Wlads Legacy

First topic message reminder :

Wlad Klitschko, in my opinion the most underrated fighter in recent years. The man has been flattened more times than a fat steak but has come back to being one of the most dominant reigning champions in the divisions history.

65 wins (52 kos)
3 losses

He is also on a current run of 16 championship defences since he has regained the title. I understand his competition hasn't been up too much but is it his fault? A man can only beat what is put in front of him. He also hasn't got a fan friendly style but he shouldn't be scored down too much for that because in the end of the day he gets the job done.

His record is not perfect but has been very impressive of late. Other great champions like Holmes and Louis didn't have a long list of ATG on their resumes but they are still thought of as up there as some of the very greatest and in Louis case p4p. Now am not saying Wlad should be rated as highly as these two legendary champions but he deserves to rated as an ATG none the less.

No matter what he is rated now I think history will be kind to him. Not the best Heavy ever but I think he should easily be in the top 15 of all time.

I know I will get flamed for defending Wlad and rating him but I do not care. I have a high opinion of a man who can stay hungry as long as he has and get the job done over and over again.

Whittaker didn't seem to want to know Terry Norris..............Especially after seeing his best Mate take the hiding of his life..

Robbo reneged on Turpin 3....The guy who was all wrong for him......10-5 in most experts eyes in London and had him desperately flurrying in the 2nd fight..

We all know Marv knew he was getting knocked out off Spinks......But unlike Dick Tiger/Fitzsimmons types he stayed in his comfort zone..

Only today's fighters duck though !! ...These cowardly types who are fighting for titles five times higher than when they first achieved glory...

Bottle-less swines..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Whittaker didn't seem to want to know Terry Norris..............Especially after seeing his best Mate take the hiding of his life..

Robbo reneged on Turpin 3....The guy who was all wrong for him......10-5 in most experts eyes in London and had him desperately flurrying in the 2nd fight..

We all know Marv knew he was getting knocked out off Spinks......But unlike Dick Tiger/Fitzsimmons types he stayed in his comfort zone..

Only today's fighters duck though !! ...These cowardly types who are fighting for titles five times higher than when they first achieved glory...

Bottle-less swines..

Don't think Floyd is a coward but I am frustrated that he didn't want Manny fight. Also frustrated with manny because he wasn't too vocal about it until he got ko by JJM. They are both to blame.

I was upset Bowe didn't thrash Lewis....

But it doesn't hurt his legacy for me..

I judge fighters by record and time at the top.............Not by imaginary fights that didn't happen.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I was upset Bowe didn't thrash Lewis....

But it doesn't hurt his legacy for me..

I judge fighters by record and time at the top.............Not by imaginary fights that didn't happen.

It does harm Bowe a bit though. If he had of took on Lewis he would be better thought of. Wonderful boxer though and had a great series of fights with Evander. Would be a real handful for anyone and is nearly the forgotten man when Heavys are mentioned.

If he'd have took on Lewis and lost he wouldn't have been better thought of....

Is Tyson better thought of for being battered by Lewis...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If he'd have took on Lewis and lost he wouldn't have been better thought of....

Is Tyson better thought of for being battered by Lewis...

Well if he had of took on Lewis and won? It is a gamble either way.

Check this out. I rate Mayweather as a top 10 great now. Possibly 9-10 on the list. If he beat Manny 4 or 5 years ago he would be farther up the list. If he lost he would fall way back. Maybe that's why he didn't want to know. Too risky for legacy and his earning potential with other fighters.

Think JMM outclassing Manny regularly has tarnished a win...........

Beating Manny would probably elevate him..

But not fighting Manny shouldn't detract...

Have to judge a fighter by his record and time at the top..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think JMM outclassing Manny regularly has tarnished a win...........

Beating Manny would probably elevate him..

But not fighting Manny shouldn't detract...

Have to judge a fighter by his record and time at the top..

Fair enough he is probably 10 on my list then. Had the potential to be higher.

F*CKING HELL Adam, feel free to grow a spine and form your own opinion any time you like son!

DAVE667 wrote:F*CKING HELL Adam, feel free to grow a spine and form your own opinion any time you like son!

My opinion is Floyd was top 10 and if he had of fought Manny he would be higher. I would be glad to tell you my full name and address and you can call me spinless to my face instead of behind the keyboard!

If you actually read the comments I far form agree with Truss with everything.

AdamT wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:F*CKING HELL Adam, feel free to grow a spine and form your own opinion any time you like son!

My opinion is Floyd was top 10 and if he had of fought Manny he would be higher. I would be glad to tell you my full name and address and you can call me spinless to my face instead of behind the keyboard!

