PGA Tour: Who'll be Leaving Las Vegas with a Win?: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Sang Moon Bae left Silverado with the win, heading what was an international leaderboard . . . . after Americans winning the first dozen or so tournaments last season.
Bae enjoyed his first Top Ten finish since his Byron Nelson win in 2013.
And he wasn't the only one with a bolt from the blue:

2).Bowditch was runner up, his first Top Ten since his April win in Texas.
And, apart from Mahan and Matsuyama, the entire Top Ten and ties earned their best finish of 2014.

3).That includes Martin Laird who tied for 3rd after leading after 36 holes. That's his best since Texas in 2013 and he'll go to Las Vegas in decent form and looking forward to an event he has won once, and lost to Byrd's hole-in-one play-off win four years ago.
The first half of Laird's year was all about his new son and he missed out on FedEx's Play-Offs. But he's on his way this season and Las Vegas's TPC Summerlin obviously suits him.

4).Westwood finished 12th and then announced his caddie had spotted an alignment problem after a disappointing Round 1. Now he's straightened out he can go to Malaysia and Shanghai in good nick with high hopes of kicking 2015 off with a bag-full of money and FedEx points already in his grasp.

5).This is the final week to qualify for China's WGC HSBC Champions event via the owgr Top 50 . . . . and the R2D Top 15.
The next Major milestone will be Dec 31st when the owgr Top 50 will qualify to join Sang Moon at The Masters. So, lots to play for as the European Tour reaches its season's climax and there are still half a dozen events on the PGA Tour, not to mention rewarding tournaments elsewhere. The PGA Tour player who opts to take a breather during this time could well find himself slipping behind, both in rankings and FedEx points.

6).Billy Horschel is back in action this week, technically defending his FedEx title, and is joined by defending Las Vegas champ, and habitual texter, Webb Simpson. Jimmy Walker's playing too, but not sure why. He played last weekend as if he was suffering a Gleneagles hangover.

7).Jarrod Lyle is in the Las Vegas field after completing a wonderful week at the Frys. Not just Monday qualifying, not just winning $33K, but he now has just $250K to earn from 19 tournaments to fulfil the requirements of his Medical Extension. Hopefully he'll win plenty more than that, and the big prize is finishing the season in the Top 125. His schedule takes a detour after this week as he's off back to Australia for a few tournaments and medical check ups, after which one assumes with fingers crossed that we'll see him next in Hawaii.

8).There are the usual European suspects playing this week, including Laird, Harrington and Gonzo. And Russell Knox who showed plenty of rust at Silverado but has played well in his Las Vegas past; in the top ten after 54 holes last year before fading.
Local lads with good records here and well worth looking out for include Ryan Moore and Charlie Hoffman, while I'd be happy to see Nick Watney resume his good form of late summer.

9).Not so many Tour trips to the desert this year, just Las Vegas, the Humana (the old Bob Hope) in the California desert, and Phoenix. No Tucson event and Humana is not renewing its contract.
But Silverado looked a great addition to the Tour, thought the course looked a really interesting challenge with a fun ending - Par-5 16th, shortish Par-4 17th and another Par-5 to close.

10).Can't finish without a Ryder Cup funny.
There was a great picture of a Newcastle fan's banner at Swansea a week or so ago lamenting their recent record under Pardew.
To paraphrase their W's, D's and mostly L's:
L L W L L L W L L L  . . . . . is not a town in Wales!

robopz wrote:

GPB wrote:Nice of the European Tour to give (official?) wins to Rory, Stenson and Kaymer for the Ryder Cup.

But Sergio, Doobie and Gallacher don't get a win.

(Haven't checked the rest of the players)

Huh?  What are you talking about ?

Look at Euro Tour Bio for Stenson (Kaymer and Rory are similar)

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=2090/wins/index.html

But Sergio does not get credit.

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=487/wins/index.html

Not a good MatchPlay so far for the Scots, but they're making up for it in Nevada.
Russell Knox finishes his first 9 holes in the lead at -6, and Martin Laird is in 3rd place at -3 after 4 holes.

GPB wrote:

robopz wrote:

GPB wrote:Nice of the European Tour to give (official?) wins to Rory, Stenson and Kaymer for the Ryder Cup.

But Sergio, Doobie and Gallacher don't get a win.

(Haven't checked the rest of the players)

Huh?  What are you talking about ?

Look at Euro Tour Bio for Stenson (Kaymer and Rory are similar)

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=2090/wins/index.html

But Sergio does not get credit.

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=487/wins/index.html

OK... now that is strange...

