George Groves - How much has his stock dropped and where does he go??

Where are we with this guy now ???....Just been in the biggest fight in the UK for years......Almost say he's a superfighter.....

But he fought a mainly negative fight... acted like an a-hole beforehand....and was comprehensively beaten with a seriously punishing knockout punch......

The rematch validates the result of the first fight....So Groves has been stopped twice in a row....

He can't go from a "Superfight participant" to a Chief Support that is an insult.....He can't go back to being a small venue fighter........The British belt is a step back and is a pointless exercise ..........and yet he needs to gain confidence by learning to win again so a quick alphabet shot is out one would think !!.....One would think as a headline act he'd have to fight someone decent...

Just glad I'm not managing this guy at the moment because I don't know..

A. How popular he is.....

B. What to do with him....and when to do it...

Groves is an interesting phenomenon.............

I think it all depends on where sauerland decide to hold his next fight, if it's over in Germany against a decent opponent, there's no reason it can't be on the undercard of a biggish title fight or him headlining a smaller show over there.

I'm not sure I'd agree that the result of the 2nd fight validates the result of the first as we'll never know if he was taking a breather ready to knock the stuffing out of the cobra in the last few rounds. And to say he got beaten by Froch is no major thing and shouldn't affect his marketability much.

It is an interesting conundrum though and I just hope he's not out for too long so we can get a gage on how much the 2 fights took out of him.

Second fight doesn't validate the stoppage, in the first.
No way. Horrendous stoppage, let's not revise history to suit our arguments.

However, I fear the majority of part time boxing fans who were sucked in by the Froch Groves rivalry will see it your way. If you want closure, it's easier to view it this way. Froch was always better, chapter closed, end of story, Groves is finished.

I still think he has a lot to give. Maybe like has been said, fight in Germany, then chase AA's strap. Should Froch vacate the IBF and DeGale pick it up, we have a big match up in the future.

Doubt Groves will ever find an opponent he has such (albeit weird) chemistry with to sell out a stadium again but that's an unfair yardstick to measure with as very few ever do.

To answer your question on popularity; I think Groves stock has dropped a fair bit in the common man's eyes. They'll see it as talking the talk but not walking the walk.

Who knows though, couple more wins, pad out his record and build an aura around himself, with his tricks and personality he could portray himself as 'the man you want to see beat'.

Why would you take a guy who's just been in a fight in front of 80,000 frenzied fans in the UK to Germany....??

You keep him where he is hot..........

If you are a rock band with a huge Japanese following you tour Japan...

As for losing to Froch it will affect his marketability............Because Froch is knocking on and Groves has lost twice to a guy who isn't at the top of his division...

So a majority of fight fans will regard him as overrated..

Dipper Brown wrote:To answer your question on popularity; I think Groves stock has dropped a fair bit in the common man's eyes. They'll see it as talking the talk but not walking the walk.

Who knows though, couple more wins, pad out his record and build an aura around himself, with his tricks and personality he could portray himself as 'the man you want to see beat'.

People have seen him beat plenty enough already...

But you make good points....

However I do believe that Froch has proved himself the better fighter and as a result it does validate the stoppage in the first fight....

As the "better" man was taking over...

But all opinions are welcome..

Sorry Truss, gotta disagree with you on that. Everyone i've spoken too have said Groves gave a very good account of himself and take into account the bad stoppage of the first one and there's no reason Groves can't be better than Froch.

You could also say the punch Froch threw was a one in a million shot and was lucky (I thought it was a peach fyi)

He might fight in Germany to keep a low profile to see how much the fights have taken out of him, plus build up a little get one of the many straps knocking about and come back to Britain as the hero who conquered overseas here to see of Degale, sells itself.

The big 0 does add something to the 'guy you want to see beat', I'll admit.

I was saying this about Naz, not so long ago. You want to see a guy get beat (I personally didn't) for so long and when they do it's a case of 'you don't know what you got til it's gone'.

Groves doesn't have an unbeatable aura after getting KOd but he still rubs enough people up the wrong way.

I don't see his stock as "fallen", more a case of he wasn't as high as he was made out in the first place. He wasn't a mandatory before the first fight and gave a good account of himself against one the best in the division before the controversial stoppage. The second fight told what a lot of people reckoned in the first place: that GG was good, but not quite good enough for a title.

