Scotland v Tonga, 22 November

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Scotland v Tonga

Date: Saturday, November 22
Venue: Rugby Park, Kilmarnock
Kickoff: 14:30 local (GMT)
Referee: JP Doyle (Ingerlund)
Assistant Referees: ?
TMO: Gareth Simmonds ?

Autumn tests so far

Scotland 41 - Argentina 31
Scotland 16 - New Zealand 24

Tonga 40 - USA 12
Georgia 9 - Tonga 23

Teams

Scotland

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); 26 caps
14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors); 12 caps
13 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors); 90 caps
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors); 3 tries
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby); 14 caps

10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors); 4 caps
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester); 33 caps

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby); 38 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby); 79 caps
3 Geoff Cross (London Irish); 34 caps
4 Richie Gray (Castres); 41 caps
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors); 7 caps
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors); 9 caps
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish); 5 caps
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres); 33 caps

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors); 2caps
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors); 5 caps
18 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors); 18 caps
19 Kieran Low (London Irish); 4 caps
20 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan); 41 caps
21 Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks); 69 caps
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors); 17 caps
23 Duncan Taylor (Saracens); 11 caps

Tonga  


[TBC]

alive555 wrote:My only gripe with denton is he tends to drift sideways as opposed to strauss who just runs straight  

By the way can Ashe play flanker ?

If you ask Scott Johnson, yes... 

But then again, according to SJ, he can also play wing.

Why doesn't Denton seem to realise that there is no easy way back for him into the Scotland squad? To my mind, he is at least third choice blindside behind Harley and Kellybrows and third choice 8 (behind Beattie and Ashe) and this is even before Mr Joshua Strauss comes into the picture next summer.

It's almost certainly not fair because I don't know Denton and have only ever seen him interviewed twice, but in print he really does seem to come across as finding himself bloody marvellous. Show ponies don't seem to be Cotter's pint of Speight, however, so he's going to have to really put the work in to get back in favour.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Surely coaches will know this too, so I'd be flabbergasted if they weren't trying to coach it into his game.

They were trying to coach it into his game at U20s and when he was first at Edinburgh but just doesn't seem to have improved a great deal. For someone his size he does knock on a fair bit when taking the ball into contact.

Was interesting though that Denton was called onto the bench as 2nd row cover instead of a recall for Hamilton. Is that a sign that Cotter wont be picking him again?

I thought that was more because swinson pulled out late and Hamilton had already been sent back to sarries

He's certainly not a 2nd row

George Carlin wrote:

alive555 wrote:My only gripe with denton is he tends to drift sideways as opposed to strauss who just runs straight  

By the way can Ashe play flanker ?

If you ask Scott Johnson, yes... 

But then again, according to SJ, he can also play wing.

Why doesn't Denton seem to realise that there is no easy way back for him into the Scotland squad? To my mind, he is at least third choice blindside behind Harley and Kellybrows and third choice 8 (behind Beattie and Ashe) and this is even before Mr Joshua Strauss comes into the picture next summer.

It's almost certainly not fair because I don't know Denton and have only ever seen him interviewed twice, but in print he really does seem to come across as finding himself bloody marvellous. Show ponies don't seem to be Cotter's pint of Speight, however, so he's going to have to really put the work in to get back in favour.

The whole Beattie thing is baffling. He hasn't played well for Scotland since 2010, yet he is before Denton who was a contender for 6N player of the tournament last year.

Granted he seems like an arrogant naughty naughty boy.

Mike Tindal is a midget naughty naughty boy.....

yeah that's what I thought happened too.

[quote="George Carlin"][quote="alive555"]My only gripe with denton is he tends to drift sideways as opposed to strauss who just runs straight  

[b]By the way can Ashe play flanker ?[/b][/quote]
If you ask Scott Johnson, yes... 

But then again, according to SJ, he can also play wing.

