The Official Irish Provinces Rugby Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Fans of Ulster, Leinster, Munster and Connacht unite! A place is here to talk of your teams.

Discuss the Pro12 run-in, the provinces prospects in Europe next season, the tour to Argentina and why we're generally just the best. I mean, just how great are we? Lets talk about that.

But mainly whatever feckin' thing comes into your head!

[ME-109]

Munster coaching staff has been confirmed...

Manager - Niall O Donovan
Head Coach - Axel Foley
Mick O'Driscoll - Technical Advisor and B&I team
Jerry Flannery - Scrum Coach and Academy and Underage squads.
Brian Walsh - Attach Coach and Backs
Ian Costelloe - Defence and Kicking.

MMac, Bluemuff, Prof, Sin É...any thoughts on this.....better/worse/a gamble etc. Personally I think its good. The proof will be in the pudding though.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I said this when Penny was appointed and I believe that it rings true still, I think Munster of all the provinces actually need to recruit from outside. I think from an attacking perspective they need to move away from their old Munster ethos.

I know next to nothing about Walsh really so maybe he is a lad who can make that happen, I really hope so, because Munster are still really archaic in their attack and with such great attacking players as Zebo and Earls that really shouldn't be the case.

[ME-109]

Walsh was Cork con coach for ten years (finished with them last year). Is a very good coach and ex Munster centre (pre professional). Generally his teams played good running rugby and scored plenty of tries. Con topped the AIL five years in a row under him . Its a big step up but he should have been involved in a more direct role with Munster previously. He is a bit of a maverick and has been annoying the IRFU about the state of the AIL and club rugby for years.

I think he will bring a more direct approach but its not like he is a complete newbie with no experience at all. Anything would be better than some of the rubbish we have been serving up this year.

[rodders]

I don't agree Pete- I think Munster have played probably the best attacking rugby out of the provinces and were developing well under Penney.

A lot of it was focused around Lualua and his offloading though - with the likes of Earls and Zebo running off him -  so he will be a big loss.

Munster are in a decent enough place relative to the other provinces I think - decent pack, ok depth, youthful age profile - but you never know how things will go with a new coaching team.

[Thomond]

Our backs can't really be as bad as they were under Mannix. Don't watch a lot of 1A AIL but Walsh did great work with Con. Flannery surprised me a bit but always comes across as a guy who would be extremely knowledgable and worked his ass off to get where he was. O'Driscoll was working with CBC I'm sure did relatively well with them. I suppose you would have to give them a year to see how it really goes, right now I'd be happy enough with it.

They're going the Bayern Munich way of keeping the old lads hanging around, I'm not against it but it tends to have mixed success. Time will tell

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I think Ulster have had the best attack all season, I do think also that the times they get to the big games, they go back to old school Munster, it works well without a doubt but to beat the best teams you need to have more IMO.

Like the sound of this Walsh lad though from what ME has said, so hopefully he will do well and really bring on the exciting backs. Would like Munster to have an IE centre (and maybe they will) as it would get them playing with these Irish coaches.

[MunsterMac]

Well first of all any improvement in back play will be better than the rubbish we've seen over the last couple of years.

by rodders Today at 9:31 am

I don't agree Pete- I think Munster have played probably the best attacking rugby out of the provinces and were developing well under Penney.

I'd really like if you could provide utube evidence of that 'cause most of what I've seen over the last 2 years is the infamous east - west game plan, knock-ons and mistakes, players being drawn to and over the touchline, Lualua's offloads which give his teammates no chance to gather, etc, etc.

Other than that the main positive I can see from this group is that they will all be singing off the same hymn sheet.

I think we need to go back to basics and play to out strengths but with more cohesive back play.

We have a serious amount of talent in the pack now with decent replacements in most positions as well and with Zebo, Earls, Murphy, Conway, O'Dea, JJ, Murray etc in the backs we have a lot to work with there as well.

[ME-109]

Rodders our attack was very poor at times. East/west (repeat ad-naseum) with some games when it clicked (Toulouse). With the amount of possession we had in games it would drive you mental watching it. The games we played well were when we were direct with hard running backs and forwards. To be honest Casey isnt going to be missed too much by Munster fans nor is Downey. They were OK.

I think the coaching team are interesting overall. Foley is no dope and knows what he is about. You are not going to see a return to conservative rugby with Walsh coaching the backs but we arent going to be as aimless as we were this year. Time will tell as Thomond said.

