Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Nov 2014, 5:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November - Page 4 Edinbu10

Edinburgh Rugby v Cardiff Blues
Sunday 23 November 2014
KO 16:00
BT Murrayfield

Live on BBC Wicker Man/SC4

Referee: Leo Colgan (IRU, 16th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Stephen Hart (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Rob Flockhart (SRU)
TMO: Iain Ramage (SRU)

A. Teams:

Edinburgh Rugby
Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November - Page 4 Amanda10

Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November - Page 4 Amanda10

Nick McLennan, Dougie Fife, Sam Beard, Andries Strauss, Tom Brown, Tom Heathcote, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Rory Sutherland, James Hilterbrand, Willem Nel, Ollie Atkins, Ben Toolis, Mike Coman (capt), Roddy Grant, David Denton.

Replacements: Neil Cochrane, Grant Shiells, John Andress, Fraser McKenzie, Tomas Leonardi, Grayson Hart, Greig Tonks, Matt Scott.

Cardiff Blues
Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November - Page 4 Kather10

Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November - Page 4 Kather10

Gareth Anscombe, Richard Smith, Adam Thomas, Gavin Evans, Dan Fish, Gareth Davies, Lloyd Williams; Sam Hobbs, Kristian Dacey, Adam Jones (capt), Jarrad Hoeata, Macauley Cook, Josh Turnbull, Ellis Jenkins, Manoa Vosawai.

Replacements: Rhys Williams, Thomas Davies, Scott Andrews, Chris Dicomidis, Josh Navidi, Lewis Jones, Garyn Smith, Geraint Walsh.

B. Form - head to head:

22 Played 22
9 Wins 13
13 Losses 9
0 Draws 0
33 Tries 63
25 Conversions 45
41 Penalties 43
7 Drop Goals 0
359 Points 534
24 Avg. Age 21

C. Form - last season:

Sun 6 Oct 2013
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh
Rugby Arms Park

Fri 11 Apr 2014
Edinburgh Rugby 22 - 29 Cardiff Blues
Meggetland

by wales606 Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:42 pm

It's a miracle.

It only took conceding 28 points and Edinburgh being down to 13 men!

by glamorganalun Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:44 pm

What a bird brain running towards touch

by **RDW** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:45 pm

We've made an absolute mess of this last 20 minutes - should have been a cricket score given how bad the blues were playing and their 3 yellows!

by glamorganalun Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:46 pm

Anscome look pretty crap so far

by VinceWLB Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:47 pm

Who kicked that away?

by wales606 Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:48 pm

glamorganalun wrote:Anscome look pretty crap so far

He has shown signs of what he can do,

Probably been our best back...but that is like saying the driest ocean.

by **RDW** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:48 pm

We look absolutely knackered

by wales606 Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:48 pm

Wow.

Worst kicking performance I have ever seen from any team

by wales606 Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:49 pm

Laughable

by **RDW** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:50 pm

Well great to get the win, but we'll never have a better chance to get a 4 try bp!

by wales606 Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:51 pm

We put out a development team last week which beat a full strength Newcastle team away from home.

I don't see how they could have played any worse than that to be honest.

Lot of players positions should be in trouble if Hammett has any b*lls

by glamorganalun Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:51 pm

That has to be the worst performance I have ever seen by the Blues poor skills, fitness and terrible defence.

by VinceWLB Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:51 pm

1 point lost as opposed to 4 points won as far as i'm concerned.

by Coleman Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:56 pm

Two of the worst performances i've seen. First from the Blues, the second from the production team. Missed half the game as they were too busy tracking players who were no longer in the game, or showing replay.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:57 pm

Positives:

Guys returning from injury looked well up for it. Scott looked dangerous every time he got the ball, and Tom Brown reminded us of his defensive qualities on the wing.
Toolis, Sutherland and Coman had good games in the pack.
Heathcote still looks shaky at times, but his boots outstanding, and he plays heads up, with a couple of nice breaks and a great pass for Browns try.
Dougie Fife is class.
Apart from Cardiffs try, our defence in the 22 was outstanding.

Negatives:

I counted 3 crucial handling errors and 2 penalties from Denton. He also kept showing up in the outside channels after wed earned the right to go wide, taking a ball that shouldve been for a winger or centre and taking contact.
Took the foot off the gas when we shouldve gone for the juggular after the third try.
Tactics are still too negative.
Cardiff spent almost half the game with a man down. Ill take the win any day, but that is a bonus point lost.

by **BigGee** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:57 pm

Well done Edinburgh, ok The Blues were awful but you can only beat what is in front of you. The bonus point is irrelevant at the moment, this is still a far from full strength side and the Blues are a side at their level, wins are all that count at the moment and the confidence that comes from that. If they keep playing and defending like that in particular, then they will climb up the league to the point where bonus points will count.

