Arsenal FC thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Use this for the Arsenal debates and such

[socal1976]

I don't consider the league cup a major trophy does anyone? I would trade about 6 league cups for playing in the champion's league for one year. Are you telling me that if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmigham we would be immune from criticism now. So let me get this straight, because Arsenal have been closer to elite and more consistently good than liverpool for a long time, Liverpool and other fans should come on this website and constantly hammer Arsenal as failures. I don't see anyone pointing out the years they haven't made the CL, or pointing out how long its been since they won the league. They haven't won very much in the last decade either. Like I said their last MAJOR trophy was one year after ours.

[Ent]

In the last decade they've won the CL, FA cup, League cup, Community shield and Super cup.

People are always calling them rubbish and laughing for not making top 4.

[Guest]

I don't consider the league cup a major trophy does anyone? I would trade about 6 league cups for playing in the champion's league for one year. Are you telling me that if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmigham we would be immune from criticism now.  So let me get this straight, because Arsenal have been closer to elite and more consistently good than liverpool for a long time, Liverpool and other fans should come on this website and constantly hammer Arsenal as failures. I don't see anyone pointing out the years they haven't made the CL,  or pointing  out  how long its been since they won the league. They haven't won very much in the last decade either. Like I said their last MAJOR trophy was one year after ours.

IN WHICH CASE YOU MUST BE F*****G BLIND MATE (but then again, you are trying to justify Arsenal's lack of silverware and refusal to consider it a failure for such a big club). Most threads about Liverpool descend into taunts about us no longer being a big club, reliance on past glories, failure to accept that our time as a major force is over etc etc etc etc etc etc. You may want to stick your head in the sand over Arsenal's lack of anything except being thereabouts (again) but that will obviously blind you to the obvious fact that Liverpool are hammered pretty much constantly by all and sundry. Even this season there are comments about punching above our weight and how it's going to go horribly wrong at some stage.

Arsenal have choked so many times over the years it's untrue. You have a club that is owned by three billionaires and yet time and again you find reasons to justify their lack of big spending and are happy to swallow the load that Wenger jacks off into your collective mouths about how he won't be held to ransom by players, pay over the odds or succumb to panic buying just to remain competitive and have a sexy looking spread sheet to hand.

You can play all the lovely football you want, but at the end of the day, the vast majority of fans want a trip to Wembley and the chance to sing "We are the Champions"

[Ent]

I wouldn't say Arsenal have choked regularly, they just haven't been good enough.

[Guest]

You say po-tay-to, I say po-tar-to, mate.

However you want to view it, they've had opportunites and the ability to do a damn sight better than they have. The fact that Wenger is still in power despite his lack of success is a miracle of biblical proportions. Is there another manager of such a high profile club who has produced such a level of "not quite-ness" for such a sustained period without being sacked?

[Ent]

Have they?

Apart from the league cup against Birmingham when have they been the best team in a competition in the last 9 years and not won?

[Stella]

Trouble is with Arsenal is, they were the best team in England, and in the space of three seasons, went to third, and have since stayed there or fallen below that. I know Wenger has had to watch his wallet, but selling established players, and then your best youth ones, doesn't help, and will p..s off some fans.

[socal1976]

I don't consider the league cup a major trophy does anyone? I would trade about 6 league cups for playing in the champion's league for one year. Are you telling me that if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmigham we would be immune from criticism now.  So let me get this straight, because Arsenal have been closer to elite and more consistently good than liverpool for a long time, Liverpool and other fans should come on this website and constantly hammer Arsenal as failures. I don't see anyone pointing out the years they haven't made the CL,  or pointing  out  how long its been since they won the league. They haven't won very much in the last decade either. Like I said their last MAJOR trophy was one year after ours.

IN WHICH CASE YOU MUST BE F*****G BLIND MATE (but then again, you are trying to justify Arsenal's lack of silverware and refusal to consider it a failure for such a big club). Most threads about Liverpool descend into taunts about us no longer being a big club, reliance on past glories, failure to accept that our time as a major force is over etc etc etc etc etc etc. You may want to stick your head in the sand over Arsenal's lack of anything except being thereabouts (again) but that will obviously blind you to the obvious fact that Liverpool are hammered pretty much constantly by all and sundry. Even this season there are comments about punching above our weight and how it's going to go horribly wrong at some stage.

