European Rugby Challenge Cup

by **RDW** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 13:28

In case anyone is interested, the draw for the new European Rugby Challenge Cup will take place on the 10th June. As an Edinburgh fan, this is now where my interest in European rugby will lie! Sad

Thanks to Wikipedia, here is some info on the tournament:

Draw

Pool 1
Cardiff Blues
London Irish
Grenoble
FIRA 1

Pool 2
Exeter Chiefs
Bayonne
Connacht
La Rochelle

Pool 3
Stade Francais
Newport-Gwent Dragons
Newcastle Falcons
FIRA 2

Pool 4
Edinburgh
Begles Bordeaux
London Welsh
Lyon

Pool 5
Gloucester
Brive
Zebre
Oynnax

The competition will take place over nine weekends. The Pool phase will be through five Pools of four teams which will play each other home and away (six matches). The five Pool winners and the 3 best runners-up will qualify for the quarter-finals. The quarter-finals will be played at the home venues of the four best Pool winners. Looks like there will therefore be no teams from the main competition dropping down into this one.

From an Edinburgh fan's point of view - which will be similar to a lot of other fans out there - I see this tournament as a good stepping stone to getting back into the main competition. The less intense matches and 'easier' opponents will help with the league campaign by hopefully giving some moral boosting performances. Also, I'd say that on our day we could pretty much beat any team in the competition, which gives the players a realistic aim of actually winning something.

So not quite the main event, but there are some big teams in this competition so hopefully it will be a success.

by **Notch** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 13:31

Like its predecessor, its success will be predicated on how seriously the French teams take it. Interesting to see the ProD2 teams in the mix. 3 groups with 2 French teams mean if they treat it like a training session it has a lot of damp squib potential.

by **RDW** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 13:33

Notch wrote:Like its predecessor, its success will be predicated on how seriously the French teams take it.

I suspect the answer to that will be 'not very'. Rolling Eyes

Between the Welsh, Irish, Scottish and English teams though there are some good matchups and any team could realistically win it.

by **Notch** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 13:36

Yeah, it does offer a great chance for silverware for fans of teams outside that elite group and thats great.

by LeinsterFan4life Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 13:36

Notch, there won't be any ProD2 teams...those two ProD2 teams will be Top14 teams next season. Both Lyon and La Rochelle were promoted.

by Irish Londoner Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 14:00

Is the winner going to get a top level place as per the old HEC system?
Also any news of the third tier set up yet?

by **RDW** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 14:02

In the first season, the 20th place will be taken by the winner of a play off between the seventh-highest finishing club from Top 14 and the seventh-highest finishing club from Premiership Rugby. This play off will be played in May 2014, either as one match (in which case, there will be a draw for home advantage) or home and away over two legs.

For subsequent seasons this will be between the seventh-highest finishing club from Top 14, the seventh-highest finishing club from Premiership Rugby and the eighth- and ninth-highest finishing clubs from Pro 12 (or the two highest-finishing which have not already qualified automatically).

From the 2015 season, if the previous season’s European Rugby Challenge Cup winner has not already qualified through its finishing position in its league, it will participate in the play off by taking a place given to its league.

The play off will take place over two dates, firstly seeing the seventh-placed club in theTop 14 versus eighth or ninth from Pro 12 and the seventh club of Premiership Rugby versus eighth or ninth from Pro12. The matches will be played at the home venues of the Top 14 and Premiership Rugby clubs. The second date sees the two winners from the first matches play each other, the venue will be selected by a draw.

Finally, the quarter-final winners will play the semi-finals and the semi-final winners will play the final.

I always find the popularity of a competition is defined by how simple it is to follow picard

Just noticed the bit in Bold highlighted above - that's a jammy bit of business the AP and Top 14 managed to do there!

by **Notch** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 14:04

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Notch, there won't be any ProD2 teams...those two ProD2 teams will be Top14 teams next season. Both Lyon and La Rochelle were promoted.

Aha! I'm with you now.

by **Notch** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 14:10

Irish Londoner wrote:Is the winner going to get a top level place as per the old HEC system?
Also any news of the third tier set up yet?

No on both counts I think.

The playoffs are overly convoluted. Honestly would be a much simpler and better idea to have the last place of the main competition filled by the winners of this competition or the next best unqualified side from the winners union.

by **RDW** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 14:11

If you can follow the post I did above - the winner goes into the top competition playoff system.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 14:23

Notch wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:Is the winner going to get a top level place as per the old HEC system?
Also any news of the third tier set up yet?

