Mehrtens suggests Super Rugby Drop South Africa?

by **LondonTiger** Wed 16 Apr 2014, 1:26 pm

And concentrate on their own time-zones:

http://www.espn.co.uk/super-rugby-2014/rugby/story/222005.html

by geoff998rugby Wed 16 Apr 2014, 2:08 pm

He does realise that the game in South Africa, effectively, subsidizes the other 2 - particularly Australia ?

by **Biltong** Wed 16 Apr 2014, 3:28 pm

I actually agree with him, I wrote this a week or so ago.

biltong wrote:According to most Australian fans and the Australian Rugby Union, it seems that Super Rugby in its current guise – whereby teams from the three participating nations fly across the Indian Ocean to compete – is no longer wanted or required.

It seems to me at least that the ARU is intent on pushing for a restructuring or ‘realignment’ of their current goals and partnerships.

The situation reminds me of this quote from business strategist Curtis E. Sahakian:

“You can adapt by changing your organisation’s relationships with other organisations through corporate partnering. Instead of building internal capabilities you turn to partnerships and alliances. As you need to change and adapt, you change partners. Companies that know how to form and use this partnering are displacing those that don’t get it.”

As Sahakian suggests above, there comes a time when the realisation hits that current partners aren’t seeing things the way you do. In other words, your ideologies are not being shared by your partners and the time has come to discard one or both of them and find a new partner to bed.

Japan seems to be the next intended target – a financially prospering economy, a hundred million-plus population and in much closer proximity to the Antipodes.

It makes sense, even for a South African on the other side of the Indian Ocean. When your goals are no longer shared by a nation half a world away, where time zones have never been favourable; where travel has not only been a drag but also eats into the profitability of the venture; and when a partner intent on playing hardball, demanding a sixth team and most likely a fairer share of a pie they contribute to the most, why not look elsewhere?

The New Zealand Rugby Union, though, is between a rock and a hard place. Does it make sense for them to align with the ARU?

Of course it does. They share a bond much closer with their neighbors than a bunch of Boers half a world away – ANZAC Day, history, Bledisloe, commercial interest, and so on.

The Springboks may have been their traditional foe, but let’s be honest – the rivalry ended during 1981′s ‘Flour Bomb’ series, nearly 35 years ago.

Since then the Springboks have struggled to hang onto a 30 per cent win rate against the All Blacks, and as for fronting up to the beef eaters from Africa? Well, you can find tough men everywhere these days.

It is therefore logical that there are more reasons for the New Zealand Rugby Union to align with the ARU and search for other commercial partners, leaving the SARU to their own devices.

The writing is on the wall, and if the realignment does not happen with the current contract negotiations, I am pretty sure it will eventuate with the next contract negotiations. The ARU will convince at least the New Zealand Rugby Union of bringing in the yen from Japan.

I have only one request – why delay the inevitable? If a realignment is going to happen, why waste time?

Let’s get it over and done with. The SARU has people to see and places to go.

by **rodders** Wed 16 Apr 2014, 3:32 pm

South Africa to join the pro12?

by GunsGerms Wed 16 Apr 2014, 3:37 pm

It isnt the first time Mehrtens has given SA the finger. Strange for a guy from Durban. Anyway maybe he has a point, Super rugby doesnt really work. It was a Rupert Murdoch invention that despite the quality of the teams never suceeded in delivering as good a product as the NH equalivent the Heineken cup (RIP). It would possibly make more sense for SA to broker a deal with the European sides anyway.

by geoff998rugby Wed 16 Apr 2014, 3:40 pm

Without the Super 15 could Australian rugby support itself - I doubt it

South Africa would be fine

by **rodders** Wed 16 Apr 2014, 3:41 pm

Which is ironic because it was the old super 12 that inspired the formation of the European cup as a stepping stone between club and International rugby if I remember correctly

by GunsGerms Wed 16 Apr 2014, 3:43 pm

It could possibly if it did a deal with NZ and the pacific islands as Mehertens suggested.