Arsenal have choked so many times over the years it's untrue. You have a club that is owned by three billionaires and yet time and again you find reasons to justify their lack of big spending and are happy to swallow the load that Wenger jacks off into your collective mouths about how he won't be held to ransom by players, pay over the odds or succumb to panic buying just to remain competitive and have a sexy looking spread sheet to hand.

You can play all the lovely football you want, but at the end of the day, the vast majority of fans want a trip to Wembley and the chance to sing "We are the Champions"

Ok, nice imagery with Wenger playing the flute solo in our mouths, I like a good turn of phrase but you are no Byron. By the way a significant portion of Arsenal fans aren't happy with Wenger and want him out. I just find it funny that you call us failures and then say that you would love a top 4 finish. So you would love to fail like Arsenal as opposed to failing like Liverpool. If we are failures your just as big if not bigger failures. The season is not over and Arsenal are going to Wembley, did you not get the memo it was in all the papers.

[socal1976]

In the last decade they've won the CL, FA cup, League cup, Community shield and Super cup.

People are always calling them rubbish and laughing for not making top 4.

If a decade is the measuring stick we have won 2 FA cups and the league title.

[Guest]

Have they?

Apart from the league cup against Birmingham when have they been the best team in a competition in the last 9 years and not won?

Were Liverpool favourites to win the Champion's League in 2005?

[socal1976]

Trouble is with Arsenal is, they were the best team in England, and in the space of three seasons, went to third, and have since stayed there or fallen below that. I know Wenger has had to watch his wallet, but selling established players, and then your best youth ones, doesn't help, and will p..s off some fans.

It still beats going from the best team in the country to going to mid table or out of Europe. But I do agree not very happy with the sale of the players we had to get rid of. Although Clichy didn't work out too badly as Gibbs came into the picture. And Fabregas well we weren't going to be able to keep him since his boyhood club was Barcelona and they desperately wanted him.

[Guest]

I don't consider the league cup a major trophy does anyone? I would trade about 6 league cups for playing in the champion's league for one year. Are you telling me that if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmigham we would be immune from criticism now.  So let me get this straight, because Arsenal have been closer to elite and more consistently good than liverpool for a long time, Liverpool and other fans should come on this website and constantly hammer Arsenal as failures. I don't see anyone pointing out the years they haven't made the CL,  or pointing  out  how long its been since they won the league. They haven't won very much in the last decade either. Like I said their last MAJOR trophy was one year after ours.

IN WHICH CASE YOU MUST BE F*****G BLIND MATE (but then again, you are trying to justify Arsenal's lack of silverware and refusal to consider it a failure for such a big club). Most threads about Liverpool descend into taunts about us no longer being a big club, reliance on past glories, failure to accept that our time as a major force is over etc etc etc etc etc etc. You may want to stick your head in the sand over Arsenal's lack of anything except being thereabouts (again) but that will obviously blind you to the obvious fact that Liverpool are hammered pretty much constantly by all and sundry. Even this season there are comments about punching above our weight and how it's going to go horribly wrong at some stage.

Arsenal have choked so many times over the years it's untrue. You have a club that is owned by three billionaires and yet time and again you find reasons to justify their lack of big spending and are happy to swallow the load that Wenger jacks off into your collective mouths about how he won't be held to ransom by players, pay over the odds or succumb to panic buying just to remain competitive and have a sexy looking spread sheet to hand.

You can play all the lovely football you want, but at the end of the day, the vast majority of fans want a trip to Wembley and the chance to sing "We are the Champions"

Ok, nice imagery with Wenger playing the flute solo in our mouths, I like a good turn of phrase but you are no Byron. By the way a significant portion of Arsenal fans aren't happy with Wenger and want him out. I just find it funny that you call us failures and then say that you would love a top 4 finish. So you would love to fail like Arsenal as opposed to failing like Liverpool. If we are failures your just as big if not bigger failures. The season is not over and Arsenal are going to Wembley, did you not get the memo it was in all the papers.

Forgive me but I'm old enough to remember when Wembley was reserved for the final of a competition (but I'll excuse your flippancy, you are under the cosh a bit old boy). However, by that extension, should Arsenal lose their semi final match would you still consider the season a success because you'd had a trip to Wembley?

