Grigor Dimitrov - Can He Fill Federer Shaped Hearts?

Everyone remembers the time. July 2nd 2001 when a certain Roger Federer announced himself to the world when he downed Pete Sampras at Wimbledon. Change was on the horizon. That year saw Lleyton Hewitt emerge the same as Federer, but both careers would head in different directions come 2003 when the Swiss prodigy became a Slam winner. Now Roger Federer has graced tennis with great imagination and craft which we will never see the likes of again. Roger Federer has spoilt tennis fans and now many feel that Federer is now reaching the end of his career. 32 years young, 33 in August. It does beg the question when will he bring the curtain down on his career. It will be a great loss to the sport when he does hang up his racquet and many fans might just walk away from the sport all together when Federer does.

However.

In 2008 we saw arguably the greatest match ever played at Wimbledon. Roger Federer's dominance at the top was just starting to fade as Rafael Nadal beat him in a five set thriller to capture his 1st Wimbledon title and deny Roger a record breaking 6th consecutive title. That year also saw a certain Grigor Dimitrov win the Wimbledon Junior's title and 2 months later go on to capture the US Open Junior's title. The following year he caused a stir when he defeated Tomas Berdych and nearly defeated Gilles Simon and even served for match before coming unstuck. He also took Rafa to 3 sets. He then earned himself the nickname "Baby Fed" and really from there his career has been scrutinised. A lot expected him to kick on from his juniors success and it didn't quite work out that well for him. He reached the top 100 in 2011 and a lot was expected of him and it never quite worked out in that way for him.

He has about Roger's mannerisms on court in the sense that he serves like him, has a SHBH and also sets himself up to receive serve in the same manner. You can see how he got the nickname. 2013 saw a change in fortune for Baby Fed. He won his first ATP title in Stockholm and he also scored a stunning 3 set victory over Novak Djokovic at Madrid. Dimitrov also took a big step by hiring Roger Rasheed who has clearly had a big impact on his fitness. Dimitrov Has since gone on to reach the Quarter Finals of the Australian Open and win his second title by defeating Gulbis, Murray and Anderson all in 3 sets to win Acapulco. He has hit a career high ranking of 16. Everything seems to point to change.

Dimitrov is a great mover around the court and he will only get fitter under Rasheed. I only hope his tennis doesn't suffer like it has with Murray for example who traded tennis for fitness. I think he is a wonderful mover on Clay and I think he can do well in the Clay season.

The question I have for Federer fans is does Dimitrov have enough in his locker to help carry tennis when Federer goes? Do you draw any parallels with Dimitrov? Does Dimitrov inspire you the way Federer has?

I recall a certain French player, Mr. Gasquet, being called the French Federer.

It is amazing that there is such a strong desire to have Federer (or his alter-egos) play the sport and provide a likeness for eternity.

IMVHO, there will never be any other Federer, pretenders may come and go, same can be said of one Mr. Rafael Nadal. They are both unique, and Tennis history will reflect it as such.

I thought there were positives and negatives in the murray match. Serve and willingness to go forwards were great. However his backhand was harshly exposed for long spells. If he can improve that shot he will be a genuine contender.

laverfan wrote:I recall a certain French player, Mr. Gasquet, being called the French Federer.

It is amazing that there is such a strong desire to have Federer (or his alter-egos) play the sport and provide a likeness for eternity.

IMVHO, there will never be any other Federer, pretenders may come and go, same can be said of one Mr. Rafael Nadal. They are both unique, and Tennis history will reflect it as such.

LF nailed it here, to be frank we [in sense of global tennis fans] are adding a lot of pressure on Dimitrov to replace Federer, the reality is there will be no other Federer, he is once in a life time player and his time his coming to an end soon.  

Eventhough I am happy with Dimi's success I am not excited by his game as much as I do on Fed, its not just the game style, its about the personality in total impress a fan, Fed and Nadal are a great package in total not just playing style, great character etc,..

I am happy for Dimitrov success but sadly it ends there, I don't think he can replace the TMF.  

Yeah I saw the first set of the Murray match and Murray essentially won the set by playing to the Dimitrov backhand. It's not as much of a glaring weak spot as it is with Roger is Dimitrov is bigger and can get over the ball easier, but it is an area to exploit.

He has most of the toolset required to win some big titles, he could have taken a set or two of Rafa in Melbourne and he beat Andy... Ell have to see if he keeps improving. He will certainly never be the new Federer though. Rog brought a magic to tennis that can never be replicated.

laverfan wrote:I recall a certain French player, Mr. Gasquet, being called the French Federer.