Why doesn't Denton seem to realise that there is no easy way back for him into the Scotland squad? To my mind, he is at least third choice blindside behind Harley and Kellybrows and third choice 8 (behind Beattie and Ashe) and this is even before Mr Joshua Strauss comes into the picture next summer.

It's almost certainly not fair because I don't know Denton and have only ever seen him interviewed twice, but in print he really does seem to come across as finding himself bloody marvellous. Show ponies don't seem to be Cotter's pint of Speight, however, so he's going to have to really put the work in to get back in favour.[/quote]

So in wc who is the back row ? with Strauss / Ashe at 8, Dents nowhere ? Cant have 3 8s

I'd put Beattie and Denton pretty much par against each other. I'd start with Beattie against Tonga and probably use Denton off the bench, purely because Denton is coming back from injury.

In terms of throwing himself head first into the contact area, and sheer athleticim, Denton is excellent. His key weaknesses, as noted above, are ball handling and the top two inches. By the latter I mean that he doesn't play clever. If you look at the best 8's in the world, Parisse and Read (or going back, Dean Richards or Zinzan Brooke), they play smart to make a difference. They have a sixth sense of where the ball will go and anticipate the play. They also tend to do what's required to make yards, whether that's purely a physical matter of smashing someone out of the way, or making that small adjustment to body angle or pace to wriggle and extra metre or so. In looking always to keep the ball alive they also commit more defenders to the contact area. It's these more subtle aspects that Denton needs to look at. Beattie is possibly more adept in this area, albeit I think Denton is the more athletic and physical player of the two.

World Cup back-row according to fES:

6. Harley and Brown
7. Cowan [and Barclay if you take 6 back row players]
8. Strauss and Denton

funnyExiledScot wrote:World Cup back-row according to fES:

6. Harley and Brown
7. Cowan [and Barclay if you take 6 back row players]
8. Strauss and Denton

^ Agree.

We've always had an excellent backrow unit. Can't see it changing on the way to the RWC.

Majestic83 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Surely coaches will know this too, so I'd be flabbergasted if they weren't trying to coach it into his game.

They were trying to coach it into his game at U20s and when he was first at Edinburgh but just doesn't seem to have improved a great deal. For someone his size he does knock on a fair bit when taking the ball into contact.

Was interesting though that Denton was called onto the bench as 2nd row cover instead of a recall for Hamilton. Is that a sign that Cotter wont be picking him again?

I'd just add he knocks on quite a lot when not taking the ball into contact also.  Probably comes back to the point you (I think it was you) made earlier about him having to walk round with a ball at u20s.  I don't think he is that good with the ball in general, either holding on to it or passing it.  The key to his game is that he is big and reasonably powerful.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:World Cup back-row according to fES:

6. Harley and Brown
7. Cowan [and Barclay if you take 6 back row players]
8. Strauss and Denton

^ Agree.

We've always had an excellent backrow unit. Can't see it changing on the way to the RWC.

Personally I would take Beattie if fit and getting a run of games over Denton. Beattie hasn't played in recent weeks for castres due to injury and suspension but the games he has played he has performed well and his carrying has been effective.
His ball carrying in the 2013 6 nations was very strong in particular the game against England when he put numerous opposition on their backsides. I think he is the better overall number 8 at the moment ahead of Dention.
Where though will Adam Ashe come into the mix. Cotter obviously rates him so will be in the mix but he doesn't start regularly at Glasgow yet! I think the 6 and 7 options are the correct ones though for the world cup.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:World Cup back-row according to fES:

6. Harley and Brown
7. Cowan [and Barclay if you take 6 back row players]
8. Strauss and Denton

^ Agree.

We've always had an excellent backrow unit. Can't see it changing on the way to the RWC.

John Barclay is going to have to have a good deal of make-up sex with Uncle Vern between now and next summer for that to happen.

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but Guscott's latest BBC article actually has a glowing endorsement of Scotland's performance. Somehow he managed to pay Scotland a compliment or two - must have been hard for him to put his loathing aside.

