England Selection Pool

So, England are starting to blood their squad properly. SL and team seem to be developing some good options now where we can have equally good players coming off the bench and making a positive impact.
On another thread people have discussed the England injury list - how many of those would walk back into the current starting 15? Most would be fighting for a bench spot I suspect - untill injury or form suggests otherwise.

LH - Marler, Mako, Corbis - Marler is playing the best ive seen him in an England shirt, Mako has only really had bench time but offers loads in open play. Corbis, an excellent scrummager but really has to proove himself again I suspect.
Hooker - Hartley, Youngs - Hartley has pushed himself into starting spot - was a bit firey against Welsh (perhaps hasnt banished all deamods), Youngs is good impact sub and very positive impact as long as he hits man in lineouts. We need to develop another 3rd option.
TH - Cole, Wilson, Thomas - Cole now injured needs R&R, I look forward to him coming back fit and ready - Wilson has put in 2 massive shifts and well deserves his starting spot - these 2 will be the cornerstone for England in 2015. Thomas, dispite critiscism hasnt let anyone down for the 20min hes had across 2 games. Perhaps he deserves more time with the EPS.
Locks - Lawes and Launchbury, both excellent in the 6N so far. Attwood is making a real impact too when he comes on which is fantastic. Parling still to come back is a quality option but he is going to have to fight for that bench spot.
Flank - Robshaw and Wood both seem to work well together. Robshaw linking well with the backs, I would like Wood to be a little bit more physical at the breakdown but he's not that sort of player. Tom Johnston - I am still not convinced about - I see him still as the person that puts in 110% but ultimately still fails type of person.
No.8 - Morgan and Billy V - 2 excellent no.8's both ball carriers and really shows what we were missing last year! Perhaps we need to give time to a 3rd option to cover.

Feelings on the backs to follow.

LH - Marler, Mako, Corbis - Marler is playing the best ive seen him in an England shirt, Mako has only really had bench time but offers loads in open play. Corbis, an excellent scrummager but really has to proove himself again I suspect.

Hooker - Hartley, Youngs - Hartley has pushed himself into starting spot - was a bit firey against Welsh (perhaps hasnt banished all deamods), Youngs is good impact sub and very positive impact as long as he hits man in lineouts. We need to develop another 3rd option.

TH - Cole, Wilson, Thomas - Cole now injured needs R&R, I look forward to him coming back fit and ready - Wilson has put in 2 massive shifts and well deserves his starting spot - these 2 will be the cornerstone for England in 2015. Thomas, dispite critiscism hasnt let anyone down for the 20min hes had across 2 games. Perhaps he deserves more time with the EPS.

Locks - Lawes and Launchbury, both excellent in the 6N so far. Attwood is making a real impact too when he comes on which is fantastic. Parling still to come back is a quality option but he is going to have to fight for that bench spot.

Flank - Robshaw and Wood both seem to work well together. Robshaw linking well with the backs, I would like Wood to be a little bit more physical at the breakdown but he's not that sort of player. Tom Johnston - I am still not convinced about - I see him still as the person that puts in 110% but ultimately still fails type of person.

No.8 - Morgan and Billy V - 2 excellent no.8's both ball carriers and really shows what we were missing last year! Perhaps we need to give time to a 3rd option to cover.

Corbs is a real concern. I have increasing doubts that he will come back and be a long term option due to constant injuries. MArler has been excellent however and its his spot to lose now even if Corbs is fit

Parling should not even be in the Saxons when he comes back. With players like Kruis, Kitchener, Slater, Barrow etc etc he not good enough

Tom Johnson needs to be moved on. Great club player just not an international.

At 8 we have Dickinson and Ewers.

Scrum half - Danny Care finally doing (being allowed to do) what he does for his club. Dickson does not impress and we need Ben youngs to re-find his zip and play with his old youthful exuberance.

Stand Off - significant improvements from the incumbent Owen farrell and a nailed on starter. Experience and form behind him an issue.