It is amazing that there is such a strong desire to have Federer (or his alter-egos) play the sport and provide a likeness for eternity.

IMVHO, there will never be any other Federer, pretenders may come and go, same can be said of one Mr. Rafael Nadal. They are both unique, and Tennis history will reflect it as such.

Pretty much any decent youngster with a SHBH is going to be compared to Federer

Wawrinka, the other SUI player, with a very good SHBH, Haas, and many others are excellent players. As oft lamented here, court speeds do a disservice to these players.

Djokovic v Federer @ Dubai was very different from Dimitrov v Murray @ Acapulco, despite the results favouring the Shbh.

Hanescu and Ungur are good, too, IMO, even if not in the same league. Perhaps the expanded Grass season may help more Shbh players on the scene. I am also impressed with Lajovic.

I don't really get the idea SHB are disadvantaged by playing on slower surfaces. They have longer swings and slower surfaces should therefore suit them. Stan is certainly better on slower surfaces. The actual issue is that most SHB are weaknesses and therefore getting involved in rallies is a risk as they are likely to break down.

Born Slippy wrote:I don't really get the idea SHB  are disadvantaged by playing on slower surfaces. They have longer swings and slower surfaces should therefore suit them. Stan is certainly better on slower surfaces. The actual issue is that most SHB are weaknesses and therefore getting involved in rallies is a risk as they are likely to break down.

The slower surfaces allow the defensive players to retrieve more, so multiple winners shots are required and asked of an SHBH.

A very percentage of Djokovic shots ended up in Federer BH, as did Murray's. Both of them were spraying UEs like crazy in their respective matches.

Bit OT, but there seems to be a large crowd watching Fedrinka play the Indo-Pak Express.

Born Slippy wrote:I don't really get the idea SHB  are disadvantaged by playing on slower surfaces. They have longer swings and slower surfaces should therefore suit them. Stan is certainly better on slower surfaces. The actual issue is that most SHB are weaknesses and therefore getting involved in rallies is a risk as they are likely to break down.

Some of the best backhands in the game are 1-handed, so I don't think it can be argued that most 1-handed backhands http://tennis-column.blogspot.com/2014/02/what-killed-one-handed-backhand.html in professional tennis are weaknesses.  There are problems with both backhands, but because 2-handed backhand allows you to be more competitive at an earlier age (because you can more easily absorb pace and spin with a 2-handed backhand) it is more prevalent in professional tennis. Once it is learned, and success is achieved, there's not a lot of reason to change it, so it stays individually and is pervasive in the game.

Federer has problems http://tennis-column.blogspot.com/2014/02/federers-high-one-handed-backhand.html against Nadal on the backhand, but not really anybody else - everyone targets his backhand because his forehand is so good, but most extended rallies in professional tennis are backhand to backhand for the very reason that most players have relatively better forehands than backhands.  There are a couple of players who are basically technically symmetrical (like Djokovic and Murray) against whom isolating one stroke or the other won't help much, but that's not the case with Federer and Nadal.  The problem with targeting Nadal's backhand is that he moves so well to cover it and the shot up the line to his forehand, that finding it is very hard...it's easier if you are technically symmetrical (e.g. Djokovic and Murray) and harder if you aren't (e.g. Federer and Tsonga).

But I actually think that because the shot is harder to learn and execute, if you see a player with a 1-handed backhand, the chances are he is innately more talented than your average player, because to make up for the difficulty of learning and executing this shot, they generally have to have outstanding hand/eye coordination. That's not to say that only players with 1-handed backhands have outstanding hand/eye coordination, I'm just saying that if you see a high level player with a 1-handed backhand, chances are they're very talented.

MMT1 wrote:That's not to say that only players with 1-handed backhands have outstanding 1-handed backhands, I'm just saying that if you see a high level player with a 1-handed backhand, chances are they're very talented.

That should say: "That's not to say that only players with 1-handed backhands are very talented, I'm just saying that if you see a high level player with a 1-handed backhand, chances are they're very talented."

laverfan wrote:Bit OT, but there seems to be a large crowd watching Fedrinka play the Indo-Pak Express.

Best doubles team on form vs Best crowd pulling team, obviously crowd reacted to it. If I get two swiss stars action on 1 ticket why would I miss it   

@MMT1... One factor is foot-speed to complement the SHBH. As players age, the SHBH becomes more and more a defensive stroke (slice, cc, etc.).

