Ulster vs Leinster; Official Opening of the New Ravenhill Stadium

First topic message reminder :

Ulster play Leinster on Friday night on the very special official opening of Ulster Rugbys newly redeveloped home. More team news to follow later in the week but until then enjoy these photos from the construction of the original Ravenhill grandstand and the first ever game held at Ravenhill- the same fixture, Ulster vs Leinster, in January 1924. Ulster won, here's hoping for a bit of the spirit of 1924!

The stadium has a rich history having hosted Irelands decisive win against Wales which secured our first ever Grand Slam in 1948, a famous win for Ulster over Australia in 1984 and wins over Toulouse and Stade Francais by a semi-professional Ulster side en route to winning the European Cup in 1999.

This is the beginning of a new era for the stadium and for the team, and it's time for a new generation of players to write their own history- starting on Friday. There will be an opening ceremony at 7pm and the game kicks off at 7.30pm.

Photos from the Opening of Ravenhill, 1924:

Opening Ceremony Details:

The teams are up;

LEINSTER

15: Rob Kearney 14: Zane Kirchner 13: Brian O'Driscoll 12: Gordon D'Arcy 11: Dave Kearney 10: Ian Madigan 9: Isaac Boss
1: Cian Healy 2: Sean Cronin 3: Martin Moore 4: Devin Toner 5: Mike McCarthy 6: Rhys Ruddock 7: Shane Jennings 8: Jamie Heaslip (captain)

REPLACEMENTS: 16: Richardt Strauss 17: Jack McGrath 18: Mike Ross 19: Leo Cullen 20: Jordi Murphy 21: Luke McGrath 22: Jimmy Gopperth 23: Luke Fitzgerald

ULSTER

15: Ricky Andrew 14: Andrew Trimble 13: Jared Payne 12: Luke Marshall 11: Tommy Bowe 10: Paddy Jackson 9: Paul Marshall
1: Tom Court 2: Rob Herring 3: Andrew Warwick 4: Johann Muller (captain) 5: Iain Henderson 6: Roger Wilson 7: Chris Henry 8: Nick Williams;

REPLACEMENTS: 16: Niall Annett 17: Callum Black 18: Adam Macklin 19: Dan Tuohy 20: Sean Doyle 21: Michael Heaney 22: James McKinney 23: Darren Cave

At Ravenhill, 7.30pm. Live on RTE/ BBC NI

Referee: Luke Pearce (RFU, 1st competition game)
Assistant Referees: John Lacey, David Connolly (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Eugene Ryan (IRFU)
TMO: Dermot Molony (IRFU)

The main thing I would disagree with was that I think the Kearney one might have been a PT. Seems daft that we would have been better off if Paddy had not grounded the ball.

MrsP wrote:The main thing I would disagree with was that I think the Kearney one might have been a PT. Seems daft that we would have been better off if Paddy had not grounded the ball.

It is completely strange but accurate... penalty try can only be awarded if a player commits a foul which prevents a try being scored. Jackson scores the try, so no penalty try can be awarded!

Typical Ulster... even when we score a try we find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot! Oh you have to laugh.

Yeah that really should have been a PT,Jackson was very gracious in his interview when the guy asked him if it should have been a red card he looked at him like he was nuts and said "for Rob,no way".

The ref obviously wasn't up to the job - who picked him?

At the very least the game should have been a draw, and those two points could make all the difference to whomever gets home advantage for the final and so potentially decide the outcome of the league. That's unarguably unacceptable.

Leinster need to check O'Connor's contract PDQ to see if there's an escape clause.

I'm struggling to remember a RC for a high tackle?

Is it just my imagination or are RCs becoming almost normal?

Before the Payne one I am struggling to remember an Ulster RC?

I was just saying to my Dad in all the time we have been going to Ravenhill together there's have never been a red card for an Ulster player... until the last month.

The first game he took me to was in 1995 and we've been season ticket holders for six years, so thats really something.