by Guest Wed 16 Apr 2014, 6:40 pm

Mehrtens said the future was elsewhere. "[We could] include teams from the Pacific Islands and Japan. Maybe there could still be post-season involvement with South Africa, but their natural alignment is more with the UK and Europe, in the same time zone. You might have 20 teams in our time-zone - eight or so from New Zealand, maybe six in Australia and the rest from the islands and Japan."
Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/super-rugby-2014/rugby/story/222005.html#1KMqoCp2o9LPlcWA.99

And who would that benefit? The Japanese and pacific island teams getting smashed week in week out by the NZ and Aus sides. I think SA joining an European league makes more sense logistically, is it a much shorter distance to travel? I know that time zone wise it makes more sense.

The only issue with SA joining a NH league is the calander, could SA play in their summer or should the NH switch to summer rugby?

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 16 Apr 2014, 7:22 pm

SA could approach Wales, they would consider jumping into bed with any country.

by **Biltong** Wed 16 Apr 2014, 7:25 pm

Ironmike, I can't see a practical solution for SA to join Europe.

Our summers are way too hot, Durban is notoriously humid in summer, playing there is virtually impossible between November and February.

Gauteng is close on 30 plus in summer and Bloemfontein even hotter.

I can also not see the whole of Europe changing their season to suit us, it just isn't logical.

As for us joining anyone once we leave Super Rugby, I just wouldn't want it.

Reasons.

Travel, even though the time zones are suitable, the travel cost and fatigue will still be a huge factor.

Style of play. The only reason we benefit from Super Rugby is because we get to play two SH nations that play hard, fast breakdown and agility styled attack, it keeps us awake and it influences (albeit slowly) to play a faster style of attack whilst our core elements (set pieces) remain strong.

If we join Europe, we will play against teams too similar in style to us which in my view would be the same as us playing against ourselves.

Yes, there will be more money.

But I would much rather see us focus on our domestic structure, develop in a way where all fourteen our provinces get a bigger and more equal share of revenue.

Will be be able to compete with European salaries?

No we won't, but we aren't currently anyway.

We have a situation where we have a 16 match round robin in Super Rugby, plus finals, then we have a 10 week Currie Cup with finals.

If we change our Currie Cup into a Top 14 type competition we will have a 26 week round robin plus finals.

That takes care of most of our season.

Then I would like to see an "all star" competition whereby the top 8 players in each position is drafted in an "IPL" type auction and 4 teams selected to compete in a six week double round robin tounrament.

That will provide our very best players an opportunity to show their wares and experience top, flight rugby in a 6 week period.

As far as finances are concerned, we make do with what we earn, get some of the games on Free to Air tv and market the game to all corners of SA.

by Taylorman Thu 17 Apr 2014, 3:24 am

I think its the unique factors of the superxv that sets the 3 countries apart from the rest. The mental toughness it requires to travel those distances and still play at short intervals makes the players tougher, the squads tighter and keeps the flow on to the national sides at a premium, injuries and fatigue aside. Managing them makes it all that much tougher.

If we are just popping across the Tasman and back its not the same, though such a relationship will certainly be at the detriment of everyone else, including SA. (That is, provided Oz are able to maintain reasonable playing stocks).

by quinsforever Thu 17 Apr 2014, 9:25 am

This would ultimately be very bad for NZ rugby. The money and market in S15 are SA's. In the NH it's England and France. If NZ retreat into a cozy NZ v AUS club setup the clear and obvious danger is that the salary gulf between such a competition and Frances league will be gigantic, and talent will follow the money.

Pretending that NZ can play some kind of club game that is superior to everyone else's, when the best international players are all plying their trade in SA, Eng and France is delusional.

