'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK

First topic message reminder :

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/27/britain-eu-no-evidence-civitas-nick-clegg_n_5536083.html

Would like to see further research into this as it shows we're not as reliant on the EU as we're led to believe.

My fingers are still tightly crossed for Scottish Independence.

Duty281 wrote:My fingers are still tightly crossed for Scottish Independence.

Why ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:My fingers are still tightly crossed for Scottish Independence.

Why ??

1) England may discover herself once more.
2) Less chance of there being future Labour governments.

You are mercenary.........

Point two doesn't surprise me............As for one what are you going to do..Wait till they win the vote and then invade!!

Like Edward the first..

I'd like to see Scotland vote no, but as a consequence just to show her we take no poopie, Prescription charges brought back in for them (and throw in Wales too, equality my butt cheeks)

Jaysus effin Christ, think we should start this country over again

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/04/hmrc-tax-wrong-compliance_n_5557245.html

Wonder who's going to pay for that error

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28317790

Absolute twaddle from the BBC. The fact that Juncker supports the single currency should tell it's own story.

Where's that bleeding referendum?

At the end of the day no one gives a f**k apart from a minority with nothing better to think about..

Hague campaigned on keeping the pound and got trashed..

Is my job safe....Are my Wife and kids ok....Are the health and educational facilities available to us up to standard....

That is what people care about and that is what the sceptics will never understand..

Truss your way wrong there mate.

A lot of people (particulary working class) are thinking that their jobs are going to be taken by EU Migrants (This is especially true in the building trade,) Go to the various little 'areas' in some of the rundown areas (Bear in mind I'm only talking North Manchester here though,) and find people with jobs.

A lot of people (again working class,) Are worried that health and education is falling due to migrants (It doesn't help when teachers are told to go and teach other kids English while others are struggling).

What others like yourself doesn't understand is people can be worried about all these things and still be a skeptic.

Add it all together with benefits, job seekers, spare room subsidy, 0 hour contracts (I haven't seen the EU stop them yet,) expense rows, mp's expenses. Wage freezes and there's big problems all over.

What the Europhiles don't understand is Europe is a small issue that people are bothered about but it's still an issue. The biggest issue is that Britain was promised a referendum which was reneged on. How are people supposed to trust the government if it doesn't go through on something like that.

On another note, if any of the parties want Europe to stop being such an issue then sort out the wages in this country.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/16/wages-falling-uk-inflation-employment-stats_n_5590375.html

What a good idea, Truss.

Bury our heads in the sand and ignore the problem. That's exactly how Nazi Germany got a foothold.

Never said that I wasn't interested....Just pointing out it's way down on the list of priorities..

The most important issue facing the UK electorate today is immigration; something which is greatly tied to the European Union.

The biggest problem these days is the broken promise (why trust a politician if he can run on a lie.)

The other is the immigration, to be fair the government seem to be making inroads into it now by stating you can't claim benefits unless you've worked here on a taxable wage for a minium of 3 months, and you'll have to pay towards health care if your not a UK national.

Sort the schools out proper and give us a living wage and we might see the country stop worrying about so called non issues.

Duty281 wrote:The most important issue facing the UK electorate today is immigration; something which is greatly tied to the European Union.

Disagree.

1. Everyone has a different priority list, immigration is certainly not the top of mine.

2. Those that do have it at the top are a fairly small (and arguably narrow minded [if that's all they care about]) proportion of the electorate and, potentially, part of a pool not that likely to vote anyway.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:The most important issue facing the UK electorate today is immigration; something which is greatly tied to the European Union.

Disagree.

1. Everyone has a different priority list, immigration is certainly not the top of mine.

2. Those that do have it at the top are a fairly small (and arguably narrow minded [if that's all they care about]) proportion of the electorate and, potentially, part of a pool not that likely to vote anyway.

