Paddy Jackson in racist picture scandal

by madmaccas Fri 11 Jul 2014, 10:42 am

First topic message reminder :

Jeez, this is up there with the 2011 England team's World Cup debacle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28259305

Blacking up is politically incorrect enough as it is, wearing chains and hand cuffs is downright offensive.

by **Notch** Fri 11 Jul 2014, 12:56 pm

by SecretFly Fri 11 Jul 2014, 12:56 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Just to clarify, you wrote 'Peter' Jackson, i.e. Director of Braindead.

Did I?

Oh well, I ain't perfect neither then... which shocks me. Wink

Anyway, Peter Jackson is a 'racist' too against small people with big ears and hairy feet. I don't see how he wasn't arrested for his portrayal of them folks.

by Sin é Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:01 pm

Kingshu wrote:Think it said pic was 2 years ago so Paddy was only about 18 or so at the time, a misjudged mistake
Chris Henry should have known better though.

It is a difficult one, racism is hard to judge, dressing up as a black person isfrowned on, yet the film white chicks is ok

Doing a Scottish accent is funny doing an indian one is frowned on.

All in all people get offened at everything these days, but this clearly is very close to or crosses the line, and should have been avoided.

It is a problem if Paddy Jackson doesn't see anything demeaning to black people by blackening his body and putting chains around his neck.

From what I can gather, Paddy Jackson is a decent lad who isn't racist. The problem is that the place he has grown up has made him immune to others sensitivities

The society he has been brought up in turns a blind eye to the ritual bonfire burning of photos of Anna Lo - sticking a bit of black stuff on his face and throwing a few chains around his neck is mild in comparison.

by Guest Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:02 pm

Notch wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Notch wrote:
Munchkin wrote:What makes it Black and White minstrel make up, Notch?

The very exaggerated dark facial make-up which is much darker than the body make-up he and the other four guys are wearing is pretty reminiscent of the B&W minstrel show in terms of style. It's blackface make-up.

We don't know why his make up was darker than that of the others, but it's a leap to claim it as Black and White minstrel make up when, without the addition of white make up, it clearly isn't.

No you're missing the point. That is not what black people actually look like. It's a caricature of what black people look like- not aiming at realism. That is derogatory, in the exact same way the black and white minstrel make up is.

If you're just dressing up as someone and actually trying to look like them, put whatever face paint on you want. Realism is realism. But once you get into the realms of caricature, the ice starts to crack.

But to suggest that it is Minstrel make up is to have already judged the incident as racist. The reason being that today people associate the Black and White minstrel show with racism.
Notch, for any white person to try and actually look black African, it would require the service of a professional make up artist, and a couple of hours to complete. Even then it wouldn't be convincing. To some extent it will always look like a caricature, and in one sense that is exactly what it always will be, with or without racist intent.
I get your point on the darker shade, but we don't know why it was darker, and we don't know why he had the cord around him. For me, I will wait until he explains the reason for this.

Still a stupid thing to do though...

by Scrumpy Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:02 pm

What century is it in Ireland?

I say throw the book at them.
Disgraceful, unacceptable behaviour.

by Guest Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:11 pm

Scrumpy wrote:What century is it in Ireland?

I say throw the book at them.
Disgraceful, unacceptable behaviour.

Hmmm. Stones in glass houses, and all that.

'what century is it in Ireland?' I doubt that comment was truly xenophobic, but others might have a different perception...

by Scrumpy Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:13 pm

Anyone who tries to defend these idiots really need to think about what they are saying!

There is no place for that sort of behaviour in this day and age.

by Guest Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:21 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Anyone who tries to defend these idiots really need to think about what they are saying!

There is no place for that sort of behaviour in this day and age.

Nobody is defending racism, or racists, on these boards.

by SecretFly Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:28 pm

Scrumpy wrote:What century is it in Ireland?
I say throw the book at them.
Disgraceful, unacceptable behaviour.

The Century of Elected Heads of State? Wink

But you're right, at least the Royal Family wouldn't be caught out insulting the little people of the world with crass caricatures or having Swastika parties for the rooming boys.

