England - played 2 lost 2 - we're coming home.

by Scrumpy Thu 19 Jun 2014, 8:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

So what went wrong?

So close yet so far, again.

by Lowlandbrit Fri 20 Jun 2014, 12:33 pm

Ent wrote:Some of the squads may have some lower division players but whorl with serious ambition of doing well do?

They are balanced out by genuine top class players and main men for their club sides if they do.

Most of the Dutch squad wouldn't get in the England squad, and Rooney and Sturridge outscored all their forwards last season. The idea that the England team is full of players that wouldn't get picked anywhere else is rubbish. They certainly have a problem with clubs bringing in foreign players to build their team around, and a lack of young English coaches getting a chance to make an impression (no way of working your way to the top if clubs ignore the lower leagues), but plenty of sides do more with a lot less.

by Ent Fri 20 Jun 2014, 12:43 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:
Ent wrote:Some of the squads may have some lower division players but whorl with serious ambition of doing well do?

They are balanced out by genuine top class players and main men for their club sides if they do.
Most of the Dutch squad wouldn't get in the England squad, and Rooney and Sturridge outscored all their forwards last season. The idea that the England team is full of players that wouldn't get picked anywhere else is rubbish. They certainly have a problem with clubs bringing in foreign players to build their team around, and a lack of young English coaches getting a chance to make an impression (no way of working your way to the top if clubs ignore the lower leagues), but plenty of sides do more with a lot less.

You are deluded if you think England have players of sufficient quality to do well in major tournaments - they are not just being mismanaged, they lack ability.

Some of the countries in the tournament lack quality in depth, but big and star players make up for that. As you have pointed out the dutch - yes I think England could do better with RVP, Robben and Sneijder in the side. They make up for the likes of Vlaar.

If you take an unbiased look at the quality of the squads who are doing well and expected to do well you will see they all have better players than England.

by GSC Fri 20 Jun 2014, 12:45 pm

Stuart Pearce was one of the most passionate and committed players to pull on an England shirt and no one was hurting more than the former full-back after the defeat to Uruguay, which has left the Three Lions on the verge of an early World Cup exit.

For Pearce, the problems are all too clear, having continually expressed his frustration during his reign as Under-21 boss that young players are not being given enough tournament experience before making the step up to senior level.

Speaking to Adrian Durham in the aftermath of the 2-1 loss to a Luis Suarez-inspired Uruguay, a passionate Pearce admitted the result came as no surprise to him.

“For me, the answer never lies at major tournaments, it lies in the two years in between the major tournaments and how we approach the whole system, the education of our young players, the development of our young players,” he said.

“Five years ago our Under-21s played the German Under-21s in the European finals. I look at their team then and the one that lined up against Portugal in the World Cup. Six of their players from the Under-21s carried on their progression, stayed in the senior squad, and actually played against Portugal the other day.

“I looked at our squad [for the Under-21 European Championship five years ago] and out of that squad there were no players in our starting line-up that five years ago made the same journey. James Milner was in the squad and played but obviously didn’t get on the pitch the other day [against Uruguay] and Joe Hart ended up being suspended so possibly you could say two [did make the journey].

“Why last summer were 17 of our young players missing from an Under-21 tournament? It infuriates the life out of me.

“The worst thing you can say to me is, ‘in two years’ time this team will be decent’. It won't be unless you put the process in place that all of these players go to the Under-21 Championship next summer. So [Raheem] Sterling goes, so [Jack] Wilshere goes and [Phil] Jones goes - all those that are Under-21 and available."

According to Pearce, the decision to include Southampton's 18-year-old full-back Luke Shaw in the squad ahead of Ashley Cole shows just where we are going wrong.

“Before the tournament I was asked who we should take, Luke Shaw or Ashley Cole. Common sense says you take Cole because Shaw goes to the Toulon tournament, plays five games against the likes of Brazil and Mexico and plays in the Under-21 qualifier. It is common sense," he said.

