Racing Metro confirm Lydiate is returning to Welsh rugby after Autumn Internationals

First topic message reminder :

Wonder where he'll go, rumours are saying the Ospreys?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29829607?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_wales_sport&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=wales

Dragons need depth. ATM, U20 players, despite their capability, can't offer that. I'd like to see him return home. He'd be a good link Cudd and Faletau. Or we could put Evans at 7 with Cudd to bench if going for the heavier pack.

The Saint wrote:Dragons need depth. ATM, U20 players, despite their capability, can't offer that. I'd like to see him return home. He'd be a good link Cudd and Faletau. Or we could put Evans at 7 with Cudd to bench if going for the heavier pack.

A part timer whose game time is managed at the behest of a rival organisation will not add depth.

If we are going to play Cudd we need a ball carrier at 6, and Dan is never going to be that.

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:Dragons need depth. ATM, U20 players, despite their capability, can't offer that. I'd like to see him return home. He'd be a good link Cudd and Faletau. Or we could put Evans at 7 with Cudd to bench if going for the heavier pack.

A part timer whose game time is managed at the behest of a rival organisation will not add depth.  

If we are going to play Cudd we need a ball carrier at 6, and Dan is never going to be that.

Better get rid of guys like Faletau, Amos, etc then.

I'd rather have Dan there for 16 games a season than some semi-pro.

The Saint wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:Dragons need depth. ATM, U20 players, despite their capability, can't offer that. I'd like to see him return home. He'd be a good link Cudd and Faletau. Or we could put Evans at 7 with Cudd to bench if going for the heavier pack.

A part timer whose game time is managed at the behest of a rival organisation will not add depth.  

If we are going to play Cudd we need a ball carrier at 6, and Dan is never going to be that.

Better get rid of guys like Faletau, Amos, etc then.

I'd rather have Dan there for 16 games a season than some semi-pro.

Faletau is hardly comparable, he rarely misses a game for the Dragons and is one of only a few of the DC list who will offer value to a club. But if we were to offload Toby Faletau and sign a Nick Williams he'd be of far more benefit.

Likewise, 100% of players like Lewis Evans offer more to the Dragons than a fraction of Dan Lydiate by far. Lydiate will only fit with a very specific game plan, a game plan that is dysfunctional against the better teams.

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:Dragons need depth. ATM, U20 players, despite their capability, can't offer that. I'd like to see him return home. He'd be a good link Cudd and Faletau. Or we could put Evans at 7 with Cudd to bench if going for the heavier pack.

A part timer whose game time is managed at the behest of a rival organisation will not add depth.  

If we are going to play Cudd we need a ball carrier at 6, and Dan is never going to be that.

Better get rid of guys like Faletau, Amos, etc then.

I'd rather have Dan there for 16 games a season than some semi-pro.

Faletau is hardly comparable, he rarely misses a game for the Dragons and is one of only a few of the DC list who will offer value to a club.  But if we were to offload Toby Faletau and sign a Nick Williams he'd be of far more benefit.

Likewise, 100% of players like Lewis Evans offer more to the Dragons than a fraction of Dan Lydiate by far.  Lydiate will only fit with a very specific game plan, a game plan that is dysfunctional against the better teams.

Sounds like you're suggesting we move towards offloading all our internationals. I think you're slightly forgetting what the regional teams are for.

You're right about Evans but perhaps a little unfair on Lydiate. In recent times he's mostly been injured, but he was pretty good before that. Again, I'd rather more internationals in the team (they get more money from WRU then), but I think it is likely he'll be at Ospreys.

The Saint wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:Dragons need depth. ATM, U20 players, despite their capability, can't offer that. I'd like to see him return home. He'd be a good link Cudd and Faletau. Or we could put Evans at 7 with Cudd to bench if going for the heavier pack.

A part timer whose game time is managed at the behest of a rival organisation will not add depth.  

If we are going to play Cudd we need a ball carrier at 6, and Dan is never going to be that.

Better get rid of guys like Faletau, Amos, etc then.

I'd rather have Dan there for 16 games a season than some semi-pro.

Faletau is hardly comparable, he rarely misses a game for the Dragons and is one of only a few of the DC list who will offer value to a club.  But if we were to offload Toby Faletau and sign a Nick Williams he'd be of far more benefit.

