Golf in yorkshire

Hello everyone ! Looking for some advice for our summer holiday to England. We'll be staying in helmsley for two weeks at the end of july and will have the clubs with us. Our closest course will be kirkbymoorside (described as a hidden gem) and the quirky looking ampleforth which I think is part of an abbey -- the website assured us that it is close to the fairfax arms where they have black sheep on draught, so we'll give that a try. Have also pencilled in ilkley where Monty honed his skills and has the course record -- looks very picturesque. There seem to be a good selection of impressive looking courses in the area -- are there any that we really shouldn't miss ? If it makes any difference, I'm a 25 handicap ( but enjoy a challenge) and mr. P is a 15. Also, in the summer months, regardless of the weather, mr. P will be wearing shorts with short white socks and he will not wear knee length socks for anybody, so that may violate the occasional dress rule (like at Ganton). He believes that legs as attractive as his should not be covered up ! Any suggestions welcome ! Thanks.

I've played Kirkbymoorside many moons ago as grew up near there, but have a mate who plays it and says its a really nice track still. Really nice area, Ampleforth is lovely, very posh school there who used to stuff my school at cricket.
For a top quality course with a relaxed dress code try Rockcliffe Hall, its near Darlington so probably Durham rather than Yorkshire but not that much of a drive from where you are.

I was going to suggest Ganton but they have a dress code (included on website) which includes knee-length socks I'm afraid.  

http://www.gantongolfclub.com/

I think you'll find that pretty much all the decent courses will have some kind of dress code.  Ganton is well worth the inconvenience though.  I liken it to playing an inland links course.  Whatever you do though, don't go into those bunkers.  You may never be seen again. 

My geography of yorkshire is poor so this might be a bit far to travel from where you are staying, but flamborough head could be a bit of fun.

http://www.flamboroughheadgolfclub.co.uk/

There are a lot of nice courses in that area without any of them being outstanding - maybe excepting Ganton which is excellent but expensive and stuffy.

Try Malton & Norton, Thirsk & Northallerton, Scarborough North Cliff, Richmond, Pannal, Starbeck, Saltburn, or Cleveland (which is at Redcar).

The aforementioned Rockliffe Hall is very good, but monstrously long and pretty expensive.

Thanks for all the info !  I like the look of rockliffe hall, especially the island green, and how can you resist a club like Flamborough head which claims to be the the friendliest course on the coast ?!  Ganton is definitely a no-no on account of the long sock issue.  Mr. P will consent to tuck in his shirt to abide by a dress rule but draws the line at knee socks !  I was expecting dress codes to exclude cargo shorts, denim, collarless shirts etc but hadn't thought about socks, and (without wishing to offend anyone) I somehow expected yorkshire to be more relaxed about this compared to say Surrey.  George, I will definitely google all your recommendations as you gave great advice a couple of years ago when we went to the Peak District !
Thanks again.  

Rockcliffe is long but is has a lot of tees so its really as long as you want it to be, I'm a hacker and have played off the regular tees as there is always a bale out shot if you are worried.
Thee are about 3 sets of tees beyond that if you are feeling macho. Island green is good fun.
If you want a decent links play Seaton Carew, Redcar is good as well but don't expect beautiful scenery with either track, unless heavy industry turns you on that is.

Hi Plunky, I would get Mr P to swallow his long sock pride and do Ganton, I played it last year and it's definitely up there in my top 10. It's beautiful, isolated, steeped in history and can be brutal if you start going in the bunkers (some of them are so deep they would benefit from a light switch!!).
The other course I played up that way is the Alwoodley, just to the north of Leeds (so about an hour west of Ganton). Very friendly club where a certain Dr A McKenzie cut his course design teeth and was a founding member, lovely heathland track and usually in stunning condition.

Yorkshire is more relaxed than Surrey. It really is. It's just that Ganton is the top dog course in the county so they try to justify the exorbitant green fee by maintaining an overzealous dress code. The people there are very nice, but it is a bit stuffy.

Diggers is right about Redcar and Seaton Carew - very good links courses but fringed by steelworks and power stations and the like. Worth a trip to Redcar, but Seaton Carew is revving up for the Brabazon Trophy this year so it's a bit busy at the moment. It's also a bit further north, so not as convenient for you if you stay in Helmsley.

