Sounds Like Pandering

Sorry but have to have a rant. Now we all heard about BE moaning about the sound of the new cars and so because he wasn't happy time has been wasted getting an F1 team to try to pander to him fitting odd bits onto the car in a bid to improve the sounds. Why? BE brought these changes in so he only has himself to blame for the sound issues. It all seems a lot childish to pander to an 80+-year-old. Leave the teams to develop the car in proper areas and not to pander to BE as the cars are designed to race not for BE's own playthings.

I heard at least one team has been developing new exhaust nozzles to basically do the same thing as those Halfords jobs, so beloved by boy racers (make the cars a lot noisier).

Completely agree that its idiotic and a total waste of time. The teams have far more important things to be worrying about, given most are still trying to get the best performance from the new powertrains and develop their aero packages.

While the cars may not be as loud, I think the dual engine / turbo sounds are a lot more pleasant. The lower, growlier engine note actually sounds more muscular IMO. Combined with the hiss and whine of the turbo, the overall sound is a lot more interesting than the ear-splitting scream of the V8.

I just wish someone would take Bernie Ecclestone for a long walk along a short pier.

dyrewolfe wrote:

I just wish someone would take Bernie Ecclestone for a long walk along a short pier.

Yes and shark-infested waters as well and when he falls in he'd be with like-minded creatures.

Actually tbf, Bernies never wanted the new engines

GSC wrote:Actually tbf, Bernies never wanted the new engines

The basic point is the FIA have teams running around trying to appease BE BY making the cars sound differently. FFS he is not royalty.

In F1 terms he basically is.

Bernies job is to make money. While the new engines were necessary, they don't make him any extra money. Hence his opposition.

GSC wrote:In F1 terms he basically is.

Bernies job is to make money. While the new engines were necessary, they don't make him any extra money. Hence his opposition.

Leave it out eh. I refer you to his long list of crimes. Ah well the sands of time are running out for him in more ways than one. I will bide my time until this parasite has gone.

I don't like him, but within the Paddock, hes basically king, czar etc.

Yes but only because he has built the persona up amongst his many yes men. BE is as close as you will come in sport to the mafia who manipulates people using criminal means if necessary. Absolutely nauseating. It is akin to Sir Alex being known to bribe refs yet still keep a false persona.

Saw what you really think

Sadly, the easie way to climb the ladder these days is to get dirty it seems.

GSC wrote:

Sadly, the easie way to climb the ladder these days is to get dirty it seems.

Not to the degree that he has. Christ he has been in court lately more times than the hairy cornflake.

And if you don't know the hairy cornflake is also known as Dave Lee Travis.

Absolute garbage as usual. BE just operates at far too clever a level for some to understand.

bogbrush wrote:Absolute garbage as usual. BE just operates at far too clever a level for some to understand.

Illegally you mean?

Eh if you were to get into the high level of most industries most would be engaging in questionable activities.

bogbrush wrote:Absolute garbage as usual. BE just operates at far too clever a level for some to understand.

No worries. The sands of time are running thin....he is on borrowed time.   

Then he'll have a patsyiin place. Horner is his handpicked replacement

GSC wrote:Then he'll have a patsyiin place. Horner is his handpicked replacement

After years of BE I'd see Pol Pot as an able and better replacement so Horner would suit me fine.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:Then he'll have a patsyiin place. Horner is his handpicked replacement

After years of BE I'd see Pol Pot as an able and better replacement so Horner would suit me fine.

  

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:Then he'll have a patsyiin place. Horner is his handpicked replacement

After years of BE I'd see Pol Pot as an able and better replacement so Horner would suit me fine.

Whoever gets the job you can be sure he'll be Bernie's placeman. While he's breathing he'll still be the man in F1. They all know who the boss is.

skyeman wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Absolute garbage as usual. BE just operates at far too clever a level for some to understand.

Illegally you mean?

So naive.

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:Then he'll have a patsyiin place. Horner is his handpicked replacement

After years of BE I'd see Pol Pot as an able and better replacement so Horner would suit me fine.

While he's breathing he'll still be the man in F1. They all know who the boss is.

The clock is a-ticking.   

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:Then he'll have a patsyiin place. Horner is his handpicked replacement

After years of BE I'd see Pol Pot as an able and better replacement so Horner would suit me fine.