Watching McEnroe, Edberg, and now Federer, Haas, et al, this needs to be factored in.

@iC... Are you at IW?

To propose Dimitrov as a substitute for Federer because of a SHBH and some cosmetic similarities is like saying I'm a likeness of Van Gogh because I can paint yellow flowers. There is vastly more to the experience of watching Federer than an elegant shot that makes it unique.
If I was forced to isolate one type of shot that has made he watch him for these years it's this type, at 2:39:50

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3g_cXNGiPyA

You only have to look at the reaction of the opponents entourage to see how people in the game recognise he has dimensions not available even to contemporaries at the top of the sport.

 

huh? more by luck than judgement, Murray hits it back to him and he hits a half volley that lands on the line

what does that prove? Alex Dolgolopolov does half a dozen of those a set

Rightjugeiam wrote:huh? more by luck than judgement, Murray hits it back to him and he hits a half volley that lands on the line

what does that prove? Alex Dolgolopolov does half a dozen of those a set

You've not watched much tennis over the last 12 years then?

Born Slippy wrote:I don't really get the idea SHB  are disadvantaged by playing on slower surfaces. They have longer swings and slower surfaces should therefore suit them. Stan is certainly better on slower surfaces. The actual issue is that most SHB are weaknesses and therefore getting involved in rallies is a risk as they are likely to break down.

Looking at the bits highlighted in bold.  Does the second bit not explain to some extent why SHB is disadvantaged on slower surfaces?  I would tend to agree that SHBH will typically have a disadvantage in a rally.  But tennis on fast surfaces is not about rallying - one has to create an attack very quickly or else the other side will.  In those conditions, SHBH can hold its own - or maybe even better than that - because it allows more variety.

Not sure I could isolate one shot in particular. If I did it would be the BH he used to save MP against Rafa in 2008 at Wimbledon. That was unreal!

legendkillarV2 wrote:Not sure I could isolate one shot in particular. If I did it would be the BH he used to save MP against Rafa in 2008 at Wimbledon. That was unreal!

I agree lk.. but like all of the greats in the sport they come up with an "unreal" shot during the course of their career but even so ot can hardly can be judged as " people in the game recognise he has dimensions not available even to contemporaries at the top of the sport." Unless Im not seeing through the same rose coloured specs !!!

Haddie-nuff wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Not sure I could isolate one shot in particular. If I did it would be the BH he used to save MP against Rafa in 2008 at Wimbledon. That was unreal!

I agree lk.. but like all of the greats in the sport they come up with an "unreal" shot during the course of their career  but even so ot  can hardly can be judged as   "    people in the game recognise he has dimensions not available even to contemporaries at the top of the sport."  Unless Im not seeing through the same rose coloured specs !!!

You're probably just acting to type, no glasses needed. It's pretty much evident that Federer has dimensions to his game that separate him from merely excellent players. That forehand was just one of countless examples of the same kind of thing; another similar one other sticking in my mind was a backhand version of the same thing in a Masters Y/E final against Ferrer. It's not like there were only a few to pick.
And obviously I'm just looking at that crazy half volley technique, there's a mountain of similar stuff from when he was in his prime. Virtually the whole of his AO 2007 semi springs to mind.

Unless your line is that his legacy is a SHBH. Maybe that's what you think.

quote
how people in the game recognise he has dimensions not available even to contemporaries at the top of the sport.
--------------------------------------------
When comments such as this are posted they are designed to be taken as a statement of fact (backed up by no evidence whatsoever) instead of simply being what they are one man´s biased opinion. A BB classic example.  If the statement were a fact and backed up with evidence that was unarguable then I might concede  As it is it is just what it is the opinion of the font of all knowledge when it comes to both tennis and Federer in particularl. The sad fact is you get people like me... oh yes I hear you say... who knows nothing of tennis, never has had never will do. And in particular knows nothing of the man who seemingly walks on water because he has dimensions above all other players in the sport. Facts I would be compelled to have to agree but  opinions I dont.
But that is the wonderful thing about this forum Im allowed to politely disagree.

So even though it is against the law of the almighty BB.. that quote is total garbage and there I have had the downright nerve and affrontry to say so.

There must be a wonderful view from those lofty heights of yours BB.where you can see clearly over the heads of us mere mortals.

