Wales vs Fiji

by Guest Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Moving on from the disappointment of last weekend, here is the team to play Fiji

Wales vs Fiji - Page 4 1503356_10152546399503722_6187521363457770511_n

Wales vs Fiji - Page 4 1503356_10152546399503722_6187521363457770511_n

15. Liam Williams (Scarlets)
14. Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)
13. Scott Williams (Scarlets)
12. Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro)
11. George North (Northampton Saints)
10. Rhys Priestland (Scarlets)
9. Mike Phillips (Racing Metro)
1. Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues, CAPT)
2. Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)
3. Samson Lee (Scarlets)
4. Bradley Davies (Wasps)
5. Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)
6. Dan Lydiate (Unattached)
7. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
8. Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), James King (Ospreys), Rhodri Williams (Scarlets), James Hook (Gloucester), Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues).

by 2ndtimeround Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:49 pm

incase some of you hadn't realised the reason RP played today is Biggar is injured, there was no other option if Garland is to stick to his call that when it is close on a selection then Wales based players will be favoured.

by TJ Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:41 pm

Preistlands work created the overlap for the first try

by **Biltong** Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:44 pm

Just saw the result of this match, not convincing by Wales?

by Guest Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:48 pm

maestegmafia wrote:You guys who thought Priestland had a shocker, Dan Carter has already eclipsed him in Murrayfield in just forty minutes..

Please. That's like comparing a Ferrari you've parked up for a year, to a pushbike

by bedfordwelsh Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:48 pm

Hardly surprising that Priestland is getting slated by some on here was he at fault for a man advantage scrum getting pushed off the ball - NO, was he responsible for a man advantage scrun losing one against the head - NO. Was he responsible for at least 3 throw in going astray - NO.

Yes he gave an intercept but so did Webb (x2) last week and Hook has a rep for giving them. Li Williams and Faletau aside it was an absolute shocking performance across the board, Priestland was no worse than anyone else.

We all said before hand that if we play them at their own game we will come off 2nd best and we were lucky not to.

None of the players that were brought in done anything to warrant selection next week against the ABs and whilst Warburton gets slated for his captaincy what did Jenkins bring to the table?

by TJ Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:00 pm

Preistland also made a good assist on the second try

by Guest Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:11 pm

Priestland also cost one and nearly cost another, plus he was poor off the tee. Whilst I wouldn't boo him or go too critical on him, it's way overboard to praise him for running a loop for the first try (where Doc and Williams had a bigger role) and a miss pass that Jiffy normally hates. Most tens can do them easily.

Whilst it's probably necessary to offer some balance to the criticism he can get, it's a bit jiffy like to build up a few simple things he did today. Just tell it as it is, he wasn't the only player who did not play well, but he was a 5/10 at best today.

by bedfordwelsh Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:13 pm

I'd agree with that Rev but lets be honest he good have orchestrated a fantastic win with a MOTM performance and still would of got slated from some on here.

by **George Carlin** Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:25 pm

I think that Priestland does get quite a rough trot on here - I only saw bits of the match, but he didn't seen to do much wrong. In terms of international performances, I honestly believe that Welsh fans are hardest on, and expect the most from, their 10s than any other group of fans in the world.

That's the problem with having had the likes of Bennett, John, Jiffy et al - if you aren't a sparkling broken field runner, you're almost letting the side down and a bit of a disappointment regardless of how well you do everything else. I thought that Stephen Jones was absolutely outstanding in all facets of the game, but precisely none of my Welsh mates ever agreed with me.

What do we think the problem is with this Welsh side? I would have said (particularly after Scotland's performance tonight) that Wales had a reasonable crack against the All Blacks but after that second half, I'm really not sure any more.

by majesticimperialman Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:12 pm

I have just on bbc sport that Gatland is saying that the Referree's are not favouring Wales at all. Not most of the calls went against Wales.

Surely the crooks of the matter is WALES WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO PUT FIJI AWAY.

IS, that because of the (REFERREE) Or is it simply because that Wales was not good enough to beat the team by a cricket score? doaadsledles have little respect for the teams they play against?

Or is it simply the fact that most days

by glamorganalun Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:27 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I have just on bbc sport that Gatland is saying that the Referree's are not favouring Wales at all. Not most of the calls went against Wales.