While he's breathing he'll still be the man in F1. They all know who the boss is.

The clock is a-ticking.   

If anyone is going to break the world record for being oldest person alive it'll be Bernie. That being said what he does for an 83 year old guy is pretty incredible, Im expecting to be in a box by then   

Yes appearing in court more times than Dave Lee Travis is pretty damn impressive for all the wrong reasons.

Bernie Ecclestone looks set to avoid jail and retain control of Formula One.

Germany's Suddeutsche Zeitung is reporting on Saturday that the F1 chief executive has negotiated a US $100 million settlement with prosecutors in his high-profile corruption case in Germany.

The newspaper did not name its sources but said the settlement, negotiated in Munich on Saturday, will terminate the trial altogether and see all charges dropped

Yes he agreed to pay the company the money they were claiming so that charges could be dropped. Money talks eh? It can keep you out of jail for bribery and corruption if you play highly enough.   

It made me laugh as news broke on Thursday or Friday with Ecclestone and his lawyers asking for charges to be dropped due to lack of evidence? Do me a favour eh? Why cough up all that money if you are not guilty as he claims? If that were me and was being accused of something I never done I'd want justice and implore the court case to find the truth.

What were you expecting to happen there was 0% chance of Bernie getting done. Let's face it he won't leave F1 til he is in a box.

Fernando wrote:What were you expecting to happen there was 0% chance of Bernie getting done. Let's face it he won't leave F1 til he is in a box.

Yes I realise that. I suppose a part of me hoped to see bribery and corruption not come out on top but sadly it wasn't to be. Still like I have said before the grains of sand are running out......I can bide my time.

Bernie avoids being convicted of bribery by bribing the German authorities.

GSC wrote:Bernie avoids being convicted of bribery by bribing the German authorities.

  

Predictable ending, nothing can bring him down. Time to move on.

Sanity prevails and a no-harm case ends with a few bob changing hands. As I predicted all along, Bernie is far too smart and cool to trip up to these guys, this was probably the plan throughout - make it really difficult to lay a glove on him (essentially they have to read his mind to prove intent) then make a deal. As the master deal maker that's meat and drink to him.

I think he might pull one last stunt and arrange his choice of successor and have him in place while he's alive, essentially extend his control beyond the point of his death. It would be very Bernie. Or he might go on forever.

Side note to Craig:

I wouldn't state bribery & corruption explicitly against him Craig, that's libel and the site will be liable for your posts. A vague statement saying nothing but being outraged is probably ok. Just a tip.

Oh, and bide your time for what? Taking over F1? Rejoicing at a mans death? Someone who has only created stuff and not harmed anyone.

Smart? Coughing up £60 million for something you would have us believe he never done. that is plain daft if you ask me.

£60m is about 1.5% of his wealth. Would you consider it a big deal to pay 1.5% of your wealth to get a load of nonsense off your back especially when you're 83?

Don't forget that for him it doesn't even impact to that level the fund of wealth he needs to do whatever he wants. He couldn't get through £4bn if he had 20 years. Effectively, this has cost him nothing.

And who says he didn't do it?

Of course it's the smart move. And there were those scoffing at his antics with the revolving door when all the time he's the guy doing the laughing.

Of course it is small fry to him but it is the principle here as well. If he was innocent and being accused of something he never done any decent-minded person would contest the allegations to the end but oh no not Bernie. That smacks of him being guilty however you want to paint it. If he were innocent then he lacks morals to hand over £60 million to a liar.

Does no one actually see the irony of BE paying for a bribery trial to be ended? It sounds almost like..... a bribe....
HMMMM

CaledonianCraig wrote:Of course it is small fry to him but it is the principle here as well. If he was innocent and being accused of something he never done any decent-minded person would contest the allegations to the end but oh no not Bernie. That smacks of him being guilty however you want to paint it. If he were innocent then he lacks morals to hand over £60 million to a liar.

You don't get it do you? It's about doing the smart thing, not what you think is the right thing. Why leave himself tied up in this nonsense at his age, with the risk they'd find against him? I mean, Courts always get it right don't they?

Anyway, one post before you were saying he was daft to pay, now you think it's smart but unprincipled.   

I predicted he'd walk away from this easy and he has.

