Spanish GP Thread - Contains Spoilers of Race/Qualifying

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

F1 returns to its spiritual home of Europe this weekend, with the now traditional opener of this phase of the season at the Circuit de Catalunya in Spain.

Following four flyaway races, this race is poised to be the first time any major upgrade packages are brought to the new-for-2014 cars due to the proximity to the teams' bases.

The 2014 Spanish GP in a nutshell

Track: Circuit de Catalunya. Permanent circuit.

Race start time: 1pm UK time Sunday (2pm local).

Laps: 66.

Track length: 4.655 km.

Tyre allocation: Hard (orange) and Medium (white).

DRS Zones: Two with separate detection points (Pit Straight and between Turns 9 and 10).

Driver steward: Danny Sullivan.

Lap record: Kimi Raikkonen - 1:21.670 (Ferrari; 2008).

2013 pole: Nico Rosberg - 1:20.718 (Mercedes).

Form guide

Fernando Alonso took his second win on home soil last year meaning he and Kimi Raikkonen (two) are the only multiple winners currently on the grid. Both though are a long way behind six-time victor Michael Schumacher in the overall victory tallies. Of the other current F1 drivers, Jenson Button, Felipe Massa, Sebastian Vettel and Pastor Maldonado have all stood atop the podium in Spain.

2013 result: 1. Fernando Alonso (Ferrari); 2. Kimi Raikkonen (Lotus); 3. Felipe Massa (Ferrari); 4. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 5. Mark Webber (Red Bull); 6. Nico Rosberg (Mercedes); 7. Paul Di Resta (Force India); 8. Jenson Button (McLaren); 9. Sergio Perez (McLaren); 10. Daniel Ricciardo (Toro Rosso).

Last five winners in Spain: 2013: Fernando Alonso (Ferrari); 2012: Pastor Maldonado (Williams); 2011: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2010: Mark Webber (Red Bull); 2009: Jenson Button (Brawn).

Tyre allocation

For the second time this season, after Malaysia, Pirelli are bringing the hardest two tyres in their range to the Spanish GP. The orange-marked hard tyre will serve as the weekend's 'prime' rubber and the white-marked medium the 'option' choice.

'The Montmelo circuit is well known for putting high-energy loads through the tyres, while ambient temperatures can also be notable at the Spanish Grand Prix,' Pirelli explained. 'Tarmac roughness is quite high, and the tyres on the left-hand side are particularly stressed.'

Sky Bet odds

After the first victory hat-trick of his F1 career, Lewis Hamilton unsurprisingly remains the overwhelming favourite to make it four in a row at Barcelona. Sky Bet are offering odds of 4/7 that the Briton does so, with his Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg more enticingly priced at 9/4 to end Hamilton's winning run.

Fernando Alonso is 14/1 third favourite to win on home soil again, but Red Bull at priced shorter than Ferrari (9/1 v 12/1) to become the first non-Mercedes victors of 2014.

Source:SkySports.com

[GSC]

First year he was a match but from about halfway through 2010 the car was developed to suit Vettels driving style and Webber never adapted

[GSC]

Ultimately theres a massive difference between motivation levels of Ricciardo and Webbers last year, when Webber effectively mailed it in.

I also think Vettels not at the same level as last year, I think hes trying too hard at the moment because of the advantage Mercedes have

[liverbnz]

It's probably fair to say that Vettel is adapting to driving in the pack so he'll have different strategies re stops and tyre management to consider. He'll get there though as he's too good not to. Hopefully Red Bull improve enough to make the races interesting as no one else seems capable.

[GSC]

I think frustration is beginning to bubble over at RB with regards to Renault. Horners comments about Renault pushing for these engines then starting so long behind Mercedes seem to point fingers.

Don't think Ricciardo is really part of that frustration as much as Vettel, given the car Vettels been used to.

[Guest]

We will get our answer by Canada, when the Renault engine unit is at 100%. If Mercedes power to a victory, most, if not all the teams will begin to focus on 2015. It's what happened last year. Teams knew they couldn't compete & stopped developing, hence why Vettel won nine in a row. I see Lewis & Nico winning every race, if the Renault upgrade still isn't good enough, it will ultimately demoralise the teams and end any chance of a fightback.

[GSC]

McLaren certainly because they're off to Honda so it doesn't make sense to continue developing around a Merc engine. For the rest of the teams, developing for this season and next season are kinda intertwined anyway.

[CaledonianCraig]

Webber was taking on Vettel at a very different stage of his career. But more to the point, we are only 5 races into a season and in case you haven't noticed Vettel is ahead of Ricciardo. For all we knew in 2009, Webber may have beaten Vettel - but he didn't and the rest is history. And if Ricciardo does beat Vettel, then I would much rather reflect on how good he is rather than how that makes Webber look.