Surely the crooks of the matter is WALES WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO PUT FIJI AWAY.

IS, that because of the (REFERREE) Or is it simply because that Wales was not good enough to beat the team by a cricket score? doaadsledles have little respect for the teams they play against?

Or is it simply the fact that most days

Gatland has a point but he should look at himself he picks the team and applies the tactics. I am praying Biggar is fit and Wales field the same side as Aus we should see a much better performance.

by Bluedragon Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:48 pm

Really missed on field leaders today - Warburton, AWJ, Biggar. Some poor decisions from half back and kicking for corner when a scrum against a team with a man in the bin. And playing a loose game almost as if they were 40 points up when they weren't. And loose passes and wonky lineout throws.

Had forgotten how slow at passing mike Phillips is.

No warburton - and wales get murdered at the breakdown. Coincidence ? I don't think so.

campese mafu was rubbish for the Cardiff Blues, they released him mid season. yet he seemed to scrummage really well today and didn't look so fat. whats happened to him ?

Having said that, I thought poor refereeing decisions cost wales two tries. Lydiates rolling maul that was disallowed should have then been a penalty try. would he have scored if the maul hadn't been collapsed ? YES he was arguably an inch short ! and liam williams wasn't held in the tackle.........

by maestegmafia Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:34 am

Risca Rev wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:You guys who thought Priestland had a shocker, Dan Carter has already eclipsed him in Murrayfield in just forty minutes..

Please. That's like comparing a Ferrari you've parked up for a year, to a pushbike

So dan carter misses the same amount of kicks (easier ones than Priestlands touch line jobs), at goal but more points and gives away a few penalties and he's a Ferrari?

Gimme a break...!

We won a crappy and tough match. Hardly anyone played well. It wasn't the game either team wanted, certainly not what anyone expected.

These things happen.

by SecretFly Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:04 am

Well, in truth it does seem that Carter is on a very slow bike back up to AB speed. It's not important he performed today for his coach, only that he played and got some time. He'll be fed back as slowly as he requires because - if fit - he'll be seen as an essential part of the WC squad, have no doubt.

But yeah, I don't think the ABs tried awfully hard against Scotland. Did enough and lived on the edge like only they can manage without falling off it. And I did also say on another thread that perhaps Wales had the same attitude. Do enough, cruise. A few bigger things on the horizon - for both sides.

Let's see what Carter does next...if picked. I wouldn't write him off yet Wink

by **George Carlin** Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:39 am

SecretFly wrote:But yeah, I don't think the ABs tried awfully hard against Scotland. Did enough and lived on the edge like only they can manage without falling off it. And I did also say on another thread that perhaps Wales had the same attitude. Do enough, cruise. A few bigger things on the horizon - for both sides.

Let's see what Carter does next...if picked. I wouldn't write him off yet

Fly - have you been on the Cointreau chocolates again?

The margin between the sides was 1 point until the 85th minute and if Laidlaw had nailed his 70th minute kick for goal, the ABs would have gone into the final ten minutes 2 points down.

You seem to be implying that NZ had control throughout and no SANZAR press that I read this morning agree with you.

Let's see if Wales can keep the margin to 8 points. They might. But I don't think it's a 'gimme'.

by LordDowlais Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:16 am

Yeah, and I hope the All Blacks play the same players next week as they did yesterday...

I have to laugh George, you do realise you still lost don't you, or is this another Scottish moral victory ? That was not a full stregnth New Zealand side either.

by Guest Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:14 am

George Carlin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:But yeah, I don't think the ABs tried awfully hard against Scotland. Did enough and lived on the edge like only they can manage without falling off it. And I did also say on another thread that perhaps Wales had the same attitude. Do enough, cruise. A few bigger things on the horizon - for both sides.

Let's see what Carter does next...if picked. I wouldn't write him off yet
Fly - have you been on the Cointreau chocolates again?

The margin between the sides was 1 point until the 85th minute and if Laidlaw had nailed his 70th minute kick for goal, the ABs would have gone into the final ten minutes 2 points down.

You seem to be implying that NZ had control throughout and no SANZAR press that I read this morning agree with you.

Let's see if you guys can keep the margin to 8 points. You might. But I don't think it's a 'gimme'.