It is you who doesn't get it. F1 has someone in charge that has been in court more times than Dave Lee Travis over odious dealings and using his wealth to gain influence. That most certainly is not praiseworthy or admirable in fact it is really nauseating. Still you go ahead backing him if you wish but not me - the time will come when he is no longer involved in F1 and I look forward to that time. A time of no fleecing of F1 teams, no standing by another leading figure with nauseating background, no crazy hair-brained ideas such as water sprinklers around the track, double points for races, comments about engine noises etc etc etc. Bring it on.

What's your thing about Dave Lee Travis? You do know he was found not guilty don't you, or are you so obedient to authority that the mere presence in Court means guilt?

Of course a time will come when the guy who took a patchwork pursuit and created the 3rd most watched sporting event in the World no longer runs it. Maybe we'll get someone who doesn't comment about engine noise, I mean Christ that's so important isn't it?

I'd have more time for your opinion of him if I thought you'd ever created or developed a commercial venture. Your reasons change by the post, all that remains is you don't like what is far beyond your understanding.

Update: Judge seems to think the charges couldn't be substantiated. Bernie claiming he feels daft for paying but doesn't really care, thereby claiming effective acquittal.

welshy824 (new) wrote:Does no one actually see the irony of BE paying for a bribery trial to be ended? It sounds almost like..... a bribe....
HMMMM

Indeed. First thing I thought was that he's basically paid to avoid a sentence. Lucky for him he was on trial in a country where you can do that.

Even funnier is the fact he then makes a statement saying he was "a bit of an idot" for paying the bribe, when the judge told him he was basically acquitted.

What a load of BS.

If he was going to be acquitted he wouldn't have paid for his freedom.

Far as I'm concerned, he coughed up to avoid going to jail, so he is is basically guilty and therefore a criminal. I'm pretty sure the Mafia used to do similar things (i.e. paying off judges).

And now he's free to continue running the world's premiere motorsport, when he isn't fit to run a local convenience store.

While its a terrible thing to wish on anyone, I really find myself hoping there's bucket with his name on, pretty close by, as thats the only way F1 will be free of his clutches.

bogbrush wrote:What's your thing about Dave Lee Travis? You do know he was found not guilty don't you, or are you so obedient to authority that the mere presence in Court means guilt?

Of course a time will come when the guy who took a patchwork pursuit and created the 3rd most watched sporting event in the World no longer runs it. Maybe we'll get someone who doesn't comment about engine noise, I mean Christ that's so important isn't it?

I'd have more time for your opinion of him if I thought you'd ever created or developed a commercial venture. Your reasons change by the post, all that remains is you don't like what is far beyond your understanding.

Update: Judge seems to think the charges couldn't be substantiated. Bernie claiming he feels daft for paying but doesn't really care, thereby claiming effective acquittal.

Jeez are you really so naive? Clearly he was guilty of the charges and paid to avoid jail. He is quoted as saying he was an idiot for paying up so the question is why did he? And sorry I do not buy the tosh that it relieved a burden as why is or was it a burden if he knew he was innocent and the court case was going so well. Read dyrewolfe's post to enlighten yourself some more.

By his own admittance he is an idiot so does he merit a place in charge of f1? No but he does hold traits akin to the mafia so he'll maintain power.

Now lets look deeper into his running of F1. Did he create world championship motor racing? No. Would Formula One continue without him at the helm. Of course it would. It is not Bernie that makes F1 it is the teams, the great drivers, the thrills and spills and fans devotion that keeps the sport going so please quit the pretence that F1 would collapse without him in charge. We could liken it to Sepp Blatter at FIFA. We have just seen one of the most entertaining World Cups ever but Blatter (also involved in corruption fiasco) is in charge and has built a stronghold around himself so he cannot be replaced. There is nothing admirable about sorts like these and the sport succeeds despite them not because of them.

I'll try to do this simple because so much of this is getting past you.

1. What Bernie says is not what he usually means. He says things to create effects. Always has.
2. No one knows if he did it to bribe or not, all is opinions. It doesn't matter now, because....
3. By making a settlement and publicly regretting it he's (i) killed the case, and (ii) declared an acquittal.

Get it?

Turning to F1

4. Nobody says it would collapse without him, I did say he created the integrated, World publicised, sport. He did.
5. Your analogy is facile, Blatter created nothing. Ecclestone did.


You really need to think about what you write and not just react from emotion all the time.

