Anti-topic!

Ok, we're in mid-season break so a quick anti-hero question...what do you think is the biggest meltdown match for the Big 4 or any player past or present if spectacular enough? You know, the one that still causes them insomnia and cold sweats. Also, why the meltdown in the match?

My initial suggestion? Federer.
Up 2 match points at USO '11 against Djokovic during Novak's epic year. It would have been a spectacular win. Instead he saw his 1st serve at 40-15 returned with THAT forehand winner. He still had match point but Roger completely lost it after that, blowing the next match point then double faulting on break point. He was then double breaked in the final set. I simply feel he could not mentally handle how Djokovic swung so freely on match point. He couldn't fathom it and lost the plot. That match must still keep him awake at times.

Any other meltdowns/haunters that come to mind?

Wasn't Sabatini something like 6-1, 5-1, 40-0 in one match and still lost?
Pernfors was 6-1, 6-1, 4-1 vs Connors and lost in 5.
Novotna vs. Graf also springs to mind.
 
Those were all pretty spectacular.

Actually yeah you're right with Sabatini! Don't think her career recovered after that?

Didn't Malivai Washington blow a strong lead vs Todd Martin at Wimbledon once too?

...and think Fed had MP vs Safin at AO'05?

...also, wasn't he serving with a break 6-5 and 30-0 up vs Nalbandian at WTF05 and lost the match?

Not as spectacular as JHM's and maybe the Federer one but from a Murray supporters view. Wimbledon semi 2011 Murray v Nadal. Murray a set up playing strongly and aggressively 2-1 up in set 2 and Nadal 15-30 on his serve. Murray has what should have been an easy FH put away, hits it long and crumbles to lose the next 7 games. Finally losing the match 5-7, 6-2, 6-2, 6-4. First time I had serious doubts about his ability to win a slam and almost certainly the moment that heralded the Lendl appointment.

I think Gasquet at Wimbledon just gone. 9 MP's to win in straights!

McEnroe v Lendl at RG 1984 comes to mind.

Mac undefeated all year and 2 sets to love up (and later 4-2 in the 4th) but still couldn't get it done.

But I agree with Lydian, that Federer one at USO 11 is the biggest I can think of. OK, not a lot he could have done about the first match point, it was just a great return. But from that point on, it was error after error from Federer.

Not as important a match but Djokovic v Berdych in Rome 2013 was a big meltdown.

Novak got to 6-2, 5-2... and then lost the 2nd and third sets 7-5, 6-4.

Had Novotna not won Wimbledon a few years later, I imagine that final against Steffi in the early 90s would have haunted her forever more.

A lot of matches listed above, all pertinent to the careers of both "combatants."

Rubin came back to win "that" match against Novotna. What's interesting is that Mandlikova wasn't known for her mental strength, but was the coach to Novotna, who ended up winning Wimbledon on 1998 V Tauziat. She had a good lead in 2nd set, which dissipated, but she "held on" to win the 2nd set TB and the title. So she DID annex her Major title and "redeem" herself from that 1993 final v Graf, where she led 4-1 with point for 5-1 but then lost.

Djokovic was down two match points, to Federer in successive US Opens, the latter in which Federer held DOUBLE match point - someone can always hit ONE shot in wonder but double down - well, Djokovic ended up winning both semifinals in those - lost one final, but won the other. Who knows had Roger won both of those, would he have won two more Majors? Woulda, shoulda, coulda?

Becker had match point v Muster in Monte Carlo final once, hit a 150mph 2nd serve, lost the point, and end his career without ever winning ANY Clay Court title.

The one I find most interesting of the above - Gasquet losing after holding MP 9 times v Kyrgios; had Gasquet won that match....who knows? Nadal takes out Gasquet, another match worth of confidence....had Nadal won that point for 2 sets to 1 set lead, match is over I think. But again, woulda, coulda, shoulda...

These scenarios lead to interesting "maybes," but history has been written - those shots did NOT got the other way, and so we have what we have. Makes the sport more interesting to have them, but doesn't change the results as are.

