What now for Bernard Hopkins?

Well it official now, Bernard Hopkins has made history by becoming the oldest ever world champion. I am just wondering what peoples opinions are on what this does for his overall standing in the sport and what next for him?

I think its fair to say that Bernard is almost certainly nailed on to be a Hall of Fame fighter, but does this win at the age of 46 push him up amongst the truly elites of the sport? Very few fighters in history can match his longetivity at the highest level. I realise Hopkins isnt everyones cup of tea, and never has been, but I have always had alot of respect for him as a fighter who was something of a throwback to the byegone eras of boxing. A modern day Archie Moore if you will, and someone who put himself on the boxing map by doing it the hard way. Its also worth considering that he has been the underdog now in the majority of his biggest fights.

I also feel he has been perhaps a tad unfortunate in the sport in having many decisions go against him, often at times seeming to be the man the sport wanted rid of in many ways. I had him winning one of the Taylor fights, the Calzaghe fight and the first Pascal fight but was impressed that he wasnt deterred by the results going against him and continued to battle.

Despite this recent acheivement, I would not find room for him amongst my top lightheavyweights and feel his best work was at middleweight where he is easily a top ten. But in overall standings what do people feel this does for him? Has he earned the right to an argument to sit among the top twenty fighters of all time? Where do people rank him?

And lastly, what next for the old man now? Do people feel he should go out on a high now or should he continue to defy the barriers of age and keep going? The lightheavy division is not packed with quality at the moment but fights against fellow Americans Dawson and Cloud could be possibilities and Hopkins has now done his much mailigned marketability a favour or two by being able to bill himself as the oldest ever world champion. How do people think he would fae against the likes of Dawson, Cloud or even Cleverly? I must say I still cant se anyone beating the old man at present in the division but it seems inneviteable that age will catch up eventually. The Super 6 is also likely to be concluded this year and there may e a few names who would fancy stepping up to try wrestle the tilte off the old man. Froch has mooted a rematch with Pascal in the past but that would now seem to be inconsequential as Hopkins is now the man at the weight in my eyes. ellow Amercian Ward may also feel the lure of a potential 2 weight champion by stepping up. What do people feel Hopkins should do next?

He's in at 6 in my all-time middleweights list. As a light-heavy, often the strongest division of them all, I couldn't possibly find a space for him in the Top 20. He hasn't fought often enough at 175, and his accomplishments at the weight have not come in a vintage era for the division. Overall, however, I think that Hopkins has done enough to be rated an all-time top 50 fighter. I'd have to think for longer about where exactly he would fit.

The future seems to me to be obvious, bearing in mind that Hopkins has expressed the firm intention to continue. Nothing less than tidying up the division - beating all pretenders - men such as Cloud, Dawson, whoever the WBA champion happens to be at the time, plus any rising 168-pounders. Clearly, he needs to get on with it, but I wouldn't put it past him. As I say, there isn't much on the horizon to scare him.

To retire having been the undisputed leader of two of the original eight weight divisions would count for a great deal when assessing Hopkins' legacy.

The light heavyweight division isn't at his strongest right now but you can't play down what a magnificent achievement it is to become THE world champion at 46, not as though he took on the easy option of a mere belt holder he took on the universally recognized best in his own backyard nonetheless. Have him now comfortably out in front as the top guy of his generation ahead of both you know who's, there aren't many around in the modern era who can claim to have been the very best in two divisions, he's a 3 time lineal champion.

On current form he should beat Dawson, Cloud or Cleverly but he does have to get old sometime so a loss has to be round the corner surely, hard to say how he would do against Froch or Ward who bring something different to the table and are both a step up from anyone in his current division.

Pushes himself into number 20 on my list now

I can't put hopkins or jones in an all time list, hopkins middleweight reign and jones light heavy/heavy reign are similar as is hopkins light heavy reign and jones super middle reign,

jones won fights by much greater margins but then hopkins losses were much closer than jones losses

the thing for me that separates them is their early days; in hopkins first 25 fights he didn't beat a recognisable name but in jones first 25 fights he beat castro, vaca, hopkins and malinga

I can't put hopkins or jones in an all time list

that's meant to read above jones not or

After a bit of reflection, I'd put it like this - Hopkins certainly doesn't make my p for p all-time top 30 - there are that many names whom I'd definitely want ahead of him. Equally clearly, he's in my top 50 - there are about another 20 fighters whom I'd consider of roughly equal merit to Bernard. Some I'd rate marginally higher, some marginally lower, but they would be a series of close calls, depending on how I felt on the day in question. Realistically, therefore, Hopkins arrives anywhere between 35 and 45 in my thinking.