As for "failing" like Arsenal, given our former glory and subesequent fall from grace, I'd love Liverpool to get back into the top four but where we differ is that fact that I wouldn't be happy just maintaining that position, I would want to see significant advances made towards achieving the ultimate goal. Still, maybe that means I'm just willing to aim that bit higher than your lot, m'man

#daretodreambaby

[CFCNick]

I don't consider the league cup a major trophy does anyone? I would trade about 6 league cups for playing in the champion's league for one year. Are you telling me that if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmigham we would be immune from criticism now.  So let me get this straight, because Arsenal have been closer to elite and more consistently good than liverpool for a long time, Liverpool and other fans should come on this website and constantly hammer Arsenal as failures. I don't see anyone pointing out the years they haven't made the CL,  or pointing  out  how long its been since they won the league. They haven't won very much in the last decade either. Like I said their last MAJOR trophy was one year after ours.

I'm guessing the FA, Football League and UEFA. That's why the winners earn a place in Europe.

Between last season and 06 (when Wigan made the final) it's been a really competitive cup. The 07, 08, 09, 10, 11 & 12 finals were good viewing for neutrals.

[socal1976]

Dave, I did a post on the first page of this thread that stated quite clearly that if we don't lift the cup that this season will be a failure. It is a golden opportunity that can not be wasted. But I am not taking anything for granted as these lower ranked teams fight like the devil in these ties as City can attest to.

[socal1976]

I don't consider the league cup a major trophy does anyone? I would trade about 6 league cups for playing in the champion's league for one year. Are you telling me that if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmigham we would be immune from criticism now.  So let me get this straight, because Arsenal have been closer to elite and more consistently good than liverpool for a long time, Liverpool and other fans should come on this website and constantly hammer Arsenal as failures. I don't see anyone pointing out the years they haven't made the CL,  or pointing  out  how long its been since they won the league. They haven't won very much in the last decade either. Like I said their last MAJOR trophy was one year after ours.

I'm guessing the FA, Football League and UEFA. That's why the winners earn a place in Europe.

Between last season and 06 (when Wigan made the final) it's been a really competitive cup. The 07, 08, 09, 10, 11 & 12 finals were good viewing for neutrals.

Sorry, don't care much for the Europa league either. The league cup isn't really a reflection of how good you are as a club since virtually every big club runs out a bunch of reserves and youth players. A big team could lose in the early rounds without ever having their stars see the field. Yes there is a little of that with the FA cup as well but it is taken more seriously by the big clubs and is more prestigious. Like I said if Arsenal had won against Birmingham would that have some how made them successful during that period. I still wouldn't trade any number of league cups for the Champion's league. No big star in Europe says hey I want to go to such and such club they won the league cup.

[Guest]

I don't consider the league cup a major trophy does anyone? I would trade about 6 league cups for playing in the champion's league for one year. Are you telling me that if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmigham we would be immune from criticism now.  So let me get this straight, because Arsenal have been closer to elite and more consistently good than liverpool for a long time, Liverpool and other fans should come on this website and constantly hammer Arsenal as failures. I don't see anyone pointing out the years they haven't made the CL,  or pointing  out  how long its been since they won the league. They haven't won very much in the last decade either. Like I said their last MAJOR trophy was one year after ours.

I'm guessing the FA, Football League and UEFA. That's why the winners earn a place in Europe.

Between last season and 06 (when Wigan made the final) it's been a really competitive cup. The 07, 08, 09, 10, 11 & 12 finals were good viewing for neutrals.

Sorry, don't care much for the Europa league either. The league cup isn't really a reflection of how good you are as a club since virtually every big club runs out a bunch of reserves and youth players. A big team could lose in the early rounds without ever having their stars see the field. Yes there is a little of that with the FA cup as well but it is taken more seriously by the big clubs and is more prestigious. Like I said if Arsenal had won against Birmingham would that have some how made them successful during that period. I still wouldn't trade any number of league cups for the Champion's league. No big star in Europe says hey I want to go to such and such club they won the league cup.

And not many fans sit around misty eyed in the pub joyfully saying, "Hey, remember when we finished top four again, failed win the Champions League or any silverware...great days!"