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3410/EconomistIpsos-MORI-June-2014-Issues-Index.aspx

Think the problem your seeing is that it's not one issue, there's a bunch of issues and as Toppy says it really depends on your personal situation, BUT major issue's seem to be at the moment

1. Lack of Housing
2. Costing of Bills
3. Food prices rising
4. Lack of Jobs/decent contracts
5. Schooling
6. Benefits
7. Health Care

A lot of it overlaps with immigration and shows that in some places the system needs tightening up. E.G Housing, Benefits.

Energy Bills - Government should have never sold of British Gas/Or it should start up it's own heating company, you can still run it for a bit of profit to go in the coffers whilst charging the poor and vulnerable cost prices.

Schooling, Each child must be able to speak English at a decent level, if not the child can be taught English but the extra cost is charged to the parent and the child isn't disrupting the rest of the class. Also SATS for children under 12 are dropped, Let the teachers teach the kids instead of aiming for targets.

Health Care - Free NHS is only available to residents of the UK that have lived here for x amount of years. Get rid of targets and get back to looking after the patients.

Benefits - Benefits only available to residents of the UK for x amount of years. To come and live here adopt a policy like US/Oz where you have to prove you can afford your stay.
Make people work for JSA and give them a reason to get up/learn a skill.

Can I make a major point that everyone seems to forget. Nobody is really bothered if someone is coming over to this country to work, pay taxes/rent etc. It's when you see the vast swathes of people claming benefits, sending them home whilst doing nothing that is an issue.

With regards to our education in this country - and as you quite correctly point out this does tie in with the European and our resultant open borders - I do genuinely believe our entire system needs to be torn up and subsequently rewritten. Total shambles.

Duty281 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:The most important issue facing the UK electorate today is immigration; something which is greatly tied to the European Union.

Disagree.

1. Everyone has a different priority list, immigration is certainly not the top of mine.

2. Those that do have it at the top are a fairly small (and arguably narrow minded [if that's all they care about]) proportion of the electorate and, potentially, part of a pool not that likely to vote anyway.

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3410/EconomistIpsos-MORI-June-2014-Issues-Index.aspx

That's just one poll though.

And I'm sure Truss can post an opposing list, as I think he did once before when we had a similar discussion (re trade unions that time).

Duty281 wrote:With regards to our education in this country - and as you quite correctly point out this does tie in with the European and our resultant open borders - I do genuinely believe our entire system needs to be torn up and subsequently rewritten. Total shambles.

Care to explain your reasoning?

The schools are full Toppy, children aren't getting the time to learn what they need to do and are being pushed forward far too quickly. Teachers aren't getting the time to sit with children that need extra help due to not only extra children in the class but also Foreign children that don't know the language (A class of 45 that had 4 teachers lost 2 to 3 children that were learning English,).

They system needs an overhaul to not only assist those children with languages (No child should be denied an education) but those that struggle.

Testing them does them no favours either as it adds a lot of stress to young children that are struggling with other things at the time.

The very best thing we could do is to actually discuss with the teachers what they think is best (Not the unions, the teachers.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28347234

Thank you New Labour.

I wonder where these extra places are going to be found then, or will class sizes reach 30-40 as the norm?

Duty281 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28347234

Thank you New Labour.

I wonder where these extra places are going to be found then, or will class sizes reach 30-40 as the norm?

The hike in numbers had been fuelled by the birth rate broadly rising since 2002, government statisticians said.

The extra places are for British children, not foreign....

Duty281 wrote:The most important issue facing the UK electorate today is immigration; something which is greatly tied to the European Union.

It can't be that high up people's lists otherwise anti-immigration parties would win GE eg BNP or UKIP but neither of those parties has ever won a seat in parliament.

It is all well you posting links to polls showing people want a referendum on the EU or want to leave the EU or their main concern is immigration but when the GE happens people never vote for the parties that offer the referendum or are anti-immigration etc.

People might care enough in a poll but when it comes to serious business eg general elections they obviously don't care.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:The most important issue facing the UK electorate today is immigration; something which is greatly tied to the European Union.