Well said Caledonian.

Bernie can certainly be credited with turning F1 into the global brand it is today, as well as bringing enormous amounts of money into the sport (whether thats a good or bad thing I suppose depends on your view) but thats really it.

Undoubtedly the teams have benefitted from greater sponsorship, but they do a lot of their own legwork for that, but the fact companies are willing to pay handsomely to have their names on the cars, is at least partly down to Ecclestone.

The fact F1 now reaches pretty much every corner of the globe is also largely down to Bernie.

That said, his primary aim has been to get as much money for his company and by extension, himself. That has always been his sole motivation.

We also have him to thank for jacking up the cost for circuits to host races, (who then have to pass on the costs to the fans) and dropping classic races in favour of some of the more boring (and often poorly attended)Tilkedromes. Not to mention the entry fees teams have to pay in order to compete.

He also plays divide and conquer tactics with the teams and prevents them gaining much (if any) influence over the future of the sport. Hell, even Jean Todt doesn't dare argue with him, so you can forget the FIA countering any of his decrees. Basically it is extremely unhealthy for any one person to wield the amount of power that he does.

It strikes me that Bernie Ecclestone should think about a move into the world of pro wrestling. He would be perfect there. After all, its all about the spectacle and gimmicks...he's good at coming up with those, isn't he? Reckon he could give Vince McMahon a run for his money.

F1 isn't a sport to Bernie...its all about the spectacle (and the MONEY)...its about entertainment (and the MONEY). While its true he was opposed to the new hybrid turbo engines, he's come up with plenty of other barmy schemes...most of which have mercifully been ignored.

Was the double-points thing one of his? If so, perfect example right there, along with the "sprinklers on the tracks" one.

That shows how little he values the essence of the sport.

1. So he is a liar.

2. Look he settled midway through a case (described by German politicians as insolence as any such settling is normally offered before the case begins) in a case which, if we listen to his cronies, it was all going well and the result was a formality yet he settled. That does not add up at all. Someone there is feeding us false info.

3. Yes so money talks yet if that was you or I or Grobowsky we'd be doing jail sentences without a doubt.

4. So it would not collapse without him. None of that is/was down to him. F1 was big business in the 1960's and 70's. Heck they even made a hit film starring James Garner about it. As for world publicised it always was and in any case it is now not so world publicised as the viewing public are restricted almost entirely to watching via pay-per-view. In this day and age either cough up or you can't watch F1 live on TV and that is harming the sport.

5. My analogy between Blatter and Ecclestone is the gaping similarities. Both are at the highest points of power in their sport, both have got their displaying highly dubious traits.tactics, both have black clouds hanging over their morals and both have built up such a stronghold in a desparate attempt not to be toppled. And as I have pointed out Ecclestone never created anything either.

I hope you guys pay more attention to the rules of evidence if you're on a jury, you're all over the place on this one. Still, good that Craig's found a friend to reassure himself that his blathering a find a friendly home.

Of course BE did it all for himself. That's how all great things happen, people finding ways to provide stuff that others want, for personal gain.

And just to mention, he didn't just jack up the cost to circuits, he turned it round. Circuits used to charge teams.

And Vince McMahon developed something that is worth a fortune, provides people with what they want and made a lot of wealth for himself and all participants from giving folk what they desired. Would that those criticising Bernie (or by implication, Vince) had a fraction of that in them.

You don't become as rich as Bernie by caring about such things as essence of the sport and "spirit of cricket" etc.

Don't necessarily agree hes good for F1 in 2014 but admire the guy.

dyrewolfe wrote:Well said Caledonian.

Bernie can certainly be credited with turning F1 into the global brand it is today, as well as bringing enormous amounts of money into the sport (whether thats a good or bad thing I suppose depends on your view) but thats really it.

Undoubtedly the teams have benefitted from greater sponsorship, but they do a lot of their own legwork for that, but the fact companies are willing to pay handsomely to have their names on the cars, is at least partly down to Ecclestone.

The fact F1 now reaches pretty much every corner of the globe is also largely down to Bernie.

That said, his primary aim has been to get as much money for his company and by extension, himself. That has always been his sole motivation.

We also have him to thank for jacking up the cost for circuits to host races, (who then have to pass on the costs to the fans) and dropping classic races in favour of some of the more boring (and often poorly attended)Tilkedromes. Not to mention the entry fees teams have to pay in order to compete.