I think he can come again and this sort of loss will either make him or break him. That punch woul have knocked out Oliver McCall. There's no shame in him losing to Froch. And if he goes the WBO route, I think the title is his for the taking. Groves is exciting and has big power. He's also popular. Benn was still popular after he lost, as was Michael Watson and also Bomber Graham.

Interesting that the very same night that Groves got knocked out by Froch, Kalle Sauerland said that he'd already sorted out who Groves' next opponent would be.

Personally I reckon that they'll be putting Groves in with Abraham for the WBO belt within the next twelve months after a couple of elimination-type deals against relatively safe bets out in Germany. In the long run Groves and his team would be mad not to have a plan of getting it on with Degale again when / if Degale lands a world title. If, as many suspect, Froch vacates rather than box Degale in 2015, Degale taking the vacant IBF belt (with a bit of luck) means that squaring off against WBO titlist Groves (again, providing he can get the job done against Abraham, which he's more than good enough to do) is the natural step for both, a big money-spinner which they can split down the middle as they'd hold a title each and, on top of that, could be sold as a big-time grudge match. Certainly think that all of us, to a man, would pay to see that one.

I think signing with Sauerland, given what happened since at Wembley, is going to be a good thing for Groves right now. As you say, Truss, he's in a bit of a tricky position as he won't want to be going back to his chief support days, but at the same time he needs a couple of fights to rebuild himself, work on the shortcomings which cost him against Froch and build back some momentum. If he does indeed fight in Germany now and then as part of his Sauerland deal he's got the best of both worlds - while he's known over there, it's not to anything like the extent that he is over here in the UK. He can fight less than overwhelming opposition just far enough out of the spotlight while still fighting in front of decent crowds, without massive expectations on his shoulders.

Appreciate what you're saying about keeping him where he's hot, beefster, but ego and accountants need to be taken out of it to some degree right now, in my opinion. At 26, Groves can be a great long-term asset to Sauerland but he's in a dangerous place right now, so making the right and sensible moves for him has to come first. Even if he'd won at Wembley, he was always going to have to go back to the O2, Phones4U arena-type crowds in any case. Can't judge his every career move against an unfair baramoter.

I prefer to see a guy that can be beat. We place too much empasis on the 0 and as such we have the likes of Wilder not stepping up yet so he can keep his 0. I'd rather watch a guy that trys to step up takes a loss every once in while but keeps learning till he's at the top/near the top of his game. Then again i'd rather we had 1 governing body and a proper ranking system with 1 and 2 HAVING to fight each other...................I can dream.

Derbymanc wrote:Sorry Truss, gotta disagree with you on that. Everyone i've spoken too have said Groves gave a very good account of himself and take into account the bad stoppage of the first one and there's no reason Groves can't be better than Froch.

You could also say the punch Froch threw was a one in a million shot and was lucky (I thought it was a peach fyi)

He might fight in Germany to keep a low profile to see how much the fights have taken out of him, plus build up a little get one of the many straps knocking about and come back to Britain as the hero who conquered overseas here to see of Degale, sells itself.

Why would you keep a low profile when you're "Hot"............

I thought Groves was negative and showed signs of being gunshy........

Then again maybe I got caught up in the hype..............Guess when you say you'll destroy someone in three and then get on your bike a bit it may obscure the real picture.......

Maybe I am too harsh..

Maybe your a little harsh,

Chris put it better than me with the low profile bit.

I thought Groves had started to turn the tide and was looking forward to a cracking end to the fight.

Only problem I have now is that I think the PPV game is back and will start happening with more frequency.

Nonsense, the result of the second fighting no way validates the poor stoppage of the first, two totally separate fights. Groves boxed 17 rounds with Froch and won about 12 of them. Unfairly stopped in one and caught by a once-in-a-career punch from Froch in the other at a point when he was controlling the fight. There are areas he can improve on sure, but he's shown that ability wise he belongs at this level, he's raised his profile, he's only 26 and one thing he certainly doesn't lack is confidence.

Suspect he'll go the WBO route with Sauerland and look to rematch DeGale in the uk in a couple of years if they can both claim straps. Winner would be a legit opponent for Ward (probably his next opponent the way things are going with him). I'd expect to see groves in a winnable comeback bout in London around September time.

He'll be off I the German circuit.

I'd like to see him in with ward. Ward had no one to fight, literally no one. Ward doesn't IMO have the power to stop groves, so it'd become a interest boxing match. Wards head vs groves power.