No on both counts I think.

The playoffs are overly convoluted. Honestly would be a much simpler and better idea to have the last place of the main competition filled by the winners of this competition or the next best unqualified side from the winners union.

Aaaggghh, you can't say that U word, it is the 'next best unqualified side form the winners League' surely. Run

by **Notch** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 14:32

Sure, for the English and French sides.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 15:08

But it would open a whole fresh can of worms if it were union based. Imagine Zebre win the Challenge Cup, but the Rabo table looks the same as it did this season.......anyhow, old arguments and all that.

Looking at who is in this competition, I think Blues and Edinburgh must be licking their lips.

by **RDW** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 15:15

Gloucester have recruited pretty well, and if Stade become interested they are a very strong team. You just never know with some of those French teams too.

I think success in this tournament will come to the teams that want it most and actually treat it like a proper competition!

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 15:19

I can't see it failing as a competition. The English tend to take any competition, where they have a reasonable chance of winning, seriously. I mean they had all the semi-finalist in the Amlin this season (I believe). The French are hit and miss, but there are now Scottish, Welsh, Irish, and Italian representatives in this competition, and all of them are capable IMO of picking up away wins against the lesser of the French/English sides, so that alone should make the tournament a success.

by **RDW** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 15:25

I just hope they don't force clubs to have games on a Thursday night - I know for a fact Edinburgh would really struggle to get much of a crowd (no jokes) if it is.

by TJ Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 18:14

No one will take it seriously. Crowds will be poor. Its a waste of time.

by **Notch** Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 18:49

RDW_Scotland wrote:I just hope they don't force clubs to have games on a Thursday night - I know for a fact Edinburgh would really struggle to get much of a crowd (no jokes) if it is.

Thats down to TV... I suppose there will be Thursday night games because the broadcast rights will be between BT and Sky. Maybe they'll use this competition to fill the gaps where they would have had six live games from the HC.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 20:14

As a Dragons bar the odd season this is where our level has always been and if Lyn decided to have a crack at this new formatted competition I think we could have a good run in it though given their recent turn around in performances and with the new man in place I reckon the Blues could be a good bet (if they take it serious).

by whocares Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 20:32

I suspect Stade francais might not want to throw too much energy in this competition this time around after having miserably failed to qualify for the T14 play-offs in the last couple of years. As for the others, am already convinced it will be an opportunity to give game time to a few of their youngsters (which in a way is beneficial as some of our U20 got some valuable experience thanks to the AC).

by bedfordwelsh Tue 3 Jun 2014 - 21:00

The demise of Stade is quite shocking really, a while back they really were one of the power houses of French rugby.

by Guest Wed 4 Jun 2014 - 0:52

I don't know .. I think this competition will be really good to follow and unlike the older version (Amlin) will contain genuine interest from start to finish as it's composed of some reasonable sides, and many sides that will feel they can win it. Most importantly there's no dropdown from the top tier Euro competition so there is no fear from the get go - start putting away the sides from the off and you've got momentum and a good chance. No team like Northampton , Munster , Leinster , Ospreys to come and give you an unpredictably tough quarter final all of a sudden.

I would definitely pay to see e.g. Edinburgh Dragons in a knock out format. And I'm a Glasgow fan.

by Guest Wed 4 Jun 2014 - 0:53

PS I'm tipping Connacht to win, beating Blues in the final. Edinburgh and Exeter out in the semis.

by markb Wed 4 Jun 2014 - 2:34

The pool runners-up qualifying for the QFs with no parachutes from the top tier is a big plus for this competition and the importance of more pool matches.

The sharing of rights between Sky & BT should mean a greater number of these matches are broadcast, hugely aided by the increase in competitiveness from the introduction of more PRO12 sides and most of the third tier sides that were getting 50-100 point beatings dropping down.

With the format changes attendences should improve on last year's if marketed well. This past season the PRO12's sole entrant was the Dragons, who were in the same pool as Bath, Bordeaux and Mogliano. The Dragons averaged 4,853 at Rodney Parade in the Amlin, a max of 6,063 against Bath and a min of 4,023. For comparison they averaged 5,930 at Rodney Parade in the PRO12, the derby against Cardiff giving them a max of 8,526, the match against Glasgow a min of 3,916. Bath averaged 11,380 at the Rec in the Amlin pool stages, a max of 11,862 against the Dragons and a min of 10,679. They averaged 11,900 in the AP, 3 sellouts of 12,200 and a min of 11,132 against Newcastle. Bath also had the benefit of the extra attendance revenues from the knock-out stage matches that they could reach at this secondary level.

by geoff998rugby Wed 4 Jun 2014 - 9:02

TJ wrote:No one will take it seriously. Crowds will be poor. Its a waste of time.