I think of all those listed in this thread, the McEnroe v Lendl was the "cake taker." McEnroe was playing sublime tennis and "had" Lendl, but let himself get taken away from his focus, and Lendl came back. HAD McEnroe won that, well, he went on to annex easily the Wimbledon and US crowns - the it was on to the grass at Melbourne, and who knows? Grand Slam - the real one, winning four Major titles in the calendar year - not calling EACH Major a Grand Slam - which is now done to "increase" the seeming value of each won. "Grand Slam" when used appropriately is the winning of the Four Majors of a certain discipline in the same calendar year - why it's become a term to describe each, individual Major now...?? Who knows....but it cheapens the "real" occasion, and perhaps makes the fans think more, I don't know....

Mac put that loss down to sunstroke. He took to wearing a bandana after that.

Lendl vs Chang is worth a mention too.  Chang's tactics got under Lendl's skin and he was unable to play to his usual level.

Great post monopoly.
I was looking at Wiki and there have been a few matches lost when a player held 7-9+ MPs. Had Gasquet took one of those MPs I still think Djokovic was on too good form in the final for Rafa to take the title. However, it's launched Kyrgios career for sure.

...and speaking of Kyrgios, this follow-on tweet by Nick after Wimbledon is amazing...just consider how fast he's risen by looking at these photos. There is also YT vids of him playing and carrying weight in 2009, it's nothing short of remarkable.

I would go Spanish guys

1]Almagro blowing 2 sets and 5-3 lead over Ferrer to lose in 5, given he has never beaten Ferrer before it was a great oppurtunity, he has also served for the match 3 times in the 4 set only to be broken down all the time   A great match to remember coz I bet on Ferrer to win when he was down 3-5 in the 3rd set, it was 35 odds and If I am right I bet like $40.

2]Among the big four I would say Rafa choking the 5th set in AO 2012 when up 4-2.

Strangely I see Federer's both matches against Djoko in USO semi's as kinda purposeful tanks, he made his statement and tanked it to avoid facing Rafa in the finals.

invisiblecoolers wrote:Strangely I see Federer's both matches against Djoko in USO semi's as kinda purposeful tanks, he made his statement and tanked it to avoid facing Rafa in the finals.

I don't think he's built that way    I actually think he would've beaten Rafa in 2011, he was playing well enough. That Almagro match was unbelievable to watch, talk about soul-destroying for him.

Can't think of any better than the Fed 2011 implosion, but Rafa at AO'12 is a reasonable shout, especially for him. I'd hesitate to apply the word 'choke' to a 6 hour match, but after he missed that easy DTL backhand put away, it all unraveled very quickly.

Fed vs Safin wasn't even close to a choke   MP was in the 4th set, and he lost the match 9-7 in the 5th. Very high quality match, that.

(Novak narrowly avoided one this Wimbledon, as did Rafa in 2008)

Falla v Federer W
Del Potro v Federer USO 2009
Novotna v Graf
Federer v Safin AO 05 (the failed tweener).
Federer v Monfils (5 MPs Paris).
Andujar v Nadal (failed MPs).
Kyrgios v Gasquet
Federer v Nadal Rome 06
Federer v Roddick W 2009

I think Gonzalez had like 8 match points against Delpo in 2009 Paris masters to win in straight sets. Delpo then won the tiebreak and gonzo promptly retired.

Nalbandian v Nadal IW 2009.

When you've lost a huge number of MPs it must really get to you, as tough as these guys are they're not immune to being mentally frazzled afterwards. Some never recover like Coria after being turned over by Nadal through 2004 (plus THAT French Open which must still haunt him) and especially that Rome 2005 match where Coria held a point for 4-0 in that fifth set but it wasn't to be. After Rome he got serving yips then effectively retired from the not too long later...that's the damage losing close matches can do. Careers in this sport can be built or dismantled by the very smallest of margins.

The missed drop shot to win the first set at RG 2011 in Federer v Nadal is one such point. These two have many such in their rivalry.

Federer Vs Nadal I would call Federer more unlucky than being choked, if one of those few points would have gone Federer way in

Rome 2006
FO 2006
Wimbledon 2008
FO 2011

The story could have been altogether different.