Murdoch tying in the Saffers is the only hope that NZRFU have in preventing players leaving for France or England as their pay grows.

by Taylorman Thu 17 Apr 2014, 9:43 am

Quins we've been doing it since rugby went pro. No matter how many players go overseas we still manage to put out the best quality sides at both club and International level- dominating both.
Hardly delusional and until the scenario you mention happens delusion is hardly an apt description, given its been the status quo for years.

by **Biltong** Thu 17 Apr 2014, 10:19 am

QUins, SA won't be that flush when they leave, we will have some money, but it will be less than what we get now.

The content will be significantly reduced.

We will have to grow the CUrrie CUp and give our own players opportunity.

by munkian Thu 17 Apr 2014, 10:32 am

Come to the Rabbo, Biltong. I'll support a saffa club as my 2nd team if you lend us a new front row Wink

by **Biltong** Thu 17 Apr 2014, 10:37 am

Munkian, no mate, I want us to focus on developing our rugby, no more travel, no more compromising our domestic rugby for other tournaments.

Front rows, are for sale, you shouldn't have a problem finding them, our currency is weak, and players plentiful.

We grow them by the cluster. Wink

by RF09 Thu 17 Apr 2014, 10:46 am

Can understand the travel and time difference being an issue there with the Super 15.
But its a few hours flight from Europe to SA despite only a 1 hour time diff. But theres also the added difference in when the season is played.
Cant see any SA involvement in europe happening any time soon. Seems to me an all SA premier league is a better option.
Perhaps with involvement in the Euro cup but considering 2 yrs of wrangling and an 8 year deal just signed it seems unlikely....although if theres a big commercial & financial incentive I am sure it would be discussed.
Add 4 SA teams to the euro cup & 1 to the amlin..we are back where we started with 24 teams! laughing

by munkian Thu 17 Apr 2014, 10:49 am

Biltong wrote:Munkian, no mate, I want us to focus on developing our rugby, no more travel, no more compromising our domestic rugby for other tournaments.

Front rows, are for sale, you shouldn't have a problem finding them, our currency is weak, and players plentiful.

We grow them by the cluster.

It'll be great it you do develop your domestic league, balls to Nz and Aus.

Are overseas players still picked for the Springboks ?

by **Biltong** Thu 17 Apr 2014, 10:56 am

munkian wrote:
Biltong wrote:Munkian, no mate, I want us to focus on developing our rugby, no more travel, no more compromising our domestic rugby for other tournaments.

Front rows, are for sale, you shouldn't have a problem finding them, our currency is weak, and players plentiful.

We grow them by the cluster.

It'll be great it you do develop your domestic league, balls to Nz and Aus.

Are overseas players still picked for the Springboks ?

Currently yes, there was talk to phase it out slowly, Meyer has opened a can of worms with selecting 8 overseas players in the Autumn squad last year.

I am of the opinion that Super rugby has damaged our development over the past 18 years.

All the best players have basically gravitated to the Sharks, Bulls and Stormers.

The way I see it, we will have 8 teams in the premier division this year, with the other 6 teams playing the B comp.

If we add one more team every year, it will take us anther 6 years to fully incorporate all fourteen provinces.

We can have a 26 week round robin and finals.

That will give Supersport a lot of content and we should be able to sell it to other nations as well, slowly building the revenue from broadcasting

It will also be better for the Quota system that has been proposed/enforced.

We can ensure every team is on a level playing field as competing against other provincial/club teams when government is trying to enforce quotas is not healthy.

This way it is kept inhouse and fair for all teams. Which ultimately will grow the audiences in SA, we have the potential to at least treble our market domestically.

by munkian Thu 17 Apr 2014, 10:58 am

Good to hear, wish Wales could do something similar

by brennomac Thu 17 Apr 2014, 11:23 am

quinsforever wrote:This would ultimately be very bad for NZ rugby. The money and market in S15 are SA's. In the NH it's England and France. If NZ retreat into a cozy NZ v AUS club setup the clear and obvious danger is that the salary gulf between such a competition and Frances league will be gigantic, and talent will follow the money.