By the way - Helmsley is a lovely town. It's really pretty and has a lot of nice pubs. The Black Swan Hotel is really lovely. There's a walled garden and an outdoor pool in the town as well. Also if you like old buildings, then Fountains Abbey and Rievaulx Abbey are magnificent.

Tha'll have a right good time, to use the vernacular.

Been doing some more googling -- seems like we're spoilt for choice up there !  Thanks for all the suggestions -- I'll report back when we return, but I think it's safe to assume that mr. P. will nix ganton.  I'm quite sure he would wear long socks if it would get him a round at Augusta, but that's about it.   

Mr P is quite right, you need standards and not wearing utterly stupid long socks with shorts is a good standard to set yourself.
I hope he feels the same about ties (or heaven forbid cravats) in clubhouses.

...then again Digs, having played Ganton and knowing how good it is, if they asked me to play in a pink polka dot skirt I'd do it!!

Stuffiness is irritating yes but one can always 2 finger salute any idiot indulging in stuffy behaviour (after the round obviously). It's almost worth putting a pair of short socks in and changing on the 2nd tee Plunky!!

I do like the history of the game and Ganton is steeped in it. The Clubhouse walls depicting the Ryder Cup, Walker Cup and the home course of Harry Vardon for a while - it was also where Wiltshire won their first County Championship.

I have never played anywhere with a strict dress code, but i would assume you play the first and maybe second with your long socks pulled up, then roll them down when out of sight.

I take your point Jas and it makes sense, I just hate stuffy course with rules like that. The ones I've played that insist on strict dress codes have always invariably been the most unfriendly clubs Ive been to.
Then again Im not in your league as a golfer so playing Ganton for the course would be slightly wasted on me. I get to play so rarely that I just want a nice friendly club, a decent enough course and some pretty scenery to look at while I search for my ball in the rough.

Yes so do I Digs, I'm only 20-25mins down the road from Frilford Heath, three lovely and testing courses, played them all now but I wouldn't rush back because their attitude stinks and it's the only place I've really come across it in a way that really gets up my nose.

I'm not really that good Digs but I do appreciate clever design, although I would assume thats not a trait exclusive to lower handicapped golfers.

I couldn't have been treated better at Ganton to be honest but then again I never tried to wear shorts & short socks (late Aug/early Sept), not only was it not warm enough but (getting back to "not that good really") looking for balls in gorse, nettles, thistles & tick infested long grass wouldn't be much fun in shorts :-/

A tie or cravat in the clubhouse ? Presumably this entails a complete change of clothes after the round, or can you wear it trendily with sweaty golf shirt and shorts ?! We play public courses all the time here so wear what the heck we like. We do play in a charity event once a year where one of our foursome likes to dress to impress ( we regularly win a plaque for best dressed team) and that has on occasion involved plus fours and long argyle socks. So he's not completely inflexible! We're pretty indiscriminate golfers too, we have yet to play a course we didn't enjoy, so as long as there's a good selection of interesting courses nearby we're happy.

A few more to throw into your calculations (how could I have forgotten them before?) -

Wetherby - very nice course and good food in the clubhouse. Members are very welcoming too.
Knaresborough - interesting course and, again nice people
Easingwold
Fulford - excellent course and facilities

George, what's Flaxby Park like? I often drive past on the way to and from relatives in Harrogate and wonder whether it's worth a try.

Cravat! Anyone here ever worn a cravat?

Wore one last weekend, though it was a wedding. WHich is the only time one should be worn.

beninho wrote:Wore one last weekend, though it was a wedding. WHich is the only time one should be worn.

Some of the most horrendous clothes in existence get worn at weddings, that includes cravats.

SmithersJones wrote:George, what's Flaxby Park like? I often drive past on the way to and from relatives in Harrogate and wonder whether it's worth a try.

I don't know, I've never played it and I don't know anyone who has. The clubhouse (and a hotel) isn't built yet. The plans sound very good though.

JAS hints at a solution to the Ganton problem. Even if Mr P prefers to wear shorts, perhaps going for long trousers that day would allow you to play there an he keeps his pride at not having to balk at long socks

I appreciate all these helpful suggestions for getting Mr. P comfortable with playing at Ganton (which does look like a great course) but I've been married to him for 25 years   and I  can honestly say that I don't think any of them will work !  I'm not sure that it's a question of pride either -- more stubborn and stuck in his ways I think.  Basically, if it's summer (and particularly if we're on holiday) then he's going to be wearing shorts and short socks regardless of where he is or what he's doing (apart from weddings/funerals etc).  If it's chilly in yorkshire then he will wear a sweater or jacket with shorts, that's just the way he is -- I don't think he's going to change now.   

He could probably wear just a thong and leg warmers at Rockcliffe and get on the course as long as he paid his green fees.
Nice bar and restaurant there as well.

.. he would have to find someone else to play with if he wore that ! But actually I look the look of Rockcliffe -- it's long, but from the red tees it's no longer than Bethpage blue/yellow, in fact the par 3's are shorter than Bethpage. Plus, we will have nongolfing family members with us during the second week and I have visions of them enjoying high tea there and watching us stride (or stagger) up the 18th fairway !

Plunky, for that kind of family event, Rockliffe Hall is perfect. The clubhouse bar and terrace looks straight down the 18th fairway. High Tea is in the hotel though, it might be best to have your nearest and dearest sipping cocktails watching you stagger up the last hole. Then all of you decamp to the hotel for high tea and (more) cocktails. The people there are sooooo nice. It's American style hospitality from Brits, which makes it all the better because they really do care.

As you finish putting out on the 18th, your golf bags will be collected from the greenside and delivered to bag drop area. It's a nice touch. A word of warning - the 18th has some tricky slopes, so take great care with your putting to avoid amusing the onlooking throng.

If you are into the touristy thing as well, the local church at Croft (about a mile away) was where Lewis Carroll's dad was rector. Young Lewis grew up there and no doubt many of the ideas for Alice and co were from local people and things. The bridge over the Tees next to the church there was where the "we're late, we're late for a very important date" thing came from. Pubs in Yorkshire (south side of the bridge) opened half and hour after the pubs on the Durham side (north of the bridge) and closed half an hour later, so at 10.30 there was a horde of drunks proceeding south over the bridge to get more booze. Lewis Carroll is remembered in the church - you can go into the church if you want to see inside. The Croft Hotel next door has the key if it is locked - go in and borrow it and then return it when you are done.

My parents were married there, so I have some spiritual attachment somehow. Let me know if and when you are going to be at Rockliffe and if I'm around, I'll pop over to meet you.

Plunky, it's worth pointing out that "summer" in England, especially in northern parts such as Yorkshire, refers to a damp, slightly milder part of the year which resembles winter in most other countries. Shorts are usually entirely inappropriate, regardless of the length of socks!

The other thing is that, if you want to meet up with non-playing family, many private clubs will not welcome them, as the clubhouse is only open to members and their guests, or visiting golfers.

All are welcome at Rockliffe, golfers or not, and the North East is about as dry an area as you can get in England. This summer seems to be shaping up like 2012 though, so dry might be a relative term!

I hear you Ray ! I grew up in England so I always pack sensibly (layers) when we go over there, but my husband was born and bred on Long Island where the summers can be disgustingly hot and humid. He packs his summer clothes and for some reason he's always got away with it and we've had a couple of weeks of decent weather. I know this lucky streak will come to an end some time, but I just hope it's not this year.  

George, we are very much into visiting old churches/NT properties in England, especially when they are close to a golf course. This has all the makings of a perfect day out ! I will certainly PM you when we make plans for Rockcliffe (we should arrive July 19th).  Thanks !

George I agree the east is drier than the west, can still be miserable though! It's not like other countries in Europe where you know without seeing the weather forecast that it is going to be "scorchio"

If you like the look of Rockliffe you might consider traveling a bit further north to Slaley Hall. Two championship courses there, the Hunting course is lovely.

Thanks, we'll check it out. Did not realize there was such a great selection of golf courses in the area. This is going to be a fun trip !

Plunky - Interestingly (to me at least), I have a friend coming over from the UK next week, and we're playing two days here in suburban Philadelphia. I told him he'll probably want to wear shorts and he said he doesn't own any. Unless he has very lightweight summer pants, he'll probably need to buy some!

When I was growing up over there, I don't recall any men in my family owning a pair of shorts unless they were in the boy scouts !

Just had a quick reread of your original post Plunky to see when you were actually coming over as I got reminded that the Tour de France is starting in Yorkshire this year, but it's early July so will be long gone by the time you arrive in late July. On the one hand it's a spectacle to see but on the other I guess it would cause some considerable traffic issues on the days it's there.

I live in shorts from about April onwards till September, though funnily enough prefer to play golf in trousers...I don't know why!

I don't wear shorts much on the golf course unless I'm abroad or it's very hot here. As I mentioned before...for me nettles, thistles and bloodthirsty critters don't encourage short wearing.

Shorts from April to September? Good grief, what's wrong with you? October to March is when real men wear shorts.

  

Good point well made George! I'm been southern softified I'm afraid.

JAS wrote:I don't wear shorts much on the golf course unless I'm abroad or it's very hot here. As I mentioned before...for me nettles, thistles and bloodthirsty critters don't encourage short wearing.

It's a new driver you need, not long trousers.

George1507 wrote:

JAS wrote:I don't wear shorts much on the golf course unless I'm abroad or it's very hot here. As I mentioned before...for me nettles, thistles and bloodthirsty critters don't encourage short wearing.

It's a new driver you need, not long trousers.

Or become more selfish and stop looking for my playing partners balls :-p

 

Smithers Jones - I'm a member at Flaxby, which is next to the Allerton Park junction on the A1. I'd recommend you give it a go. It has 27 holes, USGA greens that run fast and true, lots of sand, rough and water. The layout is pretty exposed, so wind is normally a significant factor. It's usually in good condition. Troon Golf seem to have an increasing and beneficial role in the presentation of the course. The clubhouse is currently in a prefab building, pending the construction of the hotel, if that ever happens, but it's adequate for golf and its kitchen produces better food than you'll find in any other course in the area. The members and staff are welcoming and you'll need neither tie nor cravat in the clubhouse. No one cares how long your socks are if you want to wear shorts. I am biased, but would suggest Flaxby is the toughest test of golf in the Harrogate area.

Plunky - Ganton is well worth playing, if you can get over the rules. You don't have to change when you come off the course, provided you sit on the terrace overlooking the 18th and order your drinks using the phone next to the door into the clubhouse. If you go inside, different rules apply. The ladies have to use a different entrance to the clubhouse...

Alwoodley and Moortown in Leeds are superb. Fulford is very good. Easingwold is pleasant, but quirky. Malton and Norton is good fun, particularly the front nine with its very sloping greens.

I haven't played Rockliffe Hall, but hope to do so this summer. For relaxed, mixed golf, I'd suggest Easingwold, Malton, Flaxby, Kirbymoorside and you'll get a good welcome at all of these. I'd also throw Scarborough South Cliff into the mix.

Thanks for all the info -- flaxby looks great ! This is our first time visiting north Yorkshire but from what I've read there seems to be a wealth of good golf courses and pubs. Timothy Taylors has always been one of our favorite tipples.

Hey George (or anyone else in the area) ! We're thinking of playing rockcliffe hall tomorrow (Wednesday) or Thursday but haven't booked a tee time or anything yet. I tried to PM you George, but it seems to sit in my outbox and not get to "sent". In any case, if you're going to be around and would like to join us, perhaps you could Pm me. Thanks.

That just means George hasn't read it yet Plunky. Hope you have a great time.

I have now, and responded. Sadly, I'm not around, but good luck to Plunky and co and anyone that joins them. Great weather too...

Thanks Grumps - didn't realize it worked like that ! As George said we're enjoying great weather here. Quick question on golf courses in the UK. Is it normal this side of t'pond to have very few yardage markers or is just a yorkshire thing ? Not complaining, just curious. The courses we've played so far had posts at 150 yds but nothing else. Where we play in the US they generally mark 200, 150, 100, plus several sprinkler heads.

Hi Plunky - and again sorry I'm not around.

Yes, it's pretty common just to have a 150 yard post, or bush. Older courses especially seldom have anything other than 150 yard markers. And of course they rarely have fairway watering either, so no sprinkler heads to stick numbers on. Gradually courses are sticking 100 and 200 yard plates in as well, but it's a slooooow process.

In my experience (in the Thames Valley) all have 150, most have 100 and the 200 markers are usually just on par 5s. Sprinkler head yardages are more for the posh places - my course has fairway watering but they don't put yardages on them