Born Slippy wrote:I don't really get the idea SHB  are disadvantaged by playing on slower surfaces. They have longer swings and slower surfaces should therefore suit them. Stan is certainly better on slower surfaces. The actual issue is that most SHB are weaknesses and therefore getting involved in rallies is a risk as they are likely to break down.

Shb is better on the low bounce, the higher the bounce the worse the shb performs. It is not so much the speed of the court but the low bounce which results from the slower court. The single hander is most effective on a ball from his knee to his waist. While conversly the two hander is better on a ball from your waist to your shoulder. My favorite ball on my two hander is a ball just a little short but around my shoulders then you can hit it right up the line and as flat as you like without worrying about net clearance.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

bogbrush wrote:
how people in the game recognise he has dimensions not available even to contemporaries at the top of the sport.

When comments such as this are posted they are designed to be taken as a statement of fact (backed up by no evidence whatsoever) instead of simply being what they are one man´s biased opinion.

From Rafa, page 82(English version),

Toni has never ceased to remind me - and I know he is right -  that Federer is more technically gifted than I am, but he does so not to cause me despondency, but he knows saying so will motivate me to sharpen my game. I watch Federer playing on video sometimes, and I will amazed at how good he is; surprised that I have been able to beat him.

Methinks, Toni talks too much.

Yes he does.. and its still only an opinion... and again one I dont think he himself necessarily believes but as Rafa says it does sharpen his game.  But Rafa has his own "dimensions"   But there again thats yet another opinion.

Me thinks Edberg should adopt the tactics of a possible GOAT coach otherwise known as everyone's "uncle Toni". ie he should never cease to remind Federer that Nadal is more technically gifted than himself and get him to watch Nadal on video  

You never know it could work. And after all Federer has got nothing to lose  

Grigor Dimitrov - Can He Fill Federer Shaped Hearts?

No, but a thread about him can start a GOAT debate.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Grigor Dimitrov - Can He Fill Federer Shaped Hearts?

No, but a thread about him can start a GOAT debate.

A thread on the mating habits of the sloth bear could start a GOAT debate on here.   

Every thread is a GOAT debate waiting to happen.

On Dimitrov: Of course he is no Federer, but who is? But he is certainly among those youngsters that I enjoy watching more than most. How closely I follow tennis after Roger retires will depend on how interesting I will find it to watch it. The more Grigors we have, the more likely I am to be following it closely.

Everyone thought there would never be another Borg, Sampras McEnroe...but now they are history and have had to move over for those who we feel have "surpassed"  them  and so it will be with Federer, Nadal and Djokovic.. of course they will be in the history books and spoken about on forums for years to come.. but others will follow.
And that is just how it should be. Let it be remembered that these men are superlative tennis players to us who have been lucky enough to see them through their careers. To others they will be merely legends.

Just to be clear the GOAT I was referring to was Uncle Toni and not his charge. He is a possible GOAT amongst coaches. Stefan should watch and learn  

Who's Grigor? I haven't seen anyone comparable to Fed.

Haddie-nuff wrote:quote
how people in the game recognise he has dimensions not available even to contemporaries at the top of the sport.
--------------------------------------------
When comments such as this are posted they are designed to be taken as a statement of fact (backed up by no evidence whatsoever) instead of simply being what they are one man´s biased opinion. A BB classic example.  If the statement were a fact and backed up with evidence that was unarguable then I might concede  As it is it is just what it is the opinion of the font of all knowledge when it comes to both tennis and Federer in particularl. The sad fact is you get people like me... oh yes I hear you say... who knows nothing of tennis, never has had never will do. And in particular knows nothing of the man who seemingly walks on water because he has dimensions above all other players in the sport. Facts I would be compelled to have to agree  but   opinions I dont.
But that is the wonderful thing about this forum Im allowed to politely disagree.

So even though it is against the law of the almighty BB.. that quote is total garbage and there I have had the downright nerve and affrontry to say so.

There must be a wonderful view from those lofty heights of yours BB.where you can see clearly over the heads of us mere mortals.

I bet you regretted that rant once the Rafa quote was posted.

I doubt it'll put you off next time though, previous similar experiences haven't.

I dont regret anything I say to you BB and it wasn´t a rant as you so quaintly put it...but then anything in contradiction to your opinion is classed as a rant, It took you 24 hours to come up with THAT as your response so I must be getting near the mark  Rafa´s quote was nothing new and it is well documented .. as I say Rafa admits himself it is said to keep him motivated but even  though  Toni ALSO has a loud mouth he did not utter such garbage as

how people in the game recognise he has dimensions not available even to contemporaries at the top of the sport.