[Stella]

I don't consider the league cup a major trophy does anyone? I would trade about 6 league cups for playing in the champion's league for one year. Are you telling me that if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmigham we would be immune from criticism now.  So let me get this straight, because Arsenal have been closer to elite and more consistently good than liverpool for a long time, Liverpool and other fans should come on this website and constantly hammer Arsenal as failures. I don't see anyone pointing out the years they haven't made the CL,  or pointing  out  how long its been since they won the league. They haven't won very much in the last decade either. Like I said their last MAJOR trophy was one year after ours.

I'm guessing the FA, Football League and UEFA. That's why the winners earn a place in Europe.

Between last season and 06 (when Wigan made the final) it's been a really competitive cup. The 07, 08, 09, 10, 11 & 12 finals were good viewing for neutrals.

Sorry, don't care much for the Europa league either. The league cup isn't really a reflection of how good you are as a club since virtually every big club runs out a bunch of reserves and youth players. A big team could lose in the early rounds without ever having their stars see the field. Yes there is a little of that with the FA cup as well but it is taken more seriously by the big clubs and is more prestigious. Like I said if Arsenal had won against Birmingham would that have some how made them successful during that period. I still wouldn't trade any number of league cups for the Champion's league. No big star in Europe says hey I want to go to such and such club they won the league cup.

I remember Fergie saying his league cup win in 2006 gave his young players a lift for the next season. The rest as they say is history. Never dismiss a cup win.

[socal1976]

No it is a nice trophy to win Stella. But I don't think of it as that good of an indicator of who is or isn't one of the best teams in the country. After it is done you don't get to participate in a cash cow tournament like the Champions league playing against the best teams in Europe either. Would you trade a league cup for a Champion's league berth, I wouldn't.

[CFCNick]

No it is a nice trophy to win Stella. But I don't think of it as that good of an indicator of who is or isn't one of the best teams in the country. After it is done you don't get to participate in a cash cow tournament like the Champions league playing against the best teams in Europe either. Would you trade a league cup for a Champion's league berth, I wouldn't.

You're a fool socal. If Arsenal beat Birmingham and lifted the cup the players would have winning experience. They would have pursued more trophies harder than they have and probably won something else. Finishing 4th is nice but nothing gives inexperienced players a push like tasting sweet silver.

The 2005 League Cup was 9/10 of the Chelsea squads first trophy. It helped us push on and beat out Arsenal for the Premier League title.

[socal1976]

No it is a nice trophy to win Stella. But I don't think of it as that good of an indicator of who is or isn't one of the best teams in the country. After it is done you don't get to participate in a cash cow tournament like the Champions league playing against the best teams in Europe either. Would you trade a league cup for a Champion's league berth, I wouldn't.

You're a fool socal. If Arsenal beat Birmingham and lifted the cup the players would have winning experience. They would have pursued more trophies harder than they have and probably won something else. Finishing 4th is nice but nothing gives inexperienced players a push like tasting sweet silver.

The 2005 League Cup was 9/10 of the Chelsea squads first trophy. It helped us push on and beat out Arsenal for the Premier League title.  

Please refrain from name calling Nick I don't resort to those tactics with you when having a conversation. Do you think playing in the CL's with the best clubs in the world against munich, juve, real, and barca is any less of an experience and leads less to the development as a team? If you want to get better as a team I think playing the elite will make you better faster than the intrinsic value of winning a league cup. Like I said no star player in Europe is like I want to go and play for that club they won the English league cup. Also if you win the league cup, it is not a gift that keeps on giving you don't get a whole season worth of matches or at least 6 quality group games against elite teams the following. I would rather have the CL qualification over the league cup anyday of the week and twice on sunday. What do I care about silverware? Do you think if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmingham that this would have silenced the critics today or made the club more respected globally?

[CFCNick]

Yes. It would have pushed them on to win something else. Losing to the elite is more damaging than experiencing winning a trophy.

[hampo17]

This is the problem with the modern football. Fans are happy with winning sod all, qualifying for the champions league and winning nothing. I was brought up believing football is about trophies, I would love my team to win a trophy and celebrated the cup win against Cardiff like any other.

You don't get 6 quality group games against the elite in the Champions League either by the way, you're kidding yourself if you believe that.

[Duty281]

No it is a nice trophy to win Stella. But I don't think of it as that good of an indicator of who is or isn't one of the best teams in the country. After it is done you don't get to participate in a cash cow tournament like the Champions league playing against the best teams in Europe either. Would you trade a league cup for a Champion's league berth, I wouldn't.