Centres - Still an issue. Lots of options but are we really any closer to deciding the preferred pairing. For now 36 and Burrell will take some shifting.

Wings - Nowell and May have not set the world alight, but they are the men in possession. Such a shame that injuries in the autumn denied us of a Yarde/Wade pairing. Ashton cannot be discounted.

Full Back - Brown is a man on fire, foden looking sharp on his comeback and Goode will not let us down.

I agree with most of that LT, I would have seriously disagreed with your comment about Goode.
However that game last week when he played 10 for Sarries made me think again, and recognise that there is a need for him in the squad.

The options at wing are great id everyone is fit.
What I'm really getting at now is that England are starting to get to the point where we can bring on a really high quality set of replacements.

Real Game changers like - Tuilagi, Corbisiero, Wade, B.Youngs (if finds form), Mako V, Billy V/Morgan (these 2 will rotate over the years), Wilson/Cole (rotation), Attwood etc.

Its a bright future.

I can't remember any time when there was a better conveyor of talent operating for England. We have a youthful squad with experience and skill, there's competition between equals all over the park. The emerging age group players look set to provide for the future. We have a management that appears capable of developing both the younger and more mature players to achieve their potential and giving them the necessary game time to prove themselves. I'm a very happy supporter right now.

Youngs should be carrying the bottles for hampstead IV's only.

Just because he didn't throw the Wales game away was due to him not being on the pitch long enough. If he can't hit a barn door for love or money then he shouldn't be on the pitch pure and simple. The last time a mighty mouse was an effective hooker was back in the day of Brian Moore and ave. weight in the pack was 15st per man. Its a different game now and hookers need to be the size of prior day props.

The guy has RWC villian written all over him.

Don't know about bottle carrying for Hampstead 4ths, but I would like to see Webber get a game with the first team this summer.

If Northampton are in the final of the Prem, opens up a starting berth against the BaaBaas and the first test, an ideal opportunity for Webber IMO, especially as Wilson will likely be at tighthead and Attwood at lock, will have familiarity with others in the front 5

OK Fa -
So your happy with Hartley then are you - ideally we need 3 or more players competing for a starting spot and bench cover.
Again - barring injury there are the 3 Quins hookers that have been in and out of the Saxons -
Ward, Grey, Buchanan.
There is George - but hes struggling to get a look in on the Sarries starting berth.
Then there are others like the young Luke Cowan-Dickie, who I've been very impressed with but he lacks experience in the seniors.
I'm hoping we wont drop down and go back to using the likes of Paice again!

Who would you rather have in T.Youngs place?

Quite right BaamBaam - I forgot about Webber

propdavid_london wrote:OK Fa -
So your happy with Hartley then are you - ideally we need 3 or more players competing for a starting spot and bench cover.  
Again - barring injury there are the 3 Quins hookers that have been in and out of the Saxons -
Ward, Grey, Buchanan.  
There is George - but hes struggling to get a look in on the Sarries starting berth.  
Then there are others like the young Luke Cowan-Dickie, who I've been very impressed with but he lacks experience in the seniors.  
I'm hoping we wont drop down and go back to using the likes of Paice again!

Who would you rather have in T.Youngs place?

A hooker's primary function is the scrum and throw the ball. Anything else is a bonus. You can do that and that alone and if you are consistent you are worth your weight in gold.

Its perhaps the 2nd most important position on the pitch outside of standoff. You simply can't have weakness there.

No matter how much gusto you have in the loose if you can't hit your men or are a weakling in the scrum then you are worthless and you can't make up for it.

If you are weak at set piece your entire game falls apart. Please see his cameos against NZ, FRA etc as examples. The only times he looks competant is when he plays with a big enough pack who are significantly superior to the rest (i.e. Leicester).

I completely agree with your summary of the role of a hooker FA. No dispute from me.
I just ask if you have T.Youngs out then you need to bring through another or even 2 guys that can step up.
I forgot Webber in my initial post and he could step up with time (although is also a bit shakey in the lineout).
So with Webber and Hartley who else would you push through to challenge the incumbents?

