The Ten Biggest underachieving fighters of the last 30 years ...

1. Kirkland Laing - Saw the Duran fight again a few weeks back.........Seen some other footage also........Wow what a talent....Should be ashamed of himself.....

2. Greg Page - Most talented heavyweight since Ali for me........Didn't train much for Witherspoon as a protest for King's expenses.....and still ran him close.......Outboxed the very talented Tubbs early until slobby ran out of steam........Holmes legged it to the IBF......Should have been so much more !!!

3. Michael Nunn - Hard to criticise a guy who was champion for three years and then a WBA champ at a higher weight........But anyone who sees the Tate fight and the demolition of the dangerous Kalambay..........Has to wonder why this guy isn't an ATG !! Leonard wasn't interested in him but fancied Norris instead..........A back handed compliment If ever there was one...

4. Herol Graham - Some people thought this guy was the heir to Hagler......Remember Olajide and Barkley both back home talking about how good they thought he was...........Still not sure how he blew it.........Should be living in a mansion in Barbados.......

5. Don Curry - Best all round fighter I ever saw..........

6. Meldrick Taylor - Robbed of his biggest win and then shunted to 147/154 and ruined.........Anyone who sees the Meekins and Mcgirt fights can see what a special talent he was.......Fastest hands I've ever seen..

7. Naseem Hamed - All too brief time at the top.........Never seen a small guy punch so hard.........Lightning fast hands and a guy that did everything wrong/right !!.......Would have bet the house on him beating Marco............If he'd come back there were more titles to win and more big fights..........Instead stuck in the Camacho section of near great......

8. Zab Judah - Thought he had it all and has spent his career underachieving.........

9. Buster Douglas - Outboxed Tucker and quit..............Gave future champ MCcall a boxing lesson.........Beautiful show against Tyson and his style wasn't too much different to Bowe who showed what you can do with heart against Holy.......

Douglas could have beaten Holy but couldn't be bothered.......

10. Hector Camacho - Watch his fight with Limon..What a fighter !!......Ramirez was made to look stupid........Beat Rosario.........But got hurt and became a different fighter...........Outboxed an old Leonard later but the damage had been done.........Should have been an all time great..

My opinion guys..........Probably missed out better offerings.....But there you go !!

David Tua - Realy believed he would go all the way but bottled it against Lewis

Micheal Grant - Had it all for a heavy except heart

Tyrell Biggs - Olympian with good skills. A lot was expected of him but he fell into a life of drugs sad. Oh yeah Tyson slapped him silly.

You could probably add Odlanier Solis to the list.

A decorated amateur, he decided his favourite training partners were Ronald McDonald and Mr Kipling. Oh what might have been.

James Toney for me although he did achieve world titles and a very good career, his talent was such he could have been an ATG with a better attitude to the game.

hogey wrote:James Toney for me although he did achieve world titles and a very good career, his talent was such he could have been an ATG with a better attitude to the game.

i think he can be considered as 1 of the finest S/M ever behind Jones of course. James Toney of 93/94 would wipe the floor with Froch, Ward and Groves imo.

Thought about Toney but then thought about Nunn dominating him.........

Grant had no legs for me and was awkward...........Biggs no right hand.........Tua is a tough one..

But worthy names...

Oliver McCall as well the man could have been a beast, but his mind was as weak as his chin was strong.

I don't like to dish out compliments to you too often truss, but that's a pretty good list. Which is another of way of saying, I have nothing to add because the names I thought of were already there.

So prime curry better than srl, hearns, Ali and mayweather then for you?

The way he thrashed Mcrory clone of Tommy...Think he may have beaten Hearns at 147.....Certainly had the skills and power......Like every fight with tommy though you only win If he makes a mistake.......Unless he's stopped he beats every fighter in Welter history including Robinson.......

Curry could box on the retreat like he did against MCcallum and was equally as effective going forward as he was against Milton.....Takes a good all round fighter to be able to do that.........

Maybe I should have put most complete.......You're right to pick up on it.

Excellent list Truss,don't know how Bomber Graham never won a world title,watched Curry destroy Colin Jones with unreal accuracy,thought he would reign for years.

Controversial one but Calzaghe underachieved for me,should have been chasing the big fights stateside,Joe had the talent to give anyone problems but chose to stay at home and defend that WBO title and keep his unbeaten record.
Howard Eastman, he could box he could hit had a good chin,lazy lazy fighter who should have won a world title blew it against Joppy.

