Anscombe, is this an admission?

With it increasingly looking like we are just giving out a Welsh cap to this Kiwi no questions asked,
is this an admission from Gatland that all our available 10's are crap?
Or does Gatland think this lad is the missing link of Wales becoming a world beating team?
Is he admitting 10 is a problem position?
Or does he just owe his Dad a favour?

Biggar is reportedly getting a CC to isn't he? I think the welsh half backs have been a relative weak link for a while.
Anscombe looks to have something different possibly but I get your 'tongue in cheek points'.

There is no way whatsoever should this guy just be given a CC, it stinnks of the old Howarth, JJ Hughes, Sinkinson era and is wrong.

If he keeps playing the way he did last weekend then I think he should stay in Auckland.

He qualifies and is better then any alternative.

He's been a first choice starter in SR for 2 years now, once when the team won the competition albeit at 15.

He's signed a contract to Cardiff right so he's coming. Better to show a sign of intent now and seal the deal rather than hope he changes his mind no?

Perhaps not moral but these are the rules upon the rugby public have agreed on. If he got snitched from under Gatlands nose I think we would hear similar grumbles that he wasn't decisive enough.

I quite like the look of anscombe, and not sure why people are against him going to Wales, maitland worked out for Scotland, as did Barrit for England.

I know there are a lot of Fluteys, Vainikolo's etc, but there are just as many success stories too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/10368933/Football-cricket-rugby-league-and-rugby-union-how-Englands-teams-compare-for-foreign-born-talent.html

Although if you want a real giggle read the poster half way down the page, George North qualifies to play for Wales through his mother lol, and also to question Ben morgan playing for England haha

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2268818/Six-Nations-2013-Martin-Corry-Imports-damage-Engliand-rugby.html

I think though Barritt took 4 years to get capped after joining.. he had to earn his stripes.

fa0019 wrote:I think though Barritt took 4 years  to get capped after joining.. he had to earn his stripes.

Not sure 4 years, playing pro sports, and earning stripes should be in the same sentence lol

OK lets use Flutey.

Neutralee wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I think though Barritt took 4 years  to get capped after joining.. he had to earn his stripes.

Not sure 4 years, playing pro sports, and earning stripes should be in the same sentence lol

OK lets use Flutey.

Joined Sarries in 2008, was first capped in 2012.

Flutey joined Wasps in 2005 and was first capped in 2008.

Neither received a central contract (if they ever did) or were members of the elite squad until they got capped. Can't see how its the same.

SO tell me, is Anscombe in Wales yet, or still in NZ?

still in NZ no BB? Coming at end of ITM cup competition no?

Will get his first cap on 8th Nov vs. AUS after maybe being in country for 1 month.

That is quite sad to be honest, I don't think I will ever get used to that idea.

I reckon it can only get worse, this grandma, grandpa, morre and farre thing is just a short cut being exploited.

But then I am a traditionalist which is in fact contradictory to the attitude I have towards this, as these guys have a generational link to the ancestory.

Still a short cut in my opinion though.

Maybe SA should start to offer scholarships to the Pacific Islands as well, we can do with some of that back line talent, eh?

Or just get government to build rugby fields all over Kwazulu Natal. The Zulu's are quite a physical specimen aren't they?

never thought Zulu's were that tall to be honest mate... always thought them to be on the short side. Jacob Zuma is very very small for instance although you would never know it from his usual press. Better to invade the moutainous regions of Kenya.

Yes, but I don't want forwards, I want backs

I wonder whether the Jamaicans would like rugby?

Those lot are FAST!!!

the last thing the world needs right.

They would make Habana look like census johnson.

world cup final 2099.... st lucia vs. St Kitts & Nevis, 10 years after picking up the sport seriously.

We need to keep rugby balls away from these chaps!

I just don't see the point of a central contract for Anscombe. Unless the Blues signed him on the sly with a promise of central contract for extra cash (which is a bit dodgy and risky) or the none centrally contracted players will be released less (which would be daft).

He's already signed so he's coming over. A new agreement would provide the required access (or should). So what is the point of the dual contract? Why not wait until his contract with the Blues expires and sort it out then? It makes no sense whatsoever (unless dodgy deals have been done between the Blues and the WRU)

maybe it was the sweetener which made the deal in the first place?

But there was no assurance that dual contracts would be available at the time. Unless it is a clause in his contract. Which would be the dodgy deals part.

