5 Young Englishmen to watch this season???

Do you agree??

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/england-countries/five-young-englishmen-watch-aviva-premiership/

These are all chaps really graduating through the England U20s - and hopefully they will follow through on their potential and deliver in senior rugby.

There are many others that are already playing senior rugby that are worth keeping an eye out for and can still be called young Englishmen -

Kyle Sinkler
Jack Clifford
Jack Nowell
Luke Cowan Dickie
Eliot Stooke
Charlie Walker
Waller (the Saints prop that covered for Corbis) - did an excellent job
Ant Watson
Charlie Matthews

Heck -
Marlan Yarde and Christian Wade are both young.

I would agree PDL,

Stooke was a big plus for Glos last season, Matthews seemed to grow for you guys and i thought Nowell looked good for England and should make a cracking FB this season.

Kibirige has been out injured and not had any pre season gametime...and with the Tuilagis, Sinoti, Cato etc his gametime this season will be managed so i wouldnt have put him in the list.

I agree that all are talents. Everyone is always going to be biased slightly more towards their own clubs and for me at Irish I am really excited to see what Tom Fowlie and Gerard Ellis can do. Ellis is the best ball-carrying hooker I can remember seeing and he appears to have sorted out his set-piece game.

From other clubs I am really excited by the following:

Ollie Devoto - He looks the most complete ball-playing inside centre since Greenwood, although obviously it is still early days. He possibly could do with trying to add a touch more pace, but he excites me far more than any of the other possible options at 12.

Maro Itoje - Whether he develops long term as a lock or a 6, he is supremely talented and already seems like a natural leader. Both positions are very congested but Itoje seems to have an athleticism that could make him stand out. It will be interesting to see how much time he gets with Saracens as he has also been dual registered at Bedford.

Tom Stephenson - Another centre, but Stephenson really impressed me last season. He has a low centre of gravity and seems deceptively difficult to put down. A potential contender looking ahead to 2019 for sure.

Maro Itoje - Whether he develops long term as a lock or a 6, he is supremely talented and already seems like a natural leader. Both positions are very congested but Itoje seems to have an athleticism that could make him stand out

I agree hes one to watch but i disagree that both positions are flooded. I think lock is but 6 is wide open with few genuine candidates...certainly not one as big, powerful and yet mobile as him. He could make that Sarries and England spot his own for years to come...a big brute of a 6...our very own Kaino...

Itoje has a lot of potential but looks to me like he will need a season or two to get the hang of using his size effectively.

Of the U20s, I was very impressed by Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi in the forwards, and Burns / Sloan / Tompkins in the backs. I'd expect the latter two to make an impact this season.

I think the article is probably right to focus on players who have had a season or so of senior rugby - though I was slightly surprised to see Trayfoot on the list. He's one of those players who plays consistently well without hogging the limelight, and he will have plenty of chances to make a mark this season but it's too early to know whether he has star quality.

My (biased) money is on Kyle Sinckler. My unbiased money is on Henry Slade - very impressed by what I saw against the BaaBaas. Looks to combine Farrell's toughness with some of Burns's flair. If he can put a consistent run together, he could shake things up a bit.

Yea, fair enough GF - I actually do agree that there is a lot more competition at lock than at 6. However, Wood, Haskell and Croft are fairly deeply engrained in SL's selection thoughts so it may take a fairly long time for Itoje to come through at international level.

Yeah thats probably the 3 in Lancasters mind....im not a fan of Croft at all so he wouldnt be in there.

Garvey doesnt seem to be in the equation...Fearns doesnt know what position he is...Johnson is a very good Premiership player not an international etc etc
If Itoje can flourish in that spot with Sarries he could be great. Big IF as not all kids with potnetial make it.

As for Lock....scary
Slater, Parling, Lawes, Launchbury, Kitchener, Attwood, Kruis, Barrow, Stooke, Matthews with others like Leiceters lot coming through after that.

There are a lot of young English players to keep tabs on at the moment, it will be really interesting to see who kicks on to the highest levels.

From my biased point of view I am looking forward to seeing how Watson and Devoto progress in the Bath backs and how Spencer and Sisi go in the forwards.

Elsewhere I'm looking forward to seeing Nowell as no.1 FB at Exe, whether Waller can keep progressing.. in fact too many to list!

.. in fact too many to list!