Pretending that NZ can play some kind of club game that is superior to everyone else's, when the best international players are all plying their trade in SA, Eng and France is delusional.

Murdoch tying in the Saffers is the only hope that NZRFU have in preventing players leaving for France or England as their pay grows.

Quins, I love your statement that all the best international players are plying their trade in England, France and SA. I know to your mind Ireland is just a minor outpost in the rugby galaxy but I would suggest that we do have some of the best players in their positions and in only one case, Sexton, has the lure of French money won over the wish of most top Irish players to stay at home. SOB and Heaslip both turned down big French offers - admittedly for a big hike in pay from the IRFU but there's no indication of any mad rush by the top Irish players to go to France or England. There might be a lot of money in England but so far the only Irish players who have joined English clubs are those like Stringer at the end of their career or those like Mushy Buckley who were never international class anyway

I'm not saying that we have some of the best players in all positions but Kearney (Rob), Bowe, Trimble (after this year's 6N), Murray, Best, Healy, POC, SOB, Heaslip, POM would be among the best - not saying they are the best - in their positions and they're all still playing in Ireland

by munkian Thu 17 Apr 2014, 11:36 am

Pretty sure Faletau, AWJ, Tipuric, Warburton, Biggar etc are half decent...

by quinsforever Thu 17 Apr 2014, 1:56 pm

Was talking about the future, not the now. And my meaning regarding international players is those that are playing for clubs of different nationality than their own, not those who don't move.

Ireland have a great setup and it works really well for clubs, and after this years 6N success, national team too. But I do t see Irish clubs as a "destination" for top international players as much as France and England.

by quinsforever Thu 17 Apr 2014, 1:57 pm

And re the welsh players, only faletau compares to the quality of welsh players playing in France and England...

by munkian Thu 17 Apr 2014, 1:58 pm

Agreed with the Irish bit possibly not the latter though more and more are going

by Portnoy's Complaint Thu 17 Apr 2014, 2:08 pm

quinsforever wrote:Was talking about the future, not the now. And my meaning regarding international players is those that are playing for clubs of different nationality than their own, not those who don't move.

Ireland have a great setup and it works really well for clubs, and after this years 6N success, national team too. But I do t see Irish clubs as a "destination" for top international players as much as France and England.

By 'destination', I assume you mean 'kerching', Quins.

Outside of Dublin and Ulster (during the Troubles(sic)), I'd gladly have settled in Ireland during the early 70s but there was no money and there were no prospects at the time before the EC money kicked in.

by quinsforever Thu 17 Apr 2014, 2:21 pm

Kerching and number of teams. Not judging the destinations themselves. Just don't see Irish provinces every willing to compete with french clubs financially for non-Irish players.

by Sin é Thu 17 Apr 2014, 5:35 pm

quinsforever wrote:This would ultimately be very bad for NZ rugby. The money and market in S15 are SA's. In the NH it's England and France. If NZ retreat into a cozy NZ v AUS club setup the clear and obvious danger is that the salary gulf between such a competition and Frances league will be gigantic, and talent will follow the money.

Pretending that NZ can play some kind of club game that is superior to everyone else's, when the best international players are all plying their trade in SA, Eng and France is delusional.

Murdoch tying in the Saffers is the only hope that NZRFU have in preventing players leaving for France or England as their pay grows.

But that audience will soon get bored at looking at the Stormers playing the Sharks for the nth time. I'd also imagine that the Crusaders & Chiefs among others get a few bums on seats when they play in SA.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the standard of SA rugby dropped considerably during the apartheid years because they were not playing teams outside of SA.

by **Biltong** Thu 17 Apr 2014, 5:38 pm

Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:This would ultimately be very bad for NZ rugby. The money and market in S15 are SA's. In the NH it's England and France. If NZ retreat into a cozy NZ v AUS club setup the clear and obvious danger is that the salary gulf between such a competition and Frances league will be gigantic, and talent will follow the money.

