Wales are just as good as the AB's....honest

First topic message reminder :

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/wales-vs-new-zealand-head-to-heads-8142909

Fantastic piece summarising head to heads for the match at the weekend. Here's some of the best:

Leigh Halfpenny 8 v Ben Smith 9

Lions and Wales maestro Halfpenny is a controversial selection ahead of the in-form Liam Williams at full-back following an injury-hit year but his quality was clear to see before he was forced off against Australia. Smith switches from wing to his Super 15 position and he is a dynamite attacker who could cause Gatland’s side problems

Alex Cuthbert 8 v Julian Savea 9

Two of the hottest try machines in world rugby with Cuthbert having crossed the whitewash in four consecutive Tests to take his haul to 14 in 28 appearances. The Jonah Lomu-like Savea has scored an incredible 29 in 32 outings.

Jonathan Davies 8 v Conrad Smith 8

It’s a major ask for Davies to be on the pace following a season curtailed by foot and shoulder muscle injuries but he’s a quality player who is also adept at the breakdown. He’s up against the ‘Snake’, who doesn’t always get the plaudits he deserves and is the glue in the New Zealand midfield.

George North 8 v Charles Piutau 7

Piutau is one of the most promising players in New Zealand rugby and is the latest model from the golden crop of 2011 who ran away with the under-20 Junior World Championship. But can he stand up physically to the power and pace of Wales strongman North?


Jamie Roberts 8 v Sonny Bill Williams 8

Lion king Roberts had the better of the dual code star and part-time boxer when Cardiff Blues humbled big-spending Toulon in the final of the Amlin Challenge Cup a few years ago and it’s essential he keeps the master off-loader in check again.

Dan Biggar 7 v Beauden Barrett 7

Biggar has recovered from the groin pull that curtailed his appearance against the Wallabies but concerns over whether he could goal-kick without pain meant Halfpenny had to start. Barrett is another relative newcomer to the international arena and Wales will be looking to expose his suspect defence.

Rhys Webb 7 v Aaron Smith 8

The likeable Webb has certainly talked the talk by claiming the All Blacks are there for the taking but he will have a lot on his plate on Saturday evening against a scrum-half opponent who is clever, has the ability to increase the tempo and the vision to spot openings.

Paul James 7 v Owen Franks 7

James got the nod at loose-head prop ahead of four-time Six Nations winner Gethin Jenkins for the 33-28 defeat to the Aussies and the latter’s latest injury, a hamstring strain, sees him going head-to-head with New Zealand tight-head Franks as both sides looking to gain an advantage at the scrum.

Richard Hibbard 8 v Dane Coles 7

Hard man Hibbard was back to his best against Australia and put his body on the line with his trademark thumping hits. He incurred the wrath of Warren Gatland after making a controversial cameo appearance as a substitute for Gloucester last Friday and will want to prove a point against up-and-comer Coles.

Samson Lee 7 v Wyatt Crockett 7

If Crockett had lived in America’s Wild West during the cowboy days there’s no doubt, with his name, he would have been a gun-fighter. He’ll be looking to shoot down Test rookie Lee but the 21-year-old Welshman has already proved he doesn’t care a hoot about reputations.

Jake Ball 7 v Brodie Retallick 7

Along with Piutau and Barrett, lock Retallick was a member of the glittering 2011 under-20 class which destroyed their Welsh counterparts 92-0 during a Rovigo rout. Wales star Ball is the same age, 23, and has the mind-set to get stuck into the Kiwis.

Alun Wyn Jones 9 v Sam Whitelock 8

Wales lock Jones would walk into most international teams in the world with his inspirational play and leadership qualities. Whitelock is another proven leader and their duel at the line-out could prove crucial to determining Welsh prospects.

Dan Lydiate 7 v Jerome Kaino 7

Ospreys-bound Lydiate has had a weight lifted off his mind with the way being cleared for him to sign one of the new dual contracts being brought into Welsh rugby, but he will need to be at his chop-tackling best and use his physique to get the better of the skilled Kaino.

Sam Warburton 8 v Richie McCaw 8

The two captains go head-to-head in the battle of the breakdown, with McCaw sure to come under scrutiny for the legality of his methods. Warburton was top-notch against Australia but what can you say about McCaw? It’s his 100th Test as captain and he’s perhaps the greatest player of all-time.

