Official RBS Player of the Championship

First topic message reminder :

So the official shortlist has been released and its a public vote, which will close on Wednesday night. Presumably with the winner being announced later in the week. The question is, will BODs adoring public vote him player of the tournament despite not even being the best Irish player this year out of those on the list? I will add a poll to this with the nominees so 606v2 can vote their player of the Six Nations.

http://www.rbs6nations.com/RBSPlayerOfTheChampionship

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're still not seeing why people rate Brown then Guns? BOD has been a legend but he hasn't been the best centre let alone player.

Eh BOD is the only centre shortlisted for the player of the tournament? He offers so much more than any other centre in the tournament so rightly nominated.

Yes I rate Brown he had a great tournament but he isnt the only one who had a great tournament. His defense still needs work though as about half of England's conceded tries came through him.

fa0019 wrote:If BOD even got in team of the tournament it would be for sentimental reasons only.  Even worse would be for player of the year award.

Yawn, he was outstanding. Only centre to be nominated so it would be pretty stupid if he didnt get in the team of the tournament. Might be a shadow of his former self but still offers more than any other centre. Only Fofana and Davies come close but they both missed too much of the tournament. Burrell if he improves will also be up there.

He was nominated for sentimental reasons.

On a pure rugby perspective there were better OCs.

I can't see how this one can be all that close, really. The first qualification is probably that you should have played all five matches(which must be the only reason that O'Mahony isn't a candidate here). You then break down the individual contribution in those five games.

Huget had two games in which he was a match-winner, another couple in which he was good and industrious, but one where he was absolutely anonymous. Sexton had two magnificent matches, two very good ones, but one in which he was not only below his best, but where his personal contribution was directly responsible for a narrow loss. Brown was the Man of the Match in three of his side's fixtures and one of the best on the field in the fourth. His effort against France was generally extremely positive, notwithstanding his single defensive lapse in a back line stretched beyond repair. Improvement from last year really doesn't matter; in its own right, Brown's set of performances in 2014 was of a level consistently beyond anyone else's, which ought to be the only decisive factor for this accolade.

As for O'Driscoll - together with Gibson, Gerber, Sella and Horan, he is the best centre of my lifetime, but only sentiment could lead anyone to argue that he was among Ireland's top three performers of this championship, let alone the best individual from any country. Sexton, Healy and Trimble would certainly be ahead of him in my pecking order, Kearney would arguably be there as well and if O'Mahony had suited up against Italy, he would be one of the very few with an argument to dislodge the award from its rightful winner. BOD had a good tournament; for a man his age, possibly even a celestial one. However, one slightly embarrassing valedictory award is enough. Credit where it's due here.

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're still not seeing why people rate Brown then Guns? BOD has been a legend but he hasn't been the best centre let alone player.

Eh BOD is the only centre shortlisted for the player of the tournament? He offers so much more than any other centre in the tournament so rightly nominated.

Yes I rate Brown he had a great tournament but he isnt the only one who had a great tournament. His defense still needs work though as about half of England's conceded tries came through him.

He's there as he's just retired. Burrell was better overall.

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's there as he's just retired. Burrell was better overall.

What a load of nonsense. Such bitterness. BOD was outstanding.

fa0019 wrote:He was nominated for sentimental reasons.

On a pure rugby perspective there were better OCs.

Same old nonsense re BOD. Everyone writes him off after the Lions tour, he shows his class in the six nations, has a blistering tournament and is only lauded for sentimental reasons. Some real bitter people out there.

He was outstanding, did things in this championship that Burrell will never be able to do. I guarentee that.

Not bitter Guns, he just wasn't as good.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not bitter Guns, he just wasn't as good.

Of course you are bitter. You are claiming he is only shortlisted because he is retiring. Thats bitterness. He made the list on merit, just as he made the Lions tour on merit and got selected for Ireland on merit. Not sure what he has to do to be honest.

Be better than the other centres. I'm not not bitter as no one other than Brown should get the decision so who's on the shortlist doesn't affect it a great deal. He is there as he's retiring and he is one of the all time greats. I don't think I'm being too controversial with that statement.

Burrell.

Christ, when are the Irish going to get over BOD, yes he has been the best center in the NH for years and yes he will go down as a legend of the game, but FFS why can't people see that although he was decent this 6N he was far from the best in his position, it look's as though we are going to see another performance from the Irish on here as we did after the Lions tour if we are not careful.

To be fair LD I was in the Irish camp for that 1!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Be better than the other centres. I'm not not bitter as no one other than Brown should get the decision so who's on the shortlist doesn't affect it a great deal. He is there as he's retiring and he is one of the all time greats. I don't think I'm being too controversial with that statement.