It's up to you, feel free if you're that offended. Funny thing is, you seem to roll over so easily when anyone says anything that clashes with your own opinion, chances are you'd probably agree with me anyway.... then give me the petrol money home again.

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:F*CKING HELL Adam, feel free to grow a spine and form your own opinion any time you like son!

My opinion is Floyd was top 10 and if he had of fought Manny he would be higher. I would be glad to tell you my full name and address and you can call me spinless to my face instead of behind the keyboard!

It's up to you, feel free if you're that offended. Funny thing is, you seem to roll over so easily when anyone says anything that clashes with your own opinion, chances are you'd probably agree with me anyway.... then give me the petrol money home again.

Your right mate just beore I make you dinner and give you a couple of beer to be on your way. Have a good day Dave!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

AdamT wrote:

kingraf wrote:He can't, but can Wlad force him on the back foot? To do that, he'd have to take a... you know..
risk

I would imagine he could use his jab and superior bodyweight to good effect.

and he's five inches taller...with a huge reach advantage...

Louis is my number 2 but about 20 on any head to head.....

Walcott outboxed him..............So the bigger, heavier polished types like Tubbs, Witherspoon and page for me all outpoint him......Maybe Witherspoon stops him....

Bruno with Louis habit of walking into shots is 50/50...........Bruno lands the right it's good night............

Frazier, Foreman and Tyson are all mismatches.............

Product of his time....and no harm in that..Basically a cruiser.

Louis was past his best when he faced Walcott. He had no issue dealing with big men such as Carnera and Baer and while Klitschko is undoubtedly more polished, I'm not sure he's half as brave.

The Klitschko who ran from Haye when he finally became brave enough to throw a punch and grappled Povetkin so pathertically would dissolve in fron of the division's most effective puncher.

Louis would have obliterated Klitschko. Frank Bruno? Dear me...

Louis was the same height as Brewster -- with modern potions and pills he'd have packed on a fair bit more weight also. He'd be plenty big enough.

Adam is incredibly nice... Wonder if he's a serial killer by day?

kingraf wrote:Adam is incredibly nice... Wonder if he's a serial killer by day?

I'm mostly nice when I have no reason to be otherwise. Unfortunately am a bit boring Raf and serial killing is definitely not on my daily chores.

Great article mate. I too agree that he is very under rated.

Beats everyone in his way, has come back from adversity earlier in his career and currently looks unbeatable with his skill set and athleticism. Haye was the only hope....and look what happened there. .different leagues.

Same with Povetkin.

AdamT wrote:Louis a far better and more thought of champion for his day. A lethal accurate puncher who was devasting. Unfortunately you can not ignore the fact that he is basically a cruiser going up against a super heavyweight.

He would only have a punchers chance.

Perhaps the greatest heavyweight of all time "basically a cruiser".

It gets better on here.

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Louis a far better and more thought of champion for his day. A lethal accurate puncher who was devasting. Unfortunately you can not ignore the fact that he is basically a cruiser going up against a super heavyweight.

He would only have a punchers chance.

Perhaps the greatest heavyweight of all time "basically a cruiser".

It gets better on here.

He is a cruiser by todays standard. Don't worry mate another reply and I will bow down to your opinion.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Great article mate. I too agree that he is very under rated.

Beats everyone in his way, has come back from adversity earlier in his career and currently looks unbeatable with his skill set and athleticism. Haye was the only hope....and look what happened there.  .different leagues.

Same with Povetkin.

I actually agree with you. I don't think he is the best ever but he is not the roll over everyone thinks he is. He has a glass jaw but not many can find it.

AdamT wrote:

mobilemaster8 wrote:Great article mate. I too agree that he is very under rated.

Beats everyone in his way, has come back from adversity earlier in his career and currently looks unbeatable with his skill set and athleticism. Haye was the only hope....and look what happened there.  .different leagues.

Same with Povetkin.

I actually agree with you. I don't think he is the best ever but he is not the roll over everyone thinks he is. He has a glass jaw but not many can find it.

In this era, yes. The worst era in heavyweight history.

Plenty would have found it in previous generations.

It's weird how Klitschko articles seldom end up being about them

kingraf wrote:It's weird how Klitschko articles seldom end up being about them

Everything turns to Floyd eventually ha

Wasn't a knock on you Adam. It's quite funny to watch sometimes. I was like that here once. Then Martínez started losing his sh.it

Anyway I would like to offically aplogize to Dave for my aggressive answer to his post. He is entitled to his opinion and I shouldn't of been a d..k just having a rather bad day.Sorry!

There's being nice, and then there's apologising to Dave. Adam can please apologise for apologising to Dave.