Hopkins want Dawson then Bute, fighter he know he has the beating of and also they are rated the best at their weights.

I would say Hopkins's light heavy career has been better than his middlweight career. Never than impressed with his middleweight career.

He has much more bigger scalps at light-heavy than at middle.

Well Bute isn't rate as the best at Super Middleweight nor is Dawson rated above Cloud although that could change with the win over Diaconu

Hopkins middleweight record is very under rated, he beat the best there was to beat and Holmes, Allen, Trinidad, Joppy, Eastman, Johnson, Jackson and Brown are all solid wins over established fighters and with the exception of Eastman former or future world champions, add in his light heavyweight wins over Tarver, Wright? and Pascal and you've got a very strong resume overall. In hindsight 20 might be a bit high but the best of the past 15 years.

http://boxrec.com/ratings.php?sex=m&division=Super%20Middleweight

http://boxrec.com/ratings.php?country=&sex=m&division=Light+Heavyweight&status=A&SUBMIT=Go

Hopkins can't fight himself and shouldn't fight Pascal again.

Dawson next then Bute.

That if they are willing to take on B-Hop.

Think your on your own as taking Boxrecs rankings as gospel, they have little relation to the reality

Hopkins plans to fight till he is 50 and fight the best fighters and fight exciting fights.

Even though Hopkins is in his late forties taking on much younger boxers, I will never write off a great fighter.

He has what it takes to beat the best fighters around.

Do we have to hear you say that all the time now?

Why should we never write about great fighters, D4? More to the point; why do you keep saying that, but then keep writing about these apparently great fighters? You are breaking your own rule there. Very strange.

Fantastic win by Hopkins. When a fight against Pascal was first mentioned, I don't think many people gave Hopkins much of a chance. But, he basically defeated him twice. A historic win, over a long career Hopkins has demonstrated he is an ATG fighter. Its shows that boxing skills can be to a degree timeless and unblemished by age. I quite liked the fact Hopkins was performing sit ups during the round intermissions.

If Hopkins is able to put on displays as top notch as the last two, he is a dangerous fighter for anyone in the division. Dawson may have the option on him next, he was scheduled to take on the winner of last night's fight. I'd actually state that Tavoris Cloud is the toughest fight out there.

Personally, would have loved to see Hopkins announce his retirement after this fight. He has absolutely nothing to prove, he's the definition of the word 'phenomenon' and, his antics in the build up to and during the Calzaghe bout aside, he's been a great servant to the sport.

But alas, he wants to continue - and why not? He's fighting as well as anyone at 175 lb, and the likes of Cleverly, Cloud and Bute are winable fights for him, though I think he should steer clear of Froch.

As to where he ranks in an all-time sense, well to have him outside the top fifty would, in my eyes, be simply outrageous. Like Captain, he's number six purely at 160 lb for me (behind Greb, Monzon, Hagler, Robinson and Ketchel, in that order). He'd move down a few places if we based it solely on names they've faced and beaten, but in terms of consistency and longevity, he is almost without equal.

I'd concede that, since stepping up to 175 lb, the names of Tarver, Wright (a natural 154 lb, let's not forget), a shot to pieces Jones and a limited but explosive and game Pascal is hardly stellar stuff, but he picks up a huge amount of extra brownie points for taking these names out while on the wrong side of forty. Mark my words, it will be a long, long time before we see another fighter picking up a title at forty-six, or even past the big '4 and 0.'

He has a fine claim to rank ahead of both Mayweather and Pacquiao (personally, I'd have them more or less on a level playing field right now) and for me, regardless of the 1993 loss (which means a hell of a lot more than the 2010 return) he's left Jones eating his dust in terms of their overall careers.