Likewise, 100% of players like Lewis Evans offer more to the Dragons than a fraction of Dan Lydiate by far.  Lydiate will only fit with a very specific game plan, a game plan that is dysfunctional against the better teams.

Sounds like you're suggesting we move towards offloading all our internationals. I think you're slightly forgetting what the regional teams are for.

You're right about Evans but perhaps a little unfair on Lydiate. In recent times he's mostly been injured, but he was pretty good before that. Again, I'd rather more internationals in the team (they get more money from WRU then), but I think it is likely he'll be at Ospreys.

What are the regional teams for? Paying Roger's bonuses? Keeping Gatland's select players reasonably match fit?

Unless this attitude changes pro rugby in Wales is finished.

Hence why we need less (current) internationals in our teams, if we are to grow we need successful professional sides in their own right, that command greater sponsorship and access to competition money, and don't rely on the pittance we've had in the past from the WRU.

It would seem Gareth Davies understands this, where WRog patently does not.

It was stated from the off that the Regions were set up with the intention of improving the Welsh National set up and in that instant they have.

The massive difference with Faletau compared to Lydiate is he has to be told to rest, as he shows a lot more willingness to come straight back into our squad.

bedfordwelsh wrote:It was stated from the off that the Regions were set up with the intention of improving the Welsh National set up and in that instant they have.

Stone Motif, this. Perhaps you'd be happier watching Cross Keys play (up until the Dragons use some of their players that is).

Risca Rev wrote:The massive difference with Faletau compared to Lydiate is he has to be told to rest, as he shows a lot more willingness to come straight back into our squad.

Not doubting either players loyalty. Was Lydiate always like this though? A few long-term lay offs from injury can't be good for a player's morale, and unless you were playing for the Dragons (or heard something we haven't) I don't see how one can judge a players willingness.

I don't think Lydiate is an absolute superstar, nor do I agree with the Irish that he's a waste of oxygen, but that doesn't stop me from seeing how some people here are being unfair towards him.

I think that it would be nice if he returned to the Dragons - a lot of young players there who would benefit from his experience.

How would he work at the Os? I thought that 6 Bearman 7 Tipuric 8 Baker was a pretty well balanced combination.

I also wouldn't read too much into why he worked at RM or why he didn't. Lots of good players just don't fit into systems - they don't suddenly become bad players (Chris Paterson tanking at the Cherries always jumps to mind). I also don't get the sense that RM are as good at mixing foreign players into the club set up as the likes of Toulon and Toulouse are.

I think Bearman is being transitioned out slowly but surely, no surprise. He'd be better off providing cover for their locks right now so they can keep guys like King (their first choice blind-side) in the back-row. The only change would be that Sam Lewis wouldn't have a place on the bench as often.

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:Dragons need depth. ATM, U20 players, despite their capability, can't offer that. I'd like to see him return home. He'd be a good link Cudd and Faletau. Or we could put Evans at 7 with Cudd to bench if going for the heavier pack.

A part timer whose game time is managed at the behest of a rival organisation will not add depth.  

If we are going to play Cudd we need a ball carrier at 6, and Dan is never going to be that.

Better get rid of guys like Faletau, Amos, etc then.

I'd rather have Dan there for 16 games a season than some semi-pro.

Faletau is hardly comparable, he rarely misses a game for the Dragons and is one of only a few of the DC list who will offer value to a club.  But if we were to offload Toby Faletau and sign a Nick Williams he'd be of far more benefit.

Likewise, 100% of players like Lewis Evans offer more to the Dragons than a fraction of Dan Lydiate by far.  Lydiate will only fit with a very specific game plan, a game plan that is dysfunctional against the better teams.

Sounds like you're suggesting we move towards offloading all our internationals. I think you're slightly forgetting what the regional teams are for.

You're right about Evans but perhaps a little unfair on Lydiate. In recent times he's mostly been injured, but he was pretty good before that. Again, I'd rather more internationals in the team (they get more money from WRU then), but I think it is likely he'll be at Ospreys.

What are the regional teams for?  Paying Roger's bonuses?  Keeping Gatland's select players reasonably match fit?

Unless this attitude changes pro rugby in Wales is finished.

Hence why we need less (current) internationals in our teams, if we are to grow we need successful professional sides in their own right, that command greater sponsorship and access to competition money, and don't rely on the pittance we've had in the past from the WRU.