You're a fool socal. If Arsenal beat Birmingham and lifted the cup the players would have winning experience. They would have pursued more trophies harder than they have and probably won something else. Finishing 4th is nice but nothing gives inexperienced players a push like tasting sweet silver.

The 2005 League Cup was 9/10 of the Chelsea squads first trophy. It helped us push on and beat out Arsenal for the Premier League title.  

Please refrain from name calling Nick I don't resort to those tactics with you when having a conversation. Do you think playing in the CL's with the best clubs in the world against munich, juve, real, and barca is any less of an experience and leads less to the development as a team? If you want to get better as a team I think playing the elite will make you better faster than the intrinsic value of winning a league cup. Like I said no star player in Europe is like I want to go and play for that club they won the English league cup. Also if you win the league cup, it is not a gift that keeps on giving you don't get a whole season worth of matches or at least 6 quality group games against elite teams the following. I would rather have the CL qualification over the league cup anyday of the week and twice on sunday. What do I care about silverware? Do you think if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmingham that this would have silenced the critics today or made the club more respected globally?

I thought you said if Arsenal didn't win the FA Cup then this season would be failure?

More hypocrisy than Ed Miliband.

[Guest]

This is the problem with the modern football. Fans are happy with winning sod all, qualifying for the champions league and winning nothing. I was brought up believing football is about trophies, I would love my team to win a trophy and celebrated the cup win against Cardiff like any other.

You don't get 6 quality group games against the elite in the Champions League either by the way, you're kidding yourself if you believe that.

Couldn't care less if was after extra time and pens, I carried my little girl on my shoulders and danced about the place with a grin as wide as the Mersey....and so close to doing it again in the FA Cup but anyone who says trophies don't mean sh!t is a liar....or worse, a bloody fool.

[socal1976]

No it is a nice trophy to win Stella. But I don't think of it as that good of an indicator of who is or isn't one of the best teams in the country. After it is done you don't get to participate in a cash cow tournament like the Champions league playing against the best teams in Europe either. Would you trade a league cup for a Champion's league berth, I wouldn't.

You're a fool socal. If Arsenal beat Birmingham and lifted the cup the players would have winning experience. They would have pursued more trophies harder than they have and probably won something else. Finishing 4th is nice but nothing gives inexperienced players a push like tasting sweet silver.

The 2005 League Cup was 9/10 of the Chelsea squads first trophy. It helped us push on and beat out Arsenal for the Premier League title.  

Please refrain from name calling Nick I don't resort to those tactics with you when having a conversation. Do you think playing in the CL's with the best clubs in the world against munich, juve, real, and barca is any less of an experience and leads less to the development as a team? If you want to get better as a team I think playing the elite will make you better faster than the intrinsic value of winning a league cup. Like I said no star player in Europe is like I want to go and play for that club they won the English league cup. Also if you win the league cup, it is not a gift that keeps on giving you don't get a whole season worth of matches or at least 6 quality group games against elite teams the following. I would rather have the CL qualification over the league cup anyday of the week and twice on sunday. What do I care about silverware? Do you think if Arsenal won the league cup against Birmingham that this would have silenced the critics today or made the club more respected globally?

I thought you said if Arsenal didn't win the FA Cup then this season would be failure?

More hypocrisy than Ed Miliband.

Yes I said that, not all silverware is the same, I think they give a trophy for the Emirates cup in the preseason. My point is in relation to the league cup. I said it and will stand by it. Between the league cup and the CL I want the CL spot.

[socal1976]

And I also said and stood by it that if Arsenal do both finish top and win the fa cup this season will be success. If they fail on either account after spending 43 million on Ozil it will be a failed campaign.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Of your injuries:

Wilshere kicked Agger, Diaby is worse than Wilshere for injuries, Kallstrom was injured before his move, Ramsey and Walcott were both definitely not kicked to injury, Ozil did his hamstring. So maybe 3 of the 9 could have been injured thanks to this Stoke like "playbook". If you're gonna come at me with your facts then learn to read.

The point you'll fall back on, I'm sure, is the middle one about youth (even though you seem to call it on not knowing when to avoid tackles). How many of those can be considered inexperienced, young players? Sanogo, surely? Ramsey, Gibbs n Walcott have been around long enough now to be past this immaturity, Walcott and Gibbs are 24 so are past the young days.