England errors frustrate but Scotland shine

Jerry Guscott wrote: I was not just entertained by the game at Murrayfield, as a neutral I found it enthralling.

There were simple little touches, like at the breakdown Grieg Laidlaw would pass to a forward but they might then move it on two or three phases further out from the breakdown.

New Zealand do that sort of thing as a matter of course, but tell me a northern hemisphere side that does that.

To see a side from the home nations do that both frequently and comfortably was refreshing.

I think this is one of the signs of the End Times.

Majestic83 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:World Cup back-row according to fES:

6. Harley and Brown
7. Cowan [and Barclay if you take 6 back row players]
8. Strauss and Denton

^ Agree.

We've always had an excellent backrow unit. Can't see it changing on the way to the RWC.

Personally I would take Beattie if fit and getting a run of games over Denton. Beattie hasn't played in recent weeks for castres due to injury and suspension but the games he has played he has performed well and his carrying has been effective.
His ball carrying in the 2013 6 nations was very strong in particular the game against England when he put numerous opposition on their backsides. I think he is the better overall number 8 at the moment ahead of Dention.
Where though will Adam Ashe come into the mix. Cotter obviously rates him so will be in the mix but he doesn't start regularly at Glasgow yet! I think the 6 and 7 options are the correct ones though for the world cup.

That would be the one where he ran side to side carrying the ball in one hand while making less yardage than Morgan who was only on the pitch for half the match?

Dont get me wrong Beattie is a fine player, its just that he was more eye catching than effective in that game

madmaccas wrote:I'm sure this has been mentioned, but Guscott's latest BBC article actually has a glowing endorsement of Scotland's performance. Somehow he managed to pay Scotland a compliment or two - must have been hard for him to put his loathing aside.

England errors frustrate but Scotland shine

Jerry Guscott wrote: I was not just entertained by the game at Murrayfield, as a neutral I found it enthralling.

There were simple little touches, like at the breakdown Grieg Laidlaw would pass to a forward but they might then move it on two or three phases further out from the breakdown.

New Zealand do that sort of thing as a matter of course, but tell me a northern hemisphere side that does that.

To see a side from the home nations do that both frequently and comfortably was refreshing.

I think this is one of the signs of the End Times.

Feck me with a golf umbrella.

Anything to avoid another Richie Gray 'Bambi On Ice-Gate', eh Jezzabel?

lostinwales wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:World Cup back-row according to fES:

6. Harley and Brown
7. Cowan [and Barclay if you take 6 back row players]
8. Strauss and Denton

^ Agree.

We've always had an excellent backrow unit. Can't see it changing on the way to the RWC.

Personally I would take Beattie if fit and getting a run of games over Denton. Beattie hasn't played in recent weeks for castres due to injury and suspension but the games he has played he has performed well and his carrying has been effective.
His ball carrying in the 2013 6 nations was very strong in particular the game against England when he put numerous opposition on their backsides. I think he is the better overall number 8 at the moment ahead of Dention.
Where though will Adam Ashe come into the mix. Cotter obviously rates him so will be in the mix but he doesn't start regularly at Glasgow yet! I think the 6 and 7 options are the correct ones though for the world cup.

That would be the one where he ran side to side carrying the ball in one hand while making less yardage than Morgan who was only on the pitch for half the match?

Dont get me wrong Beattie is a fine player, its just that he was more eye catching than effective in that game

That's kind of what I saw too, glad someone else saw it. Definitly style over substance.

Someone with less to do than me should probably go through the stats and compare the 2....

GC? RDW (if you are bored of wedding fares)?

funnyExiledScot wrote:World Cup back-row according to fES:

6. Harley and Brown
7. Cowan [and Barclay if you take 6 back row players]
8. Strauss and Denton

Of course we might see;
6. Harley and Strauss
7. Cowan and Barclay
8. Denton and Strauss
The thing about the bearded one is he can play 6, 7 or 8. However, as ASBO explained to me over several beers one evening Harley at 6 gives you another option at lineout time. Bluto may not be a jackalling 7 but against teams like the Boks bulk and aggression may be called for rather than guile and mobility. As for no.8, Ashe, Beattie and Ryan Wilson will all probably feel they have a case to make. We just don't have enough games to try out the various combinations.
It has just occurred to me that we could go into the tournament leaving Kellybrows-Dozer- Rennie sitting on their respective sofas.