Last game I can remember a red card in that featured Ulster was Bath vs Ulster in the Rec and Danny Grewcock got sent off.

Was there one ages ago for a second yellow?

Caldwell maybe? he used to get so many "technical" offences against him it was quite likey to have been him.

Well done Leinster. Well played.

But if we get youse at the RDS, and don't get a red (is that likely? ) on current form, we'll munch you.

Also, Ian Madigan. Good luck with that.

I'm all for congratulating the opposition but I doubt many Leinster fans felt they played well?

But I still should have said well done.

Maybe some fans have both eyes shut.

Court should and most likely will be banned for the duration. Just like Kearney.

Kearney deserves the longer ban but it might just give him a summer off.

A very ugly first half (so ugly I couldn't take my eyes off it). Dire 2nd.

My conclusion is that Leinster are in decline. And they've now left the nursery slopes of the downhill.

Dunno about Ulster. The last three times I've seen them was at WR against a depleted Leicester but they were very, very sound and competent, and the last two - well they shot themselves.

Don Alfonso wrote:Well done Leinster. Well played.

But if we get youse at the RDS,  and don't get a red (is that likely? )  on current form,  we'll munch you.

Also, Ian Madigan.  Good luck with that.

MOC's management of the 10s has destroyed Madigan's confidence. He was obviously in great form last year but the uncertainty around the 10 postion has ruined him and he has even admitted that in interviews; where he said he is afraid to make mistakes because he knows he will be dropped for Jimmy in the next game which is completely against his natural game.

MOC will see out his contract and then will be gone.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Maybe some fans have both eyes shut.

Court should and most likely will be banned for the duration. Just like Kearney.

Kearney deserves the longer ban but it might just give him a summer off.

A very ugly first half (so ugly I couldn't take my eyes off it). Dire 2nd.

My conclusion is that Leinster are in decline. And they've now left the nursery slopes of the downhill.

Dunno about Ulster. The last three times I've seen them was at WR against a depleted Leicester but they were very, very sound and competent, and the last two - well they shot themselves.

We have ourselves a genius. Please share with us how you come to these conclusions that nobody else has pointed out   

ahem.... Well done, Leinster      

Yet another controversial big game, and yet another which leaves me with a jumble of emotions, and thoughts. Ok, the thoughts are always jumbled   

Under the most recent directives, I have no issue with the ref showing Court the red, but I do have an issue with the fact the ref had no other option. These laws are going to need to be reviewed over the summer, otherwise we will see an unnecessary increase in games being decided by cards, and play being shaped accordingly. Unless the IRB actually wants to turn fans away from the game, then they need to address this issue promptly.

None of the above excuses Court. He should have known better.

Another great battling display by a 14 man Ulster, who again had a chance of winning right up to the last minute. As proud as I am of their response, it would be nice to watch them play with 15 men for a full 80 minutes. We really, really, need to sort out our discipline, and fast if we are to have any chance winning this competition.

Small Paul has improved over the last few games. Great to see. He looked liked he was going backwards for a while. Well, he was. Cave played great coming off the bench I thought. The best 13 in Ireland, methinks.

The decline is fairly obvious, L4L, Sexton has gone and Madigan can't fill his boots, And the team looks stale, old and generally past its sell by. Refs are wise to their strategic practices and the set piece is becoming almost sad.

Too old and too observed to do their naughties imo in a nutshell.

I switched over and watched for a few minutes. Putting the outcome aside, Ravenhill really looked terrific.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Well done Leinster. Well played.

But if we get youse at the RDS,  and don't get a red (is that likely? )  on current form,  we'll munch you.

Also, Ian Madigan.  Good luck with that.

MOC's management of the 10s has destroyed Madigan's confidence. He was obviously in great form last year but the uncertainty around the 10 postion has ruined him and he has even admitted that in interviews; where he said he is afraid to make mistakes because he knows he will be dropped for Jimmy in the next game which is completely against his natural game.

MOC will see out his contract and then will be gone.