“I’m not sure what he [Shaw] has learnt from this tournament, apart from Brazil is a great place to visit. I am not being facetious here. If you asked me, from a purely footballing point of view, I would say five games in Toulon would be a lot more beneficial at international level than not kicking a ball in Brazil.

“He might play the next game, we might go through the tournament, and I might be proved wrong. If I am wrong, brilliant. I hope I am. I hope someone pins me and says, ‘you were a million miles wrong, we carried on doing it the way we were and it has worked famously and we have won the World Cup’. But I base everything I do on looking at other nations around the world and they send more of their players to the younger tournaments. They go to the younger tournaments and win things more regularly than we do.

“We, as a nation, haven’t won anything for 60 years at senior level. We haven’t won anything at Under-21 level since 1984 and in those days there were only eight teams in Europe. Now, we have got all 52 teams entering Europe and it is very difficult to do.

“The Under-19s haven’t won anything for decades. The Under-17s are the only team over the last five years that have been successful. They have won the European Championship twice. I asked myself the question why and it’s because our best young players are available at that age group.

“It is when they go beyond the Under-17s that the clubs start pulling them out, we start upgrading them because our pool of players is that thin, we drag them up age groups, so in the end every player in the senior squad that doesn’t actually play is being taken out an age group below so it makes that weaker and weaker and weaker. It waters down the whole process and the end of it we get results like Uruguay."

Pearce also had the same problems with young players skipping international duty when he managed Team GB at the London Olympics.

And he continued: "If you look at the Olympics in isolation, I had players pull out the Olympic squad because they preferred to go on a pre-season tour with their clubs. And there was a clamour for me to put an individual within the Olympic team for political reasons, more so than probably football reasons.

"Other countries must look at us and laugh at times, they really must.”

by Strongback Fri 20 Jun 2014, 12:46 pm

Football is a street game. In the 80's myself and my mates as kids played football 8 hours a day in the summer, that's where the skills are learned. Now there are so many things for kids to do that involve sitting on their arses there could be another Bobby Moore out there and he would never be discovered.

As to the suggest that England were useless even when the 3 player foreigner rule was is place I'd say look at Italia 1990.

by Guest Fri 20 Jun 2014, 12:49 pm

Yeah, agree. Media pressure on Roy to pick youth & he yielded. Shaw has learnt nothing from this tournament, only memories of a dire tournament. Taking Cole was a no-brainer after his performances against Liverpool & Atletico Madrid away from home. Hodgson got carried away with the 'youth' selection. They all should be developed & nurtured through the ranks, not just fast-tracked into the pressures of a major tournament. Shocking, we will never learn.

by GSC Fri 20 Jun 2014, 12:52 pm

I tend to disagree with the media pressure part. Shaw, Sterling, Barkley, Sturridge etc all came to the fore this season, hence their arrivals on the international scene this season.

Shaw realistically wasn't going to play barring injuries so he should've gone and played though.

by Stella Fri 20 Jun 2014, 12:58 pm

Strongback wrote:Football is a street game. In the 80's myself and my mates as kids played football 8 hours a day in the summer, that's where the skills are learned. Now there are so many things for kids to do that involve sitting on their arses there could be another Bobby Moore out there and he would never be discovered.

As to the suggest that England were useless even when the 3 player foreigner rule was is place I'd say look at Italia 1990.

We were useless when there were no foreigners, in the mid-late 70's.

by Ent Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:03 pm

Strongback wrote:Football is a street game. In the 80's myself and my mates as kids played football 8 hours a day in the summer, that's where the skills are learned. Now there are so many things for kids to do that involve sitting on their arses there could be another Bobby Moore out there and he would never be discovered.

As to the suggest that England were useless even when the 3 player foreigner rule was is place I'd say look at Italia 1990.

