Who Died?

Yesterday there were 2 major test matches apart from the match reports this board has hardly commented on them
both in difficult conditions were in different ways very good.
Aus v SA was a contrast in styles both sides without several injured players both sides would have played differently
in dry conditions.Habana yellow was borderline player hit went down like he was shot.
Aus went to bench very late and the high tempo game paid off against 14 men first time this year they made a
yellow card count.On reflection a draw would have been a fair result BUT the simple act of failing to kick the
ball off the park cost the match[Stephen Donald rerun}
Nz v Argentina a try was disallowed by ref but Savea was impeded and a possible penalty try disallowed it
wouldn't have changed the result bit made the scoreline better.
Barrett had a bad day with the boot and looked be carrying a leg injury in last 2 tests,Argentina tactic
of feeding but not hooking in the Scrums earned them penalties.BUT cost penalties/freekicks too plus
a strike against the head.
With there 10/12 a quick heel to allow front foot ball to run or drop at goal more sensible they played
a very shrewd game and deserved a closer result.

think there is at most only 3-4 of us who follow the boks on here. About 10 kiwis and 1-2 Aussies so no real surprise.

Wait till Bismarck/Eben gets carded next week... then I'm sure we'll see some action on here.

It was opening day of the Prem...always going to dominate initially.

As Geordie said the NH season has begun so we're mainly concentrating on that.

Given that the RC has already pretty much been decided it's not quite got the same zing.

Cyril wrote:As Geordie said the NH season has begun so we're mainly concentrating on that.

Given that the RC has already pretty much been decided it's not quite got the same zing.

Had the boks held on it would have gone down to the final match again but this time SA would have only had to win to win the trophy rather than get a bonus point and deny NZ a losing point... its a big diff mentally.

Now however SA have to win in NZ to turn the tables once again. Can they do it.... I think this team was unlucky to lose to AUS, very unlucky but I think its too far for them.

They would need a fully strength side out and probably have 8 first team injuries which means its a bridge too far. Those with the shirts at the moment are not necessarily bad players but they are not playing to form and that is the bare minimum requirement to be competitive in NZ.

You can only watch so much rugby as you try to get through a busy life of work, eating and sleep - oh and also deperately trying to catch the last weak rays of a dying Autumnal sun before our long dark Winter nights set in....

Caught the second half of Aus-SA, was a good ending!

You lot will have to get over this annoying habit of playing on a Saturday morning when a man has earned his hangover sleep

The Championship is boring and meaningless.

No really it is!

Scrumpy wrote:The Championship is boring and meaningless.

No really it is!

sort of the same as saying

"yeah I hate watching premiership football. I'd prefer the vauxhall conference any day".  

In the end I doubt a NH fans will care that much for SH rugby... as much as SH fans care for NH rugby. For any kids trying to learn the game though, its the rugby to watch though.

fa0019 wrote:
In the end I doubt a NH fans will care that much for SH rugby... as much as SH fans care for NH rugby. For any kids trying to learn the game though, its the rugby to watch though.

Try telling that to the NH kids. They've watched SH stuff now for decades and they still insist on playing Scrum'o'boxkick themselves.

fa0019 wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:The Championship is boring and meaningless.

No really it is!

sort of the same as saying

"yeah I hate watching premiership football. I'd prefer the vauxhall conference any day".  

If your team plays in the VC then yeah.

The Championship does nothing for me, just a bunch of meaningless games played at a silly time of the day.

I got up especially to watch the All Blacks game (yes I know it was on at 8:30 but that is up early for me on a Saturday if I don't need to get up). Then watched the Australia game. To be honest I wasn't that interested and had it on in the background. I've begun to really struggle to get interested in any of it unless I have some sort of emotional attachment to one of the teams involved.

Given that this is a mainly UK and Ireland based forum, why is it surprising that there isn't much comment on games that involve none of our teams? If I went on a New Zealand forum would there be loads of threads (other than match day ones) for the 6 Nations? If so you guys need to get a life, it's often boring for those of us that care

I think this weekend being so quiet has been effected by the NH season starting, but to be honest it was probably a reflection on the performances too.

As much as I enjoyed the Aus v SA game it wasn't high quality to watch, it built throughout but the conditions must have been far worse than they looked to have been such a scrappy and ultimately poor game.

I struggle to watch NZ play at home, games are just too much of a conclusion before kick off, and if I'm being totally honest I only really enjoy watching NZ play SA or England away too, for the same reasons. It's one of the problem of being dominant, ye everyone loves a winner, but nobody cares to watch the games of teams who just don't lose, especially when you don't have a horse in the race!

Roll on the AI's and 6Nations

Scrumpy wrote:Roll on the AI's and 6Nations

I generally prefer the 6N at present as there is a different winner every year, noone can dominate. However individual games of the RC are much higher quality, I tend to avoid England going to Scotland, thats always boring, and games where Scotland play Italy.

The weather has been pretty bad thus far

rain impacted the AUS vs. NZ, SA vs. ARG and AUS vs. SA matches.