It can't be that high up people's lists otherwise anti-immigration parties would win GE eg BNP or UKIP but neither of those parties has ever won a seat in parliament.

It is all well you posting links to polls showing people want a referendum on the EU or want to leave the EU or their main concern is immigration but when the GE happens people never vote for the parties that offer the referendum or are anti-immigration etc.

People might care enough in a poll but when it comes to serious business  eg general elections they obviously don't care.

Of course people care about such things. It is why in 2010 there was a coalition.

Don't wish to sound condescending CS but willing to give it a go again, just like V2 magnanimously has for you. Whether you wish to engage in a civil and non-repetitive manor is up to you.

skyeman wrote:Don't wish to sound condescending CS but willing to give it a go again, just like V2 magnanimously has for you. Whether you wish to engage in a civil and non-repetitive manor is up to you.

I take it your random offering of a 'second chance' is because you have realised that the Off Topic section consists mainly of Duty, Truss and Tophat and you are bored of debating with the same people.

How is it random?. Only offered it to you.   Been away for a while, but i did miss it  

You forgot DM though.

Anyways, i can see you now.   

skyeman wrote:How is it random?. Only offered it to you.   Been away for a while, but i did miss it  

You forgot DM though.

Anyways, i can see you now.   

Nah keep me on your foe list.

Morning Skye,

Don't remind him I'm here, we've been having a couple of good debates lately and wondered where you'd been up too.

Duty, it's all blowing smoke as is the lib dems U turn on the spare room subsidy and Labour stating that they want to bring some of the railways under public control.

The problem is none of them seem to have a clue. You can guarantee as many English places as you want but the minute some poor child from whichever country has nowhere to go they'll take a place (Rightly so btw, as I mentioned every child deserves an education.)

We'd be better off teaching the teachers to deal with bigger class's and how to deal with the differing levels that ALL children learn at.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:Don't wish to sound condescending CS but willing to give it a go again, just like V2 magnanimously has for you. Whether you wish to engage in a civil and non-repetitive manor is up to you.

I take it your random offering of a 'second chance' is because you have realised that the Off Topic section consists mainly of Duty, Truss and Tophat and you are bored of debating with the same people.

'Duty, Truss and Tophat' - and yourself in the gaps between being banned you bell-end



That said, since your soppy drunken PM's a few weeks back, there's no point replying as you've blocked me again anyway apparently

Derbymanc wrote:Morning Skye,

Don't remind him I'm here, we've been having a couple of good debates lately and wondered where you'd been up too.

Yeh, funny how pragmatic reasonable debating has flourished in CS's absence, isn't it...??

Welcome back CS..

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:Don't wish to sound condescending CS but willing to give it a go again, just like V2 magnanimously has for you. Whether you wish to engage in a civil and non-repetitive manor is up to you.

I take it your random offering of a 'second chance' is because you have realised that the Off Topic section consists mainly of Duty, Truss and Tophat and you are bored of debating with the same people.

'Duty, Truss and Tophat' - and yourself in the gaps between being banned you bell-end



That said, since your soppy drunken PM's a few weeks back, there's no point replying as you've blocked me again anyway apparently

Why do I never get any PMs off him?

I'm just a jealous guy...

No surer fire way of encouraging pragmatic reasonable debating than calling someone a bell end.

Rowley wrote:No surer fire way of encouraging pragmatic reasonable debating than calling someone a bell end.

i.e. Play nicely children or I'll slap you down so hard you'll have to fly back home from China

Rowley wrote:No surer fire way of encouraging pragmatic reasonable debating than calling someone a bell end.

ship sailed long ago.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:How is it random?. Only offered it to you.   Been away for a while, but i did miss it  

You forgot DM though.

Anyways, i can see you now.   

Nah keep me on your foe list.

Your wish is my command!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/16/scottish-independence-juncker_n_5590637.html

Lucky old Scotland I say, if they do indeed vote for independence.