This is progress, real progress. Here are 2 sides who started the season badly and one has improved and the other continued to go backwards. Edinburgh were never going to become a playoff side this year, the best they could hope foe is to get European qualification. That may become a realistic aim if they keep playing like this. Keep it up Edinburgh, great to see some pride back in the performance.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 23 Nov 2014, 5:59 pm

Pleasing to hear Solomans acknowledge that our attacking game needs work. Until now, hes largely ignored our shortcomings in that department.

by **BigGee** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 6:00 pm

VinceWLB wrote:1 point lost as opposed to 4 points won as far as i'm concerned.

You Edinburgh fans are really harsh, take the positives for goodness sake, it was a good win, with a weakened team. If they keep improving then the bonus points will come. It is all about building confidence and results at the moment.

by **BigGee** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 6:03 pm

Imperialbigdave wrote:Pleasing to hear Solomans acknowledge that our attacking game needs work. Until now, hes largely ignored our shortcomings in that department.

He is right, defence is the foundations of the game. Once you know that your defensive foundations are sound then you can build your attacking play on that. It is definitely the right way to build a team, exactly what Lineen did at Glasgow and look where that lead!

by VinceWLB Sun 23 Nov 2014, 6:06 pm

It wasn't that weakened an Edinburgh team.

Who kicked the ball away after Denton break? he clearly acted like a robot, ie kick the ball away in your own half...

It was good to get the win but gameplan too negative still.

Also funny that the defense has got better now the defensive coach has left Laugh

by **BigGee** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 6:15 pm

There is no magic wand moment in becoming a good team, it is very much evolution not revolution. There was an awful lot you could take from this game but you choose to focus on the negative.

Remember when Edinburgh used to play chuck it about open rugby, they used to lose a lot more than they won. tackling was considered an optional extra. Solomon's is a hard nosed rugby man through and through and I think he is doing a pretty good job at Edinburgh. He understands how to win rugby matches, it is not always pretty but even today there were some flashes of open play, more than we have seen recently, let down mainly by poor execution. He is doing okay and you have got to give Solomon's and the players the chance to keep on improving. They really do look like they have the appetite to do it now.

by justified sinner Sun 23 Nov 2014, 7:29 pm

VinceWLB wrote:It wasn't that weakened an Edinburgh team.

Who kicked the ball away after Denton break? he clearly acted like a robot, ie kick the ball away in your own half...

It was good to get the win but gameplan too negative still.

Also funny that the defense has got better now the defensive coach has left

Dickinson, Ford, Gilchrist, Bresler, Watson, Du Preez in the pack for starters and I would suggest Burleigh, Visser and imo Tonks in the backs, so just half our first team missing then. Behave Vince.

by justified sinner Sun 23 Nov 2014, 8:19 pm

OK, I'm pleased we're moving in the right direction, and some real positives but we still need to bring more heads up rugby to our game. SHC has a flash of something good, but he's not allowed to go for the break like when he was a kid. One of many examples, this team has some talent, and needs to be allowed to play a bit.

Positives today; Sutherland owned Adam at scrum time and was good about the pitch (enjoyed letting Mr Jones know it from the safety of the East stand) , Toolis good he's looking like a rugby player now, SHC good apart from the pre-programmed kicks, Heathcote good all the backs played OK, Dougie and Tom in particular.

Negatives; Hildebrand was poor apart from his line out throwing, not the best I've seen from Atkins still OK, Denton and Scott both looked rusty, but hungry for work. McLennan invisible, Tonks or Cuthbert please, they both have big boots which would have been useful in that match rather than watching another 15 metre kick to touch.

by funnyExiledScot Sun 23 Nov 2014, 9:42 pm

Thanks for all the narrative JS. Missed the game (yet again) due to BabyfES.

I'm just delighted we won. Sounds like a try bonus was there for the taking but the win comes first, certainly for us. Astonished to hear that Strauss actually scored as well!

With the great unwashed falling apart someone has to fly the flag for Scottish rugby Wink

by **RDW** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 9:53 pm

Can't see us getting 6th place this season. We're already 8 points off 6 place and have a much harder 2nd half to the season.