Wow... GREAT start for Jarrod Lyle in Vegas... -5, currently T4... Hope he can maintain. Asking for a win might be way too much... but maybe knocking off half of the $250k he needs to satisfy his medical isn't out of the question... A roughly 13th place finish would do that.

Laird and Knox kinda stalled on their second nines, but still . . . . Laird tied, with Cink, for the early lead as he holes a snake for a 64, Knox one shot back with 65.

Jarrod Lyle a shot further back as he continues his comeback.
SNAP robo!

kwinigolfer wrote:Jarrod Lyle a shot further back as he continues his comeback.
SNAP robo!

Robo - Interesting analysis on the UK Tax situation for (so many of the top) professional golfers wishing to compete there. Sponsors need to make commitments long before the roster of contenders is known; so no wonder sponsors aren't lining up in the UK. You can't tax what you don't earn.

Another media conspiracy against Sergio! Will it never end?

Hope O'Hair makes the cut; and so great to see Lyle up there.

Sr,
What was wrong with SO'H last week?
Game gone south or back gone stiff? Or both??

They might as well get the Comeback Player of the Year out of hibernation and give it to Jarrod Lyle right now!

Hat-Trick of bogeys so Kevin Na walks off the course.
Apparently his w/d rate is more than 5%.

Slow player, prone to tantrums, pillock on the course, more than a 1 in 20 chance he'll do a runner, great short game.

EDIT: For the sake of completeness, Jason Gore (who walked in on his 6th hole) has an even worse w/d rate (about 6%) than Na. Pathetic. Always seems an entertaining bloke to follow, but for how long??!!

At the Matchplay: Dubuisson and Luiten seem to be the only "locks" for a quarter final spot at this point, having won both their group matches so far.

Gallacher, Molinari and Levy have lost both of theirs. The Lowry/Larrazabal match today will decide who goes through in their group, should be a belter.

Bad workman?
Ian Poulter announces his contract with Cobra is terminated.
No word yet on new agreement.

And Webb Simpson bemoaning his lack of playing time at the Ryder Cup - he's beginning to seem like a bit of an entitled pr1ck. Still no word as to how Bill Haas feels about him.

I'd imagine Poulter is going to Titleist. He's a strong advocate for the Pro-V so can't see him moving to Callaway, Nike or Taylor Made where he'd have to change ball.

super_realist wrote:I'd imagine Poulter is going to Titleless.

kwinigolfer wrote:...And Webb Simpson bemoaning his lack of playing time at the Ryder Cup - he's beginning to seem like a bit of an entitled pr1ck. Still no word as to how Bill Haas feels about him.

Seriously?? The results show he's woefully out of any form he might once have had and, tbh, he looked very, very poor on his two outings at the RC. He was extremely lucky to play the other hacker on show during the RC in the singles.
His record may always have that he's won the U.S. Open, but I'd be happy to bet he never gets close to another Major. I wonder what he did to God? Must have been bad...

Don't know Kwin. Needs to find his mojo and soon.

Just wondering, if a player had said that he was happy with just playing two matches, what would you think?

IMO, the Ryder Cup needs to go to the original Prez Cup format. 5 matches in the first four sessions...and everyone plays at least 1 match every day.

or better yet, go to the current Prez Cup format.

4 days of competition

6 foursome matches Day 1
6 Fourball matches Day 2
5 Foursomes matches Day 3 Morning
5 Fourball matches Day 3 afternoon
12 singles on Day 4

Bet the members of London Golf Club really like all the noise coming from the nearby race track.

Wish production could silence all the background noise of what sounds like motorcycles.

GPB wrote:Just wondering, if a player had said that he was happy with just playing two matches, what would you think?

IMO, the Ryder Cup needs to go to the original Prez Cup format.  5 matches in the first four sessions...and everyone plays at least 1 match every day.

or better yet, go to the current Prez Cup format.

4 days of competition

6 foursome matches Day 1
6 Fourball matches Day 2
5 Foursomes matches Day 3 Morning
5 Fourball matches Day 3 afternoon
12 singles on Day 4

Why change it? Seems to work well and has done for many years.

That doesn't make much sense GPB, change the format of one of the worlds most intriguing and exciting competitions to match the format of one of the worlds least interesting and forgettable?

If a player plays poorly, who wants to see him play more regularly?
It's Simpson's (and Gallacher's) fault they only played twice. Nothing to do with the format.

It might help the Americans' because it would mean the Captain has to do less work, but I don't think it would make a better tournament.

All very well saying that about Simpson, but there was no humility in his interviews, no "I played poorly".
He was lucky to be picked in the first place, never did anything to justify his arrogance in pleading his case by constant texting.