I had Tucker ahead against Tyson after three rounds..

Almost everybody Azumah nelson fought was ahead on the cards after six...

I think Froch's performance in the 2nd shows the first wasn't a fluke.

All opinions welcome..we can't always agree..

I thought Smith was taking the WBO route.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Sorry Truss, gotta disagree with you on that. Everyone i've spoken too have said Groves gave a very good account of himself and take into account the bad stoppage of the first one and there's no reason Groves can't be better than Froch.

You could also say the punch Froch threw was a one in a million shot and was lucky (I thought it was a peach fyi)

He might fight in Germany to keep a low profile to see how much the fights have taken out of him, plus build up a little get one of the many straps knocking about and come back to Britain as the hero who conquered overseas here to see of Degale, sells itself.

Why would you keep a low profile when you're "Hot"............

I thought Groves was negative and showed signs of being gunshy........

Then again maybe I got caught up in the hype..............Guess when you say you'll destroy someone in three and then get on your bike a bit it may obscure the real picture.......

Maybe I am too harsh..

Quite possibly, I thought the rematch was nip and tuck til Froch landed the best punch he's ever thrown. No shame getting KO'd with a punch like that but Groves has shown himself more than capable of belonging on the World stage. The problem is that with the two top men being Ward and Froch, there's a significant gap to the next best guy which tends to cloud people's judgment as to how good Groves might actually be.

You talk about Groves keeping a low profile but he's smart enough to know just how cynical/stupid the British public can be. They just see a guy KO'd and forget everything that's gone before therefore they refuse to watch him again/give him chance to resurrect his career.

I had Froch three ahead like Watt.........Although I didn't like his partisan commentary..

Thought Groves didn't do enough to warrant getting the nod over the aggressor in the close rounds...

Disappointed with his level of engagement.

For me, i'd like to Sauerland put Groves in with someone, or at least announce the fight before the inevitable Froch relinquish. Get Groves back out, get the job done and then have DeGale/Groves II at the O2.

If the likes of Murray, Barker and Macklin can get two/three world title shots then why not Groves? He's as good as them and a KO loss shouldn't be a reason to dismiss a fighter completely out of hand but sadly it seems to be the way. Lewis relocated to the USA as most people dismissed him as over-rated garbage after being KO'd by McCall.

Don't blame Groves and think Sauerland are smart enough to know that Groves is a better fighter than people will give him credit for. He'll get back to winning ways quick enough but no doubt it will fly under the radar for the majority of the public and when Groves is back in the UK, it'll be,

"Didn't he lose to Carl Froch the other week?"
"No mate, that was over a year ago, he's had three fights since then."
"I've not heard about them."
"Says it all really!"

I really cannot see Groves fighting in Germany like some have mentioned. Kessler fights in Denmark, I can see Sauerland looking to expand into the thriving UK market and get shows here to rival matchroom and Warren to a lesser extent. There is literally no point have Groves fight in Germany when he is now a huge name here. No reason why his next fight against a top ten SMW can't sell out a 20,000 arena here with a strong undercard. I think GG has already shown he is world title level and will be there for a very long time. Fair play to him for stepping up in the first place and not protecting his 0 like others have mentioned. Comes across as a very smart lad.

DAVE667 wrote:If the likes of Murray, Barker and Macklin can get two/three world title shots then why not Groves? He's as good as them and a KO loss shouldn't be a reason to dismiss a fighter completely out of hand but sadly it seems to be the way. Lewis relocated to the USA as most people dismissed him as over-rated garbage after being KO'd by McCall.

Don't blame Groves and think Sauerland are smart enough to know that Groves is a better fighter than people will give him credit for. He'll get back to winning ways quick enough but no doubt it will fly under the radar for the majority of the public and when Groves is back in the UK, it'll be,

"Didn't he lose to Carl Froch the other week?"
"No mate, that was over a year ago, he's had three fights since then."
"I've not heard about them."
"Says it all really!"

Khan's had his chin smashed in a few times and he's still bouncing around, chasing Mayweather's tailfeather.

David Price-style rehabilitation in Germany in all likelihood. Price was red hot in Liverpool but he's rebuilt away from the UK.
 
He'll possibly be aimed at Stieglitz.

Price went 10 rounds in winning at the weekend, getting the rounds in can only be a good thing.  Kalle said they might look for a fight in Britain for Price next.