Taulupe Faletau 8 v Kieran Read 9

Faletau has made a quiet start to the autumn campaign but has had a habit in the past of producing his best against the sport’s biggest names. IRB player of the year Read is certainly one of those and the real Faletau will need to be at his best.


Mental.....

Cyril wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Some total crap spouted by NZ and A Africa as usual, but to be expected with spattrings of English nonsense.  A great BIG yawn fest.

It's a Welsh article....

The responses are not but what the hell it's an expected response in this hole.

You live in a hole?

Lived in England once, thought they should fill it in.

TightHEAD wrote:Did the WRU buy the pitch at Splott market for a knock down price?

This is the WRU. It was a 'special' price from a mate of a relative of someone on the board

If this was an English paper/pundit there would be cries of ARROGENT ENGLISHMEN posted by our celt friends all over this board. Its ok though for the welsh media to do it.

ARROGENT WELSHMEN

Hope that solves some continuity issues.

SecretFly wrote:ARROGENT WELSHMEN

Hope that solves some continuity issues.

Even if not spelling ones...

Seriously, glad to see most everyone ridiculing the ratings. My assumption is that the Wales players were being rated out of 12 and the ABs out of 9.

As others have said, I expect it to be a bit like the England v NZ game - not a real humping but a matech where the ABs never really look in danger of defeat and where they finish as much the better side.

^^^

GunsGerms wrote:I also agree on North being better than his opposite number. Hope he makes a backpack out of him.

Yeah ok, as long as North doesn't have to defend.

alive555 wrote:This is a bit more like it -

Leigh Halfpenny 7 v Ben Smith 9
Alex Cuthbert 7 v Julian Savea 10
Jonathan Davies 6 v Conrad Smith 9
George North 8 v Charles Piutau 9
Jamie Roberts 7 v Sonny Bill Williams 9
Dan Biggar 6 v Beauden Barrett 8
Rhys Webb 7 v Aaron Smith 9
Paul James 6 v Owen Franks 9
Richard Hibbard 7 v Dane Coles 8
Samson Lee 6 v Wyatt Crockett 8
Jake Ball 6 v Brodie Retallick 10
Alun Wyn Jones 8 v Sam Whitelock 10
Dan Lydiate 7 v Jerome Kaino 10
Sam Warburton 7 v Richie McCaw 11
Taulupe Faletau 7 v Kieran Read 10

If fully fit and on form then I would put JD up to 8, Faletau up a notch as well but drop North down one due to his defence.

The good thing about this is that not many people who know anything about rugby take the Fail serious and doubt the players will even look at it.

dummy_half wrote:

SecretFly wrote:ARROGENT WELSHMEN

Hope that solves some continuity issues.

Even if not spelling ones...

Seriously, glad to see most everyone ridiculing the ratings. My assumption is that the Wales players were being rated out of 12 and the ABs out of 9.

As others have said, I expect it to be a bit like the England v NZ game - not a real humping but a matech where the ABs never really look in danger of defeat and where they finish as much the better side.

Is this New Zealand's last game of their season?

I think they (ABs) might be more in a mood to drive as hard as they can through their last game, (knowing a rest up is just around the bend). And I feel they might want to make a parting statement to the NH whilst using poor Wales to do it.
McCaw's 100th Captaincy game.  Plus Hanson has let it be known that Rhys Webb's comment didn't go unheard:  "They obviously have a lot of self-belief in themselves. And when a team is like that you expect them to play well. Saturday will tell us whether we're there for the taking."

Could be a close game...could be a rout.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Cyril wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Some total crap spouted by NZ and A Africa as usual, but to be expected with spattrings of English nonsense.  A great BIG yawn fest.

It's a Welsh article....

The responses are not but what the hell it's an expected response in this hole.

You live in a hole?

Lived in England once, thought they should fill it in.

You're some kind of hole....

The ratings might be reflective of a poor AB showing combined with a good Welsh showing. Head to head the ABs would come out well ahead of any side yet last 12 months we've lost to SA once and drawn with Aus, and, have had many close calls- England twice-ish, Ireland, SA and Oz again, Scotland.

So if the gap is as big as people think it is, so should the wins/ margins be. 2014 is definitely a drop off from the heights of last year and our major advantage is having rested the players last week. We need another performance like oz at Eden park to justify any significant head to head ratings.