Oh, and almost forgot, sure isn't Paddy a UK citizen an'all and everything like that anyway??!!! He's in the same Century as Prince Philip and Harry. BTW, I quite like Philip and Harry - must be their anarchical, anti-establishment attitudes to platitudinous PCness.

by Scrumpy Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:35 pm

These lads must be really THICK to put pictures like this on social media sites in this day and age.

by Nachos Jones Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:38 pm

Jayus, I am sick of all this racist shoite.

What would have happened if he dressed in a kilt, wore a tartan hat with an orange wig and walked around saying 'Hoot man'. Would that be considered racist against the Scots?

What would have happened if he dressed up in a pair of Stubbies shorts, white t-shirt, a broad rimmed hat with corks hanging off it and walked around saying, 'gudday shela' whould that be racist against the Aussies?

The answer is NO. It only becomes racist when the colour black is involved. People are more sensitive about that than anything else in the world and its disgusting to say the least.

Sure, didn't the Wayans brothers do a film where they made themselves white and took the urine out of white people, cant remember anyone getting offended by that. Eddie Murphy used to do a skit where he dressed up as a whit man and walked through shopping centres. Is that also racist?

In short, I see nothing wrong with what they did, it was just a little dress up and a bit of fun.

by Scrumpy Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:40 pm

You don't think the chain is a little too far? or maybe you think its just some good craic?

by Chunky Norwich Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:42 pm

Is that racist:

Paddy Jackson in racist picture scandal - Page 2 Robertdowney

by GunsGerms Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:42 pm

Kingshu wrote:Think it said pic was 2 years ago so Paddy was only about 18 or so at the time, a misjudged mistake
Chris Henry should have known better though.

It is a difficult one, racism is hard to judge, dressing up as a black person isfrowned on, yet the film white chicks is ok

Doing a Scottish accent is funny doing an indian one is frowned on.

All in all people get offened at everything these days, but this clearly is very close to or crosses the line, and should have been avoided.

Spot on. If you do something that can be interpreted as racist then someone like Cyril or Scrumpy will claim they are extremely offended even if they arent.

Its very unlikely Jackson is any more racist or prejudiced than anyone else but he certainly should know better than to leave himself open to the speculation that he may be by dressing in such a silly way.

by beshocked Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:47 pm

Huge credit must be given to Ulster Rugby to apologise straight away for the foolishness of some of their players.

If one acknowledges fault then forgiveness is possible. In this case Ulster rugby have acted like a rugby club should.

Paddy Jackson must follow the example of his club and apologise.

Once this happens I am sure this "scandal" will be forgotten.

by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:47 pm

Nachos it's not the makeup that is the real offence here it's the chains on PJ that firmly point a finger to slavery which is going a tad too far.
Mind you From the early 1600s to 1800 many 1000s of irish people were sent to slave conditions in the carribean and US along with those from the African continent as part of the trade in human labour that marked the start of the slave trade.
Also, as it seems PJ is bearing the brunt perhaps the others in the picture should have at least told him to get rid of the chains, Chris Henry, Andy Trimble, Michael Allen and Mike McComish are in full makeup but without the chains.
What really gets me is this picture is 2 years old and should really have disappeared to be forgotten instead of being posted again to attract the band wagon society members like scrumpy etc.

by Scrumpy Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:47 pm

I am offended as it goes Guns.

by GunsGerms Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:47 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Is that racist:

No more racist that this. Tropic thunder was dreadful though at least Murphy is funny.

Eddie murphy "Mr White":

by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:52 pm

Scrumpy wrote:I am offended as it goes Guns.

Why are you offended?
Do explain.
Or do you simply choose to be offended?

by Cyril Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:52 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Think it said pic was 2 years ago so Paddy was only about 18 or so at the time, a misjudged mistake
Chris Henry should have known better though.

It is a difficult one, racism is hard to judge, dressing up as a black person isfrowned on, yet the film white chicks is ok

Doing a Scottish accent is funny doing an indian one is frowned on.