It would seem Gareth Davies understands this, where WRog patently does not.

Agreed.

TBJ9625 wrote:If he's offered a dual contract he may have limited choice where he goes? So it may not be a snub

Limited to 1 of 4 lol

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:It was stated from the off that the Regions were set up with the intention of improving the Welsh National set up and in that instant they have.

Stone Motif, this. Perhaps you'd be happier watching Cross Keys play (up until the Dragons use some of their players that is).

Jesus wept. Improved it at the cost of the entire pro game in Wales lest we forget. If regional supporters genuinely think like this, then if I was one of the pro-tier benefactors who've been thanklessly keeping our professional game intact for the last decade I would be tamping at the Rogeresque BS seen in these two posts from the people who claim to be in their target market. What the hell did RRW aka PRW fight for these last five years?

Is there some unwritten rule that a professional Welsh team can't aim to be successful in it's own right? No wonder we never frickin' win anything of note in Wales...

The Dragons will gain nothing from Lydiate but a name on the roster and the warm fuzzy feeling of seeing money they should have spent on a ten and a gain line 12 frittered on the altar of the Rogerbowl. Team Wales be ffwct.

Stone Motif wrote:

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:It was stated from the off that the Regions were set up with the intention of improving the Welsh National set up and in that instant they have.

Stone Motif, this. Perhaps you'd be happier watching Cross Keys play (up until the Dragons use some of their players that is).

Jesus wept.  Improved it at the cost of the entire pro game in Wales lest we forget.  If regional supporters genuinely think like this, then if I was one of the pro-tier benefactors who've been thanklessly keeping our professional game intact for the last decade I would be tamping at the Rogeresque BS seen in these two posts from the people who claim to be in their target market.  What the hell did RRW aka PRW fight for these last five years?

Is there some unwritten rule that a professional Welsh team can't aim to be successful in it's own right?  No wonder we never frickin' win anything of note in Wales...

The Dragons will gain nothing from Lydiate but a name on the roster and the warm fuzzy feeling of seeing money they should have spent on a ten and a gain line 12 frittered on the altar of the Rogerbowl.  Team Wales be ffwct.  

Not really sure what you're getting at Stone RE demise of the game in Wales. But I always thought Gatland and everyone on here wanted to move closer towards the NZ model (which we have) in order to grow our game at every level.

Not sure. But if you want to be the most successful team in Europe, you'd need a squad like that of Clermont or Northampton (each littered with internationals).... Or one like Toulon. We don't have the money, so we'd need all internationals to be playing for Welsh teams and IMO that would help grow the regional game. With dual contracts on the increase the time for Regional A teams is NOW; and that itself would probably require a restructured Premiership.

Prostituting the four pro teams to achieve relative success in the very mediocre six nations is what I'm getting at. Closer to the NZ model? Really? Lloks like we've gone closer to the English model if you ask me, and why the ffwc we'd want to do anything but when we're not an Island in the middle of the Pacific I do not know.

Successful doesn't mean 'most successful', nor does it mean winning titles. I'd love the Dragons to be a club like Gloucester - part of a thriving league and a foundation of their city and community. I don't see what Welsh internationals add to that in the slightest. Success will grow the regional game, and being part of a meaningful competition. Not giving training-ground run outs for the likes of WRUburton and Lydiate to phone it in with their eyes on the next Wales match.

Agree on the Regional A game though. B&I is increasingly a fallacy whilst we work towards that. Not sure what restructuring the Prem would need though - just a recognition of the pro teams being what they are and a start to pro rugby being the defining purpose, rather than pandering to the entitlement of others and the daydreams of the WRU.

Stone Motif wrote:Prostituting the four pro teams to achieve relative success in the very mediocre six nations is what I'm getting at.  Closer to the NZ model? Really? Lloks like we've gone closer to the English model if you ask me, and why the ffwc we'd want to do anything but when we're not an Island in the middle of the Pacific I do not know.

Successful doesn't mean 'most successful', nor does it mean winning titles.  I'd love the Dragons to be a club like Gloucester - part of a thriving league and a foundation of their city and community.  I don't see what Welsh internationals add to that in the slightest.  Success will grow the regional game, and being part of a meaningful competition.  Not giving training-ground run outs for the likes of WRUburton and Lydiate to phone it in with their eyes on the next Wales match.  