The thing is... world class players in the Wales squad like Warburton, Faletau, North etc would have got into the NZ squad had they been kiwi's. They would have got caps.

Anscombe is way behind at the 10 pecking order... perhaps 4th or 5th in the list. You have to wonder how good a player he will be without the top players around him at the chiefs.

Nevertheless his first class debut was a dream (for the blues) .... record points score for an away player in the Versfeld.

fa0019 wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I think though Barritt took 4 years  to get capped after joining.. he had to earn his stripes.

Not sure 4 years, playing pro sports, and earning stripes should be in the same sentence lol

OK lets use Flutey.

Joined Sarries in 2008, was first capped in 2012.

Flutey joined Wasps in 2005 and was first capped in 2008.

Neither received a central contract (if they ever did) or were members of the elite squad until they got capped. Can't see how its the same.

I was making a more human point, as in 4 years doing something you love ie throwing a ball around a field hardly compares to 4 years service, and is pretty disrespectfull to any who served, especially during war time. But it was just a blase remark.

so do people who "genuinely" earn their stripes during peace time as lesser than those who do so in war time? What about those who don't serve in the front line during periods of war but get promotions?

Its a common phrase, to be honest dude you should get over it!

There was no disrespect meant and only someone looking for trouble would say so.

fa0019 wrote:so do people who  "genuinely" earn their stripes during peace time as lesser than those who do so in war time? What about those who don't serve in the front line during periods of war but get promotions?

Its a common phrase, to be honest dude you should get over it!

There was no disrespect meant and only someone looking for trouble would say so.

Hence why I called it a blase remark, maybe you shouldn't be so touchy?

HammerofThunor wrote:I just don't see the point of a central contract for Anscombe.  Unless the Blues signed him on the sly with a promise of central contract for extra cash (which is a bit dodgy and risky) or the none centrally contracted players will be released less (which would be daft).

He's already signed so he's coming over. A new agreement would provide the required access (or should).  So what is the point of the dual contract? Why not wait until his contract with the Blues expires and sort it out then? It makes no sense whatsoever (unless dodgy deals have been done between the Blues and the WRU)

I thought the regions had a legally binding agreement that stated no one would play a centrally contracted player, hence the Warburton fiasco?

Cardiff don't seem to be adversed to contraversy recently, with the Warburton mess, Jones signing from nowhere, a CC for a player who hasn't touched down yet, and they were pretty vocal in the whole euor mess too weren't they?

Is this down to the owner, or is it just a bit coincidental this has all happened at the same time?

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I thought the regions had a legally binding agreement that stated no one would play a centrally contracted player, hence the Warburton fiasco?

They do, and it would require them all agreeing to let it through. Hence when the Blues signing a player with the understanding they would get top up money from the the WRU when the RRW agreement was still active is a bit dodgy. More so given they have 4 players on these dual contracts, suggesting they're getting about £1M more than the Dragons (based on spectulation and rumour).

Neutralee wrote:

fa0019 wrote:so do people who  "genuinely" earn their stripes during peace time as lesser than those who do so in war time? What about those who don't serve in the front line during periods of war but get promotions?

Its a common phrase, to be honest dude you should get over it!

There was no disrespect meant and only someone looking for trouble would say so.

Hence why I called it a blase remark, maybe you shouldn't be so touchy?

wasn't the one who brought it up.

As has been spouted on these boards many times, his country of birth is irrelevant. His 'real' country is where his ancestors are from. I believe his mother is Welsh. Ergo he's Welsh, let him play.

ah so NZ is not a real country then given only the Maori's came from there longer than 300 years ago? How long do you ancestors need to have lived in a country before you can lay claim to it? From what I hear Anscombes mother being welsh is that she was born in Wales.... i.e. left for NZ when she was a kid, can't even remember her time there.

I bet he hasn't even set foot in Wales prior to any rugby tours he went on with the junior ABs etc.

But he qualifies so end of story.

fa, the rule is if you have any link to Wales, no matter how small, then you're Welsh. However, for all other countries you need to 100% 'pure'. Surely you've been on here long enough to know that?

HammerofThunor wrote:fa, the rule is if you have any link to Wales, no matter how small, then you're Welsh. However, for all other countries you need to 100% 'pure'. Surely you've been on here long enough to know that?

Hang on a minute... I watched Zulu when I was 10.............  oh s*** I'm a valley boy and I never even knew it!!!

Biltong wrote:Or just get government to build rugby fields all over Kwazulu Natal. The Zulu's are quite a physical specimen aren't they?