Some terrific shots being played in Kent.

Casey being a bit of a pr1ck with Blixt.
Probably remembering how p1ssed off he was when Jason Day did that to him a couple of years ago. Last two holes should be interesting.

kwinigolfer wrote:All very well saying that about Simpson, but there was no humility in his interviews, no "I played poorly".
He was lucky to be picked in the first place, never did anything to justify his arrogance in pleading his case by constant texting.


Some terrific shots being played in Kent.

Exactly Kwini, you'd think someone with a bit of self awareness might have said something like "I would have liked to have played more, but I didn't play well and accept the captain's decision to leave me out"

Maybe God could be the captain of 'Murca next time out.

kwinigolfer wrote:Casey being a bit of a pr1ck with Blixt.
Probably remembering how p1ssed off he was when Jason Day did that to him a couple of years ago. Last two holes should be interesting.

What happened Kwini? Stuck at work with no tv access!

Blixt gave Casey a two-footer, but then Casey did not reciprocate. Jonas looked pretty peeved.
All square in the 18th fairway in a must-win match for each.

Why change it? Because, IMO, players deserve to play.

And More Golf is better Golf IMO. More TV Revenue if there is an extra day etc.

And just because the UK has no interest in an event does not mean it is forgettable.

The format was tweaked for years and years, in almost all cases to benefit the East side of the Pond.

USA vs GB
USA vs GB&I
USA vs Europe

I read (or heard) somewhere (No I do not have a citation) that the current format was adopted so Sunday Singles would mean something. I think it was Peter Oosterhuis who said it, but I am not sure.

Europe has got to the point where they are just as deep as the Americans are. Let them all play, every day.

(as I used to say to guys that asked for handicap strokes from me, "If you are scared, say "scared" ")

Less is sometimes more GPB,
Players are aware they aren't entitled to play every match, or even 3 or 4. Team players realise this, Simpsons outburst is just another symptom of the lack of cohesion and self awareness in the American team. I'm sure Gallacher might have wanted to play more, but he said nothing but positive things about his experience, despite winning zero points.  It's an outlook like that that makes Europe a team, and America a disparate pack of bitter losers.

The format was  tweaked as you say to actually make it a contest rather than to benefit the "east side".
To think that the golfing might of the US would be given a competitive match by GB or GB&O would be rather naive and rightly no one would be interested in such a competition.  It had to change.

Today's competition doesn't have to change, but the Americans ineffective approach to it clearly does.

If the commentators are correct, Blixt & Casey halved their match with matching 62's. Extra time for them both!

Poor weeks for Molinari and Lowry given they both had plenty at stake.

kwinigolfer wrote:If the commentators are correct, Blixt & Casey halved their match with matching 62's. Extra time for them both!

Poor weeks for Molinari and Lowry given they both had plenty at stake.

Or plenty of "steak" in Lowry's case

Super - Fully agree with that assessment. Why Webb-o felt the need to comment is beyond me. Let's not forget he was a Captain's Pick (not a good one, IMO either). Less commentary, more golf.

I have no problem with changing or keeping the format ... like the extra day, and I'm sure the TV guys would as well.

The RC is not a charity exhibition, GPB.
If I'm not mistaken, at Oak Hill, after Clark and James stunk out the joint in their first match, Gallacher got them together and said words to the effect of, "That's not good enough, get yourselves a day and a half of focussed practice and we'll need points from both of you in the singles."
In a Scottish accent of course.

And that's what Bernie got, Maggert and Jacobsen duffed up.

Shotrock wrote:Super - Fully agree with that assessment. Why Webb-o felt the need to comment is beyond me. Let's not forget he was a Captain's Pick (not a good one, IMO either). Less commentary, more golf.

I have no problem with changing or keeping the format ... like the extra day, and I'm sure the TV guys would as well.

I think part of the issue with the extra day is the fine balance we usually have in Ryder Cups going into the last day and the value of the singles. We could genuinely have a situation where it could be over before then or a points requirement from the singles required that would be almost impossible to over-turn.

I think they've got it right at the moment and I think an extra day might well cause problems in terms of excitement if it was going to mean lots of dead rubbers or a near impossible overturn of score.

Who said anything about a charity match. I happened to think more golf is better golf.

How many times have we heard the cliche that 36 hole matches have a better chance at identifying the better player.

IMO, the more points at stake, the chances are greater that the better team wins.

Why is 4+4+4+4+12 optimum? Who says? Because it always been done that way?

Well it hasn't always been done that way? It wasn't even done that way four years ago in Wales.

If golf was not evolving, the pros would be using featheries and hickory shaft clubs.