So it's MOC's fault he's rubbish.

Fine. He's still poor.

Rob Kearney gave Paddy Jackson a low five on his way off the pitch when he was sin-binned. Always nice to see that mutual respect between international teammates.

Don Alfonso wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Well done Leinster. Well played.

But if we get youse at the RDS,  and don't get a red (is that likely? )  on current form,  we'll munch you.

Also, Ian Madigan.  Good luck with that.

MOC's management of the 10s has destroyed Madigan's confidence. He was obviously in great form last year but the uncertainty around the 10 postion has ruined him and he has even admitted that in interviews; where he said he is afraid to make mistakes because he knows he will be dropped for Jimmy in the next game which is completely against his natural game.

MOC will see out his contract and then will be gone.

So it's MOC's fault he's rubbish.

Fine. He's still poor.

Poor this season yes under MOC, he was a different player last season under Schmidt...So ye just like it was Kidney's fault Ireland's players were playing so bad the same thing applies here imo.

Who was MOM?
Please tell me it wasn't Brian.

Notch wrote:Rob Kearney gave Paddy Jackson a low five on his way off the pitch when he was sin-binned. Always nice to see that mutual respect between international teammates.

Pity about the clothesline that preceeded

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Who was MOM?
Please tell me it wasn't Brian.

Paddy Jackson

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27265361?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Awk Johann... I'll miss you. Make sure you collect the Pro12 trophy on the way out   

Missed the game. Sounds like both teams were beating the heads off each other...i for one approve of this...

In coming generations they will ask where the game of rugby died, and it will have started at Ravenhill. A YC, YC, penalty (at most) game became a RC, YC, YC game because of common sense remaining absent from all form of decision. Even the Leinster try could have ended in a RC for one of their players if the ref applied THE LAWS.....

I'm delighted we got the point. In spite of the pre match nonsense it was an enjoyable evening but the game is going to hell in a hand basket and it wasn't all one way tonight.

Standulstermen wrote:In coming generations they will ask where the game of rugby died, and it will have started at Ravenhill. A YC, YC, penalty (at most) game became a RC, YC, YC game because of common sense remaining absent from all form of decision. Even the Leinster try could have ended in a RC for one of their players if the ref applied THE LAWS.....

I'm delighted we got the point. In spite of the pre match nonsense it was an enjoyable evening but the game is going to hell in a hand basket and it wasn't all one way tonight.

The Laws need help

Are red cards the best sanction for rugby?

How did Courts spear demand 4.5 times the amount punishment of Kearneys high tackle. was it 4.5 times as bad?

Did Paynes offence against sarries warrant 7.5 yellow cards? Especially when if he came down on his shoulder it would have been 1

toml wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:In coming generations they will ask where the game of rugby died, and it will have started at Ravenhill. A YC, YC, penalty (at most) game became a RC, YC, YC game because of common sense remaining absent from all form of decision. Even the Leinster try could have ended in a RC for one of their players if the ref applied THE LAWS.....

I'm delighted we got the point. In spite of the pre match nonsense it was an enjoyable evening but the game is going to hell in a hand basket and it wasn't all one way tonight.

The Laws need help

Are red cards the best sanction for rugby?

How did Courts spear demand 4.5 times the amount punishment of Kearneys high tackle. was it 4.5 times as bad?

Did Paynes offence against sarries warrant 7.5 yellow cards? Especially when if he came down on his shoulder it would have been 1

To be honest, if I was coaching Ulster I would be furious with Tom Court. You can talk about the laws all you want but the fact is they're there and have been for years. Any player making a spear tackle nowadays deserves to be sent off for being an idiot.

What's been overlooked in this thread is the job Andrew Warwick did last night. Academy LH making his first senior start at TH against Cian Healy. With seven men for much of it.

After a wobbly start, I thought he did an excellent job.

Don Alfonso wrote:What's been overlooked in this thread is the job Andrew Warwick did last night. Academy LH making his first senior start at TH against Cian Healy. With seven men for much of it.

