Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
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The Saint
Imperialbigdave
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: Club Rugby
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Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
First topic message reminder :
Edinburgh Rugby v Cardiff Blues
Sunday 23 November 2014
KO 16:00
BT Murrayfield
Live on BBC Wicker Man/SC4
Referee: Leo Colgan (IRU, 16th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Stephen Hart (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Rob Flockhart (SRU)
TMO: Iain Ramage (SRU)
A. Teams:
Edinburgh Rugby
Nick McLennan, Dougie Fife, Sam Beard, Andries Strauss, Tom Brown, Tom Heathcote, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Rory Sutherland, James Hilterbrand, Willem Nel, Ollie Atkins, Ben Toolis, Mike Coman (capt), Roddy Grant, David Denton.
Replacements: Neil Cochrane, Grant Shiells, John Andress, Fraser McKenzie, Tomas Leonardi, Grayson Hart, Greig Tonks, Matt Scott.
Cardiff Blues
Gareth Anscombe, Richard Smith, Adam Thomas, Gavin Evans, Dan Fish, Gareth Davies, Lloyd Williams; Sam Hobbs, Kristian Dacey, Adam Jones (capt), Jarrad Hoeata, Macauley Cook, Josh Turnbull, Ellis Jenkins, Manoa Vosawai.
Replacements: Rhys Williams, Thomas Davies, Scott Andrews, Chris Dicomidis, Josh Navidi, Lewis Jones, Garyn Smith, Geraint Walsh.
B. Form - head to head:
22 Played 22
9 Wins 13
13 Losses 9
0 Draws 0
33 Tries 63
25 Conversions 45
41 Penalties 43
7 Drop Goals 0
359 Points 534
24 Avg. Age 21
C. Form - last season:
Sun 6 Oct 2013
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh
Rugby Arms Park
Fri 11 Apr 2014
Edinburgh Rugby 22 - 29 Cardiff Blues
Meggetland
Edinburgh Rugby v Cardiff Blues
Sunday 23 November 2014
KO 16:00
BT Murrayfield
Live on BBC Wicker Man/SC4
Referee: Leo Colgan (IRU, 16th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Stephen Hart (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Rob Flockhart (SRU)
TMO: Iain Ramage (SRU)
A. Teams:
Edinburgh Rugby
Nick McLennan, Dougie Fife, Sam Beard, Andries Strauss, Tom Brown, Tom Heathcote, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Rory Sutherland, James Hilterbrand, Willem Nel, Ollie Atkins, Ben Toolis, Mike Coman (capt), Roddy Grant, David Denton.
Replacements: Neil Cochrane, Grant Shiells, John Andress, Fraser McKenzie, Tomas Leonardi, Grayson Hart, Greig Tonks, Matt Scott.
Cardiff Blues
Gareth Anscombe, Richard Smith, Adam Thomas, Gavin Evans, Dan Fish, Gareth Davies, Lloyd Williams; Sam Hobbs, Kristian Dacey, Adam Jones (capt), Jarrad Hoeata, Macauley Cook, Josh Turnbull, Ellis Jenkins, Manoa Vosawai.
Replacements: Rhys Williams, Thomas Davies, Scott Andrews, Chris Dicomidis, Josh Navidi, Lewis Jones, Garyn Smith, Geraint Walsh.
B. Form - head to head:
22 Played 22
9 Wins 13
13 Losses 9
0 Draws 0
33 Tries 63
25 Conversions 45
41 Penalties 43
7 Drop Goals 0
359 Points 534
24 Avg. Age 21
C. Form - last season:
Sun 6 Oct 2013
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh
Rugby Arms Park
Fri 11 Apr 2014
Edinburgh Rugby 22 - 29 Cardiff Blues
Meggetland
Last edited by George Carlin on Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
It's a miracle.
It only took conceding 28 points and Edinburgh being down to 13 men!
It only took conceding 28 points and Edinburgh being down to 13 men!
wales606- Posts : 10728
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
What a bird brain running towards touch
glamorganalun- Posts : 3292
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
We've made an absolute mess of this last 20 minutes - should have been a cricket score given how bad the blues were playing and their 3 yellows!
RDW- Founder
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Anscome look pretty crap so far
glamorganalun- Posts : 3292
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Who kicked that away?
VinceWLB- Posts : 3841
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
glamorganalun wrote:Anscome look pretty crap so far
He has shown signs of what he can do,
Probably been our best back...but that is like saying the driest ocean.
wales606- Posts : 10728
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
We look absolutely knackered
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Wow.