Bowe?

I like Eastman.........Not sure about Calzaghe....Don't know whether he overachieved or underachieved..

That's the problem..

De la Hoya possibly? Great fighter but if he had got decisions against Shane in rematch and Trinidad (fights be really should of won) and avoided Middleweight, he would of been a serious ATG. Obviously the Pacquaio fight wasn't the real Oscar so can't hold that against him too much.

I mention him as an underachiever on a thread recently and I'll throw his name into the hat now, Cotto. If only he were confident in himself and used the full extent of his attributes.

AdamT wrote:De la Hoya possibly? Great fighter but if he had got decisions against Shane in rematch and Trinidad (fights be really should of won) and avoided Middleweight, he would of been a serious ATG. Obviously the Pacquaio fight wasn't the real Oscar so can't hold that against him too much.

6 weight world champion and ducked nobody,fights with Mosely and Trinidad very close decisions some feel he beat Mosely,close fight with Mayweather when he was passed his best, so wouldn't be an underachiever for me but if that's your own opinion fair enough.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The way he thrashed Mcrory clone of Tommy...Think he may have beaten Hearns at 147.....Certainly had the skills and power......Like every fight with tommy though you only win If he makes a mistake.......Unless he's stopped he beats every fighter in Welter history including Robinson.......

Curry could box on the retreat like he did against MCcallum and was equally as effective going forward as he was against Milton.....Takes a good all round fighter to be able to do that.........

Maybe I should have put most complete.......You're right to pick up on it.

It was a genuine question truss, know you are a big curry fan... As was I infact back in the day. Like nico, after the jones and mcrory fights ( that left hook still one of my favourite punches ever) I was pretty sure we were looking at the next great welter.

Not an underachiever,hardly. What I meant was De la Hoya could of had less losses. Well I'm a huge Mayweather fan but he could take a leaf out of Oscars book. Oscar thought everyone win or lose. I have huge respect for him

Odh is a nailed on atg. Amazing fighter.

Juniour jones was an under achiever. Seemed satisfied with wins against barrera. Downhill from there.

Ricky Williams, Francisco Bojado, Andrew Maynard, Ray Mercer, Riddick Bowe, Howard Davis, Mark Breland, Tim Witherspoon, Audley Harrison, Frankie Gavin, David Reid, Odlanier Solis, Shannon Briggs.

Corrie Sanders for me, had 6'4, hands like speedy Gonzales, and hit like a brick. Good chin on him too, took about 30 unanswered shots from Vitali without dropping before the ref called time. Lacked the love of the sport which makes you get up at 4am, and run, or step into the gym day in day out. Also had a questionable trainer. Still, he was at one stage the heavyweight champion of the world, given the fact that the other champs at the time, a case could have been made for him being the true heavyweight champ at the time, which is a pretty big achievement, for an under achiever.

The other champion being Lennox Lewis the true champion and also the fact the top heavies couldn't give a damn about the WBO.

To be fair, I thought Lewis Vitali was before Sanders Wlad. Did anyone rate Jones Jr. above Little brother as a heavyweight?

Sanders had natural gifts kingy, I'll give you that. Big punch and fast hands.

Probably The biggest underachieving heavyweight of the last 30 years....  From South Africa.... Called corrie. 

Jests aside, I did rate him to be fair... Dangerous guy for a few rounds.

Yeah, his stamina was a problem, the result of not enough mileage in training camps, but a bigger problem was his defense... His trainer, old Harold seems to skim through defense. Don't think I've seen one fighter of his show an inkling of it. Tommy Oosthuizen is a 6'4 SMW, with 6'6 reach, and he gets touched a lot, and every fight I've ever seen Johnny Muller in ends in a pool of blood a la Matthyse-Molina.

Good list Truss, can't argue with any of the names there.

Diosbelys Hurtado could be added, maybe. Part of the so-called 'Team Freedom' (or something!) along with Casamayor, early Cuban defectors and the pair of them never quite hit the heights many thought they would as professionals, albeit Casamayor did a better job.

Hurtado, though, was a great talent let down by a lousy chin. Whitaker had slid a little past his best by 1997 but Hurtado was the first man to really force him to chase a fight and completely change his approach - Pea was nowhere on the cards. Got a bit giddy and too confident for his own good against Tszyu after flooring him in the first round and ended up fighting a terrible tactical fight, doing exactly what Duva was telling him NOT to do, but then showed signs of adapting his style to the professionals as he started sitting down on shots and fighting at close quarters as he took apart Bailey (oddly enough the biggest hitter he faced) with body shots......But then his whiskers let him down as he lost his WBA belt at Light-Welter against Harris, getting stopped by a punch that he actually caught on his gloves! God knows what would've happened if it'd hit the target properly!