George, you seem to be directing your post to Fly but then say 'see if you can keep the margin to 8'. Who? His team Ireland? They're not playing NZ are they?

by **George Carlin** Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:41 am

LordDowlais wrote:Yeah, and I hope the All Blacks play the same players next week as they did yesterday...

I have to laugh George, you do realise you still lost don't you, or is this another Scottish moral victory ? That was not a full stregnth New Zealand side either.

1. In our last two games against the Blackness, we shipped at least 50 points. I'm no expert on the game, but I think that to finish within 8 is Better.
2. This is a spectacularly inexperienced Scotland team. Half of the squad is under 25 and 7 of the starting 15 had fewer than 10 caps.
3. If Laidlaw had nailed the kick on 70 minutes (the only one he missed all day), then Scotland would have been 2 points ahead at the arse end of the match. We were within 1 point until the 74th minute.
4. This is the coach's second game in charge where he was in control of selection and tactics.
5. I have yet to see an alternative to playing the team that's in front of you.

So yes, the glass is more half full at the moment. Very Happy

by Seagultaf Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:04 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:Hardly surprising that Priestland is getting slated by some on here was he at fault for a man advantage scrum getting pushed off the ball - NO, was he responsible for a man advantage scrun losing one against the head - NO. Was he responsible for at least 3 throw in going astray - NO.

Yes he gave an intercept but so did Webb (x2) last week and Hook has a rep for giving them. Li Williams and Faletau aside it was an absolute shocking performance across the board, Priestland was no worse than anyone else.

We all said before hand that if we play them at their own game we will come off 2nd best and we were lucky not to.

None of the players that were brought in done anything to warrant selection next week against the ABs and whilst Warburton gets slated for his captaincy what did Jenkins bring to the table?

I totally agree, Priestland was no worse than many of Wales star players who will be amongst the first names on the team sheet for next week's game. Yes he fumbled the ball, but yesterday, who didn't? He threw an interception but so did Webb (times 2) last week and how many people are calling for him to be dropped? On the positive he kicked well from hand, distributed well and had a major part on one try and created another.

Wales struggled because the forwards did not front up in the tight, leaving the back to attack behing the gainline with a rush defence in their faces. THe problem which I struggle to understand is the number of fumbles and turnovers, what was that all about? Also the scrums and lineouts went to pieces, Baldwin has impressed me this season but by the end of the game he couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo. Why wasn't Emyr Phillips brought on?

Finally yet again Wales had a rough deal from the officials, whats the point of TV replays if the officials still make the wrong calls, its ruining the game.

by TJ Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:06 am

LordDowlais wrote:Yeah, and I hope the All Blacks play the same players next week as they did yesterday...

I have to laugh George, you do realise you still lost don't you, or is this another Scottish moral victory ? That was not a full stregnth New Zealand side either.

No - we are not calling this a moral victory at all. NO one has suggested Scotland were the better team or were robbed. We were second best all day but at last we wer competative - its been a while since Scotland were. While it was not the very best team NZ can put out the skill speed and precision of their game is still head and shoulders above anything we have seen from the NH teams this year. NZ did need to bring their experienced players off the bench to put scotland away.

by TJ Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:07 am

Back to Preistland - its very difficult for a ten to shine with the woefully slow service Phillips provides. He really is glacial

by **George Carlin** Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:15 am

TJ wrote:Back to Preistland - its very difficult for a ten to shine with the woefully slow service Phillips provides. He really is glacial

I'm not going to get back on my Mickey Phil soapbox or I'll have to pre-emptively ban myself, but I'll just say that after watching Rhys Webb in Wales colours, I cannot think of a single reason why Wales fans would ever want Philips. He looks great when the pack are giving him an armchair ride, but in the really big games and against good opposition when broken play ball is scarce and your offensive line is being put under pressure, you just need to get the bloody thing away and let your 10 manage the game. MP simply cannot do this and I agree with TJ, it must be a nightmare to play alongside.

Valium. Lie down.

by SecretFly Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:42 am

George Carlin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:But yeah, I don't think the ABs tried awfully hard against Scotland. Did enough and lived on the edge like only they can manage without falling off it. And I did also say on another thread that perhaps Wales had the same attitude. Do enough, cruise. A few bigger things on the horizon - for both sides.