[profitius]

Walsh was Cork con coach for ten years (finished with them last year). Is a very good coach and ex Munster centre (pre professional). Generally his teams played good running rugby and scored plenty of tries. Con topped the AIL five years in a row under him . Its a big step up but he should have been involved in a more direct role with Munster previously. He is a bit of a maverick and has been annoying the IRFU about the state of the AIL and club rugby for years.

I think he will bring a more direct approach but its not like he is a complete newbie with no experience at all. Anything would be better than some of the rubbish we have been serving up this year.

Good to see that. Cork Con were dominant for long periods under him and the Munster players from Con are technically good players.

I think Mannix was a bluffer. Munster played awful rugby under him and the players had bad habits like crabbing sideways, wrong option taking etc. I think it was a bit beyond Mannix. is racing metro side played as badly when he was backs coach there.

[thebandwagonsociety]

It was always going to be difficult to get a backline motoring it the team set up kept having POC or DOC as the winger whenever the ball was spun wide. Other teams would do that option but have a quick backrow player there to secure the breakdown, Munster seemed to pass it to the lock to take on the contact and then have the centre/back3 player try to clear out and give clean ball to the scrumhalf. Madness when you think about it. Sucked pace out of the game. Put the power player on the floor and unable to secure possession at the breakdown and meant the lightweight backline player had to commit in order to secure possession.

With Keatley and JJ maturing in the outhalf position, and the group of backs to choose from they should really start to look at high tempo backline moves whenever the forwards aren't trucking it up around the rucks.

[ME-109]

Walsh was Cork con coach for ten years (finished with them last year). Is a very good coach and ex Munster centre (pre professional). Generally his teams played good running rugby and scored plenty of tries. Con topped the AIL five years in a row under him . Its a big step up but he should have been involved in a more direct role with Munster previously. He is a bit of a maverick and has been annoying the IRFU about the state of the AIL and club rugby for years.

I think he will bring a more direct approach but its not like he is a complete newbie with no experience at all. Anything would be better than some of the rubbish we have been serving up this year.

Good to see that. Cork Con were dominant for long periods under him and the Munster players from Con are technically good players.

I think Mannix was a bluffer. Munster played awful rugby under him and the players had bad habits like crabbing sideways, wrong option taking etc. I think it was a bit beyond Mannix. is racing metro side played as badly when he was backs coach there.

Completely agree...wonder why Penney stuck with him...he doesnt seem like a coach to suffer fools gladly...maybe he had no choice.

[BlueMuff]

I think Walsh is the best and only original appointment! He is very good friends with foley but he has been coaching for some years now! Flan and mod smacks of jobs for the lads!

Overall it's the not worst coaching staff in the world but they won't be given much time to get things right! Normally I wouldn't agree with this but these guts are not new to Munster and must have already identified areas for improvement!

[thebandwagonsociety]

Intensity and performance levels are erratic. They can thrash Toulouse (granted a poor Toulouse but they really put them to the sword) and then go completely flat within a week. Fitness seemed good across the squad any time I saw them play. It's mental. Maybe having a Fla, Foley and Walsh about during warm ups might make sure everyone is tuned in on match day...that seemed to be the problem.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Michael Noone has been released by Leicester. He covers 6 and 8, could be a decent squad player for either Connacht or Ulster?

[SecretFly]

Appalling act of only recruiting Irish coaches. A pure bonafide case of anti-New Zealandism!!!!!! and maybe even getting on for criminal anti-Fair-Go-Mateism!!!

Munster should be fined by the IRFNZU to teach them some harsh lessons about inclusiveness.

[Notch]

Michael Noone has been released by Leicester. He covers 6 and 8, could be a decent squad player for either Connacht or Ulster?

Ulster do need additional cover in the back row. We'll wait and see who signs on.

[Notch]

Wouldn't be rushing to pass judgment on Munsters new coaching staff. Foley seems like a very smart guy... should be interesting. I don't think they'll be going straight back to 10-man rugby, Walsh sounds like he knows how to implement a more rounded style and Foley will have learned a lot from the current set-up. They should forsake the worst excesses of Penney/Mannix east to west stuff though.

Really a lot rests on the two new centres they have signed who are unknown quantities (similar to Ulster and our front row signings)

[SecretFly]

.... and Jerry will take care of the Red Mist Sessions.