I think Hopkins is at least pushing for a top thirty spot. Anywhere between twenty-five and thirty-five seems fair to me, now. A lot of people seem keen to degrade or down play what he's done but for me his achievements, when taken in to context, are amongst the most incredible we've seen in boxing. A true all-time great in every sense.

He talked about taking down Bute in his post fight interview... That would be interesting

Not sure why Bute is being touted. His track record doesnt really suggest he would be keen on ditching his title and jumping to Lightheavy to face Hopkins.

I would say as things stand Hopkins would be 20-30 bracket on my list.

Would have to say, I struggle to see how Robinson or Ketchel rate higher than Hopkins at middleweight.

manos de piedra wrote:Not sure why Bute is being touted. His track record doesnt really suggest he would be keen on ditching his title and jumping to Lightheavy to face Hopkins.

I would say as things stand Hopkins would be 20-30 bracket on my list.

Would have to say, I struggle to see how Robinson or Ketchel rate higher than Hopkins at middleweight.

Uh oh.

Well I wasn't the only one I know but I didn't think Hopkins would beat Pascal in their return fight, but he did and convincingly.I haven't seen the fight but a U.D. defeat in your own backyard tells the story.

Quote from the BBC Website: -
Cleverly has said that a bout against Hopkins, at 46-years old the oldest world champion ever, would be "the long term target."
Obviously waiting for Bernard to buy a zimmer frame before wanting to fight him!! Bernard can do anything he likes now, so Cleverley will neer get a shot.

Pops need to retire......done it bought the t-shirt and he is getting slower...

wpnderful fighter and a top 15 fighter for sure now..

Hopkins to bang the drum for a rematch with Calzaghe. Calzaghe to bang the drum for a rematch with Hopkins.....everyone else to bang their two heads together and tell them to shut up!

Well he intends to fight until 50 so if thats the case I really only see Dawson and Cloud being realistic propositions for him at the moment.

Some of the SMWs, especially Froch, might fancy a crack at him next year after the S6 is completed.

Hopkins should really retire, bowing out with a record breaking victory.

However, if he wants to continue fighting, he should perhaps consider stepping up to CW and winning a title there.
Looking at that division and its current champions, you wouldnt bet against Hopkins beating any of them...even at 46.

A match-up with Marco Huck is unlikely as I can't see him leaving Germany. Steven Cunningham would be a more realistic, all-American choice.
He also has the option of fighting the Green-Tarver winner since the Aussie has been in good form recently.

According to Dan Rafael, Hopkins is contractually obliged to face Dawson.

Dawson had a rematch clause with Pascal which he waived to let Hopkins take the fight but reserved the right to face the winner for the title.

Colonial Lion wrote: I have always had alot of respect for him as a fighter who was something of a throwback to the byegone eras of boxing. A modern day Archie Moore if you will, and someone who put himself on the boxing map by doing it the hard way. Its also worth considering that he has been the underdog now in the majority of his biggest fights.

I also feel he has been perhaps a tad unfortunate in the sport in having many decisions go against him, often at times seeming to be the man the sport wanted rid of in many ways. I had him winning one of the Taylor fights, the Calzaghe fight and the first Pascal fight but was impressed that he wasnt deterred by the results going against him and continued to battle.

~ Why sir, what on earth has ever possessed you to demean the great Archie Moore with banal comparisons to one of the most stinking, fouling, spoiling champions ever?

Throwbacks much less Mr. Archie don't throw themselves on the canvas moaning about little boo-boos, and turn down huge money fights like Prime Mr. Roy and Mr. Joe and most recently Mr. Green who announced he will be targeting Mr. HGHopkins again.

I had Mr. Roy and Mr. Joe knocking him out, or at very least winning a DQ as the man simply was no longer a man but a whining kicked cur yelping for substantial portions of the fight. He won a political decision against Mr. Jean who most every big win has been a political decision that sees him fading down the stretch because he doesn't know how to train himself properly.

Had he been fighting with the acumen he showed against Mr. Tito and Mr. Kelly, there would be no doubt as to his top credentials. Nobody but his mother knew who he was during the 90s when Mr. Roy ruled, and then Mr. Manny took over during the 00s.