Let's see what Carter does next...if picked. I wouldn't write him off yet
Fly - have you been on the Cointreau chocolates again?

The margin between the sides was 1 point until the 85th minute and if Laidlaw had nailed his 70th minute kick for goal, the ABs would have gone into the final ten minutes 2 points down.

You seem to be implying that NZ had control throughout and no SANZAR press that I read this morning agree with you.

Let's see if Wales can keep the margin to 8 points. They might. But I don't think it's a 'gimme'.

Not meant as an insult at all, George. Not my line of work. I only say things I mean...and I've said it often enough about Ireland. I'm not talking about how Scotland played. I'm talking about the game NZ came to play with the side it chose and my observance of them now for a good many years.

Scotland could very well have won the game. No doubt. Ireland too could have won their second game of three in New Zealand. New Zealand didn't KNOW they were going to win either game

BUT...they trusted themselves enough to expect to slide past Scotland in the end-game...and that's what they did. They didn't come to Murrayfield to turn on the afterburners from the get go and race into an unassailable lead. That's New Zealand I'm talking about - their attitudes, their plan. I'm not casting any aspersions on what Scotland chose to do. Scotland played the team in front of them (all any team can do) and came close to winning.
But New Zealand came to canter win if possible. They played it close but it's more than luck that keeps them snaking there in close games at the end. It's more than luck. It's a perfect inner belief.

So I repeat, Ireland could very well have beaten the ABs in their second of three games in New Zealand. But there wasn't a hope in bloody hell of winning the third one - when the ABs came to actually play their MAX version with chrome trimmings and furry dice Wink

I know my opinions can often vary from the mainstream. But there you go. I'm honest in them.

by **George Carlin** Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:45 am

SecretFly wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:But yeah, I don't think the ABs tried awfully hard against Scotland. Did enough and lived on the edge like only they can manage without falling off it. And I did also say on another thread that perhaps Wales had the same attitude. Do enough, cruise. A few bigger things on the horizon - for both sides.

Let's see what Carter does next...if picked. I wouldn't write him off yet
Fly - have you been on the Cointreau chocolates again?

The margin between the sides was 1 point until the 85th minute and if Laidlaw had nailed his 70th minute kick for goal, the ABs would have gone into the final ten minutes 2 points down.

You seem to be implying that NZ had control throughout and no SANZAR press that I read this morning agree with you.

Let's see if Wales can keep the margin to 8 points. They might. But I don't think it's a 'gimme'.

So I repeat, Ireland could very well have beaten the ABs in their second of three games in New Zealand. But there wasn't a hope in bloody hell of winning the third one - when the ABs came to actually play their MAX version with chrome trimmings and furry dice

by The Saint Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:01 pm

maestegmafia wrote:You guys who thought Priestland had a shocker, Dan Carter has already eclipsed him in Murrayfield in just forty minutes..

Jeez you really are getting desperate now. And you were slagging Carter and Hansen off on another thread recently, that's not the positive chat you like to make us think you produce.

by welshy824 (new) Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:11 pm

I am fed up of this priestland abuse, when outside him he didn't have many options, combined with a slow service from phillips and the forwards not doing the basics.
I thought in the first 20 minutes he played very well, he attacked the gainline very well and was instrumental in the first two tries, he played with confidence. Yes he missed the two conversion, however they were both difficult kicks to make, one being on the wrong side for a right footed kicker. However after this the whole team seemed to think it was in the bag, we stopped dominating the collisions and players seem to be thinking past the basics of taking the ball correctly and as a result spilling it. Also numerous times in the second half priestland had to take the ball into contact as he had no options outside him.

The ref was shocking too, being very picky on straight lineout throws but then ignoring the mess at the breakdown. He had no heart for the flow of the game and the disallowed tries (1 was debatable but the other was fine) and also another penalty try he missed.

However on a slightly different note has anyone else noticed a slight change to the game plan, we suddenly don't seem to be playing the bish bash bosh approach as much, and have seen Jamie Roberts making passes and even stepping! I am not too worried at the moment, I think gatland is a very clever operator despite what people say about him, and I think he will have a few surprises come the world cup just like last time. Also at the end of the day the result was never really in doubt, at no time at the game did I think oh dear we could lose this.

by majesticimperialman Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:55 pm

Also at the end of the day the result was never really in doubt, at no time at the game did I think oh dear we could lose this.

you must of been the only one in the country then.