[ME-109]

I believe the first thing Foley is going to do is to have diction lessons so all the coaching staff will lose their Limerick and Cork accents and talk with a New Zealand accent..... all together now "fush en chups" . This is in the vain hope that the Munster players think that they really have New Zealand coaches and therefore will play better....

[geoff998rugby]

Michael Noone has been released by Leicester. He covers 6 and 8, could be a decent squad player for either Connacht or Ulster?

Just what Ulster need + 1 more in the backrow

[geoff998rugby]

Topic camer up on the Ulster thread there

Out of interest who are the Provinces NIE and NIQ for next year

Ulster - NIE: Pienaer (2017), der Merwe (2016), Williams(2015), Hogg ???? NIQ - Herbst(2017)

I'd appreciate if othe province supporters could chip in with their list

[MunsterMac]

Very interesting articles in the papers this morning about how Munster are going to refocus their priorities from next season.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/munster-to-make-pro12-top-priority-next-season-fitzgerald-30294775.html

And about time in my opinion.

The imbalance in focus and energy between the Pro 12 and the HC has really hurt Munster in recent years both on and off the field and I have no doubt this will be a good change if it come to pass.

Focus more on the bread and butter and the cream will look after itself.

[Sin é]

Munster's NIE/Projects are: BJ (prop), Stander (backrow/Project), Andrew Smith* (centre), Bleyenthal* (10/centre), van den Heefer*.

*Can all become Ireland qualified eventually.

BJ has 1 more year
Stander has 2 (will become IQ in during next world cup).
Andrew Smith (1 year)
Bleyenthal 3 years
Van den Heefer (2 years).

Just on BJ - he has been a terrific signing for Munster. I know he had some injury issues just before leaving Ulster, but that guy has been putting in some huge shifts for Munster in the last year. I think you guys got the dud with Afoa.

[geoff998rugby]

Afoa was a star for one year but a disappointment for the second.
BJ had to go as he agreed a contract and then came back asking for more - he has done well for Munster though.

What is interesting from the Munster list is BJ is the only player NIE

I have edited the Ulster list to show end of contract dates

[rodders]

What is interesting from the Munster list is BJ is the only player NIE

Which fits with what I heard Geoff regarding the reduction in marquee NIQs and a focus on IQ signings and project players. Connacht being the exception with the IRFU prepared to give them the treatment Ulster had and signing guys like Mulienna (sp) to give them a boost.

[geoff998rugby]

Agreed - I can see us not replacing Williams next year.

Contract negotiations this year would also point in this direction - I suspect Daniels was too expensive.
Hogg will be cheaper than Ludik and der Merwe will not be on the salary Muller was getting and Herbst will be nowhere near Afoa's salary
All point to a cutting of costs on NIE players

[SecretFly]

Very interesting articles in the papers this morning about how Munster are going to refocus their priorities from next season.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/munster-to-make-pro12-top-priority-next-season-fitzgerald-30294775.html

And about time in my opinion.

The imbalance in focus and energy between the Pro 12 and the HC has really hurt Munster in recent years both on and off the field and I have no doubt this will be a good change if it come to pass.

Focus more on the bread and butter and the cream will look after itself.

T'aint necessarily so. And I'd argue that relative success in both (Pro12 and HEC) over the years has been largely due to a rhythm designed to prioritise HEC.

Munster have simply fallen off the radar because that's what cycles are - just look at the great Toulouse.  In my opinion it would have had very little to do with where they have been focusing their energies.  The players will still think of Europe and mentally, if not physically, many of them will still preserve some of their fire for Europe.  That's just the way things go.  Players are players - they're ambitious, they have careers they need to promote.  Munster has been at the top before.  Their current and future ambitions will be informed by that past that they can't and won't simply brush under the carpet now.

So as a psychological ploy for a resurgence of fortunes perhaps the Pro12 concentration chat is a tool Foley and his coaches will use.  But not for a second will he want or encourage a strong presence in Pro12 at the expense of semi-final or final shots at the new European event.  Munster just can't afford to sit on Pro12 laurels. Their history and the folk memory of its players and followers will not allow that to happen.

[Notch]

Well things have changed SF. Ulster have been in the knockout stages four times in a row and won all six group games this year yet could be in the third tier of seeds due to finishing fourth in the league.