English clubs were banned from european competition until the 90-91 season. Foreigner rule came in in 92 I believe and was lifted for 95/6.

by Alistair Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:09 pm

I know people have jumped on Rooney for not turning up a major tournaments, but someone really needs to look at Gerrard because i'm struggling to see what he has brought to a major tournament in his career. He's been woeful for England in this world cup. We don't play like Liverpool. We shouldn't be playing with two holding midfielders to accomodate someone who hasn't got the legs.

I also don't buy Gerrard as England Captain; that's not a knee jerk, i just genuinely never have bought in him. As Danny Murphy (who played with Gerrard) stated, holding a huddle in the centre circle isn't being a leader. When you look at previous captains... Terry, Beckham, Shearer, Robson....they've all excelled as England Captain and led from the front, they've taken flak, turned in performances and cemented their legacy.

What has Gerrard done? Nothing.

For me, Lampard has always been the better player, a better leader and a better tournament player.

England haven't been woeful, individuals; whom the team is tailored towards, have let us down. There's no team unity (3 players went to Rooney after he scored), no hussle, no desire. Look at Chile against Spain. Every single player fighting for every ball, even when 2-0 up.

Unfortunately for Hodgson; whilst he may have bowed to the media by 'selecting' youth players he ultimately failed to give the vast majority a chance to impress, and you live and die by your choices.

If i were the FA, i'd be banging down Jurgen's door.

by Ent Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:13 pm

I completely disagree on the tournament experience thing too. I'm not sure the u21 thing correlates apart from Germany recently and they haven't won anything. Looked at the squads who have won the european and world youth tournaments - Spain won it 10 years prior to euro 2008. Germany in 09 and they made the final in 02, semis 06 and final in 08. Dutch won it twice and no major tournament wins, only Huntelaar troubling the squad for 2010 final.

Italy probably the best correlation with many of their players from the 00 and 04 winning squads in the WC 2006 squad.

Plenty of players have shone in their first major tournament, it is experience in general that is important - having several league seasons under your belt and a decent amount of caps.

Taking teenagers with 1 seasons experience and a handful of caps to tournaments to learn is stupid - they've just learned to fail at this tournament.

by Guest Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:20 pm

Alistair wrote:I know people have jumped on Rooney for not turning up a major tournaments, but someone really needs to look at Gerrard because i'm struggling to see what he has brought to a major tournament in his career. He's been woeful for England in this world cup. We don't play like Liverpool. We shouldn't be playing with two holding midfielders to accomodate someone who hasn't got the legs.

I also don't buy Gerrard as England Captain; that's not a knee jerk, i just genuinely never have bought in him. As Danny Murphy (who played with Gerrard) stated, holding a huddle in the centre circle isn't being a leader. When you look at previous captains... Terry, Beckham, Shearer, Robson....they've all excelled as England Captain and led from the front, they've taken flak, turned in performances and cemented their legacy. And what precisely did they win at international level?

What has Gerrard done? Nothing. He was out best player in South Africa...not saying much but who else turned up?

For me, Lampard has always been the better player, a better leader and a better tournament player. Lampard over Gerrard at any level...rubbish!

England haven't been woeful, individuals; whom the team is tailored towards, have let us down. There's no team unity (3 players went to Rooney after he scored), no hussle, no desire. Look at Chile against Spain. Every single player fighting for every ball, even when 2-0 up.

Unfortunately for Hodgson; whilst he may have bowed to the media by 'selecting' youth players he ultimately failed to give the vast majority a chance to impress, and you live and die by your choices.

If i were the FA, i'd be banging down Jurgen's door.

A German managing the England football team? They still hang people for treason you know!!!

by Stella Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:22 pm

Shearer won the Tournoi de France. Ok, not much to brag about.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:22 pm

The media pressure thing is a very weak argument.

by GSC Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:22 pm

Key for me is cultivating a positive environment where players can come in be confident.

Rather than current where players look afraid to try

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:25 pm

We all know how we could have got out of this group. Defensive football and playing for draws. And we'd have gone out at the quarters and everyone would have moaned.