Same implies to Djoko 2007 USO finals, 2 sets lost on Tie breaker, it could have been altogether different Djoko had he got that one.

What would have been Fed's legacy had he gone down to either Haas, DelPo or that no name player in the FO 2009? would people would have still called him a GOAT?

Had Djoko not touched the net cord in 2012 FO, or had Fed not stopped in 2011 FO and had he gone on to win FO 2011 how different a player he would have been in 2014 FO finals?

Had Fed somehow managed the 5th set in Wimb 2014 how boosted he would have been and how deflated Djoko would have been?

Its all easy to say if and buts don't count and i agree with it but the matter of fact is that 1 if point could have changed the entire Tennis history, a simple example is had Fed won wimb 2008, he would have been 7 time consecutive Wimbledon champ end of 2009 and thats a big big stats, sadly he is now just a 5 time consecutive champion and its not an unique record now, also who knows how much that would have inspired him to go for 10 Wimbledon?

So in general I feel sorry for the close losers than calling them chokers, nobody wants to lose and to lose a close match is already an inflicted pain they find it difficult to overcome and it only add salt to wounds when we further embarrass them.

We could rather change the title or the article in a slight positive tone, how lucky the winner was to cross the finish line. Djoko would take that title for 2011 USO rather than Fed taking the title of imploding on it.

Novotna is a good shout. I mean, her serves were barely reaching the net. It was pretty awful. When she eventually won Wimbledon she did not do it by beating those nerves. Not at all. She did it because she had the harder match of I think Hingis in the semi final when she played really well and then a final against Tauziat. Again, Novotna badly bottled serving for the match before taking in on a tiebreak.

Lydian, I think you have Mal Washington the wrong way around, I believe it was Martin who was up about 5-1 in the 5th and lost about 10-8. I think it was around 96/97, the one year out of Sampras didn't win Wimbledon, a really big miss for Martin who never won a slam. Krajicek won it that year I believe.

I can't think of a really good one for the big 4, I mean Federer at the US, Djokovic net touch at the FO, Rafa missed pass at the AO were all key moments but it wasn't quite the spectacular fall apart afterwards it was more a hinge on a key point.

For Murray maybe his first slam finals, not turning up, and there was a shot hit long against nadal at Wimbledon a few years ago where his games did fall apart a bit afterwards actually, or at least the level went down.

In terms of giving away leads there are not many for the big 4 except Federer perhaps.

Good shout HB...that's the one!
I tend to agree Fed is more affected by these types of moments compared to the other big 3.

lydian wrote:I tend to agree Fed is more affected by these types of moments compared to the other big 3.

The fragile and eccentric genius.

Probably...he was well known for having panic tendencies in his youth...its nothing new.
Its all relative of course...and he's one of the best frontrunners the game has known.

Federer's always been mentally strong on his own serve (BP defence) and weak on the other guy's serve (BP conversion).

This happened against many players, but let's look at Federer-Nadal, let's look at the BP conversion matches played at slams during the very peak of their rivalry (07-09).

French Open 2007 Rafa 4 of 10 - 40% Roger 1 of 17 - 6%
Wimbledon 2007 Rafa 4 of 11 - 36% Roger 3 of 8 - 37.5%
French Open 2008 Rafa 8 of 17 - 47% Roger 1 of 4 - 25%
Wimbledon 2008 Rafa 4 of 13 - 31% Roger 1 of 13 - 8%
Aussie Open 2009 Rafa 7 of 16 - 44% Roger 6 of 19 - 32%

TOTAL Rafa 27 of 67 - 40% Roger 12 of 61 - 20%

Some points to note:
1. 40% vs 20% across 5 matches. That cannot be coincidence, and what else can explain it other than mental strength?
2. That series of matches goes 4-1 to Rafa however based on BP creation it is 2-2 (plus one draw).
3. A Federer that converts BPs as efficiently as Rafa would have won the FO by 2007, and the calendar year grand slam in that year and Wimbledon 08 for a historic 6 in a row (7 if we include the year after), and AO 2009.