Bennett ruled out for 12 weeks.

Baws.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bennett ruled out for 12 weeks.

Baws.

I thought it was hamstring

Best joke I've heard on here in a while! Not that that's much of a statement...

Glasgow update said that Bennett is out for 12 weeks which is a real shame, probably miss the entire 6 Nations.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Best joke I've heard on here in a while! Not that that's much of a statement...

Glad you liked it, I was worried it was "too soon"

funnyExiledScot wrote:
In terms of throwing himself head first into the contact area, and sheer athleticim, Denton is excellent.

What is this blasphamy? Denton! Contact area! Throwing himself in!!!

The only contact he makes is when he is being easily tackled as he won't/can't pass. If he is not carrying the ball then Denton is normally standing 20 yards away , flicking his hair while waiting for the moment when he can be picked up by the camera!

Denton is more Steve Walsh than he is Scott Murray

I really don't get this massive dislike of David Denton or really understand what he's done wrong to warrant these low opinions. Sure, he is not the complete number 8 and has weaknesses to his game, but he's a pretty damn good player for Scotland to have at our disposal, and I've certainly never had the impression having watched him numerous times for Edinburgh that he's a shirker. I certainly do not think he fails in comparison to Ryan Wilson and Adam Ashe (not yet anyway) nor frankly Johnnie Beattie (who I've not yet seen perform convincing over the last two years!), but perhaps underlying all of this is the whole Glasgow/Edinburgh thing again.....

funnyExiledScot wrote:I really don't get this massive dislike of David Denton or really understand what he's done wrong to warrant these low opinions. Sure, he is not the complete number 8 and has weaknesses to his game, but he's a pretty damn good player for Scotland to have at our disposal, and I've certainly never had the impression having watched him numerous times for Edinburgh that he's a shirker. I certainly do not think he fails in comparison to Ryan Wilson and Adam Ashe (not yet anyway) nor frankly Johnnie Beattie (who I've not yet seen perform convincing over the last two years!), but perhaps underlying all of this is the whole Glasgow/Edinburgh thing again.....

Nothing to do with Soapdodger/Exfoliator fisticuffs as far as I am concerned.

Like Mister AP at Glasgow, it seems to be more the player's attitude that rankles with some members of the public, rather than Denton's ability.

For me, I want to see his carrying technique, offloading and counter-rucking game improve or he will be overtaken by younger 8s like Ashe or Spinks who seem to have both the time and inclination to improve themselves. It's not enough to be a naturally gifted athlete, which Denton clearly is.

Denton is certainly a gifted athlete, anybody who can bump of Riche McCaw like he did a couple of years ago is obviously very powerful. All that being said, his game is overly simplistic: look for contact - run into contact. He doesn't link play, hardly ever offloads in contact and often has the ball stripped from him as he carries the ball in one hand and with poor body positioning.

At international level, against similarly gifted athletes, he just doesn't offer enough for me. The pecking order for me would be:

Ally Hogg - Would love to see him back in a Scotland shirt, he would thrive in the current set up.
Johnnie Beattie - Offers slightly more physicality (at this stage) than Ashe. Is prone to drifting out of games.
Adam Ashe - Will become a fine international player given time - slightly under powered at present.
David Denton - See above.
Ryan Wilson - I'm honestly not a huge fan of Wilson - Solid Rabo operator, but completely under powered at international level .

I really can't see any changes to the starting XV, except Lamont in for Bennett.