When Fiji scored in the second half, i thought Fiji may just win this.

by Guest Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:11 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Also at the end of the day the result was never really in doubt, at no time at the game did I think oh dear we could lose this.

you must of been the only one in the country then.

When Fiji scored in the second half, i thought Fiji may just win this.

Why weren't you watching your own country? Bit of a poor show.

Also, they didn't score till late on so no real danger of Wales losing from there. Don't really get where you're coming from with that.

by maestegmafia Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:55 pm

The Saint wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:You guys who thought Priestland had a shocker, Dan Carter has already eclipsed him in Murrayfield in just forty minutes..

Jeez you really are getting desperate now. And you were slagging Carter and Hansen off on another thread recently, that's not the positive chat you like to make us think you produce.

You'll have to explain that post, it looks more like a personal attack on me than a comment on rugby.

by welshy824 (new) Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:34 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Also at the end of the day the result was never really in doubt, at no time at the game did I think oh dear we could lose this.

you must of been the only one in the country then.

When Fiji scored in the second half, i thought Fiji may just win this.

i guess we had difference of opinion, I mean Fiji threatened the line a few times but it was wales who was dictating the play and the mistakes too unfortunately, I guess there was a bit of apprehension in the last 2 minutes after the try but it was too late and it was against the run of play overall, I think the scoreline showed it was a scrappy game but didn't show the fact that wales were the dominant team, although I guess the non-given penalty try and the two disallowed tries made it look closer than it was. Like Gats said it was almost potentially a blow out but those decision (whether they were right or not) caused it to be a dog fight

by majesticimperialman Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:08 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Also at the end of the day the result was never really in doubt, at no time at the game did I think oh dear we could lose this.

you must of been the only one in the country then.

When Fiji scored in the second half, i thought Fiji may just win this.

Why weren't you watching your own country? Bit of a poor show.

Also, they didn't score till late on so no real danger of Wales losing from there. Don't really get where you're coming from with that.

I was watching my own country. I taped the Wales v Fiji game and watched after wards.

by Seagultaf Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:10 pm

welshy824 (new) wrote:I am fed up of this priestland abuse, when outside him he didn't have many options, combined with a slow service from phillips and the forwards not doing the basics.
I thought in the first 20 minutes he played very well, he attacked the gainline very well and was instrumental in the first two tries, he played with confidence. Yes he missed the two conversion, however they were both difficult kicks to make, one being on the wrong side for a right footed kicker. However after this the whole team seemed to think it was in the bag, we stopped dominating the collisions and players seem to be thinking past the basics of taking the ball correctly and as a result spilling it. Also numerous times in the second half priestland had to take the ball into contact as he had no options outside him.

The ref was shocking too, being very picky on straight lineout throws but then ignoring the mess at the breakdown. He had no heart for the flow of the game and the disallowed tries (1 was debatable but the other was fine) and also another penalty try he missed.

However on a slightly different note has anyone else noticed a slight change to the game plan, we suddenly don't seem to be playing the bish bash bosh approach as much, and have seen Jamie Roberts making passes and even stepping! I am not too worried at the moment, I think gatland is a very clever operator despite what people say about him, and I think he will have a few surprises come the world cup just like last time. Also at the end of the day the result was never really in doubt, at no time at the game did I think oh dear we could lose this.

Good post Welshy, it anoys me when the no 10 allways seems to get blamed when Wales play poorly. Priestand started well yesterday but struggled as the Welsh forwards and the backs around him started to lose interest. I am really thankful that Hook did not come on as the last thing Wales needed yesterday was his loose sevens style game. As far as kicking penalty goals, I suspect that this is a Gatland ploy as in the last 2 games Wales have kicked for the corner rather than goal.

by Guest Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:37 pm

I guess it doesn't help if everyone starts throwing the ball around like they're messing around in the park, leadership was clearly missing.

by The Saint Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:35 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
The Saint wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:You guys who thought Priestland had a shocker, Dan Carter has already eclipsed him in Murrayfield in just forty minutes..