After a wobbly start, I thought he did an excellent job.

  

Andrew Warwick looks good. The future post-Tom Court is looking bright.

I think Court was unfortunate in that Moore spun big Dev a little and with a normal sized person I don't think the tip would have been as bad. That said big Dev isn't normal sized. I don't have a real problem with the ref because it is the kind of decisions the IRB seem to want to foster and refs are being encouraged to show little or no empathy with the game.

The ref got a few other decisions wrong btw but I think he was fairly decent. He just had a few nightmare scenarios to deal with IMO.

In fairness I think with 3/4 minutes left Leinster went easy on us. I was delighted to see Boss knock the ball out. Get players rested for two weeks now and hopefully get a few returnees and look forward to a rematch .......

With no cards!!!

Don Alfonso wrote:What's been overlooked in this thread is the job Andrew Warwick did last night. Academy LH making his first senior start at TH against Cian Healy. With seven men for much of it.

After a wobbly start, I thought he did an excellent job.

Agreed! At the time I remarked how little Healy appeared in the loose, because he was focused on the scrum. With experience Warwick will get better - Afoa isn't wrong about him.

Good to see Black back too - he managed to get under Moore a few times.

toml wrote:Just got up and watched the highlights.

The rule makers need to have a look at themselves otherwise rugby is going to become a joke.

Court was a red no argument.
Kearneys tackle was as dangerous for the victim as Courts was, he was hanging off Jackson's head, yet it is a yellow. Surely that is an inconsistency.

Ruddocks was not a big deal, but to referee how a player lands rather than the action/intent is bloody bizarre. If rugby became more like soccer ( let's hope not) we'd end up with the player in the air intentionally coming down on his head ( with a cheeky forearm beside it for protection) to try and deliberately sent off.
Jump into player- fall on your head- player sent off

Surely refereeing has to be on the action and perceived intent, not on the consequence.

tom I'd disagee that theres no argument over the Court red, it looked to me that Toner took himself to ground, that could be because of how his weight took him down but just went down a bit strange. Court looked distraught after the game and had to be told to take a lap with Muller

Ref was inconsistent all game, Moore popped up on Leinster scrum he ordered a reset then penalised Ulster for coming up the next time

I think the ref had a good game considering it was his first at that level. I think Toner tried to position himself to place the ball on landing, but due to IRB directives, and their recent lack of sympathy for the game, the ref didn't have much choice (There is another argument that Toner didn't actually land head first. He landed arms first). I feel bad for Court, but a player of his experience should have been a little wiser, especially in light of the Payne red card.
I agree that there is an argument of lack of consistency in the game when considering Kearney's high tackle, and Jackson being taken out in the air, but then I don't think any really deemed a red card, although the high tackle was the most dangerous. Bowe being taken out in the air also went unpunished.
On Warwick, he had a really good game considering what was required of him in this game. He has impressed since moving up from the academy, and definitely a bright prospect for the future.

Just saw the exact same offence as Court committed get a yellow in the Stormers vs Highlanders game- that clean does my head in.

I just saw you on the highlights I think!

Munchkin wrote:I think the ref had a good game considering it was his first at that level. I think Toner tried to position himself to place the ball on landing, but due to IRB directives, and their recent lack of sympathy for the game, the ref didn't have much choice (There is another argument that Toner didn't actually land head first. He landed arms first). I feel bad for Court, but a player of his experience should have been a little wiser, especially in light of the Payne red card.
I agree that there is an argument of lack of consistency in the game when considering Kearney's high tackle, and Jackson being taken out in the air, but then I don't think any really deemed a red card, although the high tackle was the most dangerous. Bowe being taken out in the air also went unpunished.
On Warwick, he had a really good game considering what was required of him in this game. He has impressed since moving up from the academy, and definitely a bright prospect for the future.