Your right bathman...so many youngsters coming through...but how many will fulfill their potential and reach that world class or top class international level....?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Maro Itoje - Whether he develops long term as a lock or a 6, he is supremely talented and already seems like a natural leader. Both positions are very congested but Itoje seems to have an athleticism that could make him stand out

I agree hes one to watch but i disagree that both positions are flooded. I think lock is but 6 is wide open with few genuine candidates...certainly not one as big, powerful and yet mobile as him. He could make that Sarries and England spot his own for years to come...a big brute of a 6...our very own Kaino...

 Depends on Burgess's move to union goes. and where he plays.

Well yes that could be true...but its not guarenteed that Burgess will be a huge success either...

hence the "Depends"

 

 although because of your views on Croft I can't take any of your thoughts seriously.

Yes depends ...quite right.

We're all entitled to our opinons Welly.

I respect what Croft offers...and how he is used by Tigers...but he is not the type of 6 i like to see in my pack. Personal preferance.

IF Burgess does make the transition firstly into union and secondly into the back row, he's more likely to be an 8 than a 6. I'd be very surprised if he can develop the breakdown skills to play 6 internationally (though I could see him playing 6/8 for club and 8 for country).

Agree Poorfour - I'm surprised more people havent mentioned Burgess as a No.8!
He'd be a very effective ball carrier and the only other specialism that would need to be groomed would be control at the base of the Scrum. A bit of linout lifting - Bath have plenty of other lineout options (jumpers) in Day, Attwood, Fearns etc.
So, with out the need to master the breakdown skills required of a 6 and 7 he could do very well there.
Why are people so keen on turning him into a 6.

Burgess is still only 25 - so by no means over the hill, and could still be a young englishman to watch.

propdavid_london wrote:Agree Poorfour - I'm surprised more people havent mentioned Burgess as a No.8!
He'd be a very effective ball carrier and the only other specialism that would need to be groomed would be control at the base of the Scrum.  A bit of linout lifting - Bath have plenty of other lineout options (jumpers) in Day, Attwood, Fearns etc.
So, with out the need to master the breakdown skills required of a 6 and 7 he could do very well there.  
Why are people so keen on turning him into a 6.

Burgess is still only 25 - so by no means over the hill, and could still be a young englishman to watch.

He could be, but then he is an old man compared to Billy and the same age as Ben Morgan. He might end up better than both but achieving that will be quite a challenge

I'd agree about Burgess at no.8, he looks tailor made for the position from a physical point of view.

The five are interesting choices, although I think Thacker and Tompkins will struggle to get a lot of game time. Thacker has got to get past some players to get a game, although opportunities may open up in the internationals windows. The same could be said about Tompkins. Trayfoot is a player I kept an eye on (without ever seeing him play) for a long time because I saw his stats as a youngster three- four years ago. The limited times I have actually seen him, he has looked a little slow and lumbering. I hope Quins fans can contradict me though.

Ollie Devoto- if he doesn’t get pushed behind Sam Burgess. He really reminds me of young Will Greenwood (one of my favourite players).

I’d agree with Gerard Ellis, he looks brutal with the ball in his hand, although I have a nagging worry that he’ll opt to play for Wales.

Henry Slade- It will be interesting to see if he can kick on and take the first choice 10 role.

I agree that all 5 are worth watching

Cumbrian i just wonder about Thackers size.

He's only 90kg and not particularly tall. At least Tom Youngs is built like a tank. I just see him struggling at senior level.
But Tigers know what they're doing better than me so who knows.

I also think young Tompkins could get quite a bit of rugby with Sarries this season. He looks a serious prospect at 13 (though i did say that about Elliot Daly aswell) and with them fighting on two fronts (Prem and Euros) they'll need to use their squad wisely...

One serious question: are there genuine England prospects for anyone playing 13 whose name is not an anagram of I unlag Maui T? He's a unique specimen, he's barely older than most of the contenders, and he has a credible existing replacement in Burrell.

At the moment it doesn't seem likely that Manu will get the chance to evolve his game to play 12, and the universal view seems to be that playing him on the wing didn't work (personally, I think it's worth persisting with, but I'm in a minority of about 1).

I can't see the likes of Tompkins and Lowe (reportedly "like a new player" after his injury lay off, and still only 24) displacing Manu, barring a real injury crisis.

Poorfour, I think the answer is no. Manu is a pretty big part of the England game plan and any other player in the 13 shirt will require a change of tactics. I mean I really like Lowe, but he is not going to offer the guaranteed yards that Manu does, so another back will have to take up that mantle (Barritt back at 12 maybe?).