Have you been watching this season??  Riccardo is only behind Vettel due to his disqualification in Australia.  That aside I would guesstimate he is perhaps 4-1 up in the qualifying battle and already on two occasions this year Seb  has got the dreaded Massa  message from his team to pull over as Daniel was quicker than him.  I cannot recall Webber having been in that position. And some are pontificating that Vettel  is having to adjust to the new regs  and different car that has given him.  Well guess what every driver is in the same boat and I would come to expect a multiple world champion to deal with that better than most but so far that is not the case.

[liverbnz]

No I haven't watched this season, I'm just guessing. I'm guessing that  Vettel has not been without his own problems. I also guess that Ricciardo has had to deal with minimal mechanical issues compared to Vettel - certainly none that have inhibited his race weekend to the same extent. (I'll not mention Webber's relentless issues with KERS).

How did Vettel get on in Aus btw? Or does his DNF not count in the 'if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle' game?

No points are awarded and no championships are given out for quali performances.

But more importantly, we are 5 races in. (Webber led until race 18 of 2010) Far too early to be assessing Ricciardo in the Red Bull. Come back at the end of the season and then we'll see.

[GSC]

Iirc hasn't Vettel had car troubles in 3 qualis so far? Australia and Spain off the top of my head, Bahrain also I think. Also Ricciardo in Malaysia.

[mystiroakey]

RB's have been a mess until this last race tbh.

but ricardio has won many mini battles.

The dreaded "Seb- The other driver is quicker - DO YOU UNDERSTAND" message has come through a few times . Drivers like seb, lh and alonso will allways ignore that though.. lol but its embarrasing

[CaledonianCraig]

Yes we shall see come the end of the season but so far but for a DQ he would be almost 20 points ahead. No you get no extra points for qualifying but it is a good judge of raw pace and if you even wish to take into account Vettel's mechanical issues then fine but even without the mechanical issues he has not had the pace if Riccardo. Remember as well that Ricciardo is fairly green as F1 drivers go.

[GSC]

liver has a point though, Ricciardo had a DQ in Australia, Vettel had a DNF. Can't play what if for one and ignore the other.

[mystiroakey]

He did have the pace last race no doubts..

Ricardo however basically run a pole to win as best of the rest.

but jumping 11 places is great racing whatever car you have.

The RB's in Spain did seem to be in a league of there own bar Merc.

To really spice a race up it would be great to see a couple of blow outs by Rosberg and LH and see if they can win from the back.

[CaledonianCraig]

Yes GSC but be honest - Vettel never looked like scoring points in Australia DNF or no DNF whereas Ricciardo drove a stormed to finish a great third and was DQ'd. I know who was the more impressive in Australia between them.

[GSC]

Well one lasted about 3-4 laps with a broken engine so it's not hard

[CaledonianCraig]

But the point is he wasn't even looking competitive in the race.

[GSC]

Yeah, the broken engine probably hurt in that regard

[CaledonianCraig]

He was NOT competetive at the whole meeting never mind just the race and qualifying. Perhaps it was kharma in any case as he had bullet proof reliability last year so he cannot complain.

[sikhlion]

There's not a massive gap between the Mercedes of Hamilton and that of Rosberg. By the end of the race there's only usually a few seconds between them. In previous championship years the championship winning cars two drivers have usually been seperated by quite a margin. I think Rosberg is underrated. He's been faster in two races but hasn't been able to get past but he has good pace and I think he will make Hamiltons life tough. He's not the pushover people will make you believe.

[Guest]

The reason why Rosberg is near Hamilton is because of varying reasons. First, it's a dominant car, even more so than the RB, therefore there is no competition to challenge Rosberg for 2nd's. Secondly, Rosberg, with the dominant car is able to always qualify second, unlike Webber who usually qualified second or lower & then suffered his usual bog starts which put him around fifth or sixth usually after one lap. That allowed Vettel to stroll to a huge win, while Webber was stuck in traffic & dirty air. Rosberg, by qualifying second in a dominant car of over a second & not having those bad starts doesn't have those issues like Webber, therefore can race pretty freely & has less stress effecting the car. That in comparison to Webber, who stressed the car in traffic & suffered multiple DNF's & mechanical issues. Thirdly, this is a new era of F1, it's all about conservation at the end of the day & managing tyres, fuel & the car in general. Hamilton can't afford to race 100% & build a huge lead over Rosberg because essentially there is no point, as it will be detrimental to him later in a race as his tyres will go off, he will consume more fuel & risk stressing these engine units. I'm not sure what people are expecting of Hamilton, in his attempts to beat Rosberg by huge margins. He's only a human being at the end of the day & they are in equal machinery. His ability to out-qualify Rosberg consistently is where Hamilton can show his speed & ability over the weekend, in a race, Hamilton has to reign his ability in due to the regulations limiting him from racing flat out. That allows Rosberg to be 'close' & appear to be closer to Hamilton on most weekends, when in reality Hamilton has the races in pretty much control, even when he's struggling, like in Bahrain & Spain. Hamilton has endured issues, however, still wins & it's Hamilton 4 - Rosberg 1 (Rosberg only winning through being gifted the race win in Australia). It might appear close on TV, fact is, in terms of ability, pure driving skill & the ruthlessness to win, the difference between the two is huge in my opinion.