Its a fairly pathetic comment. Maybe go have a look at his performances. Massive contribution in every game bar maybe the Scotland match. Also once again Brown was good but not as good as you claim. To be top try scorer in the tournament as an OH is quite special and hasnt been done since O'Gara did it in 2007. If Sexton was English for example he would be the clear favorite in the British press.

LordDowlais wrote:Christ, when are the Irish going to get over BOD, yes he has been the best center in the NH for years and yes he will go down as a legend of the game, but FFS why can't people see that although he was decent this 6N he was far from the best in his position, it look's as though we are going to see another performance from the Irish on here as we did after the Lions tour if we are not careful.

Pathetic. He was outstanding.

I think because he had been written off already post Lions tour it is very inconvenient for some people to actually admit that he had an outstanding tournament. Lots of sour grapes going around.

I agree GunsGerms, every game he played in this year he still looked the best Centre on the field.

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Be better than the other centres. I'm not not bitter as no one other than Brown should get the decision so who's on the shortlist doesn't affect it a great deal. He is there as he's retiring and he is one of the all time greats. I don't think I'm being too controversial with that statement.

Its a fairly pathetic comment. Maybe go have a look at his performances. Massive contribution in every game bar maybe the Scotland match. Also once again Brown was good but not as good as you claim. To be top try scorer in the tournament as an OH is quite special and hasnt been done since O'Gara did it in 2007. If Sexton was English for example he would be the clear favorite in the British press.

I've watched all the games and no need for the 'pathetic' comment stop being so protective.

Scrumpy wrote:I agree GunsGerms, every game he played in this year he still looked the best Centre on the field.

Exactly, this is why I find it so hard to understand how people are claiming that he is shortlisted only because he is retiring. Defies belief to be honest.

Guns, I accept your right to your partiality, but the Irish press regarded BOD as the least influential of all four of the starting centres in the Twickenham match. He was outstanding against Italy, very good against france and did what little he had to against Wales as well as you would expect in a match where tactically, he wasn't required to play Superman.

As I say, Brown was Man of the Match no fewer than three times this year (and joint top try scorer with Sexton). You rage about bitterness and then suggest, with no particular evidence, that Sexton is getting no credit from the English press because of his nationality. Your posts on this thread don't seem to be typical of you, in that they are ultra-defensive and verge on the boorish. I can be as thrilled as you about the overall result of the 2014 6N, while still acknowledging that the outstanding individual this year happened to wear a white shirt.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Guns, I accept your right to your partiality, but the Irish press regarded BOD as the least influential of all four of the starting centres in the Twickenham match. He was outstanding against Italy, very good against france and did what little he had to against Wales as well as you would expect in a match where tactically, he wasn't required to play Superman.

As I say, Brown was Man of the Match no fewer than three times this year (and joint top try scorer with Sexton). You rage about bitterness and then suggest, with no particular evidence, that Sexton is getting no credit from the English press because of his nationality. Your posts on this thread don't seem to be typical of you, in that they are ultra-defensive and verge on the boorish. I can be as thrilled as you about the overall result of the 2014 6N, while still acknowledging that the outstanding individual this year happened to wear a white shirt.

For every paper that gives one rating another gives a completely opposite one. I saw enough papers that rated BOD over Burrell to know that such ratings mean very little. Irish papers always give the losing team lower marks. On the context of the entire tournament BOD was much more influential in each game he played.

you are entitled to your oppinion but keep the personal comments to yourself or Ill ignore your comments.

Brown may well win the player of the tournament award but I dont think it will be the landslide some predict.

That's fine. Over the tournament as a whole, Burrell and BOD would be among the best three or four centres on view. I'm happy to say that.

It's a world away from suggesting that he deserves consideration as the player of the tournament, when he so clearly wasn't among the three best-performed or influential players from his own side.

Easy GunsGerms - criticise the issue, not the poster please.  

Guns n Germs,

i really cant understand your reaction here. Everyone one here has applauded Ireland as being worthy winners of the tournament. Everyone has acknowledgedd Burrell looked good in his first season of international rugby, that BOD had some excellent moments as did many other players.....but pretty much as one, everyone has agreed Brown is the player of the tournament.

Why is that so hard to go along with?

George Carlin wrote:Easy GunsGerms - criticise the issue, not the poster please.  

WTF?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Guns n Germs,

i really cant understand your reaction here. Everyone one here has applauded Ireland as being worthy winners of the tournament. Everyone has acknowledgedd Burrell looked good in his first season of international rugby, that BOD had some excellent moments as did many other players.....but pretty much as one, everyone has agreed Brown is the player of the tournament.

Why is that so hard to go along with?

Why do I have to agree with everyone? I have also said that Burrell was excellent before, that doesnt mean I have to agree that he was better than BOD. He wasnt IMO.

Claiming BOD has been nominated because he is retiring is just sour grapes. Sorry suck it up if you dont like it. He was outstanding.