When youve got no centre backs, no wingers and no striker then I'll have sympathy, but as you undoubtedly didnt notice West Ham's injury problems this year then I'll be happy to let you know that since we had our major "crisis" you have since taken our Head of Sports Science http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/15/arsenal-head-sport-science-west-ham

Funny, you claimed that Arsenal had no injury crisis seems like the guy who wrote this article disagreed and mentions said crisis. If you are going to PMS like HH there is no point in talking to you.

Hahahaha PMS? Brilliant! And the fact HE said it was a crisis and I didnt means your point lacks credence.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

PS if you bothered to read my post you would see that I cite a number of different reasons that "could" be the cause of the recent injury troubles at Arsenal. The reasons could be to poor training, the nature of Arsenal's players, the fact that they play young players in intense schedules more often than big clubs, and the Stoke playbook. No where do I put it down to them solely or principally having the injuries due to Stoke playbook.

Ive read your posts, I suggest you read it again as your rage at everyone kicking Arsenal players has clearly shrouded your point. Its wholly weighted towards physical nature and kicking.

And please try not to patronise me, its ugly. Your smug nature keeps popping out, doesnt it

[Duty281]

And I also said and stood by it that if Arsenal do both finish top and win the fa cup this season will be success. If they fail on either account after spending 43 million on Ozil it will be a failed campaign.

Well if Arsenal somehow finish top, I think the FA Cup becomes rather irrelevant. Although a double would be nice, back to the old days.

[socal1976]

And I also said and stood by it that if Arsenal do both finish top and win the fa cup this season will be success. If they fail on either account after spending 43 million on Ozil it will be a failed campaign.

Well if Arsenal somehow finish top, I think the FA Cup becomes rather irrelevant. Although a double would be nice, back to the old days.

Sorry typed it out on my phone so you might not like my amendment. Top 4 and FA cup would be a successful season in my book.

[socal1976]

PS if you bothered to read my post you would see that I cite a number of different reasons that "could" be the cause of the recent injury troubles at Arsenal. The reasons could be to poor training, the nature of Arsenal's players, the fact that they play young players in intense schedules more often than big clubs, and the Stoke playbook. No where do I put it down to them solely or principally having the injuries due to Stoke playbook.

Ive read your posts, I suggest you read it again as your rage at everyone kicking Arsenal players has clearly shrouded your point. Its wholly weighted towards physical nature and kicking.

And please try not to patronise me, its ugly. Your smug nature keeps popping out, doesnt it

I do not rage, in a measured tone I basically state numerous reasons for the injuries that could be factors. I actually don't have the exact right answer and wouldn't be surprised if all of them along with just dumb bad luck is playing a role. I am not patronizing you but instead taking exception to what you posted on another thread that oh Arsenal didn't have an injury crisis, or particularly bad luck with injuries. West Ham I agree has had a real tough time about it as well. Of the top teams though I can't think of another team that has quite as many bad and lengthy injuries. I don't want to fight with you Dolph, I disagreed big time with that statement you made, if I angered you I am sorry.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Right I'm gonna propose a hyperthetical situation here

Arsenal lose to Wigan in the FA Cup Semi Final
They finish 4th in the league behind City, Chelsea and Liverpool

Do you think it'd be time to maybe explore other options than Wenger?

Because for me, if you don't win the cup this year, well their is something seriously seriously wrong with the mentality at Arsenal (and by that I mean in games not like the top four thing I can accept that to a point)

[socal1976]

Right I'm gonna propose a hyperthetical situation here

Arsenal lose to Wigan in the FA Cup Semi Final
They finish 4th in the league behind City, Chelsea and Liverpool

Do you think it'd be time to maybe explore other options than Wenger?