Cant speak for other but trust me Connacht will be going for it big time

by **Notch** Wed 4 Jun 2014 - 9:07

bedfordwelsh wrote:The demise of Stade is quite shocking really, a while back they really were one of the power houses of French rugby.

Massive outside investment has shaken things up in a big way. But they have been poorly managed and coached as well. They've gone through coaches at an incredible rate over the last decade; maybe they are seen as a poisoned chalice now?

by HammerofThunor Wed 4 Jun 2014 - 12:02

It'll be better than the Amlin and worst than the Heineken, which is where it should be. Even if the French don't take it seriously at least half of the teams should be and non serious French teams are better than Italian, Romanian, etc teams that were humped before.

by lostinwales Wed 4 Jun 2014 - 12:17

Right at the start of all this I did wonder if one of the reasons for the PRL to initiate the European upheavals was to provide meaningful games for the bottom half of the AP.

It could be an exciting competition, in that it should be a lot less predictable than the main contest.

by TJ Wed 4 Jun 2014 - 22:25

It will not provide meaningful games tho. the PRL aim was to emasculate the pro 12 and to increase their share of the money to price the pro 12 teams out of being competative. They succeeded. No one will watch this,Everyone will put out second and third teams, no one will care about the results, it will lose money hand over fist.

by Sin é Wed 4 Jun 2014 - 23:35

There is very little (read no) incentive for teams to take either competition too seriously because every team gets the same amount of money more or less for just qualifying to play in the competition (as the money is just split between the teams in the leagues).

It will also be interesting to see what happens when no teams are parachuted in to add a bit of spice and fans to the comp.

I saw an invitation to tender for the media rights in France (don't ask me for a link as I can't remember where I saw it). They are offering 3 packages and rights will not be exclusive rights to anyone. Minimum tender must be 27m (a long, long way off what they got for the Top 14).

More good news for French fans - they seem to be trying to spread it across a couple of tv stations from the way the packages were put together. Very Happy

by SecretFly Thu 5 Jun 2014 - 13:16

The 'Challenge' part of the title is there to explain the Challenge required to make teams interested.

by **RDW** Fri 6 Jun 2014 - 8:44

Pretty much every team in this competition has absolutely no chance of ever getting to a final of the new Rugby Championship cup, never mind winning it, this is a real chance to get to a final and get some silverware.

In fact most of those teams don't stand a chance of even getting near their league playoffs never mind winning their league.

I just despair at the state of rugby if all the majority of these teams care about is finishing in the Top 6 of their leagues to make sure they qualify for Europe - a competition which they are never going to make much progress in anyway, and so the cycle continues. I know there is a lot of money at stake too, but it is a pretty negative existence.

This is a genuine chance to win something and give their fans something to look forward to and build up interest in the club. I know this probably means nothing to the French teams but I'd hope the AP and Pro 12 clubs do care about this fact.

by XR Fri 6 Jun 2014 - 8:56

I hope the blues are up for this next year, i think we could do some serious damage and silverware is silverware.

by **RDW** Fri 6 Jun 2014 - 9:01

A good football analogy would be a team like Stoke City winning the League Cup final.

The trophy itself isn't that prestigious, but they are unlikely to get relegated, unlike to qualify for Europe, but winning the trophy gives the club something to aim for and something for the fans to get behind. If they didn't win it then they would have a pretty boring existence year on year.

Let's not forget - neither Glasgow or Edinburgh have ever actually won anything in their entire existence! The same could probably be said for a lot of teams up there.

by SecretFly Fri 6 Jun 2014 - 9:04

It's the small change event to keep small time backwater fans happy. That's not my interpretation btw (backwater fans) but that's the level of contempt the big guys in England and France have for them. We've heard it over and over in the last few years - certain Pro12 sides don't 'deserve' to be in HEC, even though they fulfilled the exact same 'qualifying' criteria as everyone else - that is, a determined number of participants from each nation represented. That guarantee is gone now for four nations - that condition though remains in situ for two nations.