Jeez you really are getting desperate now. And you were slagging Carter and Hansen off on another thread recently, that's not the positive chat you like to make us think you produce.

You'll have to explain that post, it looks more like a personal attack on me than a comment on rugby.

I don't think it needs an explanation does it. After your crap comments that totally missed the point yesterday, you come out with this tripe. Lately when someone questions Gatland or RP you seem to be trying to drag down Hansen and Carter. And even it was a substantial point (which it wasn't) it's no good saying "Priestland played poorly but that's okay because tom, dikk and harry did too!" It's getting boring reading comments about other players performances because some can't seem to accept the truth.

I've said time and again that RP wasn't to blame for yesterday's game, but 9 and 10 especially played a big role. It's also one of many games that proves to me RP can't play at this level. You just can't have an erratic, error-strewn 10 in today's game.

by glamorganalun Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:05 pm

The Saint wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
The Saint wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:You guys who thought Priestland had a shocker, Dan Carter has already eclipsed him in Murrayfield in just forty minutes..

Jeez you really are getting desperate now. And you were slagging Carter and Hansen off on another thread recently, that's not the positive chat you like to make us think you produce.

You'll have to explain that post, it looks more like a personal attack on me than a comment on rugby.

I don't think it needs an explanation does it. After your crap comments that totally missed the point yesterday, you come out with this tripe. Lately when someone questions Gatland or RP you seem to be trying to drag down Hansen and Carter. And even it was a substantial point (which it wasn't) it's no good saying "Priestland played poorly but that's okay because tom, dikk and harry did too!" It's getting boring reading comments about other players performances because some can't seem to accept the truth.

I've said time and again that RP wasn't to blame for yesterday's game, but 9 and 10 especially played a big role. It's also one of many games that proves to me RP can't play at this level. You just can't have an erratic, error-strewn 10 in today's game.

+1 well said

by Welly Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:40 pm

TJ wrote:Back to Preistland - its very difficult for a ten to shine with the woefully slow service Phillips provides. He really is glacial

O.Williams has been playing with Ben Youngs so he should be use to it. Very Happy

FYI he played well had one bad miss but was cool in the final kick that drew the game in the play of the game, despite the crap weather.

On attack nothing much happened on both teams although he was missing our main attacking players in Goneva and Manu, in Defence he was rock solid stopping a sarries unit who has scored at least 1 try in their last 16 league games from getting anywhere near the Try line.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-fly-half-Owen-Williams-praised/story-24542038-detail/story.html

by Cardiff Dave Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:49 pm

Need new coaching staff and the Hibbard doo-dah is incredible.

by glamorganalun Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:52 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:Need new coaching staff and the Hibbard doo-dah is incredible.

+1 Add to that blaming bad ref etc, yes ref, tmo and the Irish touch judge were crap but the team were poor which the coaches need looking at fast!

by ChequeredJersey Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:But yeah, I don't think the ABs tried awfully hard against Scotland. Did enough and lived on the edge like only they can manage without falling off it. And I did also say on another thread that perhaps Wales had the same attitude. Do enough, cruise. A few bigger things on the horizon - for both sides.

Let's see what Carter does next...if picked. I wouldn't write him off yet
Fly - have you been on the Cointreau chocolates again?

The margin between the sides was 1 point until the 85th minute and if Laidlaw had nailed his 70th minute kick for goal, the ABs would have gone into the final ten minutes 2 points down.

You seem to be implying that NZ had control throughout and no SANZAR press that I read this morning agree with you.

Let's see if Wales can keep the margin to 8 points. They might. But I don't think it's a 'gimme'.

Not meant as an insult at all, George. Not my line of work. I only say things I mean...and I've said it often enough about Ireland. I'm not talking about how Scotland played. I'm talking about the game NZ came to play with the side it chose and my observance of them now for a good many years.

Scotland could very well have won the game. No doubt. Ireland too could have won their second game of three in New Zealand. New Zealand didn't KNOW they were going to win either game

BUT...they trusted themselves enough to expect to slide past Scotland in the end-game...and that's what they did. They didn't come to Murrayfield to turn on the afterburners from the get go and race into an unassailable lead. That's New Zealand I'm talking about - their attitudes, their plan. I'm not casting any aspersions on what Scotland chose to do. Scotland played the team in front of them (all any team can do) and came close to winning.
But New Zealand came to canter win if possible. They played it close but it's more than luck that keeps them snaking there in close games at the end. It's more than luck. It's a perfect inner belief.