Roy could have picked older players and he'd have got criticised. Sometimes some people have an idea and just bend different things to distort information and push their agenda.

by NickisBHAFC Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:26 pm

2 games we have played well but got 0 points. We played better than any match at World Cup 2010. Lots of positives and if you believe in miracles it's not over yet!

by NickisBHAFC Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:27 pm

Let's face it. Never if we won the World Cup people would still moan.

by Stella Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:28 pm

Does anyone believe we may still go through? It's not that unlikely that Italy will win both games. That leaves us needing to win by a couple.

by Alistair Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:28 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
Alistair wrote:I know people have jumped on Rooney for not turning up a major tournaments, but someone really needs to look at Gerrard because i'm struggling to see what he has brought to a major tournament in his career. He's been woeful for England in this world cup. We don't play like Liverpool. We shouldn't be playing with two holding midfielders to accomodate someone who hasn't got the legs.

I also don't buy Gerrard as England Captain; that's not a knee jerk, i just genuinely never have bought in him. As Danny Murphy (who played with Gerrard) stated, holding a huddle in the centre circle isn't being a leader. When you look at previous captains... Terry, Beckham, Shearer, Robson....they've all excelled as England Captain and led from the front, they've taken flak, turned in performances and cemented their legacy. And what precisely did they win at international level?

What has Gerrard done? Nothing. He was out best player in South Africa...not saying much but who else turned up?

For me, Lampard has always been the better player, a better leader and a better tournament player. Lampard over Gerrard at any level...rubbish!

England haven't been woeful, individuals; whom the team is tailored towards, have let us down. There's no team unity (3 players went to Rooney after he scored), no hussle, no desire. Look at Chile against Spain. Every single player fighting for every ball, even when 2-0 up.

Unfortunately for Hodgson; whilst he may have bowed to the media by 'selecting' youth players he ultimately failed to give the vast majority a chance to impress, and you live and die by your choices.

If i were the FA, i'd be banging down Jurgen's door.
A German managing the England football team? They still hang people for treason you know!!!

Hi Dave,

It's not about what they won, it's about what they brought to the table, it's how they conducted themselves as Captain, how the team responded and got behind them.

Shearer busted a gut for England. Put himself about and led by example; albeit playing FA politics.

Beckham wore his heart on his sleeve and took the game by the scruff of the neck (Greece, Old Trafford). He came back from being the most hated man in English football, to the most loved.

Terry; absolute arse off the pitch, but a dedicated leader on it.

Robson; Captain Marvel.

Gerrard certainly didn't turn up in South Africa. He scored against the US, that was it. Lamps was the better player, just look at the stats.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:28 pm

The media pressure thing is quite frankly BS

All the young players like Barkley, Shaw, Sterling, Lallana earnt there spot through consistent performances in the league

GSC is right in what he says we have potential at the minute, and are a team in transition. Someone made a good point last night that we have almost a "missed generation" between 24-30 and we're experiencing the downfalls of a lack of genuine quality.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:29 pm

Stella wrote:Does anyone believe we may still go through? It's not that unlikely that Italy will win both games. That leaves us needing to win by a couple.

Its not beyond the realms of possibility, but I'd imagine Uruguay will get something against Italy

by Strongback Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:35 pm

Ent wrote:
Strongback wrote:Football is a street game. In the 80's myself and my mates as kids played football 8 hours a day in the summer, that's where the skills are learned. Now there are so many things for kids to do that involve sitting on their arses there could be another Bobby Moore out there and he would never be discovered.

As to the suggest that England were useless even when the 3 player foreigner rule was is place I'd say look at Italia 1990.

English clubs were banned from european competition until the 90-91 season. Foreigner rule came in in 92 I believe and was lifted for 95/6.

The 3 foreigners plus two naturalized players rule was adopted by EUFA in 1991. Prior to that many leagues had foreign player rules going back to the 1960's. It should also be kept in mind that there were very few non-British players playing in England in the 1970's.