Having said all of that I think Burrell could do a good job for England at 13, but he is Manu-lite in many ways.

Poorfour wrote:One serious question: are there genuine England prospects for anyone playing 13 whose name is not an anagram of I unlag Maui T? He's a unique specimen, he's barely older than most of the contenders, and he has a credible existing replacement in Burrell.

At the moment it doesn't seem likely that Manu will get the chance to evolve his game to play 12, and the universal view seems to be that playing him on the wing didn't work (personally, I think it's worth persisting with, but I'm in a minority of about 1).

I can't see the likes of Tompkins and Lowe (reportedly "like a new player" after his injury lay off, and still only 24) displacing Manu, barring a real injury crisis.

Yes a very likely situation which does make things tough for out and out 13's with big ambitions. Burrell did very well in the 6N. However I wouldnt be surprised if , given the type of player he is, Manu either just gets injured on a regular basis, or starts picking up specific injuries which slow him down. Cant see that much difference between a slow Manu and a late era Tindall

On the other hand he still has plenty of time to develop his all round game.

Will Sam Hill get much gametime with Exeter this season at 12?

Devoto is the new god on 606v2...but he wont replace Twelvetrees in the England starting lineup just yet.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Will Sam Hill get much gametime with Exeter this season at 12?

Devoto is the new god on 606v2 ...but he wont replace Twelvetrees in the England starting lineup just yet.

Is it time to start writing his name reverently like DEVOTO!!! yet?

I know what you mean though, he's a long way off troubling the England team at the moment, but he definitely has something about him.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Will Sam Hill get much gametime with Exeter this season at 12?

Devoto is the new god on 606v2...but he wont replace Twelvetrees in the England starting lineup just yet.

Sam was pretty much first choice 12 last season, (missed a fair few games through injuries) so I'm expecting to see him starting regularly, particularly as Exe don't have great depth in the centres. Slade played 12 a couple of times last season when Hill was injured, and was tried at 13 (outside Hill) in last Friday's pre-season game. Nowell could well be drafted in at 13 if injuries bite, which could turn out to be his best position now that he is showing signs of getting over his passing phobia.

I agree about Devoto - wasn't impressed with what little I saw of him at 10/15 in U20's and LV/A games previously, but he was a revelation at centre last season.

For all the talk of Tompkins, Devoto and Hill - I still think Tom Stephenson is the best young centre out there.


As to Manu's development (and remember still only 23) there were promising signs on Friday. He was involved in both tries with a grubber kick for Barbieri to score and a neat offload to goneva who then passed inside to Youngs. He showed a range of passing - though I must admit that one effort off his left hand was in front of Morris (dummy runner or intended receiver - not sure) and behind Scully.

Cumbrian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Will Sam Hill get much gametime with Exeter this season at 12?

Devoto is the new god on 606v2 ...but he wont replace Twelvetrees in the England starting lineup just yet.

Is it time to start writing his name reverently like DEVOTO!!! yet?

I know what you mean though, he's a long way off troubling the England team at the moment, but he definitely has something about him.

Does that make you a Devotee, Cumbrian?

If you want one to keep an eye on, I shall put forward Gerard Ellis.  This kid has the potential to be a world class hooker.

Poorfour wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Will Sam Hill get much gametime with Exeter this season at 12?

Devoto is the new god on 606v2 ...but he wont replace Twelvetrees in the England starting lineup just yet.

Is it time to start writing his name reverently like DEVOTO!!! yet?

I know what you mean though, he's a long way off troubling the England team at the moment, but he definitely has something about him.

Does that make you a Devotee, Cumbrian?

Very good.

Fraser Balmain, 22. 20 stone prop plays both sides and will have to step up with early season injuries. Showed plenty of improvement last season and he has a great engine.

Freddie Burns, 23. Mecurial flyhalf now at a club where he'll be expected to make the sensible calls and run the game. He'll certainly get the platform. On his day he's magical.

Tim Streather 24. Sarries OC. Looked good when he got the game time last season. Scored a hat full at Nottingham previously. Should get more chances this year and has the power and the pace to make it count.

Kyle Sinckler 21. A unit, mobile and not a push over at the scrum. The moder day tighthead.

George Ford 21. Former junior player of the year. Fantastic midfield general. Needs to show he can kick consistently and tackle the big boys. His development has been on a steady up for some time. Could be the RWC bolter that springs the biggest surprise.

Heat is on George Ford big style this year , 4 fly halfs fighting for a spot in the world cup and at the moment for me he's behind Farrell , Burns and Cipriani. 