The damage is already done.

Connacht's great form has messed things up too - normally they aren't competing at mid table

by TJ Sun 23 Nov 2014, 10:03 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Can't see us getting 6th place this season. We're already 8 points off 6 place and have a much harder 2nd half to the season.

The damage is already done.

Connacht's great form has messed things up too - normally they aren't competing at mid table

sounds about right.

by The Saint Sun 23 Nov 2014, 10:05 pm

Connacht are pretty hot right now. They're playing the NZ way quite well.

by **RDW** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 10:07 pm

Key losses at home to connacht, not getting any bp's on the road and drawing at home against the Scarlets.

We're unlikely to beat many top 6 teams at home so we simply had to beat the teams around us!

by **BigGee** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 10:08 pm

If Edinburgh can make themselves hard to beat, then anything is possible. They need to be aiming for a target, 8 points is by no means insurmountable, even with a hard run in. A lot of the teams Edinburgh will play will be giving up players to internationals and trying to be competitive in two competitions!

by TJ Sun 23 Nov 2014, 10:18 pm

Thought the ref was good today. Set out his stall early on that he was not going to tolerate any skulduggery at the breakdown. All the yellows actually seemed fair enough. certainly consistent

by funnyExiledScot Sun 23 Nov 2014, 10:44 pm

TJ wrote:Thought the ref was good today. Set out his stall early on that he was not going to tolerate any skulduggery at the breakdown. All the yellows actually seemed fair enough. certainly consistent

I didn't see the game but I'm a big fan of supporters calling out decent ref performances when they come around. Other than Sir Nigel Owens, the feedback tends to be one way traffic.

by **RDW** Sun 23 Nov 2014, 10:46 pm

He was certainly very shouty - screamed at the players to roll away or release at every ruck! Kind of like a rugby league ref.

by justified sinner Mon 24 Nov 2014, 9:12 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Can't see us getting 6th place this season. We're already 8 points off 6 place and have a much harder 2nd half to the season.

The damage is already done.

Connacht's great form has messed things up too - normally they aren't competing at mid table

Not sure I agree with that, of our remaining 14 games 6 are against the bottom 4 teams all of whom look poor, of the remaining 8 we've got 2 against Glasgow and of the remaining 6 against top half teams 4 are at home. So looks like an easy run into me.

by **George Carlin** Mon 24 Nov 2014, 9:21 am

justified sinner wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Can't see us getting 6th place this season. We're already 8 points off 6 place and have a much harder 2nd half to the season.

The damage is already done.

Connacht's great form has messed things up too - normally they aren't competing at mid table

Not sure I agree with that, of our remaining 14 games 6 are against the bottom 4 teams all of whom look poor, of the remaining 8 we've got 2 against Glasgow and of the remaining 6 against top half teams 4 are at home. So looks like an easy run into me.

Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November - Page 4 Swear110

by justified sinner Mon 24 Nov 2014, 11:01 am

Sorry GC, I didn't mean to infer the Glasgow games were easy, merely that the overall run in is not as tough as it could be.

by JonnyEdinburgh Mon 24 Nov 2014, 11:02 am

Haha, well we play the same teams in the 2nd half as the first half so the fixtures are no harder or easier other than the potential mental barrier of away games. In this regard surely the fact we have already been away to Munster, Ulster, Leinster and Ospreys is a good thing when considering the balance of remaining fixtures.

Back to the game, most names credited I would have to agree with. Must say though that I thought everybodies favourite panto villains Coman and Strauss had strong games. Coman looked good in contact, never took a backwards step with his carries (dare I say he "led" well!!!). Other than his try, Strauss was solid in defence and did actually give our outside backs some good ball on a few occasions.

On one occasion I definitely saw Denton take the ball into contact, turn to look for support and raise his arm with the ball to try and get an offload away! It wasn't on though so he rightly kept hold and recycled it in the ruck. Still, that's progress is it not?!

Finally, our blend of brainless box kicks seemed a bit better. Only a couple of times I wanted to gouge my eyes out in frustration and I feel we kept the ball moving through the phases productively a few times. Got to be happy with the 4 points here, it was no guarantee before kick off. Smile

by des Mon 24 Nov 2014, 11:06 am

justified sinner wrote:Not sure I agree with that, of our remaining 14 games 6 are against the bottom 4 teams all of whom look poor, of the remaining 8 we've got 2 against Glasgow and of the remaining 6 against top half teams 4 are at home. So looks like an easy run into me.