Enjoyed discovering his career box set a few years back....Great speed and footwork, just took too long to adapt his style to a more physical one needed in the pros and couldn't take a shot (was floored against Bailey even though that was his best showing).

Was going to do an article about Herol but never got round to it. Most of the names here kind of underachieved purely because of their own faults or over indulgences, but with Graham you could argue there was an element of bad luck involved as well to be fair to him.

Hard to understate how poor he was making Jackson look for three rounds before he got caught. With a bit of luck or a different set of judges he could have had wins over McCallum and Kalambay (the rematch I mean, as he was well beaten in the first). I scored them both a draw, for instance, and that was even considering Graham losing a point against Mike and two in the rematch against Sumbu (bit of home town cooking with that last deduction you could argue, as well).

Incredible that he couldn't land a world title shot at 154 despite his European title and long winning run there and you can see why he got frustrated with his situation and temporarily jumped ship to Shaw and Thomas. But they were all wrong for Herol and he got hit more against Kalambay in their first fight than he'd done in his whole career before that point! Bad misjudgement from all concerned, as that loss cost Graham his chance at Barkley for a shot at the vacant WBA Middleweight belt - more of a winnable fight for Graham than McCallum, Jackson or Kalambay, I'd have thought.

Was he ducked? Did he freeze a little when he got his chances (like in the second half of the McCallum fight)? Was he badly managed? Or was it just plain old fashioned bad luck? Suspect it was a bit of all of them combined really, but in general I have a bit more sympathy for someone like Graham than I do for most other big-time underachievers.

Joan Guzman

Guzman is an excellent shout....Haz made an interesting choice in Mercer...I never rated him always thought he fought with his face...But then again he beat Lewis on some cards and beat Morrison and a resurgent Cooper...

By todays standards he'd be a quality champ....Mercer did win a WBO..

Interesting shout...

Graham should have beaten McCallum...Graham was better than Kalambay..

Unlucky he was against Julian..

milkyboy wrote:Joan Guzman

Never known a fighter to have as many problems with the scales,lazy undisciplined, no sympathy for him at all, Guzman,wasted career,he'll realise that in later life.

I don't have sympathy for him either nico. Started off as 'mini Tyson' bit of a front foot banger, as he went through the weights he became a boxer. Had the full package except between the ears.

Re the bomber graham debate. I could never make my mind up whether he froze a bit on the big stage...  Or whether his style made decent fighters look like idiots but just didn't cut it against the very best. There are examples that support both theories.

The first kalambay fight was no bigger than others he'd had before so that just maybe suggests it was a technical thing. At the time watching him against kalambay and mccallum it seemed like he wasn't his usual self... But in hindsight they were the best fighters he fought.

Against Jackson he looked sharp, but was a bit more aggressive than usual, and got careless. Watched that fight again a while back, bomber was winning the rounds and Jackson was struggling with his eye, but it wasn't quite the one way traffic it's often referred to... There were plenty of bombs whistling past Graham's whiskers before the one that didn't miss.

As an aside, of all the ko merchants, can anyone think of a guy who put people to sleep as cleanly as Jackson. In his highlight reel? The number of guys who are out before they hit the floor is amazing.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guzman is an excellent shout....Haz made an interesting choice in Mercer...I never rated him always thought he fought with his face...But then again he beat Lewis on some cards and beat Morrison and a resurgent Cooper...

By todays standards he'd be a quality champ....Mercer did win a WBO..

Interesting shout...

Graham should have beaten McCallum...Graham was better than Kalambay..

Unlucky he was against Julian..

Pushed Holyfield hard also. He re-dedicated himself under original trainer Tommy Parks in the mid-90's and put in three sterling shifts against Holy, Lewis and (an equally resurgent) Witherspoon. If he'd been as dedicated before Holmes, Ferguson etc. I don't believe he'd have lost those fights. He'd have been a nightmare for the Lewis who fought under Pepe Correa and the hot and cold Bowe from the same period.

In fact, you could say the era underachieved. Imagine, we had Tyson, Holy, Ruddock and Foreman at the top table with Bowe, Lewis, Moorer, Morrison and Mercer coming through. Then Tyson went to jail and it all fell apart a bit.