Agree on the Regional A game though.  B&I is increasingly a fallacy whilst we work towards that. Not sure what restructuring the Prem would need though - just a recognition of the pro teams being what they are and a start to pro rugby being the defining purpose, rather than pandering to the entitlement of others and the daydreams of the WRU.

All so far so good and I wouldn't disagree with the often problematic relationship established International players might have with their clubs..  But the argument that club should be the defining purpose always tends to ignore the truth that many club players don't feel club is their final step on their rugby road to success.  

Many of them will still have those International dreams.  That's their Holy Grail as players, even though it might not be a priority for Regional/club fans.  So even if you offload 'phone-in' International players, you won't lose players who still have their sights set on International careers.  And if they play well enough for their club, that's where they go.  And if they go there, it's back around to the problem you mention of allegiances to International potentially informing their intensity levels for club.

Stone it's quite clearly closer to the NZ model. Regional/provincial teams, lower NWQ players, home based player policy, central contracts (NZ is now moving towards dual); NZ were the ones doing it first. In the European environment however, money is a bigger factor (it would be with England and France next door) than it is down under. That's the only difference.

How can you say that being successful doesn't mean winning titles? It's just that. If Dragons went unbeaten in the league then lost the final, fair enough, I'd see it as some sort of success. That would maybe grow the regional game, along with people getting to see their international players live on the field. I think young players would benefit from playing and training with these guys more regularly. I think 'training ground' might be just the way you see it Stone, but that view can't be overturned unless Gatland actually starts picking form players I guess. That way Lydiate and Warbs positions would be under threat. And whether you like it or not, clubs have always fed into the national team. Now the regional teams are doing so.

It requires a restructure in that it would be advisable for the premiership to take a couple weeks off whenever there is B&I cup rugby being played. I think I'd also like to see the prem expanded, kind of like a lower tier and upper tier like NZs league. Pontypool, Swansea, Glamorgan, Tonmawr, etc are too good for division 1. The A teams should contain regions fringe players and the best from the Prem. I only see A teams being a viable, long-term option if it happens this way. The a teams are necessary to increase Regional squad depth which is obviously necessary if DCs are on the rise.

The Saint wrote:Stone it's quite clearly closer to the NZ model. Regional/provincial teams, lower NWQ players, home based player policy, central contracts (NZ is now moving towards dual); NZ were the ones doing it first. In the European environment however, money is a bigger factor (it would be with England and France next door) than it is down under. That's the only difference.  

How can you say that being successful doesn't mean winning titles? It's just that. If Dragons went unbeaten in the league then lost the final, fair enough, I'd see it as some sort of success. That would maybe grow the regional game, along with people getting to see their international players live on the field. I think young players would benefit from playing and training with these guys more regularly. I think 'training ground' might be just the way you see it Stone, but that view can't be overturned unless Gatland actually starts picking form players I guess. That way Lydiate and Warbs positions would be under threat. And whether you like it or not, clubs have always fed into the national team. Now the regional teams are doing so.

It requires a restructure in that it would be advisable for the premiership to take a couple weeks off whenever there is B&I cup rugby being played. I think I'd also like to see the prem expanded, kind of like a lower tier and upper tier like NZs league. Pontypool, Swansea, Glamorgan, Tonmawr, etc are too good for division 1. The A teams should contain regions fringe players and the best from the Prem. I only see A teams being a viable, long-term option if it happens this way. The a teams are necessary to increase Regional squad depth which is obviously necessary if DCs are on the rise.

Go and read the latest press release from Pro Rugby Wales, Saint. The bullshart NWQ limit will be the first thing to go once GD does the sensible thing and divorces the professional and amateur tiers.

You say it yourself. Money means that the NZ model will never work for Wales, unless you haven't noticed we are entirely economically dependent on the land mass attached to our eastern border. We need to synchronise with that or die. Our 'regional' executives see that - I can only thank god you are not in charge of my company.

TBH, if DCs are on the rise then they might need more NWQ... I think the number should stay as it is though, any higher they'll just be gash NWQs.

Yeah sure thing Stone, only you're whinging about everything and not proposing any solutions, apart from the ludicrous regions go their own way and forget team Wales. Now THAT is when the game Wales collapses.

Surely though any player worth his salt will want to get to the highest level possible so even if we get rid of Faletau and Amos because we don't want a team with any International in someone else will come along who is good enough and your back to square one again.