Not trying to be nice just bit disappointed I reacted. I normally have a high tolerance for any winding up or whatever. If Dave thinks I'm an ars.. licking spinless chap then that is up to him. He doesn't know me but he is entitled to say what he wants long as it is not personal.

Haz, Louis at his best was around 200lbs whereas the best of the 70's guys were around the 215-225lb region, you can't dismiss that usable weight as being insignificant.

We are of course talking about him coming up against the cream in Ali, Foreman, Liston and Frazier where they had the talent, speed and power to go with that added bulk. The four of them in my opinion have the talent to go with the size to overcome Louis' talent.

As far as Wlad goes he doesn't have the ability to beat Louis but those extra 50lbs of bulk could make a difference and they both have the power to get the knockout win but who lands first?

Yip, can't remember an argument which ever led to Dave deserving an apology

See Dave I haven't listened to these guys and stuck to my guns to once and my apology stays. I think I might run my own bath and dress myself from now on. We are making progress

I know how much he weighed. If you insist on using a time machine to make imaginary fights then you'd need to make allowances for improvements to training etc. Louis would undoubtedly have weighed more had he come along in the 70s - the gap would have been negligible.

Klitschko wouldn't throw never mind land. Louis carved Buddy Baer up beautifully - he couldn't miss. Klitschko would be petrified of Joe's power. He'd back-up, hold and panic - and then get knocked out.

hazharrison wrote:I know how much he weighed. If you insist on using a time machine to make imaginary fights then you'd need to make allowances for improvements to training etc. Louis would undoubtedly have weighed more had he come along in the 70s - the gap would have been negligible.

Klitschko wouldn't throw never mind land. Louis carved Buddy Baer up beautifully - he couldn't miss. Klitschko would be petrified of Joe's power. He'd back-up, hold and panic - and then get knocked out.

You rate Tyson and I know you regard Louis higher as an atg. How would you see them head to head at their bests?

You don't make any such allowances, Louis was what he was and Wlad is what he is, you compare them as they are/were not what they could have been. For instance if he'd come along in the 70's he wouldn't have had the great Jack Blackburn training him would he or does he too advance with the times?

I'm not saying that Louis doesn't beat Wlad but coming up against somebody who knows how to use his size wouldn't be straight forward.

AdamT wrote:See Dave I haven't listened to these guys and stuck to my guns to once and my apology stays. I think I might run my own bath and dress myself from now on. We are making progress

... Good for you Adam. 10 out of 10 for bravery by sticking to your position, 0 out of 10 for judgement by sticking to the wrong one

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I know how much he weighed. If you insist on using a time machine to make imaginary fights then you'd need to make allowances for improvements to training etc. Louis would undoubtedly have weighed more had he come along in the 70s - the gap would have been negligible.

Klitschko wouldn't throw never mind land. Louis carved Buddy Baer up beautifully - he couldn't miss. Klitschko would be petrified of Joe's power. He'd back-up, hold and panic - and then get knocked out.

You rate Tyson and I know you regard Louis higher as an atg. How would you see them head to head at their bests?

Pick 'em. In a  battle of punchers it's usually the guy with the best chin who comes out on top. Not even sure who that would be. Great fight, though.

I actually quite enjoy Dave, granted I have been on the recent end of him recently but I do find him genuinely funny. Just having a s..t day and overreacted!

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I know how much he weighed. If you insist on using a time machine to make imaginary fights then you'd need to make allowances for improvements to training etc. Louis would undoubtedly have weighed more had he come along in the 70s - the gap would have been negligible.

Klitschko wouldn't throw never mind land. Louis carved Buddy Baer up beautifully - he couldn't miss. Klitschko would be petrified of Joe's power. He'd back-up, hold and panic - and then get knocked out.

You rate Tyson and I know you regard Louis higher as an atg. How would you see them head to head at their bests?

Pick 'em. In a  battle of punchers it's usually the guy with the best chin who comes out on top. Not even sure who that would be. Great fight, though.

Tysons speed is the difference for me.

Adam...apology accepted dear fellow

Milky/kingraf....f*ck you both...w*nkers!

Haz has (ha ha ha) it right re Louis though. Think Joe's reputation as being a fighter who cuts the ring off nicely has Wlad worried enough to be on the back foot all night long but still think Louis finds a way inside and lands enough short little shots to have Wlad on silly street and then finish him off. "Blah blah blah Haye was bigger and couldn't do it" but then Haye didn't WANT to do it. Say what you like about Louis but he was pretty fearless and I don't think Wlad intimidates him enough for him not to go looking for him

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You don't make any such allowances, Louis was what he was and Wlad is what he is, you compare them as they are/were not what they could have been. For instance if he'd come along in the 70's he wouldn't have had the great Jack Blackburn training him would he or does he too advance with the times?