So I repeat, Ireland could very well have beaten the ABs in their second of three games in New Zealand. But there wasn't a hope in bloody hell of winning the third one - when the ABs came to actually play their MAX version with chrome trimmings and furry dice

I know my opinions can often vary from the mainstream. But there you go. I'm honest in them.

New Zealand are geniuses at scraping their way through games that it seems they might lose. Did it to England in the 1st test of our tour, to Aus this RC, to Ireland last year. They just know that if they focus they will win and so they don't panic

by Cardiff Dave Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:46 pm

glamorganalun wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Need new coaching staff and the Hibbard doo-dah is incredible.

+1 Add to that blaming bad ref etc, yes ref, tmo and the Irish touch judge were crap but the team were poor which the coaches need looking at fast!

Hate the TMO. Let the ref and his helpers with their feet on the pitch decide, right or wrong.

by Taylorman Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:57 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:But yeah, I don't think the ABs tried awfully hard against Scotland. Did enough and lived on the edge like only they can manage without falling off it. And I did also say on another thread that perhaps Wales had the same attitude. Do enough, cruise. A few bigger things on the horizon - for both sides.

Let's see what Carter does next...if picked. I wouldn't write him off yet
Fly - have you been on the Cointreau chocolates again?

The margin between the sides was 1 point until the 85th minute and if Laidlaw had nailed his 70th minute kick for goal, the ABs would have gone into the final ten minutes 2 points down.

You seem to be implying that NZ had control throughout and no SANZAR press that I read this morning agree with you.

Let's see if Wales can keep the margin to 8 points. They might. But I don't think it's a 'gimme'.

Not meant as an insult at all, George. Not my line of work. I only say things I mean...and I've said it often enough about Ireland. I'm not talking about how Scotland played. I'm talking about the game NZ came to play with the side it chose and my observance of them now for a good many years.

Scotland could very well have won the game. No doubt. Ireland too could have won their second game of three in New Zealand. New Zealand didn't KNOW they were going to win either game

BUT...they trusted themselves enough to expect to slide past Scotland in the end-game...and that's what they did. They didn't come to Murrayfield to turn on the afterburners from the get go and race into an unassailable lead. That's New Zealand I'm talking about - their attitudes, their plan. I'm not casting any aspersions on what Scotland chose to do. Scotland played the team in front of them (all any team can do) and came close to winning.
But New Zealand came to canter win if possible. They played it close but it's more than luck that keeps them snaking there in close games at the end. It's more than luck. It's a perfect inner belief.

So I repeat, Ireland could very well have beaten the ABs in their second of three games in New Zealand. But there wasn't a hope in bloody hell of winning the third one - when the ABs came to actually play their MAX version with chrome trimmings and furry dice

I know my opinions can often vary from the mainstream. But there you go. I'm honest in them.

New Zealand are geniuses at scraping their way through games that it seems they might lose. Did it to England in the 1st test of our tour, to Aus this RC, to Ireland last year. They just know that if they focus they will win and so they don't panic

NZ came to canter win if possible? Weren't trying?

The match, as Hansen has clearly stated, was to offer as many players as possible on the fringe of selection the experience of needing to front up to test match atmosphere. the squad may have to bat down to 40 players to get across the line next year and with those players there will be very few opportunities to do that. By throwing them all in the deep end they knew they would be tested by the improving Scottish side and would need to dig deep to come out on top.

Hansen said there were more benefits in doing this than putting up the best side ( for a perhaps easier win) and allowing bad habits to come from it- complacency in later matches being one. he knew this Scottish side would test them to their limits and they did.

So the very things you are accusing NZ and Hansen of doing are the very things he was trying to avoid- having an easier run, complacency etc and wanted to put a side out that knew it could not afford to be complacent.