Strongback wrote:Price went 10 rounds in winning at the weekend, getting the rounds in can only be a good thing.  Kalle said they might look for a fight in Britain for Price next.

Problem I see for Price is that once he returns to the UK, all the old pressures return and stifle him. He's damn near invisible in Germany and can get on with the job. I heard he struggled to put his man away despite him being little more than target practice and if Price can't find a way to pick the telling punches against an opponent of that calibre, he's going to come up against the same problems as before when he steps up in class.

Well the 2nd fight was close before it ended also groves is young i think he will come back and eventually be world champion i think he has a sound temperement
I dont think price will be a champion he has faults i cant see being ironed out but he has massive power so he always has a chance i hope he proves me wrong and picks up a belt

Groves is in a much better place than Price. I think hes a better boxer and mentally tougher. Price would have crapped himself silly fighting in a packed Wembley against even a grandad like Tony Thompson.

Price looks gone to me, watching David's last fight on boxnation he seemed stiff as a board and generally terrified when a punch is heading in he's direction. This mini break in Germany isnt telling him or us anything.

Cheers Rodders

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think Froch's performance in the 2nd shows the first wasn't a fluke.

Except it was. Because the fight was decided by an exogenous factor which neither boxer had any control over, therefore there is zero relationship between the two results.

Exogenous or not Groves was all over the place and as he was well beaten in the second..

My conclusion isn't out of left field...

Though in fairness there is merit to your argument..

He wasnt well beaten truss he got knocked out fair enough but even froch acknowleged is was close up until that point and groves was having his best spell i had froch up by a round hardly a pasting

He was well beaten because he was knocked clean out in round 8......

Fullmer was well beaten by Robinson in the rematch...That was probably close on the scorecards when the greatest punch of alltime landed..

Froch was ahead, his work rate was greater than that of Groves. Think Froch either stifled Groves' jab or Groves just wasn't as motivated but he wasn't throwing as much leather. I had Froch ahead by 3 and thats with the commentary off.

and_still wrote:Froch was ahead, his work rate was greater than that of Groves. Think Froch either stifled Groves' jab or Groves just wasn't as motivated but he wasn't throwing as much leather. I had Froch ahead by 3 and thats with the commentary off.

Was It ? doesnt matter, Groves was landing more shots.

Froch 3 up is extremely generous, even Eddie Hearn had it tighter than that.

Cheers Rodders

Landing more shots is a smokescreen......

You might as well say Leonard won every round against Hagler if that is the criteria...

Froch bossed the fight and the kid didn't engage enough....

Three rounds for me........

Both boxers were more cautious in the rematch. I thought Groves was winning it with the better work and superior jab up until the knock out. Groves certainly seemed to be landing more punches and outjabbing Froch, while Froch looked to be the more dangerous and damaging puncher in the exchanges. Groves did the cleaner wok in most of the rounds but a lot of people seemed to view it that because he wasnt dominating as thoroughly as the first fight therefore Froch was winning. Groves looked far sharper when the boxing was happening on the outside. In the exchanges, Froch looked a lot stronger.

Think you are right that the fact Groves was so dominant early first time around made it look like Froch was doing better than he was...

For me though Froch was the aggressor, making the fight and Groves didn't do enough to win the close rounds..

But we all see different things.............and you aren't alone in your assessment.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think you are right that the fact Groves was so dominant early first time around made it look like Froch was doing better than he was...

For me though Froch was the aggressor, making the fight and Groves didn't do enough to win the close rounds..

But we all see different things.............and you aren't alone in your assessment.

I bet you didn't take that stance in the Maidana vs Mayweather fight.

Cheers Rodders

88Chris05 wrote:Interesting that the very same night that Groves got knocked out by Froch, Kalle Sauerland said that he'd already sorted out who Groves' next opponent would be.

Personally I reckon that they'll be putting Groves in with Abraham for the WBO belt within the next twelve months after a couple of elimination-type deals against relatively safe bets out in Germany. In the long run Groves and his team would be mad not to have a plan of getting it on with Degale again when / if Degale lands a world title. If, as many suspect, Froch vacates rather than box Degale in 2015, Degale taking the vacant IBF belt (with a bit of luck) means that squaring off against WBO titlist Groves (again, providing he can get the job done against Abraham, which he's more than good enough to do) is the natural step for both, a big money-spinner which they can split down the middle as they'd hold a title each and, on top of that, could be sold as a big-time grudge match. Certainly think that all of us, to a man, would pay to see that one.