I don't understand why thats a bad thing. In fact it sounds like a really, really good idea

Notch wrote:

Biltong wrote:Or just get government to build rugby fields all over Kwazulu Natal. The Zulu's are quite a physical specimen aren't they?

I don't understand why thats a bad thing. In fact it sounds like a really, really good idea.

Other than the fact they're actually quite a small race of people and not known for their speed.

Although Chinese people are not meant to be tall but I would bet there are more chinese people of 6ft+ then in any country in the world so I don't see why not as well?

goneagain wrote:As has been spouted on these boards many times, his country of birth is irrelevant. His 'real' country is where his ancestors are from. I believe his mother is Welsh. Ergo he's Welsh, let him play.

Not really. There's a lot more to be added to the equation to determine one's "state of origin." I'm not too disheartened by this anyway, everyone does it so take advantage before the IRB/World rugby implement a stricter policy (which I think they need to do).

fa0019 wrote:ah so NZ is not a real country then given only the Maori's came from there longer than 300 years ago? How long do you ancestors need to have lived in a country before you can lay claim to it? From what I hear Anscombes mother being welsh is that she was born in Wales.... i.e. left for NZ when she was a kid, can't even remember her time there.

I bet he hasn't even set foot in Wales prior to any rugby tours he went on with the junior ABs etc.

But he qualifies so end of story.

A lot of rich comments being left by this supposed 'Scotland fan' on this thread. Remind us all of the Andy Robinson era when he went scouting the world for players because the team he coached were wooden spooners. I feel sorry for guys like Maitland, Heathcoat and Shingler. Their rugby careers ruined by the SRU.

Sorry Saint so because you're from England you cannot have an opinion because of Riki Flutey?

Scotland do sell out, more so than others. No objection there. Would I rather they don't.. well its not like the results could get any worse... but I do think collective pride would improve so yes, I would prefer it if we didn't. But I'm not a selector... and I acknowledge that the selectors are judged on results NOT on how many genuine indigneous players they play.

Maitlands career can hardly be said to have been ruined. He was a good SR player but never even got to the training squad of the ABs. Since he's toured with the lions and made a decent improved wage. Hardly ruined.

But call a spade a spade. Anscombe mum is welsh but as I said there is being welsh as in Jonathan Davies and being welsh as in Julia Gillard. There is a big difference regardless of birth as stated earlier.

fa0019 wrote:Sorry Saint so because you're from England you cannot have an opinion because of Riki Flutey?

Scotland do sell out, more so than others. No objection there. Would I rather they don't.. well its not like the results could get any worse... but I do think collective pride would improve so yes, I would prefer it if we didn't. But I'm not a selector... and I acknowledge that the selectors are judged on results NOT on how many genuine indigneous players they play.

Maitlands career can hardly be said to have been ruined. He was a good SR player but never even got to the training squad of the ABs. Since he's toured with the lions and made a decent improved wage. Hardly ruined.

But call a spade a spade. Anscombe mum is welsh but as I said there is being welsh as in Jonathan Davies and being welsh as in Julia Gillard. There is a big difference regardless of birth as stated earlier.

Not sure where you're coming from there, but I think I made my feelings clear on this issue and the residency rule.
And up to your old tricks again, claiming that Anscombe is better than anything we have available which is total BS, along with all that other stuff you just said. You always latch on to SA and criticise Wales, it's just rich coming from a Scotland fan as I stated.
Not so sure how Welsh his mother is. I'm sure that you aren't sure how welsh she is either.

If it was BS then tell me... In your opinion, how many players from Wales would get starting berths at the chiefs for the last 2 seasons?

And then think of your 10s/15s.

Gatland seems to rate him pretty highly. Funny that

I think Anscombe is basically a slightly better version of Dan Biggar. More versatile in that he can play fullback and runs good lines from that position, but yeah- most similar to Biggar. I think those two will push each other.

Is he better than what Wales already have? Well, maybe, but only slightly. There's Anscombe, there's Biggar and then there is a big, big drop off. So whether or not he does outshine Biggar you still need two good 10s really.

fa0019 wrote:If it was BS then tell me... In your opinion, how many players from Wales would get starting berths at the chiefs for the last 2 seasons?

And then think of your 10s/15s.