The best way to win this new Cup is the same as the old way, to be a top seed. The only way to guarantee a top seeding is winning your league.

[MunsterMac]

I don't agree Secret.

I think Munster have finally seen the reality that you can't run a successful, modern pro club by focusing misty eyed on European glory and leaving the league to tend itself.

Munster cannot be successful unless they prove to the paying public that every time they enter the turnstiles at either TP or MP what they will witness is a Munster team champing at the bit to tear the opponents of the day apart regardless of whether it is the HC or the Pro12.

That way more people will want attend each match regardless of the competition / opposition.

Why would any floating supporter in their right mind want to pay to go and see a repeat of the Treviso / Glasgow / Ulster performances of the last few weeks?

Floating support will only want to go to see Munster play regularly when they are reasonably sure that what they will see is a motivated team who are desperate to do the jersey proud irrespective of the competition of the day.

[SecretFly]

Well things have changed SF. Ulster have been in the knockout stages four times in a row and won all six group games this year yet could be in the third tier of seeds due to finishing fourth in the league.

The best way to win this new Cup is the same as the old way, to be a top seed. The only way to guarantee a top seeding is winning your league.

That's the very thing PRL and Top14 wanted.  A feverish fight for qualification within the Pro12 format.  And the sides that truly fall for that restructuring mechanism will slide further away from European standards when the European fights happen - not closer.

The new format is a bluff to bluff Irish sides away from concentrating on Europe.  If Foley and his coaches really believe Pro12 league lordship is the route to getting to Europe, then that's exactly where they might get to.  But it won't see them close to the semis or finals.  And what ambition is that?  To be in Europe but to be merely another cannon fodder side?

No.  Any side with real ambitions will have to hold themselves a little in check through Pro12.  The foolish sides won't realise that and they'll go ahead and do exactly as their 'Masters' (English and French) want them to do - they'll fight tooth and nail for Pro12 positioning.  They'll drag wiser sides then into that battle just to survive and the PRL and Top14 will snigger quietly at a job well done.

I'm picking on people like Foley to be wiser than all that and try to manage the ship that it's designed to breathe in bouts of high intensity and lesser intensity smarts - and then perhaps have enough to still engage in two battles rather than be satisfied with the lesser one.

[Notch]

It's all true. But they won, we lost. They get top seeds regardless of their performance at the highest level. What can we do?

What the PRL/LNR have done to European rugby is the bitterest pill to swallow but we are left with little choice.

[rodders]

I think the future of Irish rugby, and professional NH rugby, depends on our sides not being dependent or focused on - the now Franglo administered - European competitions. Otherwise we will forever be at the whim of the PRL moneymen.

Pardon my French but f**k Europe. F**k BT (even though your coverage is awesome) and F**k the PRL.

Our focus should follow the Heineken.

[SecretFly]

Why would any floating supporter in their right mind want to pay to go and see a repeat of the Treviso / Glasgow / Ulster performances of the last few weeks?

Because that's not new...  that's always been the way.  And it didn't lose Munster fans when it proved itself a winning mechanism.  Yes, the climate of world rugby has changed but that makes the idea of going out - week in and week out - thrashing the opposition and having your fans (floating and non-floating) drooling with the excitement of it all only less a realistic prospect than it once was.  You have to be more astute with the energy reserves, not less so.  You do have to pick and choose your times as very few opposition sides now are roll over sides. Munster tried Europe - didn't make it, but got pretty close! - and then paid the price in Pro12. Nothing new in that. Leinster have been a victim of choices, choices too in other years. That's competition and that's managing resources.

An all out heavyweight firefight between all sides in Pro12, every week, might be a recipe for more floating action fans taking to the game in Ireland - but I guarantee you, the players that matter in world rugby terms will still want Europe and they'll sign themselves to it by transfering to countries that will be competitive in it and will have the salaries that will make the whole idea even more inviting.  

If Irish rugby wants to survive it must not forget Europe.  We're not big enough to have squads that can give their all in all games through a season.  We'll have to prioritise - OR - we'll just accept the classification the English and French have stamped onto us.  "Have yourselves a better, more exciting, punishing Pro12 and enjoy it - and we'll get on with the big business of big European games fought between our superclub sides and attracting the best players."

[ME-109]

Munster have a growing problem with their supporters (core and floating) due to some of the performances this year. 16K turned up at the Ulster game and about 14K at the Glasgow game and they were served up rubbish. In addition the crap games are played in Musgrave Park.