Mind you Henry Slade has been the best 10 performance i'v seen at Kingston Park over the last few years. Real brain on him and kicks some great territory

The only thing letting Ford down is his place kicking. It's a big negative especially at international but the rest of his game is top notch for me.

Poorfour wrote:One serious question: are there genuine England prospects for anyone playing 13 whose name is not an anagram of I unlag Maui T? He's a unique specimen, he's barely older than most of the contenders, and he has a credible existing replacement in Burrell.

At the moment it doesn't seem likely that Manu will get the chance to evolve his game to play 12, and the universal view seems to be that playing him on the wing didn't work (personally, I think it's worth persisting with, but I'm in a minority of about 1).

I can't see the likes of Tompkins and Lowe (reportedly "like a new player" after his injury lay off, and still only 24) displacing Manu, barring a real injury crisis.

Actually, maybe a minority of 2? I'm not convinced by him on the wing, but I wish he'd been kept there. I still think he needs to dramatically improve his awareness and distribution to be a really top 13. We know he's physically ridiculous, but we need more than that in the centres, we need creativity, good running lines, good hands and a kicking game.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah thats probably the 3 in Lancasters mind....im not a fan of Croft at all so he wouldnt be in there.

Garvey doesnt seem to be in the equation...Fearns doesnt know what position he is...Johnson is a very good Premiership player not an international etc etc
If Itoje can flourish in that spot with Sarries he could be great. Big IF as not all kids with potnetial make it.

As for Lock....scary
Slater, Parling, Lawes, Launchbury, Kitchener, Attwood, Kruis, Barrow, Stooke, Matthews with others like Leiceters lot coming through after that.

I still think I'd lose half of those locks for a young Simon Shaw type Geordie. Loads of potential and hopefully one or two come good, but probably no real bruiser right?

Simon Shaws are one in a million Hood...but i totally agree. He would be first choice if he was in his prime...and be perfect alongside Lawes or Launchbury

Can i also say keep a check on young Hammersley our FB. He has been round the scene a few years in the academy but just finished his uni studies at Durham and played all preseason games...and aside from Socino has been one of the highlights. Alex Tait was our Fb last season and one of the players of the season...but he may not get back in the side.

Mind you, when Shaw was in his prime he was 4th choice behind Johnson, Kay and Grewcock...

But I agree, while those are all big 18st blokes its hard to pick out a hard as nails, drags the team over the finish line type of player. Maybe the game has just changed in that way and pace/power has replaced the real bruisers?

Slater is a bruiser and Attwood is hardly a softy. Wells at Tigers is a pretty physical unit and the bean pole Price is quickly filling out. He is Shaw size in height and could have the frame.

Sam, would you start Slater over Lawes or Launchbury who would appear to be the favoured starting locks?

I wouldnt mind seeing Slater on the bench instead of Attwood, and then we can go from there. Form and fitness have to be the deciding factor - Launchbury was fantastic in the 6N and lacklustre in NZ.

I agree about start of from the bench, I feel he would add the most impact.

 But then after NZ who do you chose between Launch, Lawes or Parling to start.

 IMO I would have Attwood behind Slater, mainly because as a impact sub Slater brings more IMO.

I'd start Launchbury and Parling. Lawes from the bench adds a instant impact.

Is Kitchener not even in the rekoning?

Still think next season will be his time to fully shine and fully establish himself as a starter for England and Leicester.

He certainly seems to be a good lineout operator, excellent pace too. But, he will still have to go some to break up the Lawes-Launchbury combination. Its great having so many options - but we still dont know if a lot of these options can step up to international.

Kitchener Is an awful lot bigger than most people realise. Met him at a game when he was injured last season and he is huge. Cockers have an interview where he gave Kitchener's weight as about 19 stone. He needs a big year to displace Parling for club and country though.

How old is Kitchener now?

According to wiki he is 6'6'' 19st 1 and 24 years old

He's a big boy...a bigger stronger Parling?

I'm pleased to see Jack Clifford starting to get more gametime with Quins.
Kyle Sinkler dispite his yellow card did very well at scrum time against Tom Court - Scrum noticably struggled when he was substituted.
Marland Yarde looks threatening with the ball and had some nice touches.

Wade looks sharp for Wasps, which is hopeful.
Nowell and Cowan-Dickie are both injured still
Watson also looks to be in good form along with Sam Hill from Exceter.

The young guns have started the new season with a bang - lets hope that it continues.