Our side is winning because of team resolve, not individual matchoffs. so individually I don't think we are really that far ahead- based on the results.

Can't believe how many people are falling for Andy Bowell's clickbait journalism. At least Hammer of Thunor has it sussed.

Bowell writes silly things knowing he will get increased traffic onto his articles. Nobody in Wales respects this guy, much the same as not many respect his rag of a newspaper. Food for thought (to borrow one of his lines).

Risca Rev wrote:Can't believe how many people are falling for Andy Bowell's clickbait journalism. At least Hammer of Thunor has it sussed.

Bowell writes silly things knowing he will get increased traffic onto his articles. Nobody in Wales respects this guy, much the same as not many respect his rag of a newspaper. Food for thought (to borrow one of his lines).

Don't think many are falling for it, the comments under the article itself confirming that...But should Wales win...Bowell will be the source of truth

How they rated Cuthbert, Davies and Lydiate that high I don't know. The rest are spot on though .

Is this New Zealand's last game of their season?


Dont know about that. But i do know the this will the 100th time Mc Caw as captained the All Blacks. And nobody in that team will want to be on the losing side.

So i think the Abs will win. And not disappoint their captain Richie Mcaw.

I wonder why Alun Wynn Jones wouldnt walk into all International teams in the World, guess its got something to do with those countries having better players in his position...

majesticimperialman wrote:Is this New Zealand's last game of their season?


Dont know about that. But i do know the this will the 100th time Mc Caw as captained the All Blacks. And nobody in that team will want to be on the losing side.

So i think the Abs will win. And not disappoint their captain Richie Mcaw.

Yes, it is the All Blacks last game of the season and Richie's 100th, McCaw Is probably the most successful National Sports team captain of all time of any code anywhere in the World.

aucklandlaurie wrote: I wonder why Alun Wynn Jones wouldnt  walk into all International teams in the World, guess its got something to do with those countries having better players in his position...

Nice.

Griff wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote: I wonder why Alun Wynn Jones wouldnt  walk into all International teams in the World, guess its got something to do with those countries having better players in his position...

Nice.

A team to be admired followed by a bunch of fans to be loathed.

To be honest they all seem great on here (Taylorman, Disney, et al.) apart from Laurie. He seems to have an 'edge'. A bit like our own Rainbow Warrior I guess.

Rainbow Warrior is a really good, knowledgable poster.

What do you mean by an 'edge'?

As in 'aggro'.

I dont think so, its probably just the way how the written word gives a different perception at times, compared to when you converse with someone face to face, and all dynamics are there before you.

Our AB has 11-20 as the fave bet with both 1-12 and 21-30 a touch over. I'm not so sure we are as good on the field as this team on paper suggests.

Individually theyre all very good players but with so many changes to combinations right through the side this year they've just not been able to settle. Only two really good performances- England 3rd test and Oz at Eden Park anything convincing.

Having them rest last week makes this another experiment so there's a funny feeling to this one. Narrow win again I think.

I think you're being kind Taylorman! Realistically 1st in the world vs 7/8/9 (I don't even want to look), even away from home for you guys, will be a walk in the park. We haven't troubled you even at the height of our recent (albeit European) peaks of 2008, 2012 and 2013 (actually we didn't play in 2013 but we didn't beat anyone else of note that year either).

I predict one of two things will happen (the norm for Wales v NZ games): either a) it will be fairly close (I.e. Within a score) at half time but NZ will pull away and win comfortably by more than 2 converted tries, or b) Wales will go behind extremely early like the first minute (we often seem to concede very early tries to the ABs), be down by up to 20 points and, when NZ ease off a bit, we'll perhaps strike back to finish within 10 points and claim the moral victory!

You read it here first folks!

P.s. If b) from above happens then I guarantee that at some point during the commentary or analysis you'll hear something along the lines of "well the encouraging thing is that we won the last 30 mins by 20 points or 5" or "we were able to outscore the All Blacks 3 tries to nil in the second half" (while conceding 6 in the first half!). Our media are the kings of the sliver lining.

Griff wrote:P.s. If b) from above happens then I guarantee that at some point during the commentary or analysis you'll hear something along the lines of "well the encouraging thing is that we won the last 30 mins by 20 points or 5" or "we were able to outscore the All Blacks 3 tries to nil in the second half" (while conceding 6 in the first half!). Our media are the kings of the sliver lining.