All in all people get offened at everything these days, but this clearly is very close to or crosses the line, and should have been avoided.

Spot on. If you do something that can be interpreted as racist then someone like Cyril or Scrumpy will claim they are extremely offended even if they arent.

Its very unlikely Jackson is any more racist or prejudiced than anyone else but he certainly should know better than to leave himself open to the speculation that he may be by dressing in such a silly way.

This idea that it's all "PC-gone-mad" and people being over-sensitive is good way to ensure that this kind of behaviour is brushed under the carpet and will continue to happen.

by GunsGerms Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:54 pm

Cyril wrote:
This idea that it's all "PC-gone-mad" and people being over-sensitive is good way to ensure that this kind of behaviour is brushed under the carpet and will continue to happen.

If I thought your comments were sincere I might reply but you are just being a pain in the hole as usual.

by beshocked Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:56 pm

Cyril wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Think it said pic was 2 years ago so Paddy was only about 18 or so at the time, a misjudged mistake
Chris Henry should have known better though.

It is a difficult one, racism is hard to judge, dressing up as a black person isfrowned on, yet the film white chicks is ok

Doing a Scottish accent is funny doing an indian one is frowned on.

All in all people get offened at everything these days, but this clearly is very close to or crosses the line, and should have been avoided.

Spot on. If you do something that can be interpreted as racist then someone like Cyril or Scrumpy will claim they are extremely offended even if they arent.

Its very unlikely Jackson is any more racist or prejudiced than anyone else but he certainly should know better than to leave himself open to the speculation that he may be by dressing in such a silly way.
This idea that it's all "PC-gone-mad" and people being over-sensitive is good way to ensure that this kind of behaviour is brushed under the carpet and will continue to happen.

I certainly agree it shouldn't be brushed under the carpet. It was a foolish thing to do. Paddy Jackson should apologise of course but other than that what do you suggest? It's not as if Ulster rugby have stuck their heads in the sand - they have held up their hands and said that the actions of one of their players was foolish. They apologised for his error and must be given credit for it.

by Scrumpy Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:57 pm

Pathetic guys, this site really has gone down hill when people who don't believe blacking yourself up and wearing chains for fun isn't possibly a little too near the mark or way over it for some.

Let me guess most of you are White?

by Sin é Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:57 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:Jayus, I am sick of all this racist shoite.

What would have happened if he dressed in a kilt, wore a tartan hat with an orange wig and walked around saying 'Hoot man'. Would that be considered racist against the Scots?

What would have happened if he dressed up in a pair of Stubbies shorts, white t-shirt, a broad rimmed hat with corks hanging off it and walked around saying, 'gudday shela' whould that be racist against the Aussies?

The answer is NO. It only becomes racist when the colour black is involved. People are more sensitive about that than anything else in the world and its disgusting to say the least.

Sure, didn't the Wayans brothers do a film where they made themselves white and took the urine out of white people, cant remember anyone getting offended by that. Eddie Murphy used to do a skit where he dressed up as a whit man and walked through shopping centres. Is that also racist?

In short, I see nothing wrong with what they did, it was just a little dress up and a bit of fun.

Its not the colour black, its the colour of the skin. Wearing a kilt or a pair of stubbies is fairly normal everyday behaviour - lots do it. Its not normal behaviour to blacken your face and hang chains around your neck depicting people who were very poorly treated in the past and which they are still sensitive to.

Its like the potato jokes that Irish people have to tolerate and which are racist. They are not funny when you think of how the pototo joke came to be in the first place.

by Nachos Jones Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:57 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:Nachos it's not the makeup that is the real offence here it's the chains on PJ that firmly point a finger to slavery which is going a tad too far.
Mind you From the early 1600s to 1800 many 1000s of irish people were sent to slave conditions in the carribean and US along with those from the African continent as part of the trade in human labour that marked the start of the slave trade.
Also, as it seems PJ is bearing the brunt perhaps the others in the picture should have at least told him to get rid of the chains, Chris Henry, Andy Trimble, Michael Allen and Mike McComish are in full makeup but without the chains.
What really gets me is this picture is 2 years old and should really have disappeared to be forgotten instead of being posted again to attract the band wagon society members like scrumpy etc.