Thrown away by Casey. Just not quite back to prime-time form is he?

British Isles will be shut out barring a miracle from McDool (and Ilonen).

I've often made the statement that 51 weeks a year, I don't really care WHERE the golfers are from that win tournaments, especially on the PGAT.... But that one week a year of Ryder & President's Cups, I'm RAH, RAH USA all the way.

But this week with the Volvo World Match Play... I'll admit I'm pulling for Reed... and BECAUSE he's an American.

Bottom line... IMO this past Ryder Cup proved to be such an embarrassment to the USA (not just the result, but especially the aftermath)... I'd like to see an American get us at least SOME vindication in a match play event against an international field. Not that it really vindicates anything... but sheesh... at least it's something!!! And just as important, I'd like to see America start to produce some Match Play wizards again out of some of these young guns so we have at least a fighting chance in future Ryder Cups.

GPB wrote:...How many times have we heard the cliche that 36 hole matches have a better chance at identifying the better player.  

IMO, the more points at stake, the chances are greater that the better team wins....

Is that all we're after? The "better team" (on paper presumably) winning? I'm not interested in that. That's a bit like saying to someone "OK. Best of three then". "Ah! You won! OK, best of 5?" Etc etc. A significant part of what makes sport compelling is that it often doesn't work they way we'd imagine on paper and it'd be a lot duller if that wasn't the case.

I'm hoping for a Reed vs Stenson re-match!

Early starters in Las Vegas showing nothing like the form of yesterday's morning "wave". But would still think the cut will creep down to -2.
Which means Harrington would need to play his last ten holes in one under. Let's hope he does.

robopz wrote:I've often made the statement that 51 weeks a year, I don't really care WHERE the golfers are from that win tournaments, especially on the PGAT.... But that one week a year of Ryder & President's Cups, I'm RAH, RAH USA all the way.

But this week with the Volvo World Match Play... I'll admit I'm pulling for Reed... and BECAUSE he's an American.

Bottom line... IMO this past Ryder Cup proved to be such an embarrassment to the USA (not just the result, but especially the aftermath)... I'd like to see an American get us at least SOME vindication in a match play event against an international field. Not that it really vindicates anything... but sheesh... at least it's something!!! And just as important, I'd like to see America start to produce some Match Play wizards again out of some of these young guns so we have at least a fighting chance in future Ryder Cups.

Be interesting to keep an eye on Top5 over the next few years. Clearly has the basic ability and also has some dog in him, which actually works because he can so obviously back it with his game - it's not hollow. He also obviously enjoys matchplay as well, which helps. Yep, the U.S. definitely needs to find some more like him.

navyblueshorts wrote:

GPB wrote:...How many times have we heard the cliche that 36 hole matches have a better chance at identifying the better player.  

IMO, the more points at stake, the chances are greater that the better team wins....

Is that all we're after? The "better team" (on paper presumably) winning? I'm not interested in that. That's a bit like saying to someone "OK. Best of three then". "Ah! You won! OK, best of 5?" Etc etc. A significant part of what makes sport compelling is that it often doesn't work they way we'd imagine on paper and it'd be a lot duller if that wasn't the case.

Yes, I am interested in the best team winning, whatever team that is.

Again, what makes the 4+4+4+4+12 format so special? Because Europe is winning?

Change is not necessarily bad. The Ryder Cup format changed over its first 50 years to make it more competitive. So why did it stop changing? Because Europe got more competitive and stopped whining about it.

GPB wrote:Who said anything about a charity match.  I happened to think more golf is better golf.

How many times have we heard the cliche that 36 hole matches have a better chance at identifying the better player.  

IMO, the more points at stake, the chances are greater that the better team wins.

Why is 4+4+4+4+12 optimum?  Who says?  Because it always been done that way?

Well it hasn't always been done that way?  It wasn't even done that way four years ago in Wales.

If golf was not evolving, the pros would be using featheries and hickory shaft clubs.  

2010 Still had 8 Foursomes and 8 Fourballs and 12 Singles, it was simply the scheduling that changed due to the weather.

Europe don't win because of the format, they win because of America's ineptitude to understand how to get 12 guys to play in a cohesive fashion.
You can't blame Europe or the format for that.

The Ryder Cup IS an exhibition event ... The charity? Mostly the European Tour.

Very true s_r, don't feel as if anyone has ever claimed that Europe has the best individual players, just the best Team.
Which is a lot bigger than just 12 golfers.
I liked the McGinley/Ken Brown exchange when Kenny went to congratulate McGinley. According to the story I read, McGinley hugged him and told him he was a part of the winning team too.
There's a Team heritage that perhaps Team USA is only just beginning to figure out.