Pretending that NZ can play some kind of club game that is superior to everyone else's, when the best international players are all plying their trade in SA, Eng and France is delusional.

Murdoch tying in the Saffers is the only hope that NZRFU have in preventing players leaving for France or England as their pay grows.

But that audience will soon get bored at looking at the Stormers playing the Sharks for the nth time. I'd also imagine that the Crusaders & Chiefs among others get a few bums on seats when they play in SA.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the standard of SA rugby dropped considerably during the apartheid years because they were not playing teams outside of SA.

In the Apartheid years we didn't play tests against other countries, not playing Super Rugby is not the same thing

by **Biltong** Thu 17 Apr 2014, 5:38 pm

Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:This would ultimately be very bad for NZ rugby. The money and market in S15 are SA's. In the NH it's England and France. If NZ retreat into a cozy NZ v AUS club setup the clear and obvious danger is that the salary gulf between such a competition and Frances league will be gigantic, and talent will follow the money.

Pretending that NZ can play some kind of club game that is superior to everyone else's, when the best international players are all plying their trade in SA, Eng and France is delusional.

Murdoch tying in the Saffers is the only hope that NZRFU have in preventing players leaving for France or England as their pay grows.

But that audience will soon get bored at looking at the Stormers playing the Sharks for the nth time. I'd also imagine that the Crusaders & Chiefs among others get a few bums on seats when they play in SA.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the standard of SA rugby dropped considerably during the apartheid years because they were not playing teams outside of SA.

In the Apartheid years we didn't play tests against other countries, not playing Super Rugby is not the same thing

by Sin é Thu 17 Apr 2014, 5:42 pm

Biltong wrote:
Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:This would ultimately be very bad for NZ rugby. The money and market in S15 are SA's. In the NH it's England and France. If NZ retreat into a cozy NZ v AUS club setup the clear and obvious danger is that the salary gulf between such a competition and Frances league will be gigantic, and talent will follow the money.

Pretending that NZ can play some kind of club game that is superior to everyone else's, when the best international players are all plying their trade in SA, Eng and France is delusional.

Murdoch tying in the Saffers is the only hope that NZRFU have in preventing players leaving for France or England as their pay grows.

But that audience will soon get bored at looking at the Stormers playing the Sharks for the nth time. I'd also imagine that the Crusaders & Chiefs among others get a few bums on seats when they play in SA.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the standard of SA rugby dropped considerably during the apartheid years because they were not playing teams outside of SA.

In the Apartheid years we didn't play tests against other countries, not playing Super Rugby is not the same thing

The bar has been raised now though which would give say the Kiwis and Australians an advantage to be playing regularly against different style teams. Super Rugby gives SA a great opportunity to compete with the ABs.

by Sin é Thu 17 Apr 2014, 5:50 pm

quinsforever wrote:Was talking about the future, not the now. And my meaning regarding international players is those that are playing for clubs of different nationality than their own, not those who don't move.

Ireland have a great setup and it works really well for clubs, and after this years 6N success, national team too. But I do t see Irish clubs as a "destination" for top international players as much as France and England.

Strangely enough, some SH players are attracted to the Irish provinces because they would be in with a chance of winning a European Cup with them. Its fairly amazing, but when Munster won the Heineken Cup in 2008, Doug Howlett was only the 2nd player in the history of the tournament to have won a Super Rugby title and a Heineken Cup.

There have been a few since then I think, like Brad Thorn (Leinster).

by **Biltong** Thu 17 Apr 2014, 5:55 pm

Sin é wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:This would ultimately be very bad for NZ rugby. The money and market in S15 are SA's. In the NH it's England and France. If NZ retreat into a cozy NZ v AUS club setup the clear and obvious danger is that the salary gulf between such a competition and Frances league will be gigantic, and talent will follow the money.