Worst kicking performance I have ever seen from any team
Worst kicking performance I have ever seen from any team
wales606- Posts : 10728
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Well great to get the win, but we'll never have a better chance to get a 4 try bp!
RDW- Founder
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
We put out a development team last week which beat a full strength Newcastle team away from home.
I don't see how they could have played any worse than that to be honest.
Lot of players positions should be in trouble if Hammett has any b*lls
I don't see how they could have played any worse than that to be honest.
Lot of players positions should be in trouble if Hammett has any b*lls
wales606- Posts : 10728
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
That has to be the worst performance I have ever seen by the Blues poor skills, fitness and terrible defence.
glamorganalun- Posts : 3292
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
1 point lost as opposed to 4 points won as far as i'm concerned.
VinceWLB- Posts : 3841
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Two of the worst performances i've seen. First from the Blues, the second from the production team. Missed half the game as they were too busy tracking players who were no longer in the game, or showing replay.
Coleman- Posts : 1554
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Positives:
Guys returning from injury looked well up for it. Scott looked dangerous every time he got the ball, and Tom Brown reminded us of his defensive qualities on the wing.
Toolis, Sutherland and Coman had good games in the pack.
Heathcote still looks shaky at times, but his boots outstanding, and he plays heads up, with a couple of nice breaks and a great pass for Browns try.
Dougie Fife is class.
Apart from Cardiffs try, our defence in the 22 was outstanding.
Negatives:
I counted 3 crucial handling errors and 2 penalties from Denton. He also kept showing up in the outside channels after wed earned the right to go wide, taking a ball that shouldve been for a winger or centre and taking contact.
Took the foot off the gas when we shouldve gone for the juggular after the third try.
Tactics are still too negative.
Cardiff spent almost half the game with a man down. Ill take the win any day, but that is a bonus point lost.
Guys returning from injury looked well up for it. Scott looked dangerous every time he got the ball, and Tom Brown reminded us of his defensive qualities on the wing.
Toolis, Sutherland and Coman had good games in the pack.
Heathcote still looks shaky at times, but his boots outstanding, and he plays heads up, with a couple of nice breaks and a great pass for Browns try.
Dougie Fife is class.
Apart from Cardiffs try, our defence in the 22 was outstanding.
Negatives:
I counted 3 crucial handling errors and 2 penalties from Denton. He also kept showing up in the outside channels after wed earned the right to go wide, taking a ball that shouldve been for a winger or centre and taking contact.
Took the foot off the gas when we shouldve gone for the juggular after the third try.
Tactics are still too negative.
Cardiff spent almost half the game with a man down. Ill take the win any day, but that is a bonus point lost.
Imperialbigdave- Posts : 1353
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Well done Edinburgh, ok The Blues were awful but you can only beat what is in front of you. The bonus point is irrelevant at the moment, this is still a far from full strength side and the Blues are a side at their level, wins are all that count at the moment and the confidence that comes from that. If they keep playing and defending like that in particular, then they will climb up the league to the point where bonus points will count.
This is progress, real progress. Here are 2 sides who started the season badly and one has improved and the other continued to go backwards. Edinburgh were never going to become a playoff side this year, the best they could hope foe is to get European qualification. That may become a realistic aim if they keep playing like this. Keep it up Edinburgh, great to see some pride back in the performance.
This is progress, real progress. Here are 2 sides who started the season badly and one has improved and the other continued to go backwards. Edinburgh were never going to become a playoff side this year, the best they could hope foe is to get European qualification. That may become a realistic aim if they keep playing like this. Keep it up Edinburgh, great to see some pride back in the performance.
BigGee- Admin
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Pleasing to hear Solomans acknowledge that our attacking game needs work. Until now, hes largely ignored our shortcomings in that department.
Imperialbigdave- Posts : 1353
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
VinceWLB wrote:1 point lost as opposed to 4 points won as far as i'm concerned.
You Edinburgh fans are really harsh, take the positives for goodness sake, it was a good win, with a weakened team. If they keep improving then the bonus points will come. It is all about building confidence and results at the moment.
BigGee- Admin
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Imperialbigdave wrote:Pleasing to hear Solomans acknowledge that our attacking game needs work. Until now, hes largely ignored our shortcomings in that department.
He is right, defence is the foundations of the game. Once you know that your defensive foundations are sound then you can build your attacking play on that. It is definitely the right way to build a team, exactly what Lineen did at Glasgow and look where that lead!