Also not be forgotten is Peter Shilton let in an absolute howler that stopped England qualifying for the 1974 World Cup.

by Ent Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:38 pm

Olly wrote:The media pressure thing is quite frankly BS

All the young players like Barkley, Shaw, Sterling, Lallana earnt there spot through consistent performances in the league

GSC is right in what he says we have potential at the minute, and are a team in transition. Someone made a good point last night that we have almost a "missed generation" between 24-30 and we're experiencing the downfalls of a lack of genuine quality.

You need to build a team. Roy had 2 years to do it and included several players either at the last minute or very late on.

Alright taking a punt on 1 youngster (most likely Sterling).

Barkley and Shaw are early in their PL careers, with no experience of European football and a handful of caps between them.

Did anyone seriously expect them to take the world cup by storm? Barkley for one shows his inexperience, he gives the ball away a lot stupidly.

by GSC Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:42 pm

These players only emerged as PL performers this season. What was Roy supposed to do, pick 20 random youth players everytime and hope some pan out?

by Ent Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:44 pm

Take the players he used through most of qualifying?

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:46 pm

Ent wrote:Take the players he used through most of qualifying?

Players who haven't been playing well all season? Like young, Cleverley, Carrick, Defoe, Carroll?

Nope I'd rather Roy do what he did, pick the guys who are playing well and are in form

by super_realist Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:50 pm

Why not take a load of youngsters? England have consistently proven that they aren't challengers in any tournament, so what have they got to gain by continuing with the same old hyped up and over-rated players who cannot perform in tournaments time and time again.

It shouldn't be a surprise or a concern when England fail. They have nothing to complain about. It should be the realistic expectation.
England have nothing to lose by completely changing their entire set up. The one they have demonstrably doesn't work, and nor does it look likely to.

Cruising through qualification is one thing, being a team other than one there to make up the numbers or progress past the last 16 is something entirely different, and it's about time those complaining and expressing some sort of misguided disappointment today ought to realise that.

by Duty281 Fri 20 Jun 2014, 2:01 pm

To anyone saying the English Premier League needs to introduce quotas based on nationality, please understand that the PL isn't allowed to do that because of the ruling set down by the fascist EU. It is, on another note, exactly the same reason as to why the World Cup will lose its guaranteed to be on Free-to-Air television sticker in the near-future.

As for Hodgson, he has to stay. If he perserved his rigid two banks of four from the 2012 European Championships, England may be sitting on two or four points now. But you wouldn't like the style of that, would you? Of course not. England have developed tactically and Hodgson has started bringing youth forward. The game against Italy was the best England have played for around a decade, and whilst we were average against Uruguay it was still better than anything four years ago. England are taking a step in the right direction.

Thus far, a lack of leadership (sorry Gerrard, you never were, nor will be, a good leader of your national team) and inexperience has been the big cost to England. I said before the tournament at how England should have tried to pick Terry (England's rightful captain) and should have certainly picked Cole (Baines would have been dropped after the first game, if Cole was in the squad).

Still...not over yet!

I hope Gerrard is dropped for the next game (that won't happen of course) for Wilshere, perhaps Barkley, with Hart given the armband. And I wonder if Oxlade is fit to play, he could come in for Welbeck if he is.

by Ent Fri 20 Jun 2014, 2:01 pm

super_realist wrote:Why not take a load of youngsters? England have consistently proven that they aren't challengers in any tournament, so what have they got to gain by continuing with the same old hyped up and over-rated players who cannot perform in tournaments time and time again.

It shouldn't be a surprise or a concern when England fail. They have nothing to complain about. It should be the realistic expectation.
England have nothing to lose by completely changing their entire set up. The one they have demonstrably doesn't work, and nor does it look likely to.

Cruising through qualification is one thing, being a team other than one there to make up the numbers or progress past the last 16 is something entirely different, and it's about time those complaining and expressing some sort of misguided disappointment today ought to realise that.

They didn't cruise though.

Hodgson had 2 years to put a team together for this world cup and made a mess of it and ended up bringing a load of inexperienced youngsters with him.

