The greatest heavyweight.....

First topic message reminder :

...since Ali?

I think most would have Ali as the number 1 greatest heavyweight ever but who has been the best heavyweight since?

Discuss!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Hammer has worked you over enough...Pointing out all your hypocritical statements..

My sadistic side kind of relishes watching him stick the boot in.....

It's wrong I know....

I aim to be a better human being in 2015..

He worked me over like Spinks worked over Tyson.

Haz is greedy..........

The rest of us have double standards.............He has treble....

KO magazine..... are respected when agreeing with him about lists !!........Useless when scoring Leonard- Hagler 118-111........

Linear titles count when it suits him.....Yep it makes Dokes look better than he was !!

Early blowouts don't tell us anything when he is having a pop at Lewis.............Schmelling was Louis greatest win !!..

He likes Duran so he partied before the Leonard 2 fight despite making 147 !!.......But of course Leonard was at his complete best in the first fight...

Hagler battered Leonard.....Even though he boogied like Jacko...Did the Ali shuffle and bolo'd his way through the last round............Because Haz likes Hagler !!

Give it a rest pal............

When exactly was Dokes linear champion anyway

Ali
Holmes
Spinks
Tyson
Douglas
Holyfield
Bowe
Holyfield
Moorer
Foreman
Briggs
Lewis

Hammersmith harrier wrote:When exactly was Dokes linear champion anyway

Ali
Holmes
Spinks
Tyson
Douglas
Holyfield
Bowe
Holyfield
Moorer
Foreman
Briggs
Lewis

Top prize to the board pedant! What a super brain.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Haz is greedy..........

The rest of us have double standards.............He has treble....

KO magazine..... are respected when agreeing with him about lists !!........Useless when scoring Leonard- Hagler 118-111........

Linear titles count when it suits him.....Yep it makes Dokes look better than he was !!

Early blowouts don't tell us anything when he is having a pop at Lewis.............Schmelling was Louis greatest win !!..

He likes Duran so he partied before the Leonard 2 fight despite making 147 !!.......But of course Leonard was at his complete best in the first fight...

Hagler battered Leonard.....Even though he boogied like Jacko...Did the Ali shuffle and bolo'd his way through the last round............Because Haz likes Hagler !!

Give it a rest pal............

This how I imagine hell......

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:When exactly was Dokes linear champion anyway

Ali
Holmes
Spinks
Tyson
Douglas
Holyfield
Bowe
Holyfield
Moorer
Foreman
Briggs
Lewis

Top prize to the board pedant! What a super brain.

You wrote Dokes was a linear champ, Haz !!!............Instead of insults...back it up !!

Stop crying....For goodness sake.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:When exactly was Dokes linear champion anyway

Ali
Holmes
Spinks
Tyson
Douglas
Holyfield
Bowe
Holyfield
Moorer
Foreman
Briggs
Lewis

Top prize to the board pedant! What a super brain.

You wrote Dokes was a linear champ, Haz !!!............Instead of insults...back it up !!

Stop crying....For goodness sake.

I'm drowning in my own tears here...

I'm like the UK version of Roy Orbison.

The great Michael Dokes....................Drew with Cobb...........Jumped on Weaver and got a gift draw in the rematch..........and then lost to the awful Tate and Weaver-whacked Coetzee.......

Then again If he was a linear champ.............That makes him ten times better !!

Shame he wasn't............

But if some journalist say's he is...........It would make him the best journalist in the World !!

Am I right !!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The great Michael Dokes....................Drew with Cobb...........Jumped on Weaver and got a gift draw in the rematch..........and then lost to the awful Tate and Weaver-whacked Coetzee.......

Then again If he was a linear champ.............That makes him ten times better !!

Shame he wasn't............

But if some journalist say's he is...........It would make him the best journalist in the World !!

Am I right !!

Very rarely, if ever.

Cliff Rold's take:

http://www.boxingscene.com/-top-25-heavyweights-all-time-top-ten--26161

6) Evander Holyfield (1984-Present)
Record: 42-10-2, 27 KO
Lineal World Champion 1990-92, 3 Defenses; 93-94
WBC/WBA/IBF Titlist 1990-92, 3 Defenses; WBA/IBF Titlist 93-94; WBA Titlist 1996-99, 4 Defenses; WBA 2000-01
Heavyweight Titlists/Champions Faced – 15: (Pinklon Thomas, Michael Dokes, Buster Douglas, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer, Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, John Ruiz, Hasim Rahman, Chris Byrd, Sultan Ibragimov, Nicolay Valuev)

After a unifying title run which marked, and marks, him fairly easily as the top Cruiserweight yet to compete there, Atlanta’s 1984 U.S. Olympic Bronze Medalist moved into the Heavyweight ranks in July 1988 with a fifth round stoppage of James Tillis. It was the first of seven straight knockouts in his Heavyweight tenure, part of thirteen straight overall. By March 1989, the “Real Deal” was facing even tougher competition, warring with resurgent former titlist Michael Dokes in a savage affair, Holyfield triumphing in round ten. Two fight later in the year, in November, it was another classic encounter, Holyfield stopping an undefeated Alex Stewart in eight. With buzz building for a shot at then-Heavyweight king Mike Tyson, Holyfield became the mandatory contender to all of Tyson’s belts only to be forced to wait and finding his shot instead through “Buster” Douglas. Holyfield made the most of it, stopping a lackluster Douglas with a right hand in round three. With Tyson still the brass ring, Holyfield set an early pay-per-view sales record with George Foreman in April 1991, the two combining for a spirited battle over twelve full rounds. Tyson seemed finally to be next but a reported rib injury scuttled their November 1991 encounter, leaving Holyfield with a replacement opponent (Francesco Damiani) and, when that fell through, a replacement for a replacement. Suffering his first official knockdown in round three, Holyfield averted disaster by recuperating