He also plays divide and conquer tactics with the teams and prevents them gaining much (if any) influence over the future of the sport. Hell, even Jean Todt doesn't dare argue with him, so you can forget the FIA countering any of his decrees. Basically it is extremely unhealthy for any one person to wield the amount of power that he does.

It strikes me that Bernie Ecclestone should think about a move into the world of pro wrestling. He would be perfect there. After all, its all about the spectacle and gimmicks...he's good at coming up with those, isn't he? Reckon he could give Vince McMahon a run for his money.

F1 isn't a sport to Bernie...its all about the spectacle (and the MONEY)...its about entertainment (and the MONEY). While its true he was opposed to the new hybrid turbo engines, he's come up with plenty of other barmy schemes...most of which have mercifully been ignored.

Was the double-points thing one of his? If so, perfect example right there, along with the "sprinklers on the tracks" one.

That shows how little he values the essence of the sport.

I wouldn't lay too much praise on Ecclestone on sponsorship or F1 reaching more of the globe down to him. Sport evolves whatever sport it is. Look at football which has evolved in this country since the formation of new league bodies or in Rugby League with newly formed Super League and cricket with Twenty20 etc. Snooker is another that has evolved with time. It would have happened in F1 as well whoever was at the helm and will continue like that in the future as well. These sports thrive because of the material parts of them and not because of someone that runs the sport.

Also viewing figures recently have dipped as have attendances at F1 races so all is not rosy. If you are a F1 fan you have to pay through the teeth to watch the sport now. Also F1 was global long before Bernie was on the scene as we used to have races in Mexico, South Africa and Australia etc in the days before Bernie. The fact the season is longer now means more countries are inevitably going to be visited but this is purely to stuff more money in Bernie's pocket hence teams have voiced concerns about potentially 22 races a season.

Whether it would've happened or not otherwise is conjecture. What is fact is it did happen because of Bernie. Whether you like the man or not, that is undeniable.

GSC wrote:Whether it would've happened or not otherwise is conjecture. What is fact is it did happen because of Bernie. Whether you like the man or not, that is undeniable.

No I disagree. It happened because of Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Renault, Tyrrell etc etc and people like Ayrton Senna, Jackie Stewart, Alain Prost, James Hunt, Michael Schumacher etc. They were the big draw and got the fans interested and some were involved long before Bernie took over F1.

CaledonianCraig wrote:1. So he is a liar.

2. Look he settled midway through a case (described by German politicians as insolence as any such settling is normally offered before the case begins) in a case which, if we listen to his cronies, it was all going well and the result was a formality yet he settled. That does not add up at all. Someone there is feeding us false info.

3. Yes so money talks yet if that was you or I or Grobowsky we'd be doing jail sentences without a doubt.

4. So it would not collapse without him. None of that is/was down to him. F1 was big business in the 1960's and 70's. Heck they even made a hit film starring James Garner about it. As for world publicised it always was and in any case it is now not so world publicised as the viewing public are restricted almost entirely to watching via pay-per-view. In this day and age either cough up or you can't watch F1 live on TV and that is harming the sport.

5. My analogy between Blatter and Ecclestone is the gaping similarities. Both are at the highest points of power in their sport, both have got their displaying highly dubious traits.tactics, both have black clouds hanging over their morals and both have built up such a stronghold in a desparate attempt not to be toppled. And as I have pointed out Ecclestone never created anything either.  

Sure he lies. So do you, and me. Everyone does, we say what works to our advantage, taking into account those factors we can weigh. Grow up.

On the other stuff, I don't think you know much about the history of F1 or Bernie. Read up, you're less likely to embarrass yourself.

As for the retreat - put right by dyrewolfe as you were - that everything would happen anyway, why do anything or celebrate any humans achievements then? After all it'd have happened anyway, right?

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:Whether it would've happened or not otherwise is conjecture. What is fact is it did happen because of Bernie. Whether you like the man or not, that is undeniable.

No I disagree. It happened because of Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Renault, Tyrrell etc etc and people like Ayrton Senna, Jackie Stewart, Alain Prost, James Hunt, Michael Schumacher etc. They were the big draw and got the fans interested and some were involved long before Bernie took over F1.

So why did Bernie have the opportunity to commercialise F1?