Fitzgerald is just using the new qualification rules to do some pre-emptive marketing as there is a need to grow support and get more punters in the door. To be honest I dont see any difference from last year. We did actually target the league but the HC got in the way (and vice versa). There was an inability in the team to be consistent in both. To a certain extent its part of the Munster psyche from the old days where players are brought up to play championship/cup rugby but the league is viewed as a sort of training run.

This is not a major shift really.

[rodders]

If Irish rugby wants to survive it must not forget Europe.

We should turn up, send our B sides out, take our TV money and go home. Let the franglos belly flop it out to be BT eurostars.

[SecretFly]

If Irish rugby wants to survive it must not forget Europe.

We should turn up, send our B sides out, take our TV money and go home. Let the franglos belly flop it out to be BT eurostars.

Beshocked will be a happy man!!!
"These low standard Pro12 outfits like Ulsterbre.. I mean... is it Ulstorre or something???? - and that Lennystairs side don't have the Merit to be even allowed into Europe even when they qualify on merit.  Qualification is a meritless idea that should be scrapped.  It should just be a Saracens and Toulon every year.  It's marketting sense and the TV aerials on chimneys (oops! BT VISION dishes) approve of the rule change."

[geoff998rugby]

Anyway does someone know the Connacht and Leinster NIQ players lists for next year?

[rodders]

Can't wait to see McCafferty's face when Mike McComish is leading out our Ravens side in the group stages next year - w*nker.

[ME-109]

Whatever about the rights or wrongs (mainly wrongs) of the new situation...it is what it is. I think all three top provinces will be still competitive, this year misfortune and away fixtures were more an issue than money and we could easily be looking at an Ulster/Munster final next weekend.

One positive will be that if the Pro12 becomes more competitive then developing players will be expected to step up a little more. I think the system in Ireland will ensure that we are competitive going forward....

[MunsterMac]

ME-109 Today at 11:32 am

To be honest I dont see any difference from last year. We did actually target the league but the HC got in the way (and vice versa). There was an inability in the team to be consistent in both. To a certain extent its part of the Munster psyche from the old days where players are brought up to play championship/cup rugby but the league is viewed as a sort of training run.

This is not a major shift really.

I don't agree that this isn't a shift.

I think the clear message is being sent out to:

A) the players that end of season collapses where the players 'fall in love with themselves' will not be acceptable from now on and

B) the paying public that they can expect a far more committed  and sustained assault on the Pro12 from now on so maybe they should consider a season ticket / attending matches more frequently.

[Sin é]

If Irish rugby wants to survive it must not forget Europe.

We should turn up, send our B sides out, take our TV money and go home. Let the franglos belly flop it out to be BT eurostars.

My thinking as well. With Sky now broadcasting the Pro12, it won't be long before the Pro12 is the best league in the world.

Its fairly significant that Sky are broadcasting it now because with them it will be made available in the SH. And with BT sponsoring the Welsh & Scottish teams, I'd imagine that Sky will be concentrating on bigging up the Irish Provinces which will be great for the Provinces.

While everyone seems to think that the Pro12 teams are going to find the new Champ Cup difficult to compete in because of having to concentrate a bit more on the league, the same thing applies to the English & French clubs - all their teams are going to have more money.

I think people worry too much about the amount of money that the French & English clubs will have - all it means is that players will be demanding bigger pay and the Irish provinces can't compete with them.

I also think that the new European cup is going to have a few difficult years ahead of it - they seem to have difficulty getting sponsors and apparently are finding it difficult to find people to move to Switzerland to run the organisation.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Moved from Ulster thread

Holy sh!te. I just looked this up. Is it really correct that only one non-Irish qualified player is allowed to play across the 15 positions for Ulster, Leinster and Munster? Seems very harsh. How does that work with loose forwards who can play more than one position?

Sorry to come late to the party but I would think (hope) that I wasn't the only person on these boards not to know this.

For a policy that is supposed to be defunct it seems to be still hanging together fairly well. I think it was downgraded to a "guideline" fairly soon after announcement.

Munster are full now, most of their signings could one day qualify for Ireland though.

Ulster have a free spot with Payne becoming IQ

Leinster have at least 1. Or 2 if Roux leaves.

