2012 European Championships QF Part 2: England vs Italy

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Will England take revenge?

England: Hart; Johnson, Cahill, Jagielka, Baines; Gerrard, Henderson; Rooney, Sterling, Welbeck; Sturridge.

Struggling to remember the last time England had a go against a big team before last night.

Future seems bright, if not this year, but Uruguay without Suarez seem poor.

Its got to be

-------gerrard----henderson-------
Oxlade-----Sterling------Welbeck
----------------Sturridge-----------

Rooney should be nowhere near this line up. Baines needs protection from Welbeck, why Roy changed this partnership is puzzling. That OAP Uruguay defence is there for the taking, Suarez might play but won't be 100%.

I'm positive but we haven't beaten anyone of significance for years.

Can't see the Ox starting straight away. I'd keep the team the same but move Rooney central. I want Sterling running at their full backs and stretching the game, and I think their defence is poor enough that one of Rooney and Sturridge will often find dangerous space if their centre backs have two threats to think about. Use Ox, Barkley as options around 60 again.

I wonder when I slipped into this parallel universe then. The sun is shining, England's football team gave it a go, the World Cup is exciting, and John, somehow, is positive!

What's the point in playing two supposed defensive midfielders if neither of them are going to press the ball?
As I said before the fullbacks aren't good enough defensively and you can't just let the opposition have time on the ball in midfield.

Sterling and welbeck played decent but not really the good performance overall that has been described by the press IMO

Rooney missing that chance    Rickie Lambert would have put that away   

Honestly if that's all England could create in the entire game then we are going nowhere but out  

Do people think Suarez will start?

Also, is this the best World Cup in recent memory, so far?

If Suarez was near fitness, they would of gave him 20 minutes. They didn't. They might risk him, but I think he won't be near 100% at all.

But even a 60% fit Suarez makes that Uruguay team much better.

Crimey wrote:But even a 60% fit Suarez makes that Uruguay team much better.

I'd have to disagree

I'd much rather face a Suarez who hasn't got his full range of movement, work rate, fitness

I don't think it'd be in Uruguay's best interests to play him at 50/60% fitness

Olly wrote:

Crimey wrote:But even a 60% fit Suarez makes that Uruguay team much better.

I'd have to disagree

I'd much rather face a Suarez who hasn't got his full range of movement, work rate, fitness

I don't think it'd be in Uruguay's best interests to play him at 50/60% fitness

I honestly think that Uruguay have such poor depth that the alternative isn't any better.

Are we all excited to see England play again? I'd say, outside of Ent who has never been excited, we probably all are. I havent felt like that after our first group game for a little while. We lost but I woke up today happy at that England side.

But I'm sure Roy will now go ultra defensive so he doesn't lose against Uruguay.

Yeah, it's very frustrating that England for the last few international tournaments have got results after playing badly yet a good performance brought nothing. I am feeling really positive about the next two games and I hope losing this game doesn't make Hodgson change the approach which was fantastic.

Since I get crucified for being negative I will start with the positives:

Sterling - Simply sensational last night; instrumental in our goal and the way we countered all night long. Didn't matter if he was playing down the middle, over to the left or cutting from the right the Italians didn't know what to do with.

Sturridge & Henderson - Thought Sturridge started slow but got into the game as it progressed. Looked lively and his pace and movement gave the central pairing plenty to think about. Also took his goal very well. Henderson whilst not a stand out performer did what he was expected to do..looked to break down the play when Italy came into our final 3rd but more importantly kept his passing neat and simple and didn't waste possession which was vital.

Baines - Now this is more for the last 10 mins when Lallana came on...we actually saw why Baines is in the team. If he has a wide man who stays out wide and knows the position i.e. wont drift inside all the time...then he himself can get forward and provide balls in/something else for opposition to think about. Sadly he couldn't do it for the first 80 mins..well we all know why.

We also created many more chances than I had anticipated and looked a threat going forward - however this also brings me onto the negatives:

Had Sterling not been playing last night I think we would have resembled the Uruguay team yesterday without Suarez...i.e. lacked creativity massively. Think Sterling created at least 50% of our chances perhaps even more.

There were still far to many moments when we just didn't have enough bodies in the box; the bbc team pointed it out and myself and have others have said it before...for a counter attacking team we are often far to slow in the midfield getting up and supporting Sturridge...as shown perfectly in the 63rd minute...Barkley went down the left on the counter and when he arrived in the box only Sturridge and Henderson were arriving...Rooney appeared moments after the ball had gone out. This is a problem which rears it's head time and again. Essentially this will always be the case unless you have a body between your holding midfielder and your number 10...when Wilshere came on England had a link when moving from defence to attack thus we had more bodies in and around the box (although obviously we were attacking a bit more anyway but you could see the shape was better going forward)

As has already been noted defensively we were a shambles down the left. I place no blame on Baines as he was literally defending against two all night. All of you who keep saying 'oh playing Welbeck/Rooney or anyone else who is not a natural wide man but works hard defensively' need to watch last nights game time and again before coming out with that gash again. I said it before the game and I will say it now my point has been proven....they can work as hard as they want all night but they will always drift inside and leave the team narrow thus allowing full backs in behind them which leaves our defence with gaping holes...Jag's shouldn't have had to go across for the second goal but he did because Welbeck lost his runner so others have to compensate leaving the team out of shape. Many said that the positional choices of Roy gives the team balance, I hope your giving that some serious rethought....