Just listen to yourself BB you get worse in your old age. When Federer retires you will just have watch bowls.. and dont you concern yourself about me being put off,... I wont be around here for much longer.  .. but could not resist the temptation of giving you one more reality check before I leave call it my goodbye gift.    

And LV will be able to put her wooden spoon away  hey LV    PS time to stop reading the  Emperor´s New Clothes your a big boy now.

BYeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 

Grigor I think is in many ways different than Roger. He hits the ball heavier off both wings than Roger and has a little bit more on the first serve. That being said he is not in Roger's class and never will be. The big difference is that Federer is a good to very good returner at least he was in his prime. Dimitrov is a bit of a liability on the return and really needs to work on this area. Also Fed's forehand is a step or two better. But I think Grigor can become a slam champion and possible number one type player if he addresses the return and fitness issues in his game.

It's a double edged sword, isn't it? I'm sure when you're young, and in need of some financing to make it in the junior game, being hailed as the Next Federer is a god-send, as it immediately makes you an advertisers dream. Fast Forward a few years, with results not having give as expected, it probably feels more like ab albatross that a compliment of any kind

Well he did win a 500 in Acapulco. There isn't much other talent in his age bracket that is superior to him or close to him. A good looking kid with a watchable game. The nostalgics get all weak in the knees over his one handed backhand. He does have good looking swings, a lot of shots, and some great athletic ability. There is a lot to work with there.

Haddie-nuff wrote:... I wont be around here for much longer.   .. but could not resist the temptation of giving you one more reality check before I leave call it my goodbye gift.      

Where are you off to, H-n?

Haddie-nuff wrote:And LV will be able to put her wooden spoon away  hey LV    PS time to stop reading the  Emperor´s New Clothes your a big boy now.

H-n, not sure what to make of this?

Haddie-nuff wrote:I dont regret anything I say to you BB and it wasn´t a rant as you so quaintly put it...but then anything in contradiction to your opinion is classed as a rant, It took you 24 hours to come up with THAT as your response so I must be getting near the mark  Rafa´s quote was nothing new and it is well documented .. as I say Rafa admits himself it is said to keep him motivated but even  though  Toni ALSO has a loud mouth he did not utter such garbage as

how people in the game recognise he has dimensions not available even to contemporaries at the top of the sport.

Just listen to yourself BB you get worse in your old age. When Federer retires you will just have watch bowls.. and dont you concern yourself about me being put off,... I wont be around here for much longer.  .. but could not resist the temptation of giving you one more reality check before I leave call it my goodbye gift.    

And LV will be able to put her wooden spoon away  hey LV    PS time to stop reading the  Emperor´s New Clothes your a big boy now.

BYeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 

Great to see you're not ranting any more   

SHBH aside, I don't think the resemblance to Federer is strong. I keep hearing how their forehands are similar but Dimi doesn't seem to hit with that straight arm that is so distinctive in Federer.

Dimi's movement also seems totally different, I don't see Federer's glide in him at all.

In fact, now Dimi has improved his fitness, I can see something of Djokovic in his movement. He doesn't have quite the same agility but he seems to 'scamper' across the court in a similar way. The point below is very Novakian:



Did/does anyone really ever call him Baby Fed though? Or is it like JMDP supposedly being called 'The Tower of Tandil' when in fact nobody apart from lazy headline writers called him that?

HM Murdoch wrote:SHBH aside, I don't think the resemblance to Federer is strong. I keep hearing how their forehands are similar but Dimi doesn't seem to hit with that straight arm that is so distinctive in Federer.

Dimi's movement also seems totally different, I don't see Federer's glide in him at all.

In fact, now Dimi has improved his fitness, I can see something of Djokovic in his movement. He doesn't have quite the same agility but he seems to 'scamper' across the court in a similar way. The point below is very Novakian:



Did/does anyone really ever call him Baby Fed though? Or is it like JMDP supposedly being called 'The Tower of Tandil' when in fact nobody apart from lazy headline writers called him that?

Yes there are a lot of differences. Dimi is a bigger more muscular built guy as well. Also he hits with a lot more spin on both sides where federer hits the ball flatter. I think the fact that he played with the one hander and the same racquet (fed's old one) is basically where this all came about. And he was the top ranked junior as well so that kind of built up the hype. But you are right, it is basically a media created hype in order to sell papers.