It is all well and good saying pick players in form but you can't just throw 11 players who never play together and expect them to function as a team.

Henderson, Shaw, Lallana, Sterling, Barkley not involved in qualifying - sturridge only started the last 2 games.

It is just very strange how he has gone about constructing his team and squad.

by super_realist Fri 20 Jun 2014, 2:04 pm

Duty, the EU is not Fascist for having laws which ensure citizens of Europe aren't discriminated against.
If anything it's completely the opposite.
Germany, Holland, Spain, Italy and France all have a great deal of "jonny foreigners" playing in their league, but unlike England can/have competed very recently in tournaments.
Blaming something other than themselves is another symptom of England's continued and predictable failure.

by Ent Fri 20 Jun 2014, 2:07 pm

super_realist wrote:Duty, the EU is not Fascist for having laws which ensure citizens of Europe aren't discriminated against.
If anything it's completely the opposite.
Germany, Holland, Spain, Italy and France all have a great deal of "jonny foreigners" playing in their league, but unlike England can/have competed very recently in tournaments.
Blaming something other than themselves is another symptom of England's continued and predictable failure.

Trying to debate with duty on the EU and the English national team in one go, talk about banging your head against a brick wall.

by Duty281 Fri 20 Jun 2014, 2:11 pm

super_realist wrote:Duty, the EU is not Fascist for having laws which ensure citizens of Europe aren't discriminated against.
If anything it's completely the opposite.
Germany, Holland, Spain, Italy and France all have a great deal of "jonny foreigners" playing in their league, but unlike England can/have competed very recently in tournaments.
Blaming something other than themselves is another symptom of England's continued and predictable failure.

I never said it was fascist for that reason, but do feel free to make things up. thumbsup

by Alistair Fri 20 Jun 2014, 2:49 pm

Olly wrote:
Ent wrote:Take the players he used through most of qualifying?
Players who haven't been playing well all season? Like young, Cleverley, Carrick, Defoe, Carroll?

Nope I'd rather Roy do what he did, pick the guys who are playing well and are in form

But he didn't when it came to the crunch.

Welbeck - Hardly in form.
Jagielka - Barely played because of injury.
Smalling, Jones - Utter rubbish.
Rooney - Hardly in form.
Wilshere - Barely played because of injury.

Whereas....

Barkley - Bags of potential, been class for Everton, pure, raw talent.
Lallana - One of the best breakthrough talents of the season. Runs all day, holds it up well, broke into the squad.
Lambert - Classic striker, another great season, gets you goals and his build up play is excellent.
Stones - One of the most promising CB's in recent memory, drawing comparisons with Bobby Moore, a regular in Everton's side, especially in Jagielka's absence.

by lorus59 Fri 20 Jun 2014, 3:27 pm

I saw a headline on the talksport website "Gerrard cost Liverpool the title and England the World Cup". Cruel to kick someone when they are down?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 20 Jun 2014, 3:36 pm

I think it came too early for Stones. And to be fair to Jagielka he proved himself fit and was a huge part of qualification. I think he picked a near perfect squad, though I still think Carrick and Carroll over Lambert and Lampard. Lambert was used exactly as I expected him to be, desperation and more crosses. Hes not as good in that situation as Carroll.

by sportform Fri 20 Jun 2014, 3:38 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:I hope Hodgson isn't sacked though. He has built a good young side here. Deserves a 4 year cycle. Especially when the alternative is as bad as 'Arry. Just need to be more flexible. Hope we don't see Gerrard in an England shirt again and completely revamp the defence. The likes of Shaw need to be given more chances to develop...

I agree. We sack Sven after three successive quarter finals because we thought we could do better but the grass is not always greener.

If we haven't got an abundance of world class players, changing the manager is not going to change much.

by kingraf Fri 20 Jun 2014, 3:49 pm

It is a little harsh on Gerrard, but to blame anyone else for the second goal is ridiculous. Suarez is five meters off when Gerrard gives the assist... Defence has no chance from there.

by sportform Fri 20 Jun 2014, 3:53 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:Henderson and Jagielka looked out of their depth.