As for the Gloucester well yes they are a fantastic family club but I have a fair number of friends who are die hard shed heads and trust me they crave success in the form of winning things like anyone else.

The toughest problem in Wales is still raising the quality of rugby below regional level.

If all our top overseas players return we will have some rather disgruntled youngsters who are less likely to be given opportunity to show their attributes.

I doubt any of the Regions can afford Lydiate at present, as I am sure they will have already spent up to the wire their player salary budget for this season. Don’t forget that although the WRU will pay 60% of the salary, the regions have to find 40% from their existing budgets.

The only way that the likes of Lydiate and other players who may return from France and England can be accommodated is if some of the Regions existing contracted players get central contracts. If 60% of, say; Dan Biggar and Alun Wyn Jones salary is paid by the WRU, the Ospreys will then have funds freed up to recruit Lydiate and possibly other returning players.

The big issue for the Regions though, is the 16 game cap placed on centrally contracted players. One of the candidates for a central contract, Scott Williams had already played 10 games for the Scarlets up to the end of October. And it did him good to get back up to match fitness and form after missing most of 2014 through injury. Assuming he plays in the next 4 Euro games, that leaves him with just 2 more Pro 12 games for the rest of the season. I suspect that won’t suit the Scarlets, their supporters or Scott himself, who will want to play to keep up his form and fitness for the World cup.

Hopefully the T&Cs of these contracts become more negotiable... The Irish play a limited amount of games but seem to be available more often than not.

From a normally well informed poster on our board we (Os) have offered him a deal with no DC involved, the Dragons are still contemplating whether to offer him something to return, and a couple of English West country teams are in for him, it should all be settled by the end of the AIs.

wayne wrote:From a normally well informed poster on our board we (Os) have offered him a deal with no DC involved, the Dragons are still contemplating whether to offer him something to return, and a couple of English West country teams are in for him, it should all be settled by the end of the AIs.

Surely they way the announcement was made as in he would be returning to Wales then I image something is already nearly done and dusted. If the English get him then it makes the announcement of him retunring to Wales a huge mockery.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:From a normally well informed poster on our board we (Os) have offered him a deal with no DC involved, the Dragons are still contemplating whether to offer him something to return, and a couple of English West country teams are in for him, it should all be settled by the end of the AIs.

Surely they way the announcement was made as in he would be returning to Wales then I image something is already nearly done and dusted.  If the English get him then it makes the announcement of him retunring to Wales a huge mockery.

BW, I've explained my position as to where he should go, this poster I quoted is sometimes wrong, yet if your team are not prepared to offer what he considers a fair offer, and we are not prepared to come in on a DC deal, with all its ramifications and are willing to sign him on an Ospreys deal, and he is not prepared to accept that, what is left for him. Can I also say this 16 match restriction DOES NOT INCLUDE any play off game, it was mentioned IIRC in a TW press conference this week. The ball is in Dans court.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:From a normally well informed poster on our board we (Os) have offered him a deal with no DC involved, the Dragons are still contemplating whether to offer him something to return, and a couple of English West country teams are in for him, it should all be settled by the end of the AIs.

Surely they way the announcement was made as in he would be returning to Wales then I image something is already nearly done and dusted.  If the English get him then it makes the announcement of him retunring to Wales a huge mockery.

BW, I've explained my position as to where he should go, this poster I quoted is sometimes wrong, yet if your team are not prepared to offer what he considers a fair offer, and we are not prepared to come in on a DC deal, with all its ramifications and are willing to sign him on an Ospreys deal, and he is not prepared to accept that, what is left for him. Can I also say this 16 match restriction DOES NOT INCLUDE any play off game, it was mentioned IIRC in a TW press conference this week. The ball is in Dans court.

Wayne,

I agree and he would have to go somewhere but the nature of the announcement leads me to think that something is already in motion or like said it could be egg on face time with regards the announcement he's coming back to Wales.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:From a normally well informed poster on our board we (Os) have offered him a deal with no DC involved, the Dragons are still contemplating whether to offer him something to return, and a couple of English West country teams are in for him, it should all be settled by the end of the AIs.

Surely they way the announcement was made as in he would be returning to Wales then I image something is already nearly done and dusted.  If the English get him then it makes the announcement of him retunring to Wales a huge mockery.

