, he's good technically but excellence is reserved for Ward, Rigondeuax and Mayweather. I'd be interest to see how he copes with fighting somebody a fair bit bigger than him, a 5 inch reach disadvantage isn't easy to overcome.

Warped. Absolutely warped.

I was quite alarmed how easily Stevenson found the target with the left hook. GGG never looked in trouble but as Froch has recently proven, your chin can only take so much.

milkyboy wrote:I'm reserving final judgement until I see him in a real test

This is all you can realistically do. He looks good enough to be a force, but I'm not officially on the bandwagon until he beats someone of note.

You have serious issues Haz, why do you always think you're categorically and equivocally correct, it's just an opinion.

milkyboy wrote: 

hazharrison wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nobody is saying GGG isn,t a good fighter they are just saying they want him to step up his opposition.  He might need to look outside his weight class but why not?  Golovkin v Froch in November now that would be a fight.

The guy is a middleweight. He wants to clean up at middleweight before moving up - perfectly normal. Froch is another that's been offered Golovkin - have you ever heard Froch mention him?

If Sturm or Martinez offered GGG a shot he'd snap their hands off. And then snap them.

Pretty sure froch and/or Hearn mentioned ggg as a possible opponent after groves. On the shortlist with Jcc junior and ward, but all went quiet after that. The warrior will fight anyone remember... Except if they're bigger than him or called stevenson.

Froch was offered GGG, Ward or Chavez in the States but chose to take Groves in the interim. He's never mentioned Golovkin - fighters know better than anyone what they're dealing with - guy's a killer.

What's the definition of mentioning haz? He or Eddie on his behalf talked about ggg as a possible opponent. It doesn't mean they ever planned to fight him, but they mentioned him.

I like 3G. But with martinez on the slide, it's a p*ss poor division.  I'm reserving final judgement until I see him in a real test, but I 'm not sure when that will be. Not his fault, but unfortunately, after he's cleaned out middleweight, (which if the fights can be made I'm sure he'll probably do) he'll be no spring chicken and the opponent cupboard might look increasingly bare.

For the bigger fights he'll have to go up in weight , whilst there are still people there to chase.

Long-term HBO will plot to match him with Ward but neither are PPV right now. Chavez outsells both.

Think it's a little unfair to call him warped Haz. Golovkin is clearly a good fighter but we don't know just how good he is yet. He's still got plenty to prove.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Think it's a little unfair to call him warped Haz. Golovkin is clearly a good fighter but we don't know just how good he is yet. He's still got plenty to prove.

I was referring to the point he made that I was overselling Golovkin to try and make a point. You can't simply be a fan of someone these days. Warped view.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Think it's a little unfair to call him warped Haz. Golovkin is clearly a good fighter but we don't know just how good he is yet. He's still got plenty to prove.

Froch struggles with speed, Golovkin does not have speed so I don't see him getting to the naturally bigger man, a guy who is infinitely tougher than anyone he has faced. Just ask Groves, Kessler, Bute, Taylor and Pascal how easy it is to stop Froch in his tracks over 12 rounds. Abraham was once a world class destructive middleweight but he couldn't handle the step up in weight, he and Golovkin aren't much different size wise.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Think it's a little unfair to call him warped Haz. Golovkin is clearly a good fighter but we don't know just how good he is yet. He's still got plenty to prove.

Froch struggles with speed, Golovkin does not have speed so I don't see him getting to the naturally bigger man, a guy who is infinitely tougher than anyone he has faced. Just ask Groves, Kessler, Bute, Taylor and Pascal how easy it is to stop Froch in his tracks over 12 rounds. Abraham was once a world class destructive middleweight but he couldn't handle the step up in weight, he and Golovkin aren't much different size wise.

Golovkin is a technically excellent. I think he'd stop Froch - that's how highly I rate him.

Golovkin beats Macklin he's the real deal, Alvarez beats Trout he's a hype job.