EST wrote:Denton is certainly a gifted athlete, anybody who can bump of Riche McCaw like he did a couple of years ago is obviously very powerful.  All that being said, his game is overly simplistic: look for contact  - run into contact.  He doesn't link play, hardly ever offloads in contact and often has the ball stripped from him as he carries the ball in one hand and with poor body positioning.  

At international level, against similarly gifted athletes, he just doesn't offer enough for me.  The pecking order for me would be:

Ally Hogg - Would love to see him back in a Scotland shirt, he would thrive in the current set up.
Johnnie Beattie - Offers slightly more physicality (at this stage) than Ashe.  Is prone to drifting out of games.
Adam Ashe - Will become a fine international player given time - slightly under powered at present.
David Denton - See above.
Ryan Wilson - I'm honestly not a huge fan of Wilson - Solid Rabo operator, but completely under powered at international level .

I don’t understand this yearning for Ally Hogg at 8. He was great at openside when he played alongside Taylor and White, but he never had the bulk required for an international 8, even in 2008-9, and now plays for a team that would probably be relegated this season if it weren’t for London Welsh.

Got to agree on Hogg - with the Gray brothers and Cowan we've got some decent ball players in the forward, and given the back row balance we're really needing our 8 to be a big bastard who will carry all day and get us over the gainline

I think Hogg is the form no8 that is available to Scotland at the moment. True Newcastle aren't a top club in England however Hogg is week in week out performing at a very high level.
He is a totally different player now than when he was at Edinburgh. He has bulked up a fair bit, probably a stone heavier now and is using that extra weight to good effect. He has still managed to retain a lot of his speed that he had and has in my opinion become a far better rounded player.
He also has the added bonus that he Is a natural leader and reads a game very well something which Scotland don't have too many experienced players in that area.

The issue for Denton is that he has been totally found out by the other pro rugby players!

When Denton gets the ball, they know he is not going to run into space. They know he is not going to pass or offload so they know that if they run straight at him, they can wrap up him and the ball and go for a turnover.

It means he doesn't get over the gain line and it means either they will turn himover or at very least we'll get slower ball.

When he first burst onto the scean, he was great, but he's been found out and not adapted his play so he is now very very limited!

His place then cannot be justifed as the one thing he did do, he no longer can. He doesn't clear out at the ruck. He doesn't make anywhere near the number of tackles as Ford, Harley et al. He isn't renowned for operating in a line out. He was selected as a devestating ball carrier, but he isn't even that anymore!

It's like comparing Jim Hamilton with Nathan Hines! Both big bruiser enforcers prone to giving away penalties, but Hines was one of out best forwards at offloading in the tackle to keep play moving. It was one of the reasons why he was a far better all round player than Hamilton!

4 changes due to injury, apparently. Not clear if that is just in the starting 15 or in the 23...

RDW_Scotland wrote:Got to agree on Hogg - with the Gray brothers and Cowan we've got some decent ball players in the forward, and given the back row balance we're really needing our 8 to be a big bastard who will carry all day and get us over the gainline

T minus 10 months for Mr Joshua Strauss.

Bench:
16 Brown
17 Reid
18 Grant
19 Low
20 Strokosch
21 Cusiter
22 Weir
23 Taylor

Looks like we've run out of TH props...

And 2nd rows...

Pack - Dickinson, Ford, Cross, Gray, Gray, Harley, Cowan & Beattie

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); 26 caps

14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors); 12 caps
13 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors); 90 caps
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors); 3 tries
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby); 14 caps

10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors); 4 caps
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester); 33 caps

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby); 38 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby); 79 caps
3 Geoff Cross (London Irish); 34 caps
4 Richie Gray (Castres); 41 caps
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors); 7 caps
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors); 9 caps
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish); 5 caps
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres); 33 caps

Substitutes
16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors); 2caps
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors); 5 caps
18 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors); 18 caps
19 Kieran Low (London Irish); 4 caps
20 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan); 41 caps
21 Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks); 69 caps
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors); 17 caps
23 Duncan Taylor (Saracens); 11 caps

pleased to see there aren't too many changes to the starting xv and that the changes that have been made are down to injuries.
Think that is what Scotland need is a settled starting xv so players get used to each other and used to combinations.