I'd have to agree with you. On the basis of yesterdays performance I'd say we could be competitive with some of the current top 6 teams too.

It's been a long time coming but we looked like a team last night. There was lots of positive encouragement going on. When Denton knocked on with his first touch his head went down. Immediately afterwards, a few folk went up to offer some encouragement. It didn't stop him from knocking on again (and again) but he didn't seem to dwell on it.

It always sounded like Solomons was over doing the "team spirit" bit but it seems pretty true now.

by des Mon 24 Nov 2014, 11:29 am

JonnyEdinburgh wrote:Haha, well we play the same teams in the 2nd half as the first half so the fixtures are no harder or easier other than the potential mental barrier of away games. In this regard surely the fact we have already been away to Munster, Ulster, Leinster and Ospreys is a good thing when considering the balance of remaining fixtures.

Back to the game, most names credited I would have to agree with. Must say though that I thought everybodies favourite panto villains Coman and Strauss had strong games. Coman looked good in contact, never took a backwards step with his carries (dare I say he "led" well!!!). Other than his try, Strauss was solid in defence and did actually give our outside backs some good ball on a few occasions.

On one occasion I definitely saw Denton take the ball into contact, turn to look for support and raise his arm with the ball to try and get an offload away! It wasn't on though so he rightly kept hold and recycled it in the ruck. Still, that's progress is it not?!

Finally, our blend of brainless box kicks seemed a bit better. Only a couple of times I wanted to gouge my eyes out in frustration and I feel we kept the ball moving through the phases productively a few times. Got to be happy with the 4 points here, it was no guarantee before kick off.

Comon looked like a different player yesterday. He just seemed to make ground when ever he went into contact.

I remember the incident with Denton. I was screaming at him not to bother. Who does he think he is, Nakarawa or SBW?

I'm not a huge fan of his and think he probably takes up too much of the wage bill for what he offers. He seemed to make a number of pretty basic mistakes and his fielding of restarts needs a lot of work. Having said that, his defensive contribution, which isn't always so visible, was pretty immense. I'm going to cut him some slack from now on.

Regarding our box kicks, the issue is really with Kennedy. He lacks any sort of accuracy with his attempts and they often give away possession, territory or both.

by TJ Mon 24 Nov 2014, 5:54 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:He was certainly very shouty - screamed at the players to roll away or release at every ruck! Kind of like a rugby league ref.

Also for players offside at kicks - a couple of pens for that. He told the players - if they didn't obey they got pinged. Same with two of the yellows - the team were warned and the next offender went to the bin. Yellow for a punch to the head - fair enough. a bit harsh on the deliberate knock on but often given. I have forgotten what the other blues yellow was for - persistent infringing?

Needs to be a bit less whistle happy but I liked his style. Players from both sides were really scrambling to get away from rucks once they realised they would be pinged.

by TJ Mon 24 Nov 2014, 6:15 pm

Stats make interesting reading - Blues had the best of pretty much everything.

Denton- I thought he had a good game - and the stats bear this out. 12 carries for 74 m, one clean break 3 defenders beaten, 3 lineout takes and 13 tackles none missed. 2 turnovers against

by funnyExiledScot Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:01 pm

TJ wrote:Stats make interesting reading - Blues had the best of pretty much everything.

Denton- I thought he had a good game - and the stats bear this out. 12 carries for 74 m, one clean break 3 defenders beaten, 3 lineout takes and 13 tackles none missed. 2 turnovers against

Shhhh, we don't praise Denton on here, and certainly don't muddy the waters with facts. He's completely rubbish and overrated. Glasgow now have three better number 8's, assuming one of them doesn't go to prison.

by **George Carlin** Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:10 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
TJ wrote:Stats make interesting reading - Blues had the best of pretty much everything.

Denton- I thought he had a good game - and the stats bear this out. 12 carries for 74 m, one clean break 3 defenders beaten, 3 lineout takes and 13 tackles none missed. 2 turnovers against

Shhhh, we don't praise Denton on here, and certainly don't muddy the waters with facts. He's completely rubbish and overrated. Glasgow now have three better number 8's, assuming one of them doesn't go to prison.

Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, 23 November - Page 4 Fes_fa10

by **RDW** Wed 26 Nov 2014, 9:51 am

https://www.606v2.com/t56610-zebre-v-edinburgh-29th-november#2850867

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