Oh but it apparently is too some on here.

by Cyril Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:58 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Cyril wrote:
This idea that it's all "PC-gone-mad" and people being over-sensitive is good way to ensure that this kind of behaviour is brushed under the carpet and will continue to happen.

If I thought your comments were sincere I might reply but you are just being a pain in the hole as usual.

Why reply in that manner? There's no need to make things personal.

by Scrumpy Fri 11 Jul 2014, 1:58 pm

Thats all these people know cyril

by Sin é Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:01 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Is that racist:

No more racist that this. Tropic thunder was dreadful though at least Murphy is funny.

Eddie murphy "Mr White":

Since when were white people treated badly by black people? White people dehumanised black people. Whites were never dehumanised by black people.

by SecretFly Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:01 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Thats all these people know cyril

These Paddys?

Come on...out with it! Don't be shy.

by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:01 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Nachos it's not the makeup that is the real offence here it's the chains on PJ that firmly point a finger to slavery which is going a tad too far.
Mind you From the early 1600s to 1800 many 1000s of irish people were sent to slave conditions in the carribean and US along with those from the African continent as part of the trade in human labour that marked the start of the slave trade.
Also, as it seems PJ is bearing the brunt perhaps the others in the picture should have at least told him to get rid of the chains, Chris Henry, Andy Trimble, Michael Allen and Mike McComish are in full makeup but without the chains.
What really gets me is this picture is 2 years old and should really have disappeared to be forgotten instead of being posted again to attract the band wagon society members like scrumpy etc.

Oh but it apparently is too some on here.

Indeed but they are the ones with the problem and really need to take of the overtly 'PC' tinted glasses. If they can't see the true offence here then they are missing the very point they are attempting to make about racism.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:06 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Thats all these people know cyril

Yeah, we are all stuck in the stone age. We just don't know any better.

But yeah, that's it, let all the prejudices come to light. The hypocrisy here is quite remarkable.

BTW I would genuinely like to know what the chains were about, and I will be trying to find out. It was a silly stunt to pull. But it does not need such a big deal made out of it. Scumpy, you asked if the majority of people commenting on this topic are white. I would say the answer is yes. But it works both ways, I could ask the same question about those getting offended.

by HammerofThunor Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:08 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:Mind you From the early 1600s to 1800 many 1000s of irish people were sent to slave conditions in the carribean and US along with those from the African continent as part of the trade in human labour that marked the start of the slave trade.

Aye, same with Chinese in the West and many other groups of people. But slavery was only abolished in Ethiopia well into the 20th century. Highly likely that people alive now may well have been bought and sold. Not sure if they follow Paddy Jackson on Twitter though.

by Guest Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:12 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Thats all these people know cyril

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:12 pm

Sin é wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Is that racist:

No more racist that this. Tropic thunder was dreadful though at least Murphy is funny.

Eddie murphy "Mr White":

Since when were white people treated badly by black people? White people dehumanised black people. Whites were never dehumanised by black people.

Since when has the history of your forefathers been used to judge you now? A human being of any creed/race/sexuality/skin colour and discriminate against another for them having a different creed/race/sexuality/skin colour. Whether decades back someone sharing the same creed/race/sexuality/skin colour as you was a victim or was an abuser it does not matter, it is what you do that matters.

by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:13 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Mind you From the early 1600s to 1800 many 1000s of irish people were sent to slave conditions in the carribean and US along with those from the African continent as part of the trade in human labour that marked the start of the slave trade.

Aye, same with Chinese in the West and many other groups of people. But slavery was only abolished in Ethiopia well into the 20th century. Highly likely that people alive now may well have been bought and sold. Not sure if they follow Paddy Jackson on Twitter though.