Pretending that NZ can play some kind of club game that is superior to everyone else's, when the best international players are all plying their trade in SA, Eng and France is delusional.

Murdoch tying in the Saffers is the only hope that NZRFU have in preventing players leaving for France or England as their pay grows.

But that audience will soon get bored at looking at the Stormers playing the Sharks for the nth time. I'd also imagine that the Crusaders & Chiefs among others get a few bums on seats when they play in SA.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the standard of SA rugby dropped considerably during the apartheid years because they were not playing teams outside of SA.

In the Apartheid years we didn't play tests against other countries, not playing Super Rugby is not the same thing

The bar has been raised now though which would give say the Kiwis and Australians an advantage to be playing regularly against different style teams. Super Rugby gives SA a great opportunity to compete with the ABs.

True, but that goes both ways, Steve Tew said the NZRU wants SA in Super Rugby as we prepare their players for test rugby.

by HammerofThunor Thu 17 Apr 2014, 6:14 pm

Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:Was talking about the future, not the now. And my meaning regarding international players is those that are playing for clubs of different nationality than their own, not those who don't move.

Ireland have a great setup and it works really well for clubs, and after this years 6N success, national team too. But I do t see Irish clubs as a "destination" for top international players as much as France and England.

Strangely enough, some SH players are attracted to the Irish provinces because they would be in with a chance of winning a European Cup with them. Its fairly amazing, but when Munster won the Heineken Cup in 2008, Doug Howlett was only the 2nd player in the history of the tournament to have won a Super Rugby title and a Heineken Cup.

There have been a few since then I think, like Brad Thorn (Leinster).

Players say a lot of things when they move. Rarely do they say "They're paying me Poopie of cash"

by Sin é Thu 17 Apr 2014, 6:27 pm

That doesn't explain why Doug Howlett came to Munster even though he would have got a lot more in France.

Lifestyle has a lot to do with it as well. I think the Kiwis like Ireland for instance because its similar to New Zealand - sparse population, agricultural rather than industrial country, speaks English. It makes it easier for them and their families to settle here.

by HammerofThunor Thu 17 Apr 2014, 6:29 pm

Wasn't his salary funded by special sponsorship or something? Vaguely remember something along those lines but don't know the validity.

How much was he on? How much were comparable wages in France?

Edit: and I 100% agree with the last bit

by Sin é Thu 17 Apr 2014, 6:31 pm

Biltong wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:This would ultimately be very bad for NZ rugby. The money and market in S15 are SA's. In the NH it's England and France. If NZ retreat into a cozy NZ v AUS club setup the clear and obvious danger is that the salary gulf between such a competition and Frances league will be gigantic, and talent will follow the money.

Pretending that NZ can play some kind of club game that is superior to everyone else's, when the best international players are all plying their trade in SA, Eng and France is delusional.

Murdoch tying in the Saffers is the only hope that NZRFU have in preventing players leaving for France or England as their pay grows.

But that audience will soon get bored at looking at the Stormers playing the Sharks for the nth time. I'd also imagine that the Crusaders & Chiefs among others get a few bums on seats when they play in SA.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the standard of SA rugby dropped considerably during the apartheid years because they were not playing teams outside of SA.

In the Apartheid years we didn't play tests against other countries, not playing Super Rugby is not the same thing

The bar has been raised now though which would give say the Kiwis and Australians an advantage to be playing regularly against different style teams. Super Rugby gives SA a great opportunity to compete with the ABs.

True, but that goes both ways, Steve Tew said the NZRU wants SA in Super Rugby as we prepare their players for test rugby.

Of course it works both ways, but SA would be the only ones cutting themselves off completely from Super Rugby. The Kiwis would still be competing with the Aussies.

by Sin é Thu 17 Apr 2014, 6:35 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Wasn't his salary funded by special sponsorship or something? Vaguely remember something along those lines but don't know the validity.