BigGee- Admin
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
It wasn't that weakened an Edinburgh team.
Who kicked the ball away after Denton break? he clearly acted like a robot, ie kick the ball away in your own half...
It was good to get the win but gameplan too negative still.
Also funny that the defense has got better now the defensive coach has left
Who kicked the ball away after Denton break? he clearly acted like a robot, ie kick the ball away in your own half...
It was good to get the win but gameplan too negative still.
Also funny that the defense has got better now the defensive coach has left
VinceWLB- Posts : 3841
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
There is no magic wand moment in becoming a good team, it is very much evolution not revolution. There was an awful lot you could take from this game but you choose to focus on the negative.
Remember when Edinburgh used to play chuck it about open rugby, they used to lose a lot more than they won. tackling was considered an optional extra. Solomon's is a hard nosed rugby man through and through and I think he is doing a pretty good job at Edinburgh. He understands how to win rugby matches, it is not always pretty but even today there were some flashes of open play, more than we have seen recently, let down mainly by poor execution. He is doing okay and you have got to give Solomon's and the players the chance to keep on improving. They really do look like they have the appetite to do it now.
Remember when Edinburgh used to play chuck it about open rugby, they used to lose a lot more than they won. tackling was considered an optional extra. Solomon's is a hard nosed rugby man through and through and I think he is doing a pretty good job at Edinburgh. He understands how to win rugby matches, it is not always pretty but even today there were some flashes of open play, more than we have seen recently, let down mainly by poor execution. He is doing okay and you have got to give Solomon's and the players the chance to keep on improving. They really do look like they have the appetite to do it now.
BigGee- Admin
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
VinceWLB wrote:It wasn't that weakened an Edinburgh team.
Who kicked the ball away after Denton break? he clearly acted like a robot, ie kick the ball away in your own half...
It was good to get the win but gameplan too negative still.
Also funny that the defense has got better now the defensive coach has left
Dickinson, Ford, Gilchrist, Bresler, Watson, Du Preez in the pack for starters and I would suggest Burleigh, Visser and imo Tonks in the backs, so just half our first team missing then. Behave Vince.
justified sinner- Posts : 1042
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
OK, I'm pleased we're moving in the right direction, and some real positives but we still need to bring more heads up rugby to our game. SHC has a flash of something good, but he's not allowed to go for the break like when he was a kid. One of many examples, this team has some talent, and needs to be allowed to play a bit.
Positives today; Sutherland owned Adam at scrum time and was good about the pitch (enjoyed letting Mr Jones know it from the safety of the East stand) , Toolis good he's looking like a rugby player now, SHC good apart from the pre-programmed kicks, Heathcote good all the backs played OK, Dougie and Tom in particular.
Negatives; Hildebrand was poor apart from his line out throwing, not the best I've seen from Atkins still OK, Denton and Scott both looked rusty, but hungry for work. McLennan invisible, Tonks or Cuthbert please, they both have big boots which would have been useful in that match rather than watching another 15 metre kick to touch.
Positives today; Sutherland owned Adam at scrum time and was good about the pitch (enjoyed letting Mr Jones know it from the safety of the East stand) , Toolis good he's looking like a rugby player now, SHC good apart from the pre-programmed kicks, Heathcote good all the backs played OK, Dougie and Tom in particular.
Negatives; Hildebrand was poor apart from his line out throwing, not the best I've seen from Atkins still OK, Denton and Scott both looked rusty, but hungry for work. McLennan invisible, Tonks or Cuthbert please, they both have big boots which would have been useful in that match rather than watching another 15 metre kick to touch.
justified sinner- Posts : 1042
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Thanks for all the narrative JS. Missed the game (yet again) due to BabyfES.
I'm just delighted we won. Sounds like a try bonus was there for the taking but the win comes first, certainly for us. Astonished to hear that Strauss actually scored as well!
With the great unwashed falling apart someone has to fly the flag for Scottish rugby
I'm just delighted we won. Sounds like a try bonus was there for the taking but the win comes first, certainly for us. Astonished to hear that Strauss actually scored as well!
With the great unwashed falling apart someone has to fly the flag for Scottish rugby
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17072
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Can't see us getting 6th place this season. We're already 8 points off 6 place and have a much harder 2nd half to the season.
The damage is already done.
Connacht's great form has messed things up too - normally they aren't competing at mid table
The damage is already done.
Connacht's great form has messed things up too - normally they aren't competing at mid table
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
RDW_Scotland wrote:Can't see us getting 6th place this season. We're already 8 points off 6 place and have a much harder 2nd half to the season.