Yes normally I'd go with that kind of thinking but this year has just been odd. We fielded just as good a side in Brisbane and the W's were in all sorts of disarray and we only just hung on there so either this side is overestimated or its suffering from lack of continuity with many positional changes since the England tour, where we peaked.

The Saint wrote:Rainbow Warrior is a really good, knowledgable poster.

yes he's a good little kiwi...

The Saint wrote:Rainbow Warrior is a really good, knowledgable poster.

Rainbow is the Welsh version of Tokyo Rose.

HammerofThunor wrote:I just want to check that everyone is aware that the job of media is not to inform or make sensible comments. It's to increase traffic to sell advertising. Open himself to ridicule is exactly what he's done. Although, even when done 'right' these sorts of things are nonsense. As though you can rate any individual part of the team properly when each is dependent on the others.

That shouldn't be the job of the media. Mass education and absolute neutrality are a vital part of making a functional society and the way our media has rejected the responsibilities they have and the roles that I think have more capacity for good or harm than most people realise makes me sick.


This article, however, is just funny, surely it's satirical?

Taylorman wrote:The ratings might be reflective of a poor AB showing combined with a good Welsh showing. Head to head the ABs would come out well ahead of any side yet last 12 months we've lost to SA once and drawn with Aus, and, have had many close calls- England twice-ish, Ireland, SA and Oz again, Scotland.

So if the gap is as big as people think it is, so should the wins/ margins be. 2014 is definitely a drop off from the heights of last year and our major advantage is having rested the players last week. We need another performance like oz at Eden park to justify any significant head to head ratings.

Our side is winning because of team resolve, not individual matchoffs. so individually I don't think we are really that far ahead- based on the results.

I expect you missed Wales vs Fiji then?

ChequeredJersey wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I just want to check that everyone is aware that the job of media is not to inform or make sensible comments. It's to increase traffic to sell advertising. Open himself to ridicule is exactly what he's done. Although, even when done 'right' these sorts of things are nonsense. As though you can rate any individual part of the team properly when each is dependent on the others.

That shouldn't be the job of the media. Mass education and absolute neutrality are a vital part of making a functional society and the way our media has rejected the responsibilities they have and the roles that I think have more capacity for good or harm than most people realise makes me sick.


This article, however, is just funny, surely it's satirical?

Sadly I don't think it is CJ. And unfortunately the gullible, occasional fans in Wales will buy into this and have unrealistic expectations. The boo boys will be out in force if the Welsh players do not live up to their billing. And unfortunately there will be fans from other nations who buy into this and tar the whole nation with the 'arrogant' brush!

I wish there was some way of making journalists responsible for the cr@p they write!

There is a way Griff and the power is in the hands of the readers. Unfortunately nowadays instead of writing their own stories newspapers like to seize on controversial click bait pieces as a means of ensuring they get enough advertising revenue.

Much like a troll, if you indulge in their not so hidden agenda, you feed and sustain them. Ignore them and they cannot justify their own existence. Like the player ratings after a match - how does one arrive at a score out of ten for 15 different positions - this meaningless froth is all about milking the cow before or after the match and not having to come up with some meaningful and original thought.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I just want to check that everyone is aware that the job of media is not to inform or make sensible comments. It's to increase traffic to sell advertising. Open himself to ridicule is exactly what he's done. Although, even when done 'right' these sorts of things are nonsense. As though you can rate any individual part of the team properly when each is dependent on the others.

That shouldn't be the job of the media. Mass education and absolute neutrality are a vital part of making a functional society and the way our media has rejected the responsibilities they have and the roles that I think have more capacity for good or harm than most people realise makes me sick.


This article, however, is just funny, surely it's satirical?

Aye, it's a bugger. But that's life. And why I don't buy any newspapers.

TEN THINGS WALES NEED TO DO TO BEAT THE ALL BLACKS! NUMBER 7 IS UNBELIEVEABLE!

WE ANALYSED THE WELSH AND NZ PLAYER STATS, YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT WE FOUND OUT!

GWYN JONES, ANALYSES BOTH SIDES GAME PLANS, COACHES HATE HIM!

Breadvan wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Cyril wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Some total crap spouted by NZ and A Africa as usual, but to be expected with spattrings of English nonsense.  A great BIG yawn fest.

It's a Welsh article....

The responses are not but what the hell it's an expected response in this hole.