I think signing with Sauerland, given what happened since at Wembley, is going to be a good thing for Groves right now. As you say, Truss, he's in a bit of a tricky position as he won't want to be going back to his chief support days, but at the same time he needs a couple of fights to rebuild himself, work on the shortcomings which cost him against Froch and build back some momentum. If he does indeed fight in Germany now and then as part of his Sauerland deal he's got the best of both worlds - while he's known over there, it's not to anything like the extent that he is over here in the UK. He can fight less than overwhelming opposition just far enough out of the spotlight while still fighting in front of decent crowds, without massive expectations on his shoulders.

Appreciate what you're saying about keeping him where he's hot, beefster, but ego and accountants need to be taken out of it to some degree right now, in my opinion. At 26, Groves can be a great long-term asset to Sauerland but he's in a dangerous place right now, so making the right and sensible moves for him has to come first. Even if he'd won at Wembley, he was always going to have to go back to the O2, Phones4U arena-type crowds in any case. Can't judge his every career move against an unfair baramoter.

I think Chris has outlined Groves' path pretty well. Groves should target Abraham for WBO, as AA is shot and he should be able to win that with little problem. Degale gets IBF and we see Degale v Groves 2 in 2015, with some more of the best pre-fight smack talk you have ever heard.

Groves was faced with 2 things in the second fight,

1. The need to pace himself for a 12 round fight. First fight he landed the right hand at will, as Booth said he got greedy with it and then fell off the pace a bit. He was being careful not to do this again.

2. A more cautious Froch. Because of the shellacking he took in the first 6 rounds Froch was understandably more cautious, as most predicted the rematch was a much cagier affair from both men.

These two factors made Groves performance look inferior to the first, and in turn made Froch's look better (as interpreted tenfold by the clown Jim Watt). I've watched it back a few times and I feel that Groves was landing his jab better than Froch and doing the cleaner work in the exchanges. Groves only took a couple of power shots all fight whereas Froch had to eat a lot more. The rounds Froch won he did so on workrate by rushing Groves with flurries. The punch stats & relative state of both mens faces the day after tell you who was landing the cleaner shots. Of course there was no argument about the outcome, but conclusive as it was Froch KO8 doesn't tell the whole story.

Personally I think Groves is a really good fighter; he has a good jab, good timing & footwork, he has very good power - not many have Froch seeing stars, and in the dust ups with Froch he showed a decent chin - better than he's credited for. He obviously needs to eradicate the sloppiness that allowed Froch to KO him and also his tendancy to get ragged & trade when caught clean, and he needs to work with a conditioning coach for every fight because he's not as much of a natural athlete as some - but then it's unlikely he'll meet anyone as fit & durable as Froch again. He's also a smart guy that can execute a gameplan. I'm certain GG will win a world title in the not too distant future.

Rodney wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think you are right that the fact Groves was so dominant early first time around made it look like Froch was doing better than he was...

For me though Froch was the aggressor, making the fight and Groves didn't do enough to win the close rounds..

But we all see different things.............and you aren't alone in your assessment.

I bet you didn't take that stance in the Maidana vs Mayweather fight.

Cheers Rodders

Not really comparable......are they Rod.

No two fights are.......

I had Leonard beating Hagler..............Better work.......and more of it !!.

Only go with the aggressor when a round is close.....I gave Maidana four rounds........When I got round to watching it...

I expect you had Maidana by shutout....and why not......

After all...Mayweather doesn't drink whisky...Fight in saloon's.... and smoke cigars like real fighters do !!    

In the first fight there were few rounds open to interpretation , in the second there were plenty. I genuinely think groves pitched the ' I 'm going to knock him out' line, but always planned a fight like the degale fight, where he fought to a game plan and paced himself. There was no little irony that he'd upped his work rate and had been doing his best work in the round and a half before the ko. He let froch close the distance on him too often though and it was his downfall.

Where does he go from here? Sauerland, as kalle said on the night, are used to building guys back up. Much depends on whether groves recovers mentally from the knock out. Some do some don't. I really like groves all round ability as a fighter, but he has his flaws and froch may be right that he lacks that champion's toughness. Time will tell.