So the Challenge Cup is only there, and is only designed as a shopping trolley for the 'Big' European (English and French) sides to look at what's playing and then to do the 'offering that can't be refused' for any player that looks like they might make the grade to the Premium event and 'Bigger' sides. Thus any hopes of any small side rushing into the big league will be constantly syphoned away from them by large chequebooks tempting best players away.

So the small will stay small for more reasons than people seem to think. And whilst I bow to a personal opinion on the issue by you RDW, I have to say the English and French sides will take great heart from how quickly this New Dawn of Inequality beds down in the minds of the backwater fans. Winning something though is not remotely close to having the potential to win the only event where big advertising revenues and best world players are attracted to. Winning big means you have a chance of staying big. Winning 'something' only means you are highlighting the marketability of some of your better players.

by **RDW** Mon 9 Jun 2014 - 9:11

Well for those that thought the qualification process was complicated, here is how the draw will be carried out! Erm

Tier 1 will include the three No 1 ranked clubs from the Top 14, Aviva Premiership and the Pro12. (Stade Francais Paris, Exeter Chiefs and Cardiff Blues). Tier 1 will also include two of the three second-ranked clubs from the Top 14, Aviva Premiership and the Pro12. The two clubs will be decided by a draw.

Tier 2 will include the three clubs which are ranked third from the Top 14, Aviva Premiership and the Pro12. (Top 14: Brive; Aviva Premiership: London Irish; Pro12: Newport Gwent Dragons). Tier 2 will also include the second-ranked club which was not drawn into Tier 1, and the club which is ranked fourth from the same League as the club which was not drawn into Tier 1.

Tier 3 will include the two clubs ranked fourth which are not in Tier 2. (If Top 14: Bayonne; if Aviva Premiership: Newcastle Falcons; if Pro12: Connacht Rugby). Tier 3 will also include the three clubs which are ranked fifth from each League. (Top 14: Grenoble; Aviva Premiership: London Welsh; Pro12: Zebre)

Tier 4: Tier 4 will include the sixth, seventh and eighth-ranked Top 14 clubs (Oyonnax, Lyon and La Rochelle) and the two FIRA-AER qualifiers. As it is possible that one or both of the FIRA-AER qualifiers could be from Italy, the two qualifiers will be drawn first into pools which do not include Zebre.

Each of the three remaining Top 14 clubs will then be drawn into a pool which already contains another Top 14 club.

How the draw works
Upon direction from the MCs, one person will draw the club balls and another person will draw the pool balls.

Step 1
For the purposes of the Pool Draw, only Tier 4 is established at this point.

A draw has to be made to establish the five Tier 1 clubs, and once Tier 1 is confirmed, Tiers 2 and 3 fall into place as per the key principles above. The draw the takes place to establish which two clubs from the three second-ranked clubs – ie. Bordeaux-Bègles, Gloucester Rugby and Edinburgh Rugby – will join Stade Francais Paris, Exeter Chiefs and Cardiff Blues in Tier 1.

The Bordeaux-Bègles, Gloucester and Edinburgh balls are placed in the bowl, and two clubs are then drawn into Tier 1.

Tier 1 clubs
Stade Francais Paris
Exeter Chiefs
Cardiff Blues
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX

Step 2
Once the Tier 1 clubs are established, the five Tier 2 clubs can be confirmed as follows: the three third-ranked clubs – Brive, London Irish and Newport Gwent Dragons – will be joined by XXXXXX who were not drawn into Tier 1, and by XXXXXXX who are the fourth-ranked club from the XXXXXXXX

Tier 2 clubs
Brive
London Irish
Newport Gwent Dragons
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX

Step 3
Once the Tier 2 clubs are established, the five Tier 3 clubs can be confirmed as follows: the two remaining fourth-ranked clubs, XXXXXXX and XXXXXX, and the three fifth-ranked clubs: Grenoble, London Welsh and Zebre.

Tier 3 clubs
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
Grenoble
London Welsh
Zebre

The clubs in Tier 4 are already confirmed as follows:

Tier 4 clubs
Oyonnax
Lyon
La Rochelle-ASR
FIRA-AER qualifier 1
FIRA-AER qualifier 2

Step 4
Each of the five Tier 1 clubs are drawn, followed by a pool number for that club.

Step 5
Draw for the five Tier 2 clubs. As each club ball is selected, a draw is then made to allocate the club a pool from the available pools based on the key principles above. Some clubs may have to be placed directly into a pool in order to ensure the key principles apply.

Step 6
Draw for the five Tier 3 clubs. Again, as each club ball is selected, a draw will then be made to allocate the club a pool from the available pools based on the key principles above. Some clubs may have to be placed directly into a pool in order to ensure the key principles apply.