The damage is already done.
Connacht's great form has messed things up too - normally they aren't competing at mid table
sounds about right.
TJ- Posts : 8603
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Connacht are pretty hot right now. They're playing the NZ way quite well.
The Saint- Posts : 6046
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Key losses at home to connacht, not getting any bp's on the road and drawing at home against the Scarlets.
We're unlikely to beat many top 6 teams at home so we simply had to beat the teams around us!
We're unlikely to beat many top 6 teams at home so we simply had to beat the teams around us!
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
If Edinburgh can make themselves hard to beat, then anything is possible. They need to be aiming for a target, 8 points is by no means insurmountable, even with a hard run in. A lot of the teams Edinburgh will play will be giving up players to internationals and trying to be competitive in two competitions!
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Thought the ref was good today. Set out his stall early on that he was not going to tolerate any skulduggery at the breakdown. All the yellows actually seemed fair enough. certainly consistent
TJ- Posts : 8603
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
TJ wrote:Thought the ref was good today. Set out his stall early on that he was not going to tolerate any skulduggery at the breakdown. All the yellows actually seemed fair enough. certainly consistent
I didn't see the game but I'm a big fan of supporters calling out decent ref performances when they come around. Other than Sir Nigel Owens, the feedback tends to be one way traffic.
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17072
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
He was certainly very shouty - screamed at the players to roll away or release at every ruck! Kind of like a rugby league ref.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
RDW_Scotland wrote:Can't see us getting 6th place this season. We're already 8 points off 6 place and have a much harder 2nd half to the season.
The damage is already done.
Connacht's great form has messed things up too - normally they aren't competing at mid table
Not sure I agree with that, of our remaining 14 games 6 are against the bottom 4 teams all of whom look poor, of the remaining 8 we've got 2 against Glasgow and of the remaining 6 against top half teams 4 are at home. So looks like an easy run into me.
justified sinner- Posts : 1042
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
justified sinner wrote:RDW_Scotland wrote:Can't see us getting 6th place this season. We're already 8 points off 6 place and have a much harder 2nd half to the season.
The damage is already done.
Connacht's great form has messed things up too - normally they aren't competing at mid table
Not sure I agree with that, of our remaining 14 games 6 are against the bottom 4 teams all of whom look poor, of the remaining 8 we've got 2 against Glasgow and of the remaining 6 against top half teams 4 are at home. So looks like an easy run into me.
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Sorry GC, I didn't mean to infer the Glasgow games were easy, merely that the overall run in is not as tough as it could be.
justified sinner- Posts : 1042
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Haha, well we play the same teams in the 2nd half as the first half so the fixtures are no harder or easier other than the potential mental barrier of away games. In this regard surely the fact we have already been away to Munster, Ulster, Leinster and Ospreys is a good thing when considering the balance of remaining fixtures.
Back to the game, most names credited I would have to agree with. Must say though that I thought everybodies favourite panto villains Coman and Strauss had strong games. Coman looked good in contact, never took a backwards step with his carries (dare I say he "led" well!!!). Other than his try, Strauss was solid in defence and did actually give our outside backs some good ball on a few occasions.
On one occasion I definitely saw Denton take the ball into contact, turn to look for support and raise his arm with the ball to try and get an offload away! It wasn't on though so he rightly kept hold and recycled it in the ruck. Still, that's progress is it not?!
Finally, our blend of brainless box kicks seemed a bit better. Only a couple of times I wanted to gouge my eyes out in frustration and I feel we kept the ball moving through the phases productively a few times. Got to be happy with the 4 points here, it was no guarantee before kick off.
Back to the game, most names credited I would have to agree with. Must say though that I thought everybodies favourite panto villains Coman and Strauss had strong games. Coman looked good in contact, never took a backwards step with his carries (dare I say he "led" well!!!). Other than his try, Strauss was solid in defence and did actually give our outside backs some good ball on a few occasions.
On one occasion I definitely saw Denton take the ball into contact, turn to look for support and raise his arm with the ball to try and get an offload away! It wasn't on though so he rightly kept hold and recycled it in the ruck. Still, that's progress is it not?!
Finally, our blend of brainless box kicks seemed a bit better. Only a couple of times I wanted to gouge my eyes out in frustration and I feel we kept the ball moving through the phases productively a few times. Got to be happy with the 4 points here, it was no guarantee before kick off.