BW, I've explained my position as to where he should go, this poster I quoted is sometimes wrong, yet if your team are not prepared to offer what he considers a fair offer, and we are not prepared to come in on a DC deal, with all its ramifications and are willing to sign him on an Ospreys deal, and he is not prepared to accept that, what is left for him. Can I also say this 16 match restriction DOES NOT INCLUDE any play off game, it was mentioned IIRC in a TW press conference this week. The ball is in Dans court.

It is true that the 16 games does not include play offs, but the fact remains that there are 15 Pro12 games left this season and if a player for example Scott Wiliams signs up to a central contract it is likely that he will only be able to play in TWO of them. (He has played 10 games to date plus is likely to play in the remaining 4 Euro games). This means he will be unavailable for key fixtures such as the Derby matches with the Ospreys and or Blues. Or the home games with Leinster, Munster or Glasgow. I doubt the Scarlets season ticket holders will be happy with that. Other players have also played lots of games, Biggar has I believe played 8 games already, so this is not an isolated case.

Seagultaf wrote:

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:From a normally well informed poster on our board we (Os) have offered him a deal with no DC involved, the Dragons are still contemplating whether to offer him something to return, and a couple of English West country teams are in for him, it should all be settled by the end of the AIs.

Surely they way the announcement was made as in he would be returning to Wales then I image something is already nearly done and dusted.  If the English get him then it makes the announcement of him retunring to Wales a huge mockery.

BW, I've explained my position as to where he should go, this poster I quoted is sometimes wrong, yet if your team are not prepared to offer what he considers a fair offer, and we are not prepared to come in on a DC deal, with all its ramifications and are willing to sign him on an Ospreys deal, and he is not prepared to accept that, what is left for him. Can I also say this 16 match restriction DOES NOT INCLUDE any play off game, it was mentioned IIRC in a TW press conference this week. The ball is in Dans court.

It is true that the 16 games does not include play offs, but the fact remains that there are 15 Pro12 games left this season and if a player for example Scott Wiliams signs up to a central contract it is likely that he will only be able to play in TWO of them. (He has played 10 games to date plus is likely to play in the remaining 4 Euro games). This means he will be unavailable for key fixtures such as the Derby matches with the Ospreys and or Blues. Or the home games with Leinster, Munster or Glasgow. I doubt the Scarlets season ticket holders will be happy with that. Other players have also played lots of games, Biggar has I believe played 8 games already, so this is not an isolated case.

Seagull, I don't know where you got your figures from, but Dan has played in every game this season except last week against Connacht and has played 8 games as you said, the Scarlets have played the same number of Guinness League games and RCC games as well, pre season games are NOT included, they both missed last Friday and 2 more games, one in the IRB window and the other outside the window, they will also miss at least 2 games when the 6N are being played, also the figure of 16 has been bandied about, there has NEVER as far as I've seen that as a concrete figure.

wayne wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:From a normally well informed poster on our board we (Os) have offered him a deal with no DC involved, the Dragons are still contemplating whether to offer him something to return, and a couple of English West country teams are in for him, it should all be settled by the end of the AIs.

Surely they way the announcement was made as in he would be returning to Wales then I image something is already nearly done and dusted.  If the English get him then it makes the announcement of him retunring to Wales a huge mockery.

BW, I've explained my position as to where he should go, this poster I quoted is sometimes wrong, yet if your team are not prepared to offer what he considers a fair offer, and we are not prepared to come in on a DC deal, with all its ramifications and are willing to sign him on an Ospreys deal, and he is not prepared to accept that, what is left for him. Can I also say this 16 match restriction DOES NOT INCLUDE any play off game, it was mentioned IIRC in a TW press conference this week. The ball is in Dans court.

It is true that the 16 games does not include play offs, but the fact remains that there are 15 Pro12 games left this season and if a player for example Scott Wiliams signs up to a central contract it is likely that he will only be able to play in TWO of them. (He has played 10 games to date plus is likely to play in the remaining 4 Euro games). This means he will be unavailable for key fixtures such as the Derby matches with the Ospreys and or Blues. Or the home games with Leinster, Munster or Glasgow. I doubt the Scarlets season ticket holders will be happy with that. Other players have also played lots of games, Biggar has I believe played 8 games already, so this is not an isolated case.