Not only that but bar the 1st goal we lacked any penetration from out wide; until the latter stages when Sterling was pushed to the right and Lallana came on left. Again this was because when Welbeck and Rooney got on the ball they for the majority looked to come on to the inside. Thierry made a good observation about Welbeck last night; he rarely runs at players or uses his pace...something we want our wingers/wide men to do!

Pressing - Detrimental in the first and 2nd goals...players not pressing the ball. Another thing England have failed to do against the top sides. Gerrard hasn't the legs to do it; Johnson always stands off...Henderson cleans up he doesn't press..we allowed them far too much time on the ball and against players of there quality you will be punished.

Final negative and the biggest of the night: WAYNE ROONEY! Mr Untouchable...the man who was shocking but stayed on the pitch till the end. Yes he created a goal for England but lets weight that against the negatives:

He missed a fantastic chance to level: Should have at least got his shot on target and if he is this world class player that so many still believe then he should have buried it...Messi would have, Ronaldo too..Robben did...Van Persie did...Neymar did...! As Shearer said...you may only get one chance and the difference in levels is the very best put them away.

He left Baines exposed all night...even when he switched to the other side the problem was still occurring. Time and again he drifted inside...Baines must have had at least half a dozen words with him but it still happened. Most annoyingly he knew it..you could see him glancing across his shoulder as he came inside looking to see if the full back was moving on...by time he did something about it, it was to late and his man was already bombing on.

His cross and moment of taking the ball of Barkley in the final 15 showed a man who is lacking the judgement and form at this level. Ross looked like he could have nutted him for that and I wouldn't have blamed him...then that corner...jesus talk about a waste.

I didn't think Gerrard had a particularly great game either...far too many wasted passes/Hollywood balls. All well and good playing it long/diagonal but if there is no one to support the player once he has the ball..pointless.

Perhaps most concerning for me is if Hodgson genuinely meant what he said with regards to Rooney and whether England were vulnerable in that position. If he did then regardless of how poor Uruguay were both them and Costa Rica will know exactly how to beat England. I hope it was just a front so as not to criticise Rooney publicly...sadly I don't think it was and I fully expect him to start on Thursday..

Moving forward: we created enough last night to suggest we can still escape this group however Hodgson has some massive decisions to make and I don't think he is bold enough to make them which will cost us. The big problem is Rooney...you simply cannot play him out left...yet can you now bring him into the 10 role given how good Sterling was? I would say no! Can you play him up top in place of Sturridge..well given the Liverpool man put his chance away and looked more lively plus in terms of goals/assists last season is the in form of the two..again no.

That means...Rooney has to be dropped for me and I don't think we will miss him at all.

The second big decision I think needs to be made is to drop one of the holding midfielders...now I actually wouldn't mind if it was Henderson despite him having the better game. I say this because I think if Gerrard is told just to play like Henderson he could (though would have to come off after 70 as he couldn't do it all day). That allows Wilshere into the fold who I think is essential for England because he is a link man and we cannot play the way we do without one.

My team for Thursday:


If Ox isn't fit I would be half tempted to play Sterling right and Barkley in the middle. I do not want to see Welbeck or Rooney anywhere near the starting XI.

Sterling, Oxlade and Lallana will run at players and are more capable than Roo/Wel to stay out wide. Wilshere provides the link man but also adds bite and guile to the side. He will press the ball continuously and force players into mistakes. Lallana would also allow Baines to get forward without worrying as much about space behind.

We all know it won't happen but we can live in hope! Still another result I got right and the score as well..good job I put a tenner on it. Great result for Costa Rica as well

It will seem like a negative post but it really isn't..merely pointing out major flaws that the top teams will continue to take advantage off. They need addressing because if they aren't then we are out simple as. For me it was much better than anticipated...best I have seen us play in a long time but still the same mistakes from the same players..partly because they either are not up to scratch or are being played in positions they simply cannot play.

Crimey wrote:BBC Sport presenter Gary Lineker

"Of the 14 teams we have seen so far, England had more shots on goal than any of them. Needless to say, conversion rate was not in the top 10.
"Even more stunning is that England's passing accuracy ranks second, just behind Italy, but ahead of Spain, Holland and Brazil. Go boys!
"Here's another beauty. For passing accuracy in the opposition's half, England come out on top."

That is very promising.

Fabulous! Best we've played for over a decade in a major tournament and we get our first loss in a World Cup group stage for sixteen years.

Football. Bloody love it!

Having a bucketload of shots from outside the box against the retreating Italians isn't that impressive, they may have had more shots but it was Italy who hit the woodwork twice and got the ball cleared off the line.

And it was England who had a decent penalty shout, shaded the outside of the post from twenty-five yards, forced Sirigu into three (maybe more?) good saves, and there was also Welbeck's run and cross which was oh so nearly diverted into the net.

I'm talking about genuine chances where besides Rooneys chance there really wasn't that many unless it was a fairly simple long range block for Sirigu.

Sterling's long distance effort that just swerved away from goal.
Henderson's shot that the keeper had to get down well to save.
Welbeck's cross that caused panic in the Italian defence and was just diverted away.
Rooney going close - should have scored.
Sirigu's good diving save from a Baines free-kick.

Do those not count?

Duty281 wrote:Sterling's long distance effort that just swerved away from goal.
Henderson's shot that the keeper had to get down well to save.
Welbeck's cross that caused panic in the Italian defence and was just diverted away.
Rooney going close - should have scored.
Sirigu's good diving save from a Baines free-kick.

Do those not count?

Yea Fifa passed a petition to count them as goals, so the new result England beat Italy by 5-2.