Biggest mistake Bomber Graham made was leaving the Ingle camp,only had to keep using his boxing skills against Jackson and that fight was his for the taking,I bet he feels like kicking himself when he watches it.

Thought Bomber fought well against McCallum got a point taken off for a foul and would have had a draw but for the point, so don't buy into the froze in big fights theory,McCallum vastly underrated fighter done a number on Watson and a lot bigger names than that.

At 38Yearold Bomber had Charles Brewer in all sorts of trouble dropping him twice, till age caught up with him and he ran out of steam.

Interesting shout Haz..

Lacked ring smarts....But should have beaten Ferguson..

Robbed us of Bowe v Mercer and they didn't get on.

Disagree Nico...Mccallum was made for Graham like he was made for Sumbu.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Disagree Nico...Mccallum was made for Graham like he was made for Sumbu.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Andre Dirrell!! The guy is soooo talents but no idea where he is?!

Olandir Solis for sure.

Ti be honest id class the above as wastes of talent as opposed to under achieving......

Haz - Bojado is an excellent shout - was being touted as the next big thing than ran into Leija (I think) and was barely heard of again. I don't think that David Reid is a fair one; he was rushed too much in my opinion - he could have been amazing but was eventually served up as cannon fodder for Trinidad and has never fought again - I would suggest the exploitation of a talent rather than underachieving.

Dirrell I think is one who is also not dedicated; he's tasted a close defeat and effectively quit against Abraham. I am not sure he has the cojones for the job at the top level. It's a shame - I for one would LOVE to see him fight Ward because at his best he could give him problems and I would like to see how Ward deals with it. They have allegedly agreed never to fight each other though.

Although he's now almost got himself into a mandatory title position since his defeat to Groves, I'll chuck James DeGale into the mix. There was supposedly little in his way to a World title but he has believed his own hype a little too much; fighting in leisure centres has not helped him either.

Think Reid has eye problems if memory serves so think they just decided to go for broke as he was never likely to be around for years.

Without the usual Howard Davis Jnr, Kirkland Laing and the names who Truss has provided all seem spot on, a couple in my lifetime I always thought could go further than they actually did.

On a UK front
Pat Barrett: A tremendous left hooker who had power and bags of ability, he scored a stunning stoppage of a euro champ in Italy and had to be escorted from the ring by the police. He was subsequently found wanting against Manning Galloway which was surprising and his career faded.

In the US, Roy Jones Jnr protege Derrick Gainer always looked like he had enourmous amount of natural talent, blistering handspeed and above average power, however what he had in those departments he lacked in a questionable chin and more worrying no heart when the going got tough.

Cheers Rodders

Pat Flash Barrett good lord.........


There's no such thing as an underachieving fighter in my book, all the talent in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you can't deal with the fear or if your chin isn't up to it or you can't take it to the body. 


Andre Dirrell in recent times is the first to spring to mind. But one from the past was possibly Bert Cooper. If he'd stuck at cruiserweight he could have had a much better career. But there wasn't a lot doing in that division if I remember rightly so he had to move up where they were just a little bit too big for him.

Cruiser was hard for Bert Herman because he lacked the application to make the weight...

Had his demons....You're right though..Imagine Cooper v Mccrory

Gainer is a good call.... Can't remember Barrett..

Rodney, Truss - speaking of Gainer, do you remember his fight against Norwood? Have you ever seen a dirtier, more foul-ridden fight than that? On paper it was Gainer's best win, mind you, just a shame he closed it out with two illegal shots which probably sent Norwood's 'nads up in to his oesophagus.

Couple of other's that have sprung to mind. Gamboa just seems to have let his career slip into lethargy.

Juan carlos Gomez. Another who was not big enough to be a heavy... Or at least took his nutritional bulking up advice from the menu at Burger King. Hence the beating from vitali. Looked brilliant at cruiser but just chugged along in an ottke like fashion, rarely getting out of second gear. Probably a victim of circumstance more than an underachiever.

There's a lot of guys like him and cooper, or haye who might have been good heavies in the eras before the giants took over.

Good article Truss. Tough to think of a more rewarding top 10. Problem is, most of the great underachievers simply do little with their talent. So, on that note Laing isn't a bad shout but, I know it is heretical on here to say it, but most people judge him on the Duran result. He wasn't just lazy, he also didn't have a great chin.