1 Botha 2015
2 ???
3 Herbst 2017
4 Van der Merwe 2016
5 Douglas. 2017 Roux??? May be leaving. (Has contract to 2015 though)
6 Stander 2016
7 ???
8 Williams 2016
9 Pienaar 2017
10 Gopperth 2015
11 Van den Heever 2015
12 Bleyendaal 2017
13 Smith 2015
14 ???
15 Kirchner 2015

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Its fairly significant that Sky are broadcasting it now because with them it will be made available in the SH.

It already is.

[Notch]

I still have the same philosophy- I want Ulster to try and go as far as possible in both competitions. The issue we face is having a squad strong enough for us to rotate effectively enough not to lose steam in the league and that hasn't changed.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Moved from Ulster thread

Holy sh!te. I just looked this up. Is it really correct that only one non-Irish qualified player is allowed to play across the 15 positions for Ulster, Leinster and Munster? Seems very harsh. How does that work with loose forwards who can play more than one position?

Sorry to come late to the party but I would think (hope) that I wasn't the only person on these boards not to know this.

For a policy that is supposed to be defunct it seems to be still hanging together fairly well. I think it was downgraded to a "guideline" fairly soon after announcement.

Munster are full now, most of their signings could one day qualify for Ireland though.

Ulster have a free spot with Payne becoming IQ

Leinster have at least 1. Or 2 if Roux leaves.

1 Botha 2015
2 ???
3 Herbst 2017
4 Van der Merwe 2016
5 Douglas. 2017 Roux??? May be leaving. (Has contract to 2015 though)
6 Stander 2016
7 ???
8 Williams 2016
9 Pienaar 2017
10 Gopperth 2015
11 Van den Heever 2015
12 Bleyendaal 2017
13 Smith 2015
14 ???
15 Kirchner 2015

Nope, you were - pls try to keep up!

[geoff998rugby]

Moved from Ulster thread

Holy sh!te. I just looked this up. Is it really correct that only one non-Irish qualified player is allowed to play across the 15 positions for Ulster, Leinster and Munster? Seems very harsh. How does that work with loose forwards who can play more than one position?

Sorry to come late to the party but I would think (hope) that I wasn't the only person on these boards not to know this.

For a policy that is supposed to be defunct it seems to be still hanging together fairly well. I think it was downgraded to a "guideline" fairly soon after announcement.

Munster are full now, most of their signings could one day qualify for Ireland though.

Ulster have a free spot with Payne becoming IQ

Leinster have at least 1. Or 2 if Roux leaves.

1 Botha 2015
2 ???
3 Herbst 2017
4 Van der Merwe 2016
5 Douglas. 2017 Roux??? May be leaving. (Has contract to 2015 though)
6 Stander 2016
7 ???
8 Williams 2016
9 Pienaar 2017
10 Gopperth 2015
11 Van den Heever 2015
12 Bleyendaal 2017
13 Smith 2015
14 ???
15 Kirchner 2015

Well Botha is a TH not a LH.
Hogg will be signing - another 15

You are always going to get a spread but
3 in 2 positions
8 in 1 position
4 in 0 posiitions

suggests to me the idea has manifestly been debunked

Nick Williams is 2015 by the way not 2016

[Mickado]

As for the loose forward who can play different positions, as Jen says, it's just a guide line, Stander has played at 8 plenty of times this year, Kirchner on the wing etc.

[rodders]

Kirchener is playing 14......   

[Notch]

I'm afraid Nick Williams is 2016. His stock has fallen somewhat since signing the deal. Hope he recaptures the form and work ethic of his first season.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24365053

[geoff998rugby]

As for the loose forward who can play different positions, as Jen says, it's just a guide line, Stander has played at 8 plenty of times this year, Kirchner on the wing etc.

Thing is I dont think it is a even a guideline.

My understanding is the IRFU discuss each individual contract on its merits.
Now this may lead to a spread due to individaul Provincial needs and a desire to ensure Ireland having a minimum number of players in each position.

I believe if one provinces had, say 5 World Class backrowers, who were all happy to stay there they would be open to the other 2 senior provinces have a whole raft of NIQ backrowers in their squads if that was necessary to sustain their teams.

When the Provinces revolted in broad terms I think what was agreed was:
Reduce the money spent on NIQ
Reduce the number of NIQ
Each case to be discuss on its individual merits
Put in place a system where players moved between provinces more
No restrictions regarding position as long as it does not adversely impact Ireland

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