Because for me, if you don't win the cup this year, well their is something seriously seriously wrong with the mentality at Arsenal (and by that I mean in games not like the top four thing I can accept that to a point)

To be honest I think it won't be easy to replace Wenger after 17 years. Unless we find a really top guy who is available we will lose players to wherever Wenger moves to and players like Ozil and many others view him extremely highly. I agree it will be a failed campaign a failed season if we don't do both

1. Qualify for champion's league (at least qualification)

AND

2. Win the FA cup

If Arsenal had someone like Klopp lined up or someone else who is a really big name I would say no to your question Olly, unless someone else huge was a done deal. If we fail to win the cup and qualify for your CL I would probably be among the minority of fans who would want to see him stay. The club is bigger than anyone including a giant like Wenger. But that is the whole point in that there are not many managers that could do better in my opinion. And in the transition you would be giving up a lot. Many signings wouldn't want to come if the situation looked unstable, player we already have might be looking to move etc. But frankly, I think he will resign if he loses the cup that is my gut instinct from what I have been reading on the subject. I think he will be 65 years old and he doesn't like to be second guessed or continually criticized and questioned. And there will be a Spanish Inquisition type hellstorm if he doesn't win. The guy has all the money in the world and he knows he could land another big job if he wanted it, why stick around when nearly half or if they lose the cup more than half the fans want you to go and the media is out for your blood?

[CFCNick]

I heard from a German football pundit leading up to the UCL final last season that Klopp won't leave the Bundesliga. He's an incredibly smart man and extremely articulate, in German. His English isn't quite good enough for him to command a dressing room like he does in Dortmund.

Talking of possible hirings I really hope Guus doesn't go to Spurs. He's too highly thought of amongst Chelsea fans I don't know what reaction he'd get at Stamford Bridge.

[socal1976]

So that is the issue Nick if not Wenger than who. Who would be able to pull transfers at a time that Arsenal is ready to buy like Arsene? Do you give it to Bould? That might help you retain most of the current guys but could he go out and get new world class players off the bat? Players like stability and a manager with a CV and reputation, and despite all the angry denunciations even among Arsenal fans online and in the media, Wenger has that in spades. It was crucial to prying Ozil from Madrid. It would unsettle the current stars that we have. And hurt us in getting new talent unless you get a Jose type, a Klopp type, an Ancelotti, a Guardiola and there aren't too many guys out there like that. A club like Arsenal to continue with their plans would require a top ten manager in the world, and those guys aren't readily available. That is why I come down on the side of keeping him and letting him finish with his plans even if they take a long time to come to fruition or don't at all. He has been huge for the club and we aren't Spurs who trade Managers like bar whores trade boyfriends.

[CFCNick]

What about Joachim Loew?

[socal1976]

I don't know Nick that might not be a bad shout. Again let me be clear this is if Arsenal flop badly and is just hypo, I am generally strongly in his favor. But Low is a guy whose whole experience has been for the most part in the national team ranks. It is a different animal running a big club, not necessarily more pressure it is just different. Like I said if we are going to replace Wenger because he flops terribly or doesn't want the job anymore than I would want someone really great. Wenger is still a big manager and I want a big manager in his place, I don't want our version of Tim Sherwood with all due respect to Bould he could eventually do a job there but I would want someone who could come in and bring his own credentials as a big manager into the job.

[socal1976]

Interesting there are some rumors about the future.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-eyeing-roberto-martinez-arsene-3240164

So maybe it is Roberto as the heir apparent. That is a good shout as well, he already has won a FA cup. But still not a proven big club manager. But young and likes to play football the Arsenal way.

[CFCNick]

Just saw the Martinez story on the back page of the Star on Sky Sports News.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

SoCal, I think Arsenal have a small amount of bad luck with injuries, but my honest feeling is it Wenger's fault for not strengthening the squad properly. The options in the squad are just not strong enough, and whilst Ozil was a good signing, it was money that should have been spent earlier and in more positions.

However, I don't think theres a man to replace Wenger now or that he needs replacing. If they finished 5th (somehow) and lost the FA Cup, I'd still keep him. Hes a fantastic manager, absolutely fantastic. It isnt time yet, and hes doing it pretty much perfectly. The one problem is his transfer weakness, but every manager in this league has weaknesses.

[socal1976]

I agree Dolph, even if they finished 5th and didn't win the cup I would want to keep him as well. His problem in transfers is that he likes a bargain too much, sometimes it works out and sometimes it leaves him searching for the deal that is not out there. He won't overpay, which is both a good and a bad thing to have in the transfer market. The reason I went through this hypo was because I think he himself wouldn't want it anymore judging from the things he was saying.