Turnout wasn't great either which is a worry. The ARG match in Pretoria was half empty as was the latest AUS vs. SA match in Perth.

Frankly if I were the unions I would simply say this... look if you want to host a match, it better sell out... if not we have loads of stadiums who would die for the matches.

Matches tend to be spread between Ellis Park, Soweto, Kings Park, the Versfeld, Bloemfontein & Newlands.... quite simply if you don't achieve 85% fill rate for a RC match then you will have to make do with a summer test until either a) your figures improve or b) someone else drops below you.

In Newlands the boks could play Niger and they would get a sell out.

For the Versfeld to not to even sell 30,000 tickets its a bad show. Weather aside if you buy a ticket you go so its not like you can blame that. Argentina or not, they are a good side so enjoy the rugby.

Neutralee wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Roll on the AI's and 6Nations

I generally prefer the 6N at present as there is a different winner every year, noone can dominate. However individual games of the RC are much higher quality, I tend to avoid England going to Scotland, thats always boring, and games where Scotland play Italy.

Really?

I think that is a myth created by SH fans.

Scrumpy wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Roll on the AI's and 6Nations

I generally prefer the 6N at present as there is a different winner every year, noone can dominate. However individual games of the RC are much higher quality, I tend to avoid England going to Scotland, thats always boring, and games where Scotland play Italy.

Really?

I think that is a myth created by SH fans.

So the NH play better rugby? Interesting view. Got any evidence to support this?

Lets take a point since 2009, last 5 and a bit years where the 3N sides have played the 6N + Lions.

Matches 98.
Wins 81.
Losses 15.
Draws 2.

Scored 283 tries (2.89 per match).
Conceded 115 (1.17 per match).

Seems to me that the 3N sides are vastly superior and score far more tries. Perhaps you were saying that the 6N was more entertaining than the RC though. Ok lets look at that then over the same 5 years period.

6N championships. 6 seasons, 90 games, 299 tries (3.32 per game).
3N & RC. 5.5 seasons, 54 games, 237 tries (4.02 per game).

So what are we left with... the party atmosphere at Twickenham, Aviva etc???

So entertainment = tries? That simple is it?

SH rugby is what died, never seen such boring rugby ooze from the apparent rugby trend-setters. Maybe I'm being harsh but, maybe it's because I don't have an affiliation to any of the teams, but starting to lose interest in the SH teams unless their facing a NH opponent. I can't even watch the S15 any more, I used to love it.

People are free to watch whatever games they like and are free to comment on the games they like. If they don't want to watch the RC or the S15 I frankly couldn't give a flying ruck. I'll watch the 6N matches but I never watch any NH club rugby. I won't comment on the latter for that reason.

However, as a Kiwi who lives in Europe, I will get up to watch all the NZ international games. I will watch a lot of S15 rugby. I have a vested interest. I will be champing at the bit this Saturday for NZ's greatest rivalry.

Ignore it all you like, but dismissing it as boring or inconsequential is absurd and petty. Not all the games are of high quality but when they're good you'd be hard pressed to find a more compelling game. Compare NZ vs SA at Ellis Park or Eden Park to anything offered up in the 6N last year. There were high quality performances like Ireland's vs Wales, England Ireland was intriguing but could any of them hold a flame to the intensity and execution of those two matches?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:People are free to watch whatever games they like and are free to comment on the games they like. If they don't want to watch the RC or the S15 I frankly couldn't give a flying ruck. I'll watch the 6N matches but I never watch any NH club rugby. I won't comment on the latter for that reason.

However, as a Kiwi who lives in Europe, I will get up to watch all the NZ international games. I will watch a lot of S15 rugby. I have a vested interest. I will be champing at the bit this Saturday for NZ's greatest rivalry.

Ignore it all you like, but dismissing it as boring or inconsequential is absurd and petty. Not all the games are of high quality but when they're good you'd be hard pressed to find a more compelling game. Compare NZ vs SA at Ellis Park or Eden Park to anything offered up in the 6N last year. There were high quality performances like Ireland's vs Wales, England Ireland was intriguing but could any of them hold a flame to the intensity and execution of those two matches?

touche

This weekend was boring, as was SA vs Argentina. They're usually all pretty good. I'm not saying I won't be up early to watch again, I will be.

I'm not saying NH games aren't boring. I avoid Scotland vs Italy and Scotland vs England like the plague. And usually avoid all autumn games where Italy and Argentina are involved, unless Wales are facing them.

I watched the two internationals and as much of the opening Saturday of the Aviva as I could.

There just wasn't much to say about the first two games. Argentina were robbed of a try by the referee in a ludicrous way but I have a hard time thinking it was the difference between winning and losing.

I'm happy to read knowledgeable posters tell me about how combinations went on the day but I don't have any insights of my own to add.

The Australia v Boks game was dire to watch. Worse, the result was clearly affected by a dud yellow card to Habana. Sure, Steyn should have kicked the ball out, but I strongly suspect the Boks would have won that if they'd hadn't been forced to play with a man down at a key moment.