That has been the tease of Federer in this rivalry. On talent and aggressive shot making, he looked to have Rafa, but just a small amount of mental fragility stopped him finishing him off. I do think Federer is strong mentally, more than the average player, probably a mental giant vs Verdasco or Gasquet or you or I. But at the very highest level a notch below Rafa and Djokovic.

Many negative things are said about the women's game but the one area where a female player can trump a male player is Sharapova's mental toughness. She went through a bad period (and still does on occasion) where she couldn't land a serve yet somehow won matches during that time. Yes, you could say her groundstrokes are better than everyone bar Serena and Azarenka but still, not having a serve to rely on must be pretty nerve wracking.

You're more likely to see mental weakness in the women's game, in my opinion you don't see in the men's game players barely able to get a serve in, or not turning u in GS finals to the extent they are losing embarassingly like 6-1 6-2.

Henman Bill wrote:You're more likely to see mental weakness in the women's game, in my opinion you don't see in the men's game players barely able to get a serve in, or not turning u in GS finals to the extent they are losing embarassingly like 6-1 6-2.

Of course. Just looking at Sharapova only, she's granite mentally. I've seen a fair few women break down on court greetin'. Even Serena is mentally weak. Azarenka is solid too though.

bit harsh on Serena don't see her as mentally weak although I dislike her for other reasons

unless you mean mentally weak on concentration, early round defeats and so on, she seems to have the stomach for the big moments when I watch her. which, admittedly, is not often

Serena has major confidence issues on occasion against lesser players but can batter Sharapova off the court in under an hour. It's completely bizarre. She's very susceptible to an implosion - the FO match v Razzano is an example of that. Cruising and then... gone. I wonder if it's a lack of belief in her body rather than her game.

Kevin Anderson - Toronto Masters QF v. Grigor Dimitrov Aug 2014

Faced with the prospect of a first Masters SF, Big Kev seemed well on his way to victory when he broke Dimi to love to take a 5-4 lead in the final set. Three competent points later saw him have two match points.

A huge serve set up an easy forehand put away but Anderson stuck it wide. Seemingly undeterred he struck another colossal serve which Grigor could only plop feebly up in the air and just over the net. With Dimitrov on his way to the net to shake hands, Kevin pulled one of the all-time most horrendous forehands pulling it from above the height of the net straight down. Two more horrible forehands later and he had gifted Grigor parity.

Credit to Kevin, he recovered to hold serve for 6-6 and got himself into another winning position at *5-4. However, cruel luck and nerves again struck. An ace was denied by an apparent touch on the tape which neither player heard. On the next point Grigor fell over and could only limp around. Sadly, Kevin's forehand again failed as an easy put away sailed long as Dimitrov tumbled in pain to the floor. 5-5 became 5-6 with another short range missed forehand.

Having been gifted his own matchpoint Grigor caught the forehand yips himself. However, at 6-7 serving Kevin decided enough was enough and ended the match with a double fault.

Will Kevin ever be able to recover from this loss? No doubt if he ever does again reach match point in a Masters QF he will be praying the ball doesn't float gently towards his forehand.

I know what you're thinking. If only this clip was available for viewing!

http://clips.tennistv.com/g/v/DOeUARUXNr3

Its not in the same category really, but Djokovic must have hurt after he lost the first set to Federer at USO 2007 final when serving 6-5, 40-0. Given he only lost 7-6, 7-6, 7-5 it might have been pivotal.

I remember that mainly because Dr_Sincere had his famous bout of Premature Speculation in declaring the Djokovic had won the set.

Oh yes the old PremSpec days, lol.

I watched the Anderson-Dimitrov match live last night and saw that clip, even re-ran it a few times. I still can't believe he missed an open goal, he hit that FH almost into the bottom of the net such was the dire nature of it. He mustn't have slept a wink last night...that could go on to haunt him if he doesn't do well in future Masters. Glad Dimi won though as Anderson is too serve dominated for my liking...and Dimi wasn't playing well last night tbh. Still, Dimi must have wondered who was looking over him last night...one of the worst misses I've ever seen on a tennis court, Anderson just had to roll into the opposite corner at junior speed to be in the semis today. Bizarre.