GunsGerms wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Guns n Germs,

i really cant understand your reaction here. Everyone one here has applauded Ireland as being worthy winners of the tournament. Everyone has acknowledgedd Burrell looked good in his first season of international rugby, that BOD had some excellent moments as did many other players.....but pretty much as one, everyone has agreed Brown is the player of the tournament.

Why is that so hard to go along with?

Why do I have to agree with everyone? I have also said that Burrell was excellent before, that doesnt mean I have to agree that he was better than BOD. He wasnt IMO.

Claiming BOD has been nominated because he is retiring is just sour grapes. Sorry suck it up if you dont like it. He was outstanding.

 
Why is it sour grapes? I don't think BOD reached a brilliant sustained level throughout the tournament. If he wasn't retiring I don't think he would be there based purely on this tournament. Why is it you can have your opinion but i can't hold that one!

Of course you dont have to agree with everyone, and ill repeat 99% of 606 have recognised the performances of all manner of players from all teams including BOD (though i think Kearney had a better tournament than him).

Its just a curious one when in a rare occurance almost all of 606 is agreed on something yet you disagree. Your entitle to your opinion of course.

Sorry BOD was consistently outstanding in every game he played in except the first game v Scotland in which he was still better than his opposite number.

Its sour grapes that just because Burrell wasnt shortlisted BOD was because only because he is retiring? Why is it so hard to accept that the old timer defied all his critics once again and had an excellent tournament.

Inconvenient truth?

GunsGerms wrote:Sorry BOD was consistently outstanding in every game he played in except the first game v Scotland in which he was still better than his opposite number.

Its sour grapes that just because Burrell wasnt shortlisted BOD was because only because he is retiring. Why is it so hard to accpet that the old timer defied all his critics once again and had an excellent tournament.

Inconvenient truth?

Just not a truth but your opinion. I don't think think it overly matters who is shortlisted as Brown will win it. But the fact BOD is there is influenced by the fact it's his last 6N. He wasn't a standout player for me.

How many MOM's did BOD win?

GeordieFalcon wrote:How many MOM's did BOD win?

Two why?

7 1/2,

i wouldnt bother...its actually Guns whos portraying the sour grapes. Let him cry into his guiness over his beloved BOD....

How can I possibly be portraying sour grapes. BOD was nominated and rightly so. Not because he is retiring, not because Gatland dropped him on the Lions tour, not because of any reason but he had an outstanding tournament. Not hard to understand.

Cry over what exactly?

captain carrantuohil wrote:That's fine. Over the tournament as a whole, Burrell and BOD would be among the best three or four centres on view. I'm happy to say that.

It's a world away from suggesting that he deserves consideration as the player of the tournament, when he so clearly wasn't among the three best-performed or influential players from his own side.

Dont think anyone claimed he was player of the tournament. I suggested he should be in the team of the tournament.

Do you think he had a better tournament than Sexton, POM and Trimble??

As much as I think Mike Brown was the best player, it would be very, very funny if BOD won it. I hope that happens for the Trolling factor. Whilst I share the conviction that Brown was the best player in the tournament I've already voted several times for Trimble (because feck Mike Brown, you know?) and I think I'll throw a few votes in for BOD and all...

Nothing personal Mike. At least you look set to wrap up the 606v2 vote!    

This really shouldn't be a public vote should it?   

TopHat24/7 wrote:Do you think he had a better tournament than Sexton, POM and Trimble??

Sexton and Trimble were possibly our best players. POM was quiet enough v France and England and didnt play v Italy. He had two really great games but that wasnt enough to get nominated.

Notch wrote:As much as I think Mike Brown was the best player, it would be very, very funny if BOD won it. I hope that happens for the Trolling factor. Whilst I share the conviction that Brown was the best player in the tournament I've already voted several times for Trimble (because feck Mike Brown, you know?) and I think I'll throw a few votes in for BOD and all...

Nothing personal Mike. At least you look set to wrap up the 606v2 vote!    

This really shouldn't be a public vote should it?   

That's really not in the spirit of the award!

GunsGerms wrote:Its a toss up between Brown, Sexton, Huget and BOD. Huget was probably the best player, Brown the most improved and Sexton & BOD the most influential on winning the tournament so it could go to any of them really.

A toss-up for player of the tournament, including the name of O'Driscoll, does rather suggest that your opinion was/is that he is in the reckoning for the award. Wherever you may believe he stands among the centres of the tournament, that is stretching kindness a long way too far.

captain carrantuohil wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Its a toss up between Brown, Sexton, Huget and BOD. Huget was probably the best player, Brown the most improved and Sexton & BOD the most influential on winning the tournament so it could go to any of them really.

A toss-up for player of the tournament, including the name of O'Driscoll, does rather suggest that your opinion was/is that he is in the reckoning for the award. Wherever you may believe he stands among the centres of the tournament, that is stretching kindness a long way too far.