In short, sir, whoopee for your team, but mark my words, the man has organic brain damage that he disguises and is a KO waiting in the wings if he ever faces a puncher which is why he turned down the Mr. Green fight.

In short, sir, whoopee for your team, but mark my words, the man has organic brain damage that he disguises and is a KO waiting in the wings if he ever faces a puncher which is why he turned down the Mr. Green fight.
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Danny Green ? Hopkins would box his head off 5 years from now, he would destroy him tomorrow, he was outboxed by a bum in Mundine who got knocked out everytime he was out of his comfort zone. I dont like Hopkins i think he's a racist tool but he is 10 times better than Mundine or Green, if Mundine done that to him do you honestly see him beating B Hop? i'd put DeGale in with that Mundine as a come back, James would knock that big mouthed bum out within 6 rounds.

Steven_89 wrote:
Danny Green ? Hopkins would box his head off 5 years from now, he would destroy him tomorrow, he was outboxed by a bum in Mundine who got knocked out everytime he was out of his comfort zone. I dont like Hopkins i think he's a racist tool but he is 10 times better than Mundine or Green, if Mundine done that to him do you honestly see him beating B Hop? i'd put DeGale in with that Mundine as a come back, James would knock that big mouthed bum out within 6 rounds.

~ Ho~Ho, and what part of the Ghost of Mr. Roy knocking out Mr. HGHopkins do you fail to understand sir?

Dewy eyed soft lads in Barney World have already forgotten that he was lined up the big money winner of Mr. Roy/Green that Mr. HGHopkins promptly canceled after the 1st round KO rattled his cage. Instead he rolled around on the canvas crying like a schoolboy against the ghost of Mr. Roy for handouts in Las Vegas.

Has any HOFer ever had a more disgraceful showing, ever?

In closing, please do forward my regards to Barney for being on call for you lads all these years, a purple Mother Teresa he is!

Albertus Lion, you are the most pretentious and boring poster on the board.

I am pretty sure this is an attempt at wummery, but most people with a right mind can see that despite a boring style; Hopkins is an all time great.

samevans1 wrote:Albertus Lion, you are the most pretentious and boring poster on the board.

I am pretty sure this is an attempt at wummery, but most people with a right mind can see that despite a boring style; Hopkins is an all time great.

I'm not sure our resident eccentric doubts his credentials an an all time great, rather that he sees his "cur-like / schoolgirl-esque " "boo-boo-hamming-up" behaviour as unbefitting a fighter of his stature.

However, given that I have to read his posts ~5 times to understand them I couldn't swear to it.

If I was Hopkins I would fight Bute for these reasons:

- He's unbeaten and nice scalp to put on his ever expanding resume.

- Would be another BIG fight in Canada and lucrative

- Bute is pretty unproven IMO and winnable for Hopkins

- Most likely to have the main say-so in negotiations

Also, if I was Bute I would fight Hopkins:

- BIG name he desperately needs on his resume, who also is not at his peak (problem is Pavlik and Pascal thought he same!)

- Can use the fight as excuse to continue to avoid the best at SMW i.e. Froch and Ward

- Big earner

- If he loses he can say going up in weight was an issue ect and say still unbeaten at natural weight etc.

Dewy eyed soft lads in Barney World have already forgotten that he was lined up the big money winner of Mr. Roy/Green that Mr. HGHopkins promptly canceled after the 1st round KO rattled his cage. Instead he rolled around on the canvas crying like a schoolboy against the ghost of Mr. Roy for handouts in Las Vegas.

Has any HOFer ever had a more disgraceful showing, ever?

In closing, please do forward my regards to Barney for being on call for you lads all these years, a purple Mother Teresa he is!
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If Hopkins fought that B level fighter Green tomorrow i'd bet my house on him to win 14 out of the 12 rounds. Mundine outboxed him and Mundine is an awful hyped average fighter who everytime he fights someone who wants to be there gets knocked spark out. Do me a favour, 'mr i've got a chip on my shoulder' don't mention Green in the same breath as B-Hop. The Green v Jones fight was a Bruce Grobelar work of art

I heard on Billy C Radio that its gonna be a Lucien Bute fight.