I disagree on Ozil, arsenal has depth, they were hurt by losing key players and a lot of players in their attack at the same time. He should of bought Ozil and spent 30 million on a striker. Other than that we didn't need and don't need to improve half a dozen positions or pull a spurs and spend 100 million with one or two good buys, and a bunch of flops in those buys. When you buy 4, 5, 6, 7 players there is a problem in unsettling your side and incorporating these players.

[Champagne_Socialist]

I agree Dolph, even if they finished 5th and didn't win the cup I would want to keep him as well. His problem in transfers is that he likes a bargain too much, sometimes it works out and sometimes it leaves him searching for the deal that is not out there. He won't overpay, which is both a good and a bad thing to have in the transfer market. The reason I went through this hypo was because I think he himself wouldn't want it anymore judging from the things he was saying.

I disagree on Ozil, arsenal has depth, they were hurt by losing key players and a lot of players in their attack at the same time. He should of bought Ozil and spent 30 million on a striker. Other than that we didn't need and don't need to improve half a dozen positions or pull a spurs and spend 100 million with one or two good buys, and a bunch of flops in those buys. When you buy 4, 5, 6, 7 players there is a problem in unsettling your side and incorporating these players.

I think we have the most depth in midfield in the EPL and probably the 2nd most depth in defence behind Chelsea.
Problem we have is that we have 1 striker. Wenger tried to buy Higuin but got outbid and then bid a club record for Suarez (2 times) but Loserpool rejected it.

Arteta, Flamini, Ozil, Ramsey, Wilshere, Ox, Walcott, Podolski, Kallstrom, Gnarby, Rosicky, Cazorla

I can't think of another EPl team with as much depth and quality as the Arsenal midfield, possibly Man city are equal to arsenal's midfield but that is just 1 team.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I didnt mean he should buy Ozil, but he should have spent the same money elsewhere. I think you miss a really true quality natural central midfielder and the striking depth is a joke. The defence could do with some clean up in the summer too, maybe nothing more than options

[Duty281]

Bendtner on the way out then?

Urgent need for a striker or two in the summer if that happens.

And I would agree that some depth in the defence is also required.

[Guest]

Bendtner was told a while ago, he could leave when his contract expired at the end of the season..so they knew that,but yeah they do need more firepower.

[socal1976]

CS, I do think he should of paid the extra 5-7 million pounds to get Higuain. I think we offered 25 million and he was bought for 32.5. In retrospect that for me would have won us the league. Gonzalo to me was well worth that money a guy who scored 100 goals at Madrid while sharing striking duties. This I think is a valid criticism of wenger in that maybe he won't swerve from his valuation. Also it is possible that Madrid wouldn't sell us both.

[socal1976]

I would like Arsene to do what he can to get sagna to stay. If vermalen and sagna stay I think we have good depth at defense. We have four strong fullbacks and three good center backs. To me I would rather have sagna and vermalen if they leave we will have to strengthen. The striker position is where we need to strengthen and maybe at holding midfielder and a couple of defenders if people leave

[Champagne_Socialist]

I would like Arsene to do what he can to get sagna to stay. If vermalen and sagna stay I think we have good depth at defense. We have four strong fullbacks and three good center backs. To me I would rather have sagna and vermalen if they leave we will have to strengthen. The striker position is where we need to strengthen and maybe at holding midfielder and a couple of defenders if people leave

We have good depth in defence, 3 very strong full backs and also a younger full back who has internatioal and champions league experience. Then we have 3 strong centre backs.

[Guest]

CS, I do think he should of paid the extra 5-7 million pounds to get Higuain. I think we offered 25 million and he was bought for 32.5. In retrospect that for me would have won us the league. Gonzalo to me was well worth that money a guy who scored 100 goals at Madrid while sharing striking duties. This I think is a valid criticism of wenger in that maybe he won't swerve from his valuation. Also it is possible that Madrid wouldn't sell us both.

Higuain would of banged 25 by now, i have no doubts in my mind, natural predator & goal scorer. wouldn't of gone missing either against the big sides, like giroud has done - which has ultimately cost you major points in the end.

huge summer for arsene, ozil was the foundation or the cake, now it's time to put the icing on top & get serious. no more excuses, no more february/march meltdowns or crying about injuries ruining another season. win the f.a cup, showcase the club is winning trophies now & that will be just the incentive for the big players to come.

[Guest]

It's been a huge summer for Wenger for the past half a decade.

Top players won't move to Arsenal because they won their domestic cup.

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