Gatland seems to rate him pretty highly. Funny that

Players you say, anyone in our matchday 23 would. 10's, Biggar (a bench option for them only I'd say), then obviously Halfpenny at 15, Liam Williams would be within a shout too. Though personally after that second test against SA I think he's gone down in the pecking order. They'd have a better chance at another franchise though, say one where there isn't the incumbent All Black fly-half. And going by the opinion of Kiwi's on this board, Anscombe is rather flaky in the 10 jersey. There's also Owen Williams. Neither he or Anscombe have been capped, so Mr genius, how do you know which one is better?

That's alright, Gatland rates a lot of players. He even rates Rhys Webb and Rhys Priestland... But like I said, I don't mind him scouting for the chiefs 10/15, as I think he would be a good addition to any Welsh team. If he is to be capped, then I hope it is earned rather than just for the sake of it.

The Saint wrote:

fa0019 wrote:If it was BS then tell me... In your opinion, how many players from Wales would get starting berths at the chiefs for the last 2 seasons?

And then think of your 10s/15s.

Gatland seems to rate him pretty highly. Funny that

Players you say, anyone in our matchday 23 would. 10's, Biggar (a bench option for them only I'd say), then obviously Halfpenny at 15, Liam Williams would be within a shout too. Though personally after that second test against SA I think he's gone down in the pecking order. They'd have a better chance at another franchise though, say one where there isn't the incumbent All Black fly-half. And going by the opinion of Kiwi's on this board, Anscombe is rather flaky in the 10 jersey. There's also Owen Williams. Neither he or Anscombe have been capped, so Mr genius, how do you know which one is better?

That's alright, Gatland rates a lot of players. He even rates Rhys Webb and Rhys Priestland... But like I said, I don't mind him scouting for the chiefs 10/15, as I think he would be a good addition to any Welsh team. If he is to be capped, then I hope it is earned rather than just for the sake of it.

Thats a bold statement given that Chiefs won the SR title in 2012, 2013 and were in the playoffs in 2014 with a clutch of ABs. Had the Chiefs played the ABs, Boks or AUS they would have taken scalps, they are a very good side.... funny that Wales haven't taken one in 5 years and 20 matches.

Anscombe isn't the best 10 in NZ. Cruden, Carter, Slade and Barrett are better... but they also happen to be better than most teams first choice 10s too. But that happens when you play 2 consecutive seasons at 15.... where he was a rather impressive convert from 10 when he moved from the blues. Hes a good player and for me better than what Wales have at the moment. If he was simply seen as potential than Gatland would never have centrally contracted him. He did so because he sees him as a crucial player.

fa0019 wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I think though Barritt took 4 years  to get capped after joining.. he had to earn his stripes.

Not sure 4 years, playing pro sports, and earning stripes should be in the same sentence lol

OK lets use Flutey.

Joined Sarries in 2008, was first capped in 2012.

Flutey joined Wasps in 2005 and was first capped in 2008.

Neither received a central contract (if they ever did) or were members of the elite squad until they got capped. Can't see how its the same.

Just to slightly correct the Flutey info. He started in England in 2005 with London Irish and joined Wasps for the 07/08 season. He was with Wasps for two years before briefly appearing for Brive. Then he returned to Wasps for another two years before moving to Japan.

You're right that he got capped by England in 2008, shortly after completing the three year residency criteria.

fa0019 wrote:He qualifies and is better then any alternative.

He is unproven, he hasn't played senior test rugby yet, so its hard to say if hes better than the alternatives.

Also the chiefs weren't the same when he was playing 10.

IronMike wrote:

fa0019 wrote:He qualifies and is better then any alternative.

He is unproven, he hasn't played senior test rugby yet, so its hard to say if hes better than the alternatives.

Also the chiefs weren't the same when he was playing 10.

Given the guy has hardly played any 10 since moving to Chiefs its a little harsh. When he did for a month this season I think he did ok. Its unfair to say well when Cruden was out, Anscombe came in and the Chiefs were far worse. They were a little shaky sure but they got some decent results but they were a little unsteady. Well sure, Cruden is the top 10 in the world at the moment so go figure.

Play any guy at 15 for 2 years solid and then instantly convert him to 10 and he will struggle... especially when he plays some of the best club teams in the world. When Michael Jordan left the bulls in the 90s for the first time, Scottie Pippen lead the team and they struggled... didn't mean it wasn't one of the best players in the league and any side in the NBA would have had him in there side.