The subs I am surprised at. obviously very weird having 2 loosehead props on the bench,think reid has played tighthead on occasion but not often. Is Jon Welsh still injured? Just goes to show what a bad effect Edinburgh are having on the depth of some key positions when Edinburgh's 2 main TH are not Scottish qualified!

Also still not convinced by Kieran Low, it has been mostly blindside I have seen him play at LI so he may be a better 2nd row but I think there are better 2nd rowers available to fill the bench spot!
No idea why Strokosh is on the bench again filling the back row cover spot. Adds nothing from the bench at all even when he was in peak form. Was good as a starting 6 but he isn't an impact player and also isn't in great form at Perpignan. With all the back row options we have available there are far better options out there.
Pleased with the back subs and looking forward to seeing Duncan Taylor get a run as he has been good at Saracens this season and looks to be putting in more mature performances. Not set the hay alight with Scotland but hopefully he has developed and can bring his club form.

Welsh is on the bench for Glasgow - Fagerson is starting ahead of him, suggesting Welsh isn't fully match fit.

Majestic83 wrote:pleased to see there aren't too many changes to the starting xv and that the changes that have been made are down to injuries.
Think that is what Scotland need is a settled starting xv so players get used to each other and used to combinations.

The subs I am surprised at. obviously very weird having 2 loosehead props on the bench,think reid has played tighthead on occasion but not often. Is Jon Welsh still injured? Just goes to show what a bad effect Edinburgh are having on the depth of some key positions when Edinburgh's 2 main TH are not Scottish qualified!

Also still not convinced by Kieran Low, it has been mostly blindside I have seen him play at LI so he may be a better 2nd row but I think there are better 2nd rowers available to fill the bench spot!
No idea why Strokosh is on the bench again filling the back row cover spot. Adds nothing from the bench at all even when he was in peak form. Was good as a starting 6 but he isn't an impact player and also isn't in great form at Perpignan. With all the back row options we have available there are far better options out there.
Pleased with the back subs and looking forward to seeing Duncan Taylor get a run as he has been good at Saracens this season and looks to be putting in more mature performances. Not set the hay alight with Scotland but hopefully he has developed and can bring his club form.

If everyone was fit, yes, Low would be well down the pecking order for second row. However Gilchrist and Swinson (I assume) are injured; Hamilton must be well out of favour; and Kellock isn't an impact sub. Not sure who else there is!

demosthenes wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:pleased to see there aren't too many changes to the starting xv and that the changes that have been made are down to injuries.
Think that is what Scotland need is a settled starting xv so players get used to each other and used to combinations.

The subs I am surprised at. obviously very weird having 2 loosehead props on the bench,think reid has played tighthead on occasion but not often. Is Jon Welsh still injured? Just goes to show what a bad effect Edinburgh are having on the depth of some key positions when Edinburgh's 2 main TH are not Scottish qualified!

Also still not convinced by Kieran Low, it has been mostly blindside I have seen him play at LI so he may be a better 2nd row but I think there are better 2nd rowers available to fill the bench spot!
No idea why Strokosh is on the bench again filling the back row cover spot. Adds nothing from the bench at all even when he was in peak form. Was good as a starting 6 but he isn't an impact player and also isn't in great form at Perpignan. With all the back row options we have available there are far better options out there.
Pleased with the back subs and looking forward to seeing Duncan Taylor get a run as he has been good at Saracens this season and looks to be putting in more mature performances. Not set the hay alight with Scotland but hopefully he has developed and can bring his club form.

If everyone was fit, yes, Low would be well down the pecking order for second row.  However Gilchrist and Swinson (I assume) are injured; Hamilton The Violent Penalty Magnet must be well out of favour; and Kellock isn't an impact sub.  Not sure who else there is!

Fixed that one for you Demo, no charge this time!