Reasons: Hopkins seems popular there as is Bute and the Canadians will stump up better money than anyone in the US.

BHop is looking for the money fights and Canada will provide the next one.

Chad Dawson is not an option - where will they fight? Dawson couldn't draw flies.

i dont think Bhop intends to fight till 50, he said it straight afterr the fight but he also tried to give pascal the belt back too. He wants a couple more pay days thats his idea i think and thats why he wants Bute in Montreal, he knows it generates revenue

Dawson should be able to beat Hopknins with output and has great height and range too, but to be honest Dawsons looked gun shy in last two fights, needs to buck up because this version of him gets outcrafted by Bhop, if he upped his workrate he would exhaust Bhop. pascal fights in bursts which plays straight into bhop and pascal gasses a little

hopkins beats Bute all day long. But is the most overatted boxer in the sport.

Valero's Conscience wrote:- Can use the fight as excuse to continue to avoid the best at SMW i.e. Froch and Ward

Not sure how you can claim that Bute has avoided the best at SMW. Both Froch and Ward are part of a tournament that Bute isnt competing in. Its not really a case of avoiding the best, its more a case of simply being unable to fight them.
Once the tournament is over, Bute will most probably be lined up with the winner.

For me, not taking into account pre-war fighters who I only have written words and records to go on (not the same as seeing imo) I have him in my top 20 of all-time. His achievements so extensive over a long period and with no clear defeat on his resume, there is simply no more that can be asked. Maybe not the most exciting fighter ever but certainly an entertaining personality that makes up for it in my book. (the press-ups in the ring had me in stitches, that fight will be forever remembered as the fight where 'Hopkins becomes the oldest world champion at 46 taking the fight to and outworking fighter nearly twenty years his junior, even stopping in between rounds to do press ups!) As you can probably tell I'm a big Hopkins fan!

I hope Hopkins fights Bute.

Bute is one of the most over-rated fighters in the world. I hop Hopkins totally schools the hype job and then takes on the winner of Froch-Ward; that is a fight I would dearly love to see.

J.Benson II wrote:

Valero's Conscience wrote:- Can use the fight as excuse to continue to avoid the best at SMW i.e. Froch and Ward

Not sure how you can claim that Bute has avoided the best at SMW. Both Froch and Ward are part of a tournament that Bute isnt competing in. Its not really a case of avoiding the best, its more a case of simply being unable to fight them.
Once the tournament is over, Bute will most probably be lined up with the winner.

But even the fighters who are not in the Super 6, Bute is not fighting the best of them, I mean he's fought Brinkley, Magee and now Mendy.

I like Bute but for a World Champ, he's certainly not fought worthy opponents for his status.

We'll see what happens after the Super 6 and see what Bute does.

Valero's Conscience wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:

Valero's Conscience wrote:- Can use the fight as excuse to continue to avoid the best at SMW i.e. Froch and Ward

Not sure how you can claim that Bute has avoided the best at SMW. Both Froch and Ward are part of a tournament that Bute isnt competing in. Its not really a case of avoiding the best, its more a case of simply being unable to fight them.
Once the tournament is over, Bute will most probably be lined up with the winner.

But even the fighters who are not in the Super 6, Bute is not fighting the best of them, I mean he's fought Brinkley, Magee and now Mendy.

I like Bute but for a World Champ, he's certainly not fought worthy opponents for his status.

We'll see what happens after the Super 6 and see what Bute does.

While I agree that Bute isnt worthy of the lofty status he often gets, I also feel that some of the criticism he gets is also unwarranted.

The Super Six has meant that the best fights just havent been avaliable for Bute. If the Canadian fails to fight the best once the tournament is over, only than would the criticism become justified.

His level of opposition is questionable at times but he has also fought some decent and solid gatekeepers.....and beaten them in arguably a more impressive fashion than they've been beaten before (ie. Miranda, Andrande, Bika).

His skill set looks impressive. Probably the best body puncher in boxing today.

I don't actually Mendy is that bad a choice of opponent. Unbeaten fighter who's ranked inside the top 15.
I agree that he needs a big name soon though.