I think you could be accused of underselling Golovkin as much as Haz is over selling him. Whilst Haz may make him sound like the 2nd coming of Ward or Mayweather you yourself seem to point to him simply being someone who walks people down with his size and punching power akin Abraham..

GGG is a much better boxer than Abraham was and you only need to watch performances against Macklin, Rossado & Stevens to notice that. He puts his punches together very well and his footwork is definitely more towards being excellent than being just good. He can close the ring off very well (reminds me of Hatton in his early days).

That being said, he can stay in the pocket too long and has been caught a few times...something he may not get away with against someone naturally bigger like Froch. He wastes very little though and if Groves can catch Carl at will with the right hand then I would fully expect Golovkin to have his fair share of success. Be a great fight and despite everything Froch has done at World Level I would at this time predict Golovkin to beat him (Carl being on the slide does play a factor here).

I do hope fights can get sorted though because we need new stars in this sport and the way it's going once Mayweather, Pacman & Cotto are gone we will have none.

It's a travesty that 18 months from now we could be looking at Mayweather, Pacman and Martinez being retired....and all could do so without facing their legitimate toughest fight & the consensus divisional number 2 i.e. Martinez v Golovkin....Mayweather v Pacman....

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Golovkin beats Macklin he's the real deal, Alvarez beats Trout he's a hype job.

We'll see genius.

You criticise Golovkin and claim Alvarez isn't a hype job? It's like FLUFFMAN hasn't been away all day.

owen10ozzy wrote:I think you could be accused of underselling Golovkin as much as Haz is over selling him. Whilst Haz may make him sound like the 2nd coming of Ward or Mayweather you yourself seem to point to him simply being someone who walks people down with his size and punching power akin Abraham..

GGG is a much better boxer than Abraham was and you only need to watch performances against Macklin, Rossado & Stevens to notice that. He puts his punches together very well and his footwork is definitely more towards being excellent than being just good. He can close the ring off very well (reminds me of Hatton in his early days).

That being said, he can stay in the pocket too long and has been caught a few times...something he may not get away with against someone naturally bigger like Froch. He wastes very little though and if Groves can catch Carl at will with the right hand then I would fully expect Golovkin to have his fair share of success. Be a great fight and despite everything Froch has done at World Level I would at this time predict Golovkin to beat him (Carl being on the slide does play a factor here).

I do hope fights can get sorted though because we need new stars in this sport and the way it's going once Mayweather, Pacman & Cotto are gone we will have none.

It's a travesty that 18 months from now we could be looking at Mayweather, Pacman and Martinez being retired....and all could do so without facing their legitimate toughest fight & the consensus divisional number 2 i.e. Martinez v Golovkin....Mayweather v Pacman....

To be fair to Martinez, he took on Williams twice when it mattered. After his injury woes he can be forgiven for taking an easy one next up.

The other two already blew it - even if they fight down the road.

The thing with any analysis like that Owen is that it's based on fights against fairly average opposition, does he do that against better fighters we don't yet know. Matthyse was seen as an almost unstoppable force before he met Garcia but that fight proved two things, he can't destroy everyone and a leaky defence gets you in trouble.

Abraham and Golovkin are different fighters but the former is a good example of ability at one weight not translating to ability northwards.

Comparing the power of Groves and Golovkin is in itself a tricky exercise, I have seen Groves drop and hurt the iron chinned Froch, now nobody GGG has faced is that damn tough. GGG's best wins have come against 154lbers moving up, so we're then asking how his power travels up 14lbs.

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Golovkin beats Macklin he's the real deal, Alvarez beats Trout he's a hype job.

We'll see genius.

You criticise Golovkin and claim Alvarez isn't a hype job? It's like FLUFFMAN hasn't been away all day.

I'm not claiming anything but Alvarez in beating Trout has the superior win of the pair, that it was close doesn't prove a thing really, Trout is simply far superior to Macklin.