Sr,
Judging by the number of flunkies at Gleneagles, mostly dressed like overweight morticians, the PGA Of America is the biggest beneficiary! Europe just has the bragging rights, the Thrill of Victory, yes, but also inflicting the Agony of Defeat!

Looks like Simpson may be trying to answer his critics.  5 under so far today and one shot off of the lead in Vegas. Maybe he got a new driver...

Wrong again Kwin ... but you know of the true financial impact the Ryder Cup has on the floundering European Tour. Now let's see how well they use this cash infusion.

I'm betting even more of "their" players have the big tour as their professional goal and, for many, their new home.

http://espn.go.com/golf/rydercup14/story/_/id/11571700/at-ryder-cup-follow-money-golf

Go Europe.

navyblueshorts wrote:

robopz wrote:I've often made the statement that 51 weeks a year, I don't really care WHERE the golfers are from that win tournaments, especially on the PGAT.... But that one week a year of Ryder & President's Cups, I'm RAH, RAH USA all the way.

But this week with the Volvo World Match Play... I'll admit I'm pulling for Reed... and BECAUSE he's an American.

Bottom line... IMO this past Ryder Cup proved to be such an embarrassment to the USA (not just the result, but especially the aftermath)... I'd like to see an American get us at least SOME vindication in a match play event against an international field. Not that it really vindicates anything... but sheesh... at least it's something!!! And just as important, I'd like to see America start to produce some Match Play wizards again out of some of these young guns so we have at least a fighting chance in future Ryder Cups.

Be interesting to keep an eye on Top5 over the next few years. Clearly has the basic ability and also has some dog in him, which actually works because he can so obviously back it with his game - it's not hollow. He also obviously enjoys matchplay as well, which helps. Yep, the U.S. definitely needs to find some more like him.

I loved the "moxie in the top-5 comment Reed made earlier this year, even though quite predictably he pretty much had to eat those words.

But what I really like about Reed is how the abuse he's taken over those comments seems to be causing him exactly ZERO concern. The brass he showed at the RC was great stuff... and regardless how he does this week he's continuing to demonstrate that when he gets in position, whoever is up against him better be on top of their game cuz there's no quit in this guy. And that's a quality we see in so FEW players these days.

Sr,
That article has been linked in before, but it's all a matter of scale.

Incidentally, a late friend of mine, and most probably acquaintance of yours, was a good friend and significant supplier to Terry Matthews' Newbridge outfit, designing and building componentry on N.Genesee St!

Good morning's work from Padraig Harrington and he'll make yet another cut!
Looks like a very tidy round and good to see his PGA Tour season off to a positive start, so far anyway.

No-one making much of a statement yet. An opening for Team Scotland perhaps?

super_realist wrote:
2010 Still had 8 Foursomes and 8 Fourballs and 12 Singles, it was simply the scheduling that changed due to the weather.

Europe don't win because of the format, they win because of America's ineptitude to understand how to get 12 guys to play in a cohesive fashion.
You can't blame Europe or the format for that.

IMO your last sentence is correct for 2014... but NOT for 2010.  I think we had about as cohesive a team in 2010 as we've ever had.

But IMO while the 2010 matches did end up being 8 foursomes and 8 fourballs, the WAY in which the were played changed the very fabric of the matches.

IMO the beauty of the RC format as it exists today is it actually allows for some strategy by allowing for teams to play to their strengths both days, and conversely hide their weaknesses at the same time. IMO that's been one of the keys to Europe's success in so many of their prior RC wins where they didn't have the depth of the Americans.  

But in 2010 having to play 12 players at a time in split formats,  it worked in reverse, exposing America's weaknesses (specifically in foursomes), and at the same time keeping them from playing all their strengths in fourball.  For example,  by having to play ALL 12 players in foursomes on Saturday, it forced the American's  to play Mickelson/DJ and Overton/Watson in foursomes, in which they probably wouldn't have played.  It also forced Pavin to decide either/or  foursomes or fourballs the last day with Woods/Stricker... and thus prevented our perceived best team from playing 5 matches. IMO Pavin chose wrong on Woods/Stricker and that in effect was the difference in the matches.  

Granted... I'm sure the Euro team can point to specific examples of where the session makups could have been a disadvantage to them too... but I don't think it was NEAR the detriment to the Euro team as it was to the Americans.

Interesting Kwin, curious who the person you are referring to is.

Heading to Vegas on Sunday, too late for the golf ... and, while I'm not a gambler, do enjoy the engineering feats the strip offers.