Rodney wrote:

and_still wrote:Froch was ahead, his work rate was greater than that of Groves. Think Froch either stifled Groves' jab or Groves just wasn't as motivated but he wasn't throwing as much leather. I had Froch ahead by 3 and thats with the commentary off.

Was It ? doesnt matter, Groves was landing more shots.

Froch 3 up is extremely generous, even Eddie Hearn had it tighter than that.

Cheers Rodders

Froch was down on my card, at the fight. Not a fan of rewarding bluster with no product. Best shots and most clean landings seemed all Groves. Think I had it 4-2 GG with one round drawn from memory.

Rodney wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think you are right that the fact Groves was so dominant early first time around made it look like Froch was doing better than he was...

For me though Froch was the aggressor, making the fight and Groves didn't do enough to win the close rounds..

But we all see different things.............and you aren't alone in your assessment.

I bet you didn't take that stance in the Maidana vs Mayweather fight.

Cheers Rodders

   

milkyboy wrote:In the first fight there were few rounds open to interpretation , in the second there were plenty. I genuinely think groves pitched the ' I 'm going to knock him out' line, but always planned a fight like the degale fight, where he fought to a game plan and paced himself. There was no little irony that he'd upped his work rate and had been doing his best work in the round and a half before the ko. He let froch close the distance on him too often though and it was his downfall.

Where does he go from here? Sauerland, as kalle said on the night, are used to building guys back up. Much depends on whether groves recovers mentally from the knock out. Some do some don't. I really like groves all round ability as a fighter, but he has his flaws and froch may be right that he lacks that champion's toughness. Time will tell.

Not sure how much building up he needs.......

I imagine the two fights with Froch have been invaluable experience wise....

With Froch and Khan probably the biggest draw in Boxing over here...Be silly If they didn't cash in....

Problem is he's a headline act now and can't hide away..

Fair points truss... The building up refers to his confidence... You thought he was gunshy in froch 2. If he was, he's likely to have shell shock after it.

He might be genuinely philosophical about it, or scarred for life. They have two choices... The safer long term approach of building him back to a world title against a less intimidating opponent. Or the more risky approach of him getting straight back on the horse and cashing in on his name while people still remember it.

You prefer the cashing in approach... And I can see your point... But I think sauerland like to milk their cows slowly rather than cash them in at the meat market.

milkyboy wrote:Fair points truss... The building up refers to his confidence... You thought he was gunshy in froch 2. If he was, he's likely to have shell shock after it.

He might be genuinely philosophical about it, or scarred for life. They have two choices... The safer long term approach of building him back to a world title against a less intimidating opponent. Or the more risky approach of him getting straight back on the horse and cashing in on his name while people still remember it.

You prefer the cashing in approach... And I can see your point... But I think sauerland like to milk their cows slowly rather than cash them in at the meat market.

Good reply..........My point is he may never be this hot again............

You have a number 1 album... You don't wait a year to go on Tour......

He displayed diva-esque qualities in the build up to Froch 2....Now he has a stack of cash will he be as motivated I don't know.....

The gunshy point is a good one..................Degale is out for me...........But an Abraham or Bika is a possibility............Then again do you risk a fighter short on confidence after a deadly KO....

He's an interesting puzzle...

But is he short on confidence after that KO? It was a once in a lifetime million to one punch with many people thinking that Groves may have been about to overwhelm Froch.

I'd like to see him jump straight back into the mix and (hopefully) show everyone that a couple of losses are not the end of a career.

On the other hand if the KO has wrecked him then we could see why the 0 means so much.

We don't know derby... And he may not even know himself until he gets in the ring. Some guys can put it behind them and some can't.

George is a good talker and a thinker, my gut feel is that that is probably a bad thing, and that its likely to dwell on his mind. But hey its guesswork. History tells us that a large proportion of guys who get starched, suddenly start getting starched repeatedly. Some of that is that they go from being protected contenders to cannon fodder so are facing tougher opposition... But some of it is just a mental and physical reaction to what happened. Other guys carry on as if nothing happened.

It's not just the conscious mind it's also the unconscious one...

Your body reacts to certain things regardless of thought process........Muscle memory..

Walcott-Marciano 2 is a good one.............Walcott was beating Marciano before the "punch" the first time.....Have no doubt Walcott was confident before he became a blithering wreck when the bell sounded for the rematch.

Groves maybe unaffected or he may turn into Camacho post Rosario