I'm not saying that Louis doesn't beat Wlad but coming up against somebody who knows how to use his size wouldn't be straight forward.

Ok. So, in imaginary land, Louis just beams in? Is he black and white?

In the same era, privy to the same potions, Louis kills him. Beats the living daylights out of him.

DAVE667 wrote:Adam...apology accepted dear fellow

Milky/kingraf....f*ck you both...w*nkers!

Haz has (ha ha ha) it right re Louis though. Think Joe's reputation as being a fighter who cuts the ring off nicely has Wlad worried enough to be on the back foot all night long but still think Louis finds a way inside and lands enough short little shots to have Wlad on silly street and then finish him off. "Blah blah blah Haye was bigger and couldn't do it" but then Haye didn't WANT to do it. Say what you like about Louis but he was pretty fearless and I don't think Wlad intimidates him enough for him not to go looking for him

I promise not to lick ur a** I will save it for Truss

Tyson has the far better chin, even when getting taken apart by Douglas and Lewis he stood up to some almighty firepower before finally going down.

DAVE667 wrote:Adam...apology accepted dear fellow

Milky/kingraf....f*ck you both...w*nkers!

Haz has (ha ha ha) it right re Louis though. Think Joe's reputation as being a fighter who cuts the ring off nicely has Wlad worried enough to be on the back foot all night long but still think Louis finds a way inside and lands enough short little shots to have Wlad on silly street and then finish him off. "Blah blah blah Haye was bigger and couldn't do it" but then Haye didn't WANT to do it. Say what you like about Louis but he was pretty fearless and I don't think Wlad intimidates him enough for him not to go looking for him

Tony Thompson had Klitschko worried and on the back foot! That's: Tony. Thompson.

AdamT wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Adam...apology accepted dear fellow

Milky/kingraf....f*ck you both...w*nkers!

Haz has (ha ha ha) it right re Louis though. Think Joe's reputation as being a fighter who cuts the ring off nicely has Wlad worried enough to be on the back foot all night long but still think Louis finds a way inside and lands enough short little shots to have Wlad on silly street and then finish him off. "Blah blah blah Haye was bigger and couldn't do it" but then Haye didn't WANT to do it. Say what you like about Louis but he was pretty fearless and I don't think Wlad intimidates him enough for him not to go looking for him

I promise not to lick ur a** I will save it for Truss

It's all gone a bit trouserial on here recently

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You don't make any such allowances, Louis was what he was and Wlad is what he is, you compare them as they are/were not what they could have been. For instance if he'd come along in the 70's he wouldn't have had the great Jack Blackburn training him would he or does he too advance with the times?

I'm not saying that Louis doesn't beat Wlad but coming up against somebody who knows how to use his size wouldn't be straight forward.

Ok. So, in imaginary land, Louis just beams in? Is he black and white?

In the same era, privy to the same potions, Louis kills him. Beats the living daylights out of him.

Those potions don't mean a lot if he hasn't got Blackburn teaching him everything he knows though Haz, how does the added bulk affect his speed, timing and by extension his power.

Sorry Dave

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Tyson has the far better chin, even when getting taken apart by Douglas and Lewis he stood up to some almighty firepower before finally going down.

As did Louis. He took an comparable hiding against Schmeling (he couldn't remember anything past the first couple of rounds).

Great fighters can pull off great results but Louis did that more (Tyson never pulled victory out of the flames of defeat - unless you count his pantomime wrestle with Botha).

OK but can everyone just stop being mean to me. I've done nothing to deserve your ire and it's making me sad

Lets not go comparing the power of the former light heavyweight Schmeling to that of Lewis and Douglas now Haz.

Tiger Tony is 6'5 though, and his reach nearly eight inches longer... Hardly a like for like comparison

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You don't make any such allowances, Louis was what he was and Wlad is what he is, you compare them as they are/were not what they could have been. For instance if he'd come along in the 70's he wouldn't have had the great Jack Blackburn training him would he or does he too advance with the times?

I'm not saying that Louis doesn't beat Wlad but coming up against somebody who knows how to use his size wouldn't be straight forward.

Ok. So, in imaginary land, Louis just beams in? Is he black and white?

In the same era, privy to the same potions, Louis kills him. Beats the living daylights out of him.

Those potions don't mean a lot if he hasn't got Blackburn teaching him everything he knows though Haz, how does the added bulk affect his speed, timing and by extension his power.

Whatever they're on these days allows them to increase bulk without compromising speed. Sothe answer is: it wouldn't.

And I'm sure he'd find someone to outwit Jonathan Banks if you won't let Balckburn into your time machine.