Prop David and Geordie Falcon, Can you tell me why Tom Johnson isn't a international standard Flanker? Be interested to hear your views on this!

Don't forget that Johnson genuinely covers every position in the back row, ( a natural open field 6 and set piece 8)

In a lot of positions the depth is coming along nicely.

The tight 5 is looking pretty strong, especially with Wilson returning well to add that depth at TH. Takes another player off the indispensables list in Cole and will hopefully push both to keep improving. With Marler playing so well Corbs absence is far less troubling as well. At TH I'd still like Brookes to get a go in the summer but shoving a ref may have put the brakes on that trial!

Currently the only guys I'd think of as indispensable are Robshaw, Care and Farrell.

Openside - Robshaw is well ahead of the chasing pack here to my eyes. Kvesic has struggled this season but still has the talent to kick on. Fraser is another with the talent but is sadly injured. Wallace is in a very different mould to Robshaw but could offer an interesting alternative. If Robshaw were injured at current I think our best bet may be moving Wood to seven, then my personal choice at 6 would be Garvey or Haskell. Can't see Lancaster picking the later two though.

SH - Care is really dictating the tempo of our game and added a huge amount to our attack. Dickson and Wigglesworth are both solid at the basics but can't provide the same threat as Care or dictate the game like him. We really need Youngs to find his form and consistency to add depth here. As an outside shout I'd like to see Robson given a go at some point.

FH - Farrell has developed his game really well and definitely deserves that starting shirt. Below him though Ford is a huge talent but yet untried at International level. If Burns could add some more composure to his game he'd be back in the frame as well. Cipriani of course is playing stronger than he has for a while and may well sneak onto the NZ tour.

I think most of us are quite happy at the moment with the first choice XV / 23 bar maybe one or two spots, but the squad depth seems to be a bit patchy.

Front 5 generally we seem to have good starters and solid back-up for each role. A third hooker with more international game time would be good.

8 - Billy V and Morgan are both very good at what they do.

Only area of concern for me in the forwards is at flanker. Robshaw and Wood have the starting positions nailed down, but back up is thin on the ground. Agreee with the suggestion that in Robshaw's absence, it is likely that Wood will cover 7, but we don't have an obvious choice as the next best blindside. Agree with the other comments about Tom Johnson - good player but perhaps, as with Dowson, slightly below the level needed to excel in Test rugby. I still think there is a role for Haskell in the squad come RWC time.

Backs are a little more of a concern:

Full back is looking good with Brown in outstanding form, Foden being a classy player (would like him back on the bench in the 23 jersey) and Goode being good enough. Add in Watson and perhaps even Nowell and we have plenty of cover.

Wings - More of an issue in that we know May and Nowell are really about 4th and 5th choices, but that those considered ahead of them are not proven (Yarde, Wade) or have been out of form at international level for some time (Ashton). Both May and Nowell have been good in part, poor in part, but both have shown some promise as international players even if in Nowell's case he was probably brought through too soon.

Centres - Well, Burrell has answered one question (can we cover 13 if Manu is injured), and his form plus 12trees performance against Wales has given Lancaster and his fellow coaches and selectors a conundrum once Tuillagi is fit. Looks like Barritt's time may be over unless he can rediscover the handling and kicking skills he supposedly had in South Africa, while Eastmond remains unproven at this level.

Fly half - Farrell has cemented himself into the starting jersey, and this year seems to have put to rest most of the criticixms about his inability to run a ball or a backline. With Flood's imminent move to France, we are left short of experience behind - I assume Cipriani or perhaps Andy Goode would be the next most capped English 10 in the league, but I think Cips still has some way to go to get back into the reckoning while the coaches will be looking to give Ford and/or Burns more game time.

Scrum half - Care is finally playing for England like he does for Quins, and will keep the jersey as long as he keeps his form. Dickson for me just seems to be a solid pro but not someone to inspire great confidence amongst the fans, while Youngs is clearly more similar in style to Care but needs to get his mojo back.