Team as pretty much expected. Beattie and Visser have a massive point to prove. I expect strong games from both. The selection of Stroks is a weird one. As much as I think Lamont is way past his sell by date I think Strokosch is even further past his.

It's strange Strokosch is preferred to Barclay. Also, Strokosch clearly isn't the future, so why not Ally Hogg? Or Denton?

They're maybe looking after Edinburgh here with Denton, becuase we really would be screwed if he was unavailable.

I know the national team comes first, but if there wasn't much in it...

Great XV selection, less sure about the bench (but I suspect injuries are much at play).

I'm entirely with Majestic on Ali Hogg, and do think Denton would have brought much more impact than Strokosch.

Still, I'm loving not waking up on team selection day with a feeling of complete and utter dread, and if we lose on Saturday it won't be because we have players all over the pitch out of position.

Like that team a lot. Thank feck Vern is consistent. Was also a bit panicky (from a Soapdodger perspective) that Dunbar might be injured too, so I'm delighted to see that he's starting.

Comparing Kieran Low to Kelly Brown really is both depressing and faintly funny in equal measure, however. I hope that Kelly is back in the mix for the 6 Nations.

I am assuming that Strokosch knows this may be his last time in a Scotland shirt for a while unless he pulls a huge performance from his big, hairy Paisley erse.

No Tongan team announced at the time of tapping this out, I believe.

Is it just me or does it look like Uncle Vern has picked the starting XV but then Rab C has picked the subs????????

funnyExiledScot wrote:I really don't get this massive dislike of David Denton or really understand what he's done wrong to warrant these low opinions. Sure, he is not the complete number 8 and has weaknesses to his game, but he's a pretty damn good player for Scotland to have at our disposal, and I've certainly never had the impression having watched him numerous times for Edinburgh that he's a shirker. I certainly do not think he fails in comparison to Ryan Wilson and Adam Ashe (not yet anyway) nor frankly Johnnie Beattie (who I've not yet seen perform convincing over the last two years!), but perhaps underlying all of this is the whole Glasgow/Edinburgh thing again.....

Not sure why you keep bringing this up - but it seems to be a bug bear of yours - not one else seems to be mentioning it or have I missed something!?


I like Denton but I think he still needs to work on his off loading game - he even admitted that last year. He certainly is a great resource to have in the Scotland mix, but sometimes I feel he is a little too simple a player- he is still young and is certainly going to feature for a while - which is good for Scotland

I am also not convinced on Beattie - nothing he has done since the Killer B has set my pulse racing - so it is time for him to take the step up to deserve to be the holder of the shirt

Riskysports wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I really don't get this massive dislike of David Denton or really understand what he's done wrong to warrant these low opinions. Sure, he is not the complete number 8 and has weaknesses to his game, but he's a pretty damn good player for Scotland to have at our disposal, and I've certainly never had the impression having watched him numerous times for Edinburgh that he's a shirker. I certainly do not think he fails in comparison to Ryan Wilson and Adam Ashe (not yet anyway) nor frankly Johnnie Beattie (who I've not yet seen perform convincing over the last two years!), but perhaps underlying all of this is the whole Glasgow/Edinburgh thing again.....

Not sure why you keep bringing this up - but it seems to be a bug bear of yours - not one else seems to be mentioning it or have I missed something!?

It just annoys me that Edinburgh fans, to a man, are able to combine flawless rugby knowledge whilst remaining completely impartial, unbiased and objective when evaluating players from all origins, yet our Glasgow brethren can sit there, unwashed, unemployed and misunderstanding the democractic process, claiming that Byron McGuigan is better than Conrad Smith......

Fes, I seem to remember a time when there was an element of humour/wit in this east-west banter thing. Mind you, if I was paying to watch the dross that the MFL are serving up at the moment I'd struggle to be Wildean. (No change there then, I suppose)

Actually BabyfES has insisted that I pay not to watch the rugby. My season ticket looks newer than Al Kellock's kit at the end of a game.