I am talking from memory but, I seemed to remember Jones handled him relatively easily. And that isn't saying he was awful, as Jones was a very good fighter, but he wasn't even "the best" at national level.

I grew up watching the likes of Laing, Jones, Sibson, Minter, Mitty etc. and Graham, on Grandstand. I think I must have seen all of Herol's fights from his 8th or so to the end.

Again, from memory, nobody wanted him at MW and the Ingles didn't seem to be able to get him a world title. It was widely speculated his counter punching style wasn't attractive and many people were goading him to "come forward". Graham then signed for Barney Eastwood, who decided all his fighters should fight like his first cash cow, Barry McGuigan. So, he brought in a panamanian (?) trainer for Herol for the Kalambay fight. And, despite fighting totally the wrong fight, Herol wasn't totally outclassed.

After giving Mike a bit of lesson in boxing for the first 6 rounds, he sat back and admired his work, allowing Mike to sneak the fight.

Against Jackson he simply got caught by a peach by one of the P4P best punchers of all time. Very, very careless when so far ahead.

Personally, I think he lost his world titles due to a mixture of luck and cockiness.

But, if I was to say the greatest underachiever, I'd say Douglas. With honorable mentions to Curry, Comacho and Judah. Although, Naz, Tua and Tubbs also come to mind.

Fair point about laing's chin, happy, though jones could certainly bang. Jones didn't handle him easily though. Laing was miles ahead on points and got sparked late on twice, in almost carbon copy fashion. He certainly outboxed him more than say mcrory was ever able to. Irrelevant of course because he lost twice!

Duran was his famous win, but he certainly got a lacklustre duran. It may have been the only fight where kirk went in in better shape than the opponent. The world had opened up for him, and he celebrated with a year long ganja fest.

Word is, he used to better honeyghan in sparring (Yeh, I know, a sparring story, and it will have been. 'Prime' Laing against ore prime honey).... on the days he could be bothered to turn up. Definitely, a waste of talent in my eyes, but you may have a point that the level of talent may have been exaggerated....he was what he was.

Milkey, as the subject was underachiever, he certainly is a good shout as he definitely had bags of it and pretty much let it go up in smoke, quite literally.

Jones was a very good fighter and, in many an era, would have probably lifted a title. But, I obviously don't remember those fights as well as I had thought!

Sadly, the "greatest" underachievers don't even get passed national level because they are that underachieving, so its a littl bit of a misleading title, although I fully understand what Truss was trying to get at. He means the nearly men who could have done so much more if they had only applied themselves a little bit more or at the right times. Or maybe its more concise to say, made a better go of it.

Laing had some exceptional natural abilities but sadly he was let done by a soft chin (which I think he actually could have negated by his natural talents) but more specifically, his lack of application.

And interesting article would be, who is the most naturally talented fighter you ever saw and why? Robinson, Mayweather etc. as well as some of those who sadly just has glass jaws could be included. I'm trying to think of a great example of the latter but all I can think of is B grade examples like Leushing (who KO'd Laing) etc.

The talented Brit with a glass jaw from our era, happy, that springs to mind is Errol Christie.

milkyboy wrote:The talented Brit with a glass jaw from our era, happy, that springs to mind is Errol Christie.

Christie definitely had the glass jaw, I don't know how talented he was though. He had a great looking style and could punch, but the truth of it was that he never won anything as a pro, no regional titles, British Titles or Commonweath titles.

Who remembers George Collins? He was another 'talent' that was being built up by Warren. Collins went something like 70-1 as an amateur, but couldn't seem to get out of first gear as a pro.

Christie was a brilliant amateur Atila, but as your George Collins point proves it doesn't always count for much. I remember watching collins get starched by Garry stretch.

As an aside, whilst trying to remember which ex-fighters had commented on sparring between Laing and honeyghan (coincidentally mark Kaylor, was one), my google search took me to a bbc debate from 2006....With contributions from the two of us. We're knocking on a bit fella.

milkyboy wrote:Christie was a brilliant amateur Atila, but as your George Collins point proves it doesn't always count for much. I remember watching collins get starched by Garry stretch.

As an aside, whilst trying to remember which ex-fighters had commented on sparring between Laing and honeyghan (coincidentally mark Kaylor, was one), my google search took me to a bbc debate from 2006....With contributions from the two of us. We're knocking on a bit fella.

Yes, we are knocking on a bit... you more than me though.  

I wonder what happened to your buddy...stickingupforsrl? He was a true Ray Leonard man.