Step 7
In Tier 4, each of the two FIRA-AER qualifiers will be drawn first into a pool which does not contain Zebre to ensure the key principles apply. Oyonnax, Lyon and La Rochelle will be then be drawn into pools which contain another Top 14 club.

by Irish Londoner Mon 9 Jun 2014 - 9:34

So what's happened to the third tier competition that was so important when the new European competition was set up: "growing the game across Europe", "breaking the old cartels", etc. ?

by whocares Mon 9 Jun 2014 - 9:35

tks RDW. a big draw including some mini draws - wondering if this is broadcasted live as it will be a hell of a boring thing to watch.

by **RDW** Mon 9 Jun 2014 - 9:46

I do hope the people doing the draw have a clue what they are doing...!

by HammerofThunor Mon 9 Jun 2014 - 11:29

Seems a reasonable way of setting the tiers if you agrees with seeding. t assumes the three leagues are equal, which roughly they are.

Irish Londoner, the 3rd tier is controlled by the FIRA-AER. In my opinion it's preparation for them taking over the whole thing (or at least that will be what is said to appease the French).

by robbo277 Mon 9 Jun 2014 - 19:40

Notch wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:Is the winner going to get a top level place as per the old HEC system?
Also any news of the third tier set up yet?

No on both counts I think.

The playoffs are overly convoluted. Honestly would be a much simpler and better idea to have the last place of the main competition filled by the winners of this competition or the next best unqualified side from the winners union.

I think the play-offs are to add gate revenues and interest to the mid-table teams at the end of the season. Basically, money.

As above, if the CC winner doesn't qualify via league position, they will be entered into the playoffs at the expense of one of the teams in the league.

Had the full play-offs been in place this season, we would have had:

Wasps Vs Blues/Edinburgh (at Adams Park)
Stade Francais Vs Blues/Edinburgh (in Paris)

Winner 1 Vs Winner 2 (drawn location)

Had an English (French) team lower than Wasps (Stade) won the Amlin, Wasps (Stade) would have missed out. Had any of Dragons, Connacht or Zebre won the Amlin, then Edinburgh would have missed out.

by robbo277 Mon 9 Jun 2014 - 19:57

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well for those that thought the qualification process was complicated, here is how the draw will be carried out!

Tier 1 will include the three No 1 ranked clubs from the Top 14, Aviva Premiership and the Pro12. (Stade Francais Paris, Exeter Chiefs and Cardiff Blues). Tier 1 will also include two of the three second-ranked clubs from the Top 14, Aviva Premiership and the Pro12. The two clubs will be decided by a draw.

Tier 2 will include the three clubs which are ranked third from the Top 14, Aviva Premiership and the Pro12. (Top 14: Brive; Aviva Premiership: London Irish; Pro12: Newport Gwent Dragons). Tier 2 will also include the second-ranked club which was not drawn into Tier 1, and the club which is ranked fourth from the same League as the club which was not drawn into Tier 1.

Tier 3 will include the two clubs ranked fourth which are not in Tier 2. (If Top 14: Bayonne; if Aviva Premiership: Newcastle Falcons; if Pro12: Connacht Rugby). Tier 3 will also include the three clubs which are ranked fifth from each League. (Top 14: Grenoble; Aviva Premiership: London Welsh; Pro12: Zebre)

Tier 4: Tier 4 will include the sixth, seventh and eighth-ranked Top 14 clubs (Oyonnax, Lyon and La Rochelle) and the two FIRA-AER qualifiers. As it is possible that one or both of the FIRA-AER qualifiers could be from Italy, the two qualifiers will be drawn first into pools which do not include Zebre.

Each of the three remaining Top 14 clubs will then be drawn into a pool which already contains another Top 14 club.

How the draw works
Upon direction from the MCs, one person will draw the club balls and another person will draw the pool balls.

Step 1
For the purposes of the Pool Draw, only Tier 4 is established at this point.

A draw has to be made to establish the five Tier 1 clubs, and once Tier 1 is confirmed, Tiers 2 and 3 fall into place as per the key principles above. The draw the takes place to establish which two clubs from the three second-ranked clubs – ie. Bordeaux-Bègles, Gloucester Rugby and Edinburgh Rugby – will join Stade Francais Paris, Exeter Chiefs and Cardiff Blues in Tier 1.