I think he may have a few Ethiopian followers now though Hammer Smile

by Scrumpy Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:Thats all these people know cyril

Idiots, numpties, tossers, Meat trombone soloist, Kumquat, Frak, or racists you choose!

by Standulstermen Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:The outfits looked Ok at a glance then I saw the chains. That is beyond poor taste. I doubt very much that an English player jesting about the Irish potato famine would go down well and what the moron is doing is along those lines.

The fact he made it his profile picture just further increases the idiocy of the situation. Slavery wasn't and isn't a joke and as he appears to be declaring so publicly that it is was always bound to be taken as offensive. The apology was necessary and more may be forthcoming.

Agree totally. Don't see the issue with anyone bar Jackson. He should be made to apologise and warned about his future conduct. If he wasn't at the time, he is now an Ireland international and a role model so putting it up on twitter or wherever is beyond stupid too.

by GunsGerms Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

Sin é wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Is that racist:

No more racist that this. Tropic thunder was dreadful though at least Murphy is funny.

Eddie murphy "Mr White":

Since when were white people treated badly by black people? White people dehumanised black people. Whites were never dehumanised by black people.

So what you are saying is all white people are the same?

by Standulstermen Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:20 pm

Sin é wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Think it said pic was 2 years ago so Paddy was only about 18 or so at the time, a misjudged mistake
Chris Henry should have known better though.

It is a difficult one, racism is hard to judge, dressing up as a black person isfrowned on, yet the film white chicks is ok

Doing a Scottish accent is funny doing an indian one is frowned on.

All in all people get offened at everything these days, but this clearly is very close to or crosses the line, and should have been avoided.

It is a problem if Paddy Jackson doesn't see anything demeaning to black people by blackening his body and putting chains around his neck.

From what I can gather, Paddy Jackson is a decent lad who isn't racist. The problem is that the place he has grown up has made him immune to others sensitivities

The society he has been brought up in turns a blind eye to the ritual bonfire burning of photos of Anna Lo - sticking a bit of black stuff on his face and throwing a few chains around his neck is mild in comparison.

I think you are guilty of exactly the behaviour you are trying to condemn here sin. Very silly and incorrect comment anyway

by Sin é Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:21 pm

What is silly and incorrect Stand?

by GunsGerms Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:23 pm

Lets not discuss the bonfires here.

by Guest Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:23 pm

Sin é wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Is that racist:

No more racist that this. Tropic thunder was dreadful though at least Murphy is funny.

Eddie murphy "Mr White":

Since when were white people treated badly by black people? White people dehumanised black people. Whites were never dehumanised by black people.

History, and very recent history, would suggest otherwise, Sin. To treat others as inferior, or to persecute any for differences, whether colour of skin, religion, social status, gender or sexuality is simply wrong, regardless of colour of skin, religion, social status, gender or sexuality of those that persecute.

by Standulstermen Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:28 pm

I was unaware that the burning of Anna Lo's picture had a become a 'ritual' and as for it being turned a blind eye to perhaps you missed the newspapers articles highlighting it and indeed the unionist politicians calling on the pictures to be removed and I say that as someone who has no love for bonfires or the 12th (except for a day off).

I would also question your ability to judge 'the place' in which paddy Jackson grew up and how that is to blame for his poor judgement in this photo

by Sin é Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:30 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Sin é wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Is that racist:

No more racist that this. Tropic thunder was dreadful though at least Murphy is funny.

Eddie murphy "Mr White":

Since when were white people treated badly by black people? White people dehumanised black people. Whites were never dehumanised by black people.

History, and very recent history, would suggest otherwise, Sin. To treat others as inferior, or to persecute any for differences, whether colour of skin, religion, social status, gender or sexuality is simply wrong, regardless of colour of skin, religion, social status, gender or sexuality of those that persecute.

You still have to be ultra sensitive to those who were very poorly treated. Apartheid in SA only ended a few years ago.

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:30 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:Thats all these people know cyril

Idiots, numpties, tossers, Meat trombone soloist, Kumquat, Frak, or racists you choose!

Seems you gave the swear filter a bit of exercise there.

by HammerofThunor Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:31 pm

Is it time to shut this one down? I don't think it's got any legs other than as a general discussion about racism, which should be in the off topic section.

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