How much was he on? How much were comparable wages in France?

Edit: and I 100% agree with the last bit

I think when he first came he was on 350K very annum. When he renewed his contract with Munster, they did say that he had turned down a lot more money to stay with Munster (and he is still living in Cork), so he and his family are very settled here.

by Taylorman Fri 18 Apr 2014, 1:56 am

Sin é wrote:That doesn't explain why Doug Howlett came to Munster even though he would have got a lot more in France.

Lifestyle has a lot to do with it as well. I think the Kiwis like Ireland for instance because its similar to New Zealand - sparse population, agricultural rather than industrial country, speaks English. It makes it easier for them and their families to settle here.

Thats true, and theres also those with heritage- i.e.- Maitland went to Scotland not because of the tropical beaches but because of his ancestory- he wanted to play International rugby and couldnt quite reach that here. For those who believe players should commit to one country and stick with it obviously dont have personal ambitions of playing test matches at places like Twickenham and Murrayfield etc.

French ancestory is very much the exception in NZ compared to those across the channel.

by Guest Fri 18 Apr 2014, 1:11 pm

I think that people think that money is all that counts in rugby these days.

by Taylorman Fri 18 Apr 2014, 9:04 pm

ebop wrote:I think that people think that money is all that counts in rugby these days.

Its certainly whats ruining the sxv. I don't like conference matches anymore, because it ruins chances elsewhere of our own teams in relation to Oz and SA. It was ok when everyone played everyone, because all teams really were equal. Now we are being asked to beat each other up more.

Though oddly...since conference matches started, the AB win % has gone in one direction...up. Perhaps playing stronger conference matches plays a part here. Our sides donr get as many weak matches...though this year weak is a very relative term.

by RuggerFan Sat 19 Apr 2014, 9:50 am

The aussies and kiwis are losing a lot of TV money due to the really really low audiences for the games in SA. Broadcasting regular season games at 3AM is madness. IMO Aus and NZ should form their own round robin competition. SA and Arg should form their own round robin competition. And there should be a HEC-like competition where more teams can be included.

by **Biltong** Sat 19 Apr 2014, 12:04 pm

We aren't interested in playing Argentinian teams, they don't even have a professional setup.

We should either reduce Super rugby to nine teams or go on our own.

by Portnoy's Complaint Sat 19 Apr 2014, 1:05 pm

Biltong wrote:We aren't interested in playing Argentinian teams, they don't even have a professional setup.

We should either reduce Super rugby to nine teams or go on our own.

Wasn't an Argentinian pro set-up originally a pre-condition of them joining the 4Ns, Bilt, or am I just imagining that?

by **Biltong** Sat 19 Apr 2014, 1:08 pm

As far as I remember the condition was that their top players had to be available for the tournament Portnoy.

by Portnoy's Complaint Sat 19 Apr 2014, 1:16 pm

I do seem to recall a SH insistence or something about a pro structure in Argentina.

It was about the time when Italy were being nominated for introduction in the 5/6Ns and I was supporting the inclusion of Argentina based in Spain.

So it was some time ago, but there were definitely noises.

by **Biltong** Sat 19 Apr 2014, 1:24 pm

Not so long ago there was an interview shown on SA tv where the Argentinian president of rugby said they want to keep their domestic rugby amateur, but there are current talks of one Argentinian team in Super rugby, the question is how they will finance a professional league.

by The Saint Sat 19 Apr 2014, 1:31 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:SA could approach Wales, they would consider jumping into bed with any country.

Oh dear me! Come on, we'd only jump into bed with our favourite neighbours (England).

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 21 Apr 2014, 9:30 am

The Saint wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:SA could approach Wales, they would consider jumping into bed with any country.

Oh dear me! Come on, we'd only jump into bed with our favourite neighbours (England).

Bet you'd say that to all the guys Hug

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