You live in a hole?

Lived in England once, thought they should fill it in.

You're some kind of hole....

Yeah and I believe your an ass

aucklandlaurie wrote:

The Saint wrote:Rainbow Warrior is a really good, knowledgable poster.

Rainbow is the Welsh version of Tokyo Rose.

Yeah something like all you hard motha ******* kiwis huh woof woof woof woof

See Rainbow is still as classy as ever....

I just hope for a similar attacking display as against Australia, no one is expecting a win so have a go

GeordieFalcon wrote:See Rainbow is still as classy as ever....

Just like you and all the others using a daft article to slag off Wales I guess. I find most of the rubbish is coming from fans of teams that have suffered a good beating or two by Wales in recent years. Coincidence orrrr...

The Saint wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:See Rainbow is still as classy as ever....

Just like you and all the others using a daft article to slag off Wales I guess. I find most of the rubbish is coming from fans of teams that have suffered a good beating or two by Wales in recent years. Coincidence orrrr...

i don't think anyone has been slagging of Wales, more the individual ratings (that I'm pretty sure you'd agree are quite funny).

I can see NZ & SA fans having a laugh at the ratings and I can't recall either of those sides "suffering a good or two by Wales" in recent times.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

The Saint wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:See Rainbow is still as classy as ever....

Just like you and all the others using a daft article to slag off Wales I guess. I find most of the rubbish is coming from fans of teams that have suffered a good beating or two by Wales in recent years. Coincidence orrrr...

i don't think anyone has been slagging of Wales, more the individual ratings (that I'm pretty sure you'd agree are quite funny).

I can see NZ & SA fans having a laugh at the ratings and I can't recall either of those sides "suffering a good or two by Wales" in recent times.

Not how I interpreted the majority of the comments. The ratings are poor and inaccurate, so discuss them instead of the Wales team instead maybe, or not at all.

I can see a few English and Scots in the slanging match, I recall either of those sides suffering a good beating or two by Wales in recent times. I didn't really come across many bad comments from NZ and SA fans, hence me saying "I find most of the rubbish is coming from fans of teams that have suffered a good beating or two by Wales in recent years." Nice attempt at coat-tailing those guys teams again though.

I can't see why England hammering Wales last time they met has any relevance on player ratings compared to NZ players??

Just see it for what it is, tongue in cheek. If this was English/Irish/Scottish players instead of Welsh it would be getting exactly the same response, stop being so fragile.

The Saint wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:See Rainbow is still as classy as ever....

Just like you and all the others using a daft article to slag off Wales I guess. I find most of the rubbish is coming from fans of teams that have suffered a good beating or two by Wales in recent years. Coincidence orrrr...

Please show me where I have slagged Wales off.

The only thing ive said about Wales was to comment on Priestlands hideous tash...which in all honesty is a fair comment...

If you are referring to Rainbow then yes I find him aggressive, demeaning and insulting. But that's directed at one person not the nation that is Wales. A country that Rainbow indeed went to the other side of the world to get away from...then proceeds to insult the new nation he lives in.

Well if the western mail wanted to start a duscussion, albeit one about how poor they're ratings are then they achieved that. Ha. Hope for a great game. With Wales being 9.73/10 all blacks 8.932/10 ref 8.322/10 and the pitch being 1/13

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I can't see why England hammering Wales last time they met has any relevance on player ratings compared to NZ players??

Just see it for what it is, tongue in cheek. If this was English/Irish/Scottish players instead of Welsh it would be getting exactly the same response, stop being so fragile.

Who said that was related to the player ratings? I clearly stated that it related to fans attitudes. So only a dumb person would interpret it like that. Also, what I stated was that it was from fans of teams that have suffered beating by Wales in recent years. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 2013 is a fairly recent year, and surely you remember your Grand Slam party being ruined by a sound 30-3 beating? There we have it.

I think you know what you were up to when you put that title. Again, why don't you discuss the rating or article rather than trying to bring down the players. If you concentrated on discussing your own teams consistent failings you'd have less time to slag off others. So I think we now see what the purpose of this thread was.

Why feel the need to resort to personal insults Saint?

If you're insulted then I think it's you that is being fragile. Also I don't see who I directly insulted, so please refrain from being fragile and wasting moderator time on an international weekend. Furthermore, try to refrain from slagging off teams if you don't want to hear what their fans have to say.