Anscombe has played 2 seasons as a starter in a very competitive and successful Chiefs team. SR is the closest thing rugby has to test rugby and its at a very high standard... probably more so than many test teams themselves. He's a good player, and I do see him as the starting 10 for Wales come the RWC. But he is not the messiah of welsh rugby though and may even struggle to get going a) because he's only started playing 10 again in the ITM cup and b) because the type of game and players he plays with in NZ are far different to that in the UK and he will have to adapt.

To be honest let him come over on his contract with the Blues, and see how he goes. If he can make a mark at the Blues, then give him an international call up, and then if he plays well internationally give him a dual contract. However if he does not play well internationally (or even for the Blues) then leave him on a Blues contract (or a plane back to NZ).

Also I am not too sure the argument about him playing 15 and needing time to re-convert to 10 are really fair. Priestland was playing 15 for the Scarlets when he was playing his best at 10 for Wales (in the RWC and '12 6Ns).

fa0019 wrote:

The Saint wrote:

fa0019 wrote:If it was BS then tell me... In your opinion, how many players from Wales would get starting berths at the chiefs for the last 2 seasons?

And then think of your 10s/15s.

Gatland seems to rate him pretty highly. Funny that

Players you say, anyone in our matchday 23 would. 10's, Biggar (a bench option for them only I'd say), then obviously Halfpenny at 15, Liam Williams would be within a shout too. Though personally after that second test against SA I think he's gone down in the pecking order. They'd have a better chance at another franchise though, say one where there isn't the incumbent All Black fly-half. And going by the opinion of Kiwi's on this board, Anscombe is rather flaky in the 10 jersey. There's also Owen Williams. Neither he or Anscombe have been capped, so Mr genius, how do you know which one is better?

That's alright, Gatland rates a lot of players. He even rates Rhys Webb and Rhys Priestland... But like I said, I don't mind him scouting for the chiefs 10/15, as I think he would be a good addition to any Welsh team. If he is to be capped, then I hope it is earned rather than just for the sake of it.

Thats a bold statement given that Chiefs won the SR title in 2012, 2013 and were in the playoffs in 2014 with a clutch of ABs. Had the Chiefs played the ABs, Boks or AUS they would have taken scalps, they are a very good side.... funny that Wales haven't taken one in 5 years and 20 matches.

Anscombe isn't the best 10 in NZ. Cruden, Carter, Slade and Barrett are better... but they also happen to be better than most teams first choice 10s too. But that happens when you play 2 consecutive seasons at 15.... where he was a rather impressive convert from 10 when he moved from the blues. Hes a good player and for me better than what Wales have at the moment. If he was simply seen as potential than Gatland would never have centrally contracted him. He did so because he sees him as a crucial player.

Is it really, when you consider Wales won the 6 Nations in 2012.... and 2013 . We came 3rd in 2014, and had some good results as well as some bad ones. Here you go speculating again saying that Chiefs would beat the tri-nations, you're talking complete rubbish. Try and back up your points with facts next time, otherwise people will just see what you're really up to like I have. Hence you're on-going Wales digs.

Yeah, tell us something we don't know. Carter and Cruden are better than most 10s in the world rugby, I'm not too sure about Barrett, but he has proven to be one of the most effective and versatile impact subs. Slade is average and nowhere near their calibre. There's no doubting he (GA) will be a crucial player because he covers two positions that we don't have much experience in at the moment. To say he's the best we have just because Gatland wants to cap him is rubbish. Gatland also wanted to cap Andries Pretorious, and did so, when we had better available. Our coaches work in strange ways sometimes.

I think the way the chiefs have played over the last few seasons, had they faced a 3N side they certainly would have taken victories... including those over NZ. Yes, I stand by that. They may not have been regular but they would have taken victories and against SA and AUS it would have been 50/50 where you would expect them to win their home games etc.

Hound of Harrow wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I think though Barritt took 4 years  to get capped after joining.. he had to earn his stripes.

Not sure 4 years, playing pro sports, and earning stripes should be in the same sentence lol

OK lets use Flutey.

Joined Sarries in 2008, was first capped in 2012.

Flutey joined Wasps in 2005 and was first capped in 2008.

Neither received a central contract (if they ever did) or were members of the elite squad until they got capped. Can't see how its the same.

Just to slightly correct the Flutey info. He started in England in 2005 with London Irish and joined Wasps for the 07/08 season. He was with Wasps for two years before briefly appearing for Brive. Then he returned to Wasps for another two years before moving to Japan.

You're right that he got capped by England in 2008, shortly after completing the three year residency criteria.

Another slight correction, Flutey was in the England EPS (July) before he completed the residency qualification (September)