Henderson has been one of our better players. Kept possession, moved the ball quickly and only Rooney has had more key passes. The reason England never do any good is because we slate technical players who keep the ball and praise headless chickens who run around plenty with little amd product. Sterling against Italy was a prime example of that.

We have had too many similar players up top in this World Cup who want to drop deep and just keep running into defenders.

by GSC Fri 20 Jun 2014, 3:59 pm

basically the "Carrick" excuse. He makes a few passes, no impact so he must be good and if you disagree you don't understand.

by sportform Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:14 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:Just came across this... Interesting article... http://www.firstpost.com/sports/drop-ge ... 79693.html

In fairness, Rooney was our best player yesterday and with 1 assist and 1 goal in 2 matches, this is already by far his best World Cup but he was starting from a low base and would be past his prime at the next World Cup (if he isn't already). If he couldn't deliver in his prime, should we keep faith in Wazza for 2018?

Also perhaps a change of strategy? Reverting to a 3 man midfield rather than the 2 man midfield we have right now?

Agreed. From watching the games and looking through the stats Rooney and Henderson have been our best two players. If you watch the goal bs Uruguay it was Henderson who initiated the move down the right. Sterling and Barkley haven't been great but have shown glimpse. With the right formation we could have done better.

Not sure why we didn't just copy Liverpool's 442 diamond and swap Coutinho and Suarez for Barkley and Rooney?

Hart
Johnson, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines
Gerrard
Henderson, Barkley
Sterling
Rooney, Sturridge

by AberdeenSteve Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:22 pm

I love reading this as a Scotland fan, pure class.

by GSC Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:28 pm

Someday Scotland may to be eliminated from a World Cup.

by Scrumpy Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:32 pm

AberdeenSteve wrote:I love reading this as a Scotland fan, pure class.

Never mind, we're all British. Very Happy

by The Special Juan Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:33 pm

AberdeenSteve wrote:I love reading this as a Scotland fan, pure class.

Would you like some of my England - played 2 lost 2 - we're coming home. - Page 2 1347041234

?

by Nakatomi Plaza Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:33 pm

whocares wrote:why we dont see more former English high profile players being involved with coaching?

Probably because there's easy money and less pressure in being a pundit.

by Scrumpy Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:35 pm

You never win anything with kids!

by AberdeenSteve Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:45 pm

The Special Juan wrote:
AberdeenSteve wrote:I love reading this as a Scotland fan, pure class.

Would you like some of my ?

Already have my own, stocked up known England were at the World Cup this summer.

GSC, we may get to a World Cup one day.. And we'll enjoy it for what it is. Unlike some other countries *cough* ENGLAND *cough*

by Guest Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:46 pm

Scrumpy wrote:You never win anything with kids!

Beautiful Baby competitions?

by Ent Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:48 pm

I'm not English but I don't see the problem in wanting to do well.

If you have 60 million people in the country, are a rich country and have a hugely popular and successful national league you should expect to do better in your national sport.

by sportform Fri 20 Jun 2014, 4:55 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:
Ent wrote:Some of the squads may have some lower division players but whorl with serious ambition of doing well do?

They are balanced out by genuine top class players and main men for their club sides if they do.
Most of the Dutch squad wouldn't get in the England squad, and Rooney and Sturridge outscored all their forwards last season. The idea that the England team is full of players that wouldn't get picked anywhere else is rubbish. They certainly have a problem with clubs bringing in foreign players to build their team around, and a lack of young English coaches getting a chance to make an impression (no way of working your way to the top if clubs ignore the lower leagues), but plenty of sides do more with a lot less.

I agree. Take Robben and Van Persie out of that Dutch team and they are pretty average.

Question is though, why do German challenge every year? That is more about confidence, picking the right players and tactics/ technique.

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