These aren't called 'tests' for nothing, and Hansen has shown huge initiative in getting the most out of this 'test' from an AB perspective. Sure other sides aren't in too great a position to do the same but that doesnt retract from having a plan.

by Hound of Harrow Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:57 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Not a bad result for Fiji given the players they are STILL missing but are lining up fir their top14 clubs.

Err...there were no T14 fixtures at the weekend, and none next weekend. The T14 resumes after this IRB window on 29th.

If the French clubs are refusing to release them that's something else, but they certainly aren't playing atm.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:15 am

I bought the Western Fail today (I know I know) and I think I must be coming down with something as I agreed with a lot of what Andy Howells had to say.

He said we lacked leadership - I agree what did Jenkins bring to the table

He said Jenkins and Phillips must step aside - Again I agree and Webb and James must start

Didnt agree though that it was crazy to snub Hook, Rh Williams yes Hook no. Phillips service was poor and slow (no surpise) least Williams would have speeded up that facet of the game.

He said Hook is a brilliant broken field runner, which he is but that's not the game plan against the Fijis, even though that's how we played and with Hook on there would still be a very high chance of an intercept.

by SecretFly Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:16 am

Taylorman wrote:
NZ came to canter win if possible? Weren't trying?

The match, as Hansen has clearly stated, was to offer as many players as possible on the fringe of selection the experience of needing to front up to test match atmosphere. the squad may have to bat down to 40 players to get across the line next year and with those players there will be very few opportunities to do that. By throwing them all in the deep end they knew they would be tested by the improving Scottish side and would need to dig deep to come out on top.

Hansen said there were more benefits in doing this than putting up the best side ( for a perhaps easier win) and allowing bad habits to come from it- complacency in later matches being one. he knew this Scottish side would test them to their limits and they did.

So the very things you are accusing NZ and Hansen of doing are the very things he was trying to avoid- having an easier run, complacency etc and wanted to put a side out that knew it could not afford to be complacent.

These aren't called 'tests' for nothing, and Hansen has shown huge initiative in getting the most out of this 'test' from an AB perspective. Sure other sides aren't in too great a position to do the same but that doesnt retract from having a plan.

Thanks Hansen. All he does is confirm the truth.
New Zealand (the management) didn't go to Scotland to do a hatchet job on Scotland. You and Hanson call it testing and I'll call it a signal that testing wasn't designed to be a Hatchet job. Had they seriously wanted to kill off Scotland, they would have put main troops on and played at top speed tempo. They didn't. Yes Hanson was testing.
But it proves that they weren't intending to push Scotland off the field, which is in totality the only point I was making - and yes, doing so would have been a useless 'test' anyway.

by gavstar Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:32 pm

yes Bedford, gareth Thomas on scrum5 said hooky should have been on. jiffy who usually cant wait to push hooky forward, tried to say the game was already broken up ,needed the opposite and obviously the management didn't think hook could do that. jiffy was almost cut off mid sentence by ross harries as he jumped from his seat saying they were running out of time, obviously a shout in his earpiece to avoid any negative hook comments, yet they found more time in a manufactured conversation with Xavier rush. this programme like the wmail (barry john) keep throwing hooks hat in the ring. keeping him in the frame when by now we should have brought through another up and coming player at 10. biggar has had a monumental struggle to be recognised, and they wont drop priest.

by TJ Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:35 pm

Taylorman wrote:

NZ came to canter win if possible? Weren't trying?

The match, as Hansen has clearly stated, was to offer as many players as possible on the fringe of selection the experience of needing to front up to test match atmosphere. the squad may have to bat down to 40 players to get across the line next year and with those players there will be very few opportunities to do that. By throwing them all in the deep end they knew they would be tested by the improving Scottish side and would need to dig deep to come out on top.

Hansen said there were more benefits in doing this than putting up the best side ( for a perhaps easier win) and allowing bad habits to come from it- complacency in later matches being one. he knew this Scottish side would test them to their limits and they did.

So the very things you are accusing NZ and Hansen of doing are the very things he was trying to avoid- having an easier run, complacency etc and wanted to put a side out that knew it could not afford to be complacent.

These aren't called 'tests' for nothing, and Hansen has shown huge initiative in getting the most out of this 'test' from an AB perspective. Sure other sides aren't in too great a position to do the same but that doesnt retract from having a plan.

Well said.

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