It was his first game in the Pro12 hes one of the RFUs top refs and has reffed in the HC. Watching highlights of the game he says Toner landed on his neck so not sure what he was watching

By the letter of the law Court's red card was fair enough but when you hear the ref saying he has no choice because of how the player landed it really grinds my gears. They do have a choice and in this case there was nothing Court could have done about the physics of the collision. Toner's height, the type of tackle it was and Moore's involvement could have been used in the final judgement but to say he landed on his neck therefore I have no choice is farcical. It was still reckless by Court and we can't really complain I guess unlike the Payne incident, to call it reckless is turning our sport into tag soccer.
For me Ruddocks yellow was also a cop out by the ref. He initiated the contact in the air but in competition for the ball, Kirchner tried to take the player out by reversing at him so deserved to be sitting on his butt for ten minutes more than Ruddock.
Kearney's yellow was rightfully for a high tackle, a high paced and reckless one at that but definately no more than a yellow. We should have either had the penalty try awrded or a penalty from half way at the restart.

There is definately a case for Ulster playing with 14 man in the future, for that matter lets go to Munster with 13 academy players  
Seriously though, these two big games we've played with 14 men and come close to winning against 2 incredibly strong teams has to be immensely character building. How the players dealt with it will set them up to deal with anything in the future. With returning players and if we can keep to 15 men on the pitch we can definately win this thing.

As for Warwick, I doff my cap to you young fella, what a show against the force of nature that is Cian Healey. Great, great performance. A great performance all arounf for that matter, we deserve our place in the playoffs.

SUFTUM (and the crepes and beer)

Just got round to watching game again after brig there last night. Don't think we can complain too much about the big decisions. I do think toner knew he lost the collision and was looking for the ground which is why it looked so bad. Careless from court.

Anyway I thought I would just come on and echo what has been said about Warwick. Couldn't believe how well he did after getting destroyed in first scrum. Also That was best I have seen Henderson play and think darren might have a future at 12.

Any news of the citing committee getting interested yet?

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Any news of the citing committee getting interested yet?

Whenever you get a red card, its an automatic citing.

Kearney didn't get the red he should have imo. Nor did Ulster get the PT that was merited imo.

If Jackson had dropped the ball we would have been better off! A penalty try is awarded when a penalty offence is committed that prevents the scoring of a try. A penalty from the restart is awarded when an offence is committed after the scoring of a try.

Jackson scored and the offence was before the grounding and didn't stop him grounding the ball so we got 5 points instead of 7 or 8. Stupid loophole!

I am not sure if I am correct in this but in Rugby League, if an offence has occurred before the grounding of the ball but the try is still scored then a penalty is still awarded by means of 1 conversion in the normal place followed by a second conversion in front of the posts. If I am correct in this then I do feel that is a good law to have.

You have that in union. The game is restarted with a penalty from the attacking team.

HammerofThunor wrote:You have that in union. The game is restarted with a penalty from the attacking team.

I wish someone had told Luke Pearce then. An extra three points would have seen Ulster win the game.

It happened in the Gloucester v Bath game with the 2 red cards. Also, in a Leicester v Ospreys game in the LV (36's first game I think).

Just had a look at the laws and it's slightly different. Law 22.17(c) I think. It's if a foul occurs after a try and the ball is dead. So not if a foul is committed before the try.

Although it also says that a penalty try must always be backed up with a red or yellow card.

HammerofThunor wrote:You have that in union. The game is restarted with a penalty from the attacking team.

Where in the field is the penalty awarded though?

To be honest, I have never seen an instance of this in rugby myself.

Half way line.

Thanks MrsP, I thought so. Its why I said the RL penalty style as that is the awarded on the 22 right in front of the sticks. I remember seeing that once in a RL game (after a similar incident with Jackson) and thought that it was a good rule.

Is there nothing these Leinster lads won't stoop too?

http://www.joe.ie/rugby/rugby-features/tweet-of-the-day-andrew-trimble-tells-dave-kearney-in-no-uncertain-terms-to-keep-his-hands-to-himself/