Seagull, I don't know where you got your figures from, but Dan has played in every game this season except last week against Connacht and has played 8 games as you said, the Scarlets have played the same number of Guinness League games and RCC games as well, pre season games are NOT included, they both missed last Friday and 2 more games, one in the IRB window and the other outside the window, they will also miss at least 2 games when the 6N are being played, also the figure of 16 has been bandied about, there has NEVER as far as I've seen that as a concrete figure.    

My figures come from the numerous press articles on the subject (eg below) but I admit I have not read the contract myself.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9483940,00.html

I have read nothing about pre-season friendlies being outside this number but I have read that if a player misses, say the autumn internationals or 6N the the 16 games can be added to also knock out games are outside this limit.

So back to my numbers if Scott Williams signs a central contract he can only play 2 of the 15 Pro 12 games remaining this season. Dan Biggar would only be able to play in 4 of the remaining 15. This is something which I suspect will be of great concern to the Sacrlets, Ospreys and other Welsh Regions who are likely to have some of their existing squad players tied up in Central Contracts. I suspect we will see the Regions pushing to be allowed to employ a lot more NWQ players to fill the gaps in their match day squads

Seagultaf wrote:

wayne wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:From a normally well informed poster on our board we (Os) have offered him a deal with no DC involved, the Dragons are still contemplating whether to offer him something to return, and a couple of English West country teams are in for him, it should all be settled by the end of the AIs.

Surely they way the announcement was made as in he would be returning to Wales then I image something is already nearly done and dusted.  If the English get him then it makes the announcement of him retunring to Wales a huge mockery.

BW, I've explained my position as to where he should go, this poster I quoted is sometimes wrong, yet if your team are not prepared to offer what he considers a fair offer, and we are not prepared to come in on a DC deal, with all its ramifications and are willing to sign him on an Ospreys deal, and he is not prepared to accept that, what is left for him. Can I also say this 16 match restriction DOES NOT INCLUDE any play off game, it was mentioned IIRC in a TW press conference this week. The ball is in Dans court.

It is true that the 16 games does not include play offs, but the fact remains that there are 15 Pro12 games left this season and if a player for example Scott Wiliams signs up to a central contract it is likely that he will only be able to play in TWO of them. (He has played 10 games to date plus is likely to play in the remaining 4 Euro games). This means he will be unavailable for key fixtures such as the Derby matches with the Ospreys and or Blues. Or the home games with Leinster, Munster or Glasgow. I doubt the Scarlets season ticket holders will be happy with that. Other players have also played lots of games, Biggar has I believe played 8 games already, so this is not an isolated case.

Seagull, I don't know where you got your figures from, but Dan has played in every game this season except last week against Connacht and has played 8 games as you said, the Scarlets have played the same number of Guinness League games and RCC games as well, pre season games are NOT included, they both missed last Friday and 2 more games, one in the IRB window and the other outside the window, they will also miss at least 2 games when the 6N are being played, also the figure of 16 has been bandied about, there has NEVER as far as I've seen that as a concrete figure.    

My figures come from the numerous press articles on the subject (eg below) but I admit I have not read the contract myself.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9483940,00.html

I have read nothing about pre-season friendlies being outside this number but I have read that if a player misses, say the autumn internationals or 6N the the 16 games can be added to also knock out games are outside this limit.

So back to my numbers if Scott Williams signs a central contract he can only play 2 of the 15 Pro 12 games remaining this season. Dan Biggar would only be able to play in 4 of the remaining 15. This is something which I suspect will be of great concern to the Sacrlets, Ospreys and other Welsh Regions who are likely to have some of their existing squad players tied up in Central Contracts. I suspect we will see the Regions pushing to be allowed to employ a lot more NWQ players to fill the gaps in their match day squads

Seagultaf, I had a similar discussion with somebody else on these boards and if you don't want to believe me, that's fine, basically what I've told you I KNOW is true, preseason games are NOT included, and if these players are not selected for any of the AI s OR 6N games because of injury these numbers are then added to the number of Regional games they can play in.

The media are still discussing and mentioning that he is returning to Wales so surely something must be in the pipeline - no?

Even Bristol turned him down this week.

Rule no.1: If you're Welsh, stay away from WRU contracts.

Rugby in general is a bit mad isn't it? Bored of it all in fact. Needs a damn good makeover.