[GSC]

I said it before really, on a given weekend Rosberg can match Hamilton and possibly beat him.

But it won't happen enough over a season to win the WDC

[dyrewolfe]

RB's have been a mess until this last race tbh.

but ricardio has won many mini battles.

The dreaded "Seb- The other driver is quicker - DO YOU UNDERSTAND" message has come through a few times . Drivers like seb, lh and alonso will allways ignore that though.. lol but its embarrasing

Yeah - last time that happened, Red Bull ended up radioing Seb to tell him he was on a different strategy (3 stops to Ricciardo's 2) and ended up leaving him on the same strategy, to esnure Daniel wasn't held up any longer.

[dyrewolfe]

I said it before really, on a given weekend Rosberg can match Hamilton and possibly beat him.

But it won't happen enough over a season to win the WDC

Agreed. The pattern is looking pretty well set, unless Rosberg can find a couple of extra tenths somewhere, both in quali and races.

Monaco could be different, given the nature of the circuit. If Nico can grab pole, it ought to set him up for the win. He may get others too, but, over the course of the season, its looking as though Hamilton will comfortably win enough races to stay ahead.

Must admit I was quite surprised how little changed at Barcelona, given its where teams bring their first major upgrades.

[GSC]

In other news, good to see Grosjean back up the grid. Really thought he turned a corner last year with mentality, shame to see him in a dog of a car.

[mystiroakey]

I like grosjean a lot- a real racer- if perhaps a bit too aggressive(which in fairness all the best are considered that sometimes- if senna was around today he would be banned!!)

[GSC]

I think his main problem was lack of awareness. The best also pick their moments and Grosjean sometimes would attack every gap.

[Fernando]

[Guest]

The trumpets look ridiculous. Guess it will improve the sound for the fans but not really too bothered about the lack of noise personally.

[GSC]

Turns out it was crap anyway

[banbrotam]

Yeah and the McLarens Hamilton had were hardly shoddy cars, both Mercs have been at least competitive.

Had the best car 07 and 08. Cars make the vast majority of the difference, the whole Vettel had a great car thing is silly, nobody wins consistently without a great car in this era

Hamilton did not have the best car in 08'. For the first five races, assuming Kimi was actually interested and Massa actually performed better than the average drive he usually was, the Ferrari was miles better - to such a degree that in desperation Hamilton tried a three stop strategy at Turkey, which split the Ferrari's and most said it was his best ever drive (up to that time)

Alonso, must look back green with envy at what he could have done with that Ferrari

Let's face it him or Hamilton would have won that Championship by a country mile - if they'd been driving that Ferrari

For me, Vettel showed on Sunday more than most of the races of his races of the last three years

[CaledonianCraig]

Yeah and the McLarens Hamilton had were hardly shoddy cars, both Mercs have been at least competitive.

Had the best car 07 and 08. Cars make the vast majority of the difference, the whole Vettel had a great car thing is silly, nobody wins consistently without a great car in this era

Hamilton did not have the best car in 08'. For the first five races, assuming Kimi was actually interested and Massa actually performed better than the average drive he usually was, the Ferrari was miles better - to such a degree that in desperation Hamilton tried a three stop strategy at Turkey, which split the Ferrari's and most said it was his best ever drive (up to that time)

Spot on. The Ferrari was the fastest car on the grid that year.

The disappointing thing for me in the last few years is that there has been a dominant force in each season.

[banbrotam]

Yeah and the McLarens Hamilton had were hardly shoddy cars, both Mercs have been at least competitive.

Had the best car 07 and 08. Cars make the vast majority of the difference, the whole Vettel had a great car thing is silly, nobody wins consistently without a great car in this era

Hamilton did not have the best car in 08'. For the first five races, assuming Kimi was actually interested and Massa actually performed better than the average drive he usually was, the Ferrari was miles better - to such a degree that in desperation Hamilton tried a three stop strategy at Turkey, which split the Ferrari's and most said it was his best ever drive (up to that time)

Spot on. The Ferrari was the fastest car on the grid that year.

The disappointing thing for me in the last few years is that there has been a dominant force in each season.

It's becoming where close seasons, i.e. where there are two or more teams divided by the width less than radius of a hair, are abnormal

Nothing form around 2000 to 2004. Then some good close seasons for 2005 to 2008. Arguably another close one in 2011 and that's really about it

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