BOD will probably get lots of votes because unlike the nominations the overall award is a fan vote. I didnt say he was the best player. IMO he should be in the team of the championship and in a pool of 16 nominees or so is good value for his nomination. Actually winning the tournament also possibly carries some weight for these awards too. Ridiculous to claim he is nominated because he is retiring when he had an excellent tournament and was quite consistent throughout.

Huget impressed me more than anyone to be honest followed by Brown who is unquestionably the most improved player.

It's not ridicuolous at all. Off the top of my head I would say Lawes, Launchbury, Hartley, Best all performed better over the 4 games and were more important to their respective teams also and not included on the list. He had a good tournament but he didn't perform as consistently well as Burrell but I could make space in a team of the tournament if we switched Burrell to his club role of 12! I also don't think winning the tournament should have any bearing on which individual played best. We're not going to agree obviously so I'll leave it at that.

Lawes deserved to be nominated but that doesnt mean O'Driscoll didnt. Not sure about the others. Id say Lawes is more deserving than Warburton as is BOD.

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:If BOD even got in team of the tournament it would be for sentimental reasons only.  Even worse would be for player of the year award.

Yawn, he was outstanding. Only centre to be nominated so it would be pretty stupid if he didnt get in the team of the tournament. Might be a shadow of his former self but still offers more than any other centre. Only Fofana and Davies come close but they both missed too much of the tournament. Burrell if he improves will also be up there.

Davies? I am assuming he had a decent game vs Scotland but he was sh!te against England. Its not a reflection on his quality as a player its just he has come straight back in off a bad injury and looked every bit as rusty as you'd expect. Oh and Fofanna missed most of the championship too.

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:If BOD even got in team of the tournament it would be for sentimental reasons only.  Even worse would be for player of the year award.

Yawn, he was outstanding. Only centre to be nominated so it would be pretty stupid if he didnt get in the team of the tournament. Might be a shadow of his former self but still offers more than any other centre. Only Fofana and Davies come close but they both missed too much of the tournament. Burrell if he improves will also be up there.

Davies? I am assuming he had a decent game vs Scotland but he was sh!te against England. Its not a reflection on his quality as a player its just he has come straight back in off a bad injury and looked every bit as rusty as you'd expect.

Yes Im not saying in this tournament but in general in the NH.

Notch wrote:Yeah it's strange that O'Mahony didn't make the cut. My only thought is because it's based on statistical analysis and he didn't make as many yards and carries as some other backrows.

If based on stats, he missed the Italian game through injury and was taken off early against France (possibly not quite over his injury yet).

I'm bereft of ribs. Even now people begrudge Brown. Is it cuz he is skinny?

I gotta say I thought Huget was next on the list. Particularly as he played in a fairly pants side. BOD was good for an oldie but his smirk bothers me for some reason.

GunsGerms wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Do you think he had a better tournament than Sexton, POM and Trimble??

Sexton and Trimble were possibly our best players. POM was quiet enough v France and England and didnt play v Italy. He had two really great games but that wasnt enough to get nominated.

The RFU have a new analysis thingy going on stats who identified POM as Ireland's key performer in the England v Ireland game. Mike Brown was England's.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I'm bereft of ribs. Even now people begrudge Brown. Is it cuz he is skinny?

I gotta say I thought Huget was next on the list. Particularly as he played in a fairly pants side. BOD was good for an oldie but his smirk bothers me for some reason.

I wouldnt begrudge Brown at all if he won. I certainly wouldnt try and claim it was some sort of charity vote.

He isnt skinny either, he seems to have bulked up a fair bit.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Do you think he had a better tournament than Sexton, POM and Trimble??

Sexton and Trimble were possibly our best players. POM was quiet enough v France and England and didnt play v Italy. He had two really great games but that wasnt enough to get nominated.

The RFU have a new analysis thingy going on stats who identified POM as Ireland's key performer in the England v Ireland game. Mike Brown was England's.

I didnt think it was his best game caompared to the previous two, did you? That said he was still pretty good. Probably in our top five performers. He did miss the Italy game and was quiet v France as you say maybe still injured. He showed massive improvements this year and lots to be positive about.

Particularly given that SOB, Ferris and Copeland could all challenge the current back row for a place in the team.

LordDowlais wrote:yes he has been the best center in the NH for years and yes he will go down as a legend of the game, but FFS why can't people see that although he was decent this 6N he was far from the best in his position, it look's as though we are going to see another performance from the Irish on here as we did after the Lions tour if we are not careful.

Can we just be clear that Guns is not representative of all Irish on here. Your comments above are pretty much on the money - the Italian game was by far his best match, decent against England in defence and quiet against France. Was he player of the tournament. No.