JonnyEdinburgh- Posts : 106
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
justified sinner wrote:Not sure I agree with that, of our remaining 14 games 6 are against the bottom 4 teams all of whom look poor, of the remaining 8 we've got 2 against Glasgow and of the remaining 6 against top half teams 4 are at home. So looks like an easy run into me.
I'd have to agree with you. On the basis of yesterdays performance I'd say we could be competitive with some of the current top 6 teams too.
It's been a long time coming but we looked like a team last night. There was lots of positive encouragement going on. When Denton knocked on with his first touch his head went down. Immediately afterwards, a few folk went up to offer some encouragement. It didn't stop him from knocking on again (and again) but he didn't seem to dwell on it.
It always sounded like Solomons was over doing the "team spirit" bit but it seems pretty true now.
des- Posts : 288
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
JonnyEdinburgh wrote:Haha, well we play the same teams in the 2nd half as the first half so the fixtures are no harder or easier other than the potential mental barrier of away games. In this regard surely the fact we have already been away to Munster, Ulster, Leinster and Ospreys is a good thing when considering the balance of remaining fixtures.
Back to the game, most names credited I would have to agree with. Must say though that I thought everybodies favourite panto villains Coman and Strauss had strong games. Coman looked good in contact, never took a backwards step with his carries (dare I say he "led" well!!!). Other than his try, Strauss was solid in defence and did actually give our outside backs some good ball on a few occasions.
On one occasion I definitely saw Denton take the ball into contact, turn to look for support and raise his arm with the ball to try and get an offload away! It wasn't on though so he rightly kept hold and recycled it in the ruck. Still, that's progress is it not?!
Finally, our blend of brainless box kicks seemed a bit better. Only a couple of times I wanted to gouge my eyes out in frustration and I feel we kept the ball moving through the phases productively a few times. Got to be happy with the 4 points here, it was no guarantee before kick off.
Comon looked like a different player yesterday. He just seemed to make ground when ever he went into contact.
I remember the incident with Denton. I was screaming at him not to bother. Who does he think he is, Nakarawa or SBW?
I'm not a huge fan of his and think he probably takes up too much of the wage bill for what he offers. He seemed to make a number of pretty basic mistakes and his fielding of restarts needs a lot of work. Having said that, his defensive contribution, which isn't always so visible, was pretty immense. I'm going to cut him some slack from now on.
Regarding our box kicks, the issue is really with Kennedy. He lacks any sort of accuracy with his attempts and they often give away possession, territory or both.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
RDW_Scotland wrote:He was certainly very shouty - screamed at the players to roll away or release at every ruck! Kind of like a rugby league ref.
Also for players offside at kicks - a couple of pens for that. He told the players - if they didn't obey they got pinged. Same with two of the yellows - the team were warned and the next offender went to the bin. Yellow for a punch to the head - fair enough. a bit harsh on the deliberate knock on but often given. I have forgotten what the other blues yellow was for - persistent infringing?
Needs to be a bit less whistle happy but I liked his style. Players from both sides were really scrambling to get away from rucks once they realised they would be pinged.
TJ- Posts : 8603
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
Stats make interesting reading - Blues had the best of pretty much everything.
Denton- I thought he had a good game - and the stats bear this out. 12 carries for 74 m, one clean break 3 defenders beaten, 3 lineout takes and 13 tackles none missed. 2 turnovers against
Denton- I thought he had a good game - and the stats bear this out. 12 carries for 74 m, one clean break 3 defenders beaten, 3 lineout takes and 13 tackles none missed. 2 turnovers against
TJ- Posts : 8603
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
TJ wrote:Stats make interesting reading - Blues had the best of pretty much everything.
Denton- I thought he had a good game - and the stats bear this out. 12 carries for 74 m, one clean break 3 defenders beaten, 3 lineout takes and 13 tackles none missed. 2 turnovers against
Shhhh, we don't praise Denton on here, and certainly don't muddy the waters with facts. He's completely rubbish and overrated. Glasgow now have three better number 8's, assuming one of them doesn't go to prison.
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17072
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November
funnyExiledScot wrote:TJ wrote:Stats make interesting reading - Blues had the best of pretty much everything.
Denton- I thought he had a good game - and the stats bear this out. 12 carries for 74 m, one clean break 3 defenders beaten, 3 lineout takes and 13 tackles none missed. 2 turnovers against
Shhhh, we don't praise Denton on here, and certainly don't muddy the waters with facts. He's completely rubbish and overrated. Glasgow now have three better number 8's, assuming one of them doesn't go to prison.
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