For that reason, it's hard to say whether Link is vindicated or that the Boks are broken, or whatever snap judgement I'm supposed to make.

I'll keep watching the games but my interest is higher than usual because England will be facing these teams fairly soon, and we'll probably need to beat two of them at the World Cup to have a chance, so I'd like to know how they are going.

Everyone has an opinion and understandably may not be interested in the top 3 sides in the world play each other.BUT with the RWC only a few months away thought there would be
some peripheral interest.
When you consider that the 3 of teams concernd had something like up to 8 first
choice players missing each.Playing in difficult conditions the games were far from
boring.When you see a 4 th choice 10 starting in appalling conditions against one of the
best spoiling teams in the game produce a master class[goalkicking aside]

Your standards a very high yes the ABs were always going to win but 4 tries in the
RC context may decide the championship this year.BUT it was by no stretch of
the imagination easy.Given the conditions the skill sets were high.
The second game looked to have been decided by the debatable yellow card
BUT quarter of the game to go the bench may have been used earlier and Boks
struggled to match the tempo.
Both SA and Argentina used the scrum to milk penalties a favourite NH trick NZ
used it to create quick ball to attack.
The NH/SH standards bit goes on and on given the numbers of SH players joining
NH they must have something desired by NH.

Not sure having good scrums/forwards is a trick though. I think players go or stay north for the money. If the money was in Aus they d go there.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Ignore it all you like, but dismissing it as boring or inconsequential is absurd and petty. Not all the games are of high quality but when they're good you'd be hard pressed to find a more compelling game. Compare NZ vs SA at Ellis Park or Eden Park to anything offered up in the 6N last year. There were high quality performances like Ireland's vs Wales, England Ireland was intriguing but could any of them hold a flame to the intensity and execution of those two matches?

What someone finds boring is a personal opinion. If you don't like the fact some people are bored by some All Black games, enough to call it petty and absurd, then I think we have to give up our Crown of Arrogance (currently held in the Tower of London, rumoured to be a fake as the real one was stolen).

EDIT:

I watched both test matches and several NH games on the weekend. The most boring by far was seeing London Welsh thumped, a try fest but no contest. Saints v Gloucester and Sarries v Wasps were very entertaining.

The SH tests were also far from boring. There were some iffy decisions, particularly the one that denied Argentina a try and Habana's yellow. Aussies got out of jail. NZ still look head and shoulders better particularly when they just go through the basics and keep their discipline. Looking forward to the SA v NZ games.

HammerofThunor wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Ignore it all you like, but dismissing it as boring or inconsequential is absurd and petty. Not all the games are of high quality but when they're good you'd be hard pressed to find a more compelling game. Compare NZ vs SA at Ellis Park or Eden Park to anything offered up in the 6N last year. There were high quality performances like Ireland's vs Wales, England Ireland was intriguing but could any of them hold a flame to the intensity and execution of those two matches?

What someone finds boring is a personal opinion. If you don't like the fact some people are bored by some All Black games, enough to call it petty and absurd, then I think we have to give up our Crown of Arrogance (currently held in the Tower of London, rumoured to be a fake as the real one was stolen).

EDIT:

I'm referring to Scrumpy's post that labelled the RC boring and meaningless and The Saint's claim that SH has died. I have no problem if you find some games boring. I couldn't watch any more of Australia vs Argentina last year in Perth just like I couldn't see any more of England vs Scotland this year (for different reasons). Like I said in my post, there are some boring games and some more captivating ones in both the RC and 6N. I stand by my claim that to call ALL of the RC matches boring is absurd and petty so if that makes me arrogant in your eyes then so be it.

Well yes. I find the competition to be boring and up interesting to me. Nothing to do with quality, I just have little interest in it. I'm sure if I watched all the games I may get engaged with them, but I generally don't bother.

But there is a difference between me saying I find them boring and saying the competition is intrinsically boring. Anyone who says that is absurd and petty. But they would be if they said the same about the T14, AP, Pro12, English Division 3 North, or whatever.

You miss my point I DID`NT say having a good Scrum or Forwards,OR playing in a certain
style is WRONG or BORING.BUT that rather than to just try to milk penalties using tactics
[often illegal like boring in or dropping a shoulder,diving in].
Would be better served using a fast heel to give there backs front foot ball any match can
be boring at ANY level or Hemisphere.
Believe me in my 60 odd of years of watching I`ve seen and even enjoyed some really
turgid matches.

Well if you have a strong set piece play to your strengths that's all.

Great game from NZ and SA as always, the next one though not so good. The stadium looked empty... so as predicted, is RU and Aus beginning a steep decline?

ARL and NRL finals were happening at the same time. From what I hear the marketing was poor and the ticket prices were at the high end.

If it's a Bledisloe, you could easily sell out that 30K stadium but that's why the ARU chose Sydney for the first Bledisloe match to maximise the gate take. However, there are not many Argentinian expats I imagine, not to mention the Gold Coast, much like Perth, is not a rugby stronghold so you can't rely on the local population to turn up. You need to market the game well and make it affordable for people to turn up with not much knowledge of the game.