The Bordeaux-Bègles, Gloucester and Edinburgh balls are placed in the bowl, and two clubs are then drawn into Tier 1.

Tier 1 clubs
Stade Francais Paris
Exeter Chiefs
Cardiff Blues
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX

Step 2
Once the Tier 1 clubs are established, the five Tier 2 clubs can be confirmed as follows: the three third-ranked clubs – Brive, London Irish and Newport Gwent Dragons – will be joined by XXXXXX who were not drawn into Tier 1, and by XXXXXXX who are the fourth-ranked club from the XXXXXXXX

Tier 2 clubs
Brive
London Irish
Newport Gwent Dragons
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX

Step 3
Once the Tier 2 clubs are established, the five Tier 3 clubs can be confirmed as follows: the two remaining fourth-ranked clubs, XXXXXXX and XXXXXX, and the three fifth-ranked clubs: Grenoble, London Welsh and Zebre.

Tier 3 clubs
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
Grenoble
London Welsh
Zebre

The clubs in Tier 4 are already confirmed as follows:

Tier 4 clubs
Oyonnax
Lyon
La Rochelle-ASR
FIRA-AER qualifier 1
FIRA-AER qualifier 2

Step 4
Each of the five Tier 1 clubs are drawn, followed by a pool number for that club.

Step 5
Draw for the five Tier 2 clubs. As each club ball is selected, a draw is then made to allocate the club a pool from the available pools based on the key principles above. Some clubs may have to be placed directly into a pool in order to ensure the key principles apply.

Step 6
Draw for the five Tier 3 clubs. Again, as each club ball is selected, a draw will then be made to allocate the club a pool from the available pools based on the key principles above. Some clubs may have to be placed directly into a pool in order to ensure the key principles apply.

Step 7
In Tier 4, each of the two FIRA-AER qualifiers will be drawn first into a pool which does not contain Zebre to ensure the key principles apply. Oyonnax, Lyon and La Rochelle will be then be drawn into pools which contain another Top 14 club.

So each pool will have 1 French team ranked 1-5, 1 English team and therefore 1 Pro-12 team. Also 1 low ranked French team or qualifier.

Newcastle, Bayonne and Connacht appear to be looking at the first draw with interest, as that will determine whether they are in Tier 2 or 3, which could be crucial to qualification hopes.

Oyonnax, I guess, would be the Tier 4 team you want to avoid. Connacht slipping into Tier 3 (if Edinburgh get drawn into Tier 1) also looks like an especially tough draw. The 2nd rank club who doesn't make it into Tier 1 (in the draw), will also feel slightly hard done by.

Think the hardest possible group would be:
Stade Francais
Gloucester
Connacht
Oyonnax

And the "softest" possible group (sorry!) would be:
Boredeaux-Beagles
Dragons
London Welsh
FIRA-AER 2

by whocares Mon 9 Jun 2014 - 20:11

I think Exeter, Brive, Connact and say Lyon would be the strongest pool at least on paper.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Jun 2014 - 11:04

RDW_Scotland wrote:A good football analogy would be a team like Stoke City winning the League Cup final.

The trophy itself isn't that prestigious, but they are unlikely to get relegated, unlike to qualify for Europe, but winning the trophy gives the club something to aim for and something for the fans to get behind. If they didn't win it then they would have a pretty boring existence year on year.

Let's not forget - neither Glasgow or Edinburgh have ever actually won anything in their entire existence! The same could probably be said for a lot of teams up there.

Let's not forget the 1872 Cup - named I think after the last time Edinburgh won it......

by **RDW** Tue 10 Jun 2014 - 11:06

Did Asbo not present it to the Edinburgh captain?

by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Jun 2014 - 11:59

I think Lutui was our captain that year.....

by **RDW** Tue 10 Jun 2014 - 12:00

Live draw here

http://live.epcrugby.com/eng/player2.php

by IanBru Tue 10 Jun 2014 - 12:00

I don't know about you folks, but I'm licking my teats in anticipation.

Too much?

by **RDW** Tue 10 Jun 2014 - 12:02

Edinburgh could easily get a pretty good group here if they manage to get in the tier one draw and get one of the Euro-qualifier teams.

Similarly though they could get a tough one!

Glasgow finishing high in the league has helped them massively too - again they could avoid the top seeds.

by asoreleftshoulder Tue 10 Jun 2014 - 12:02

IanBru wrote:I don't know about you folks, but I'm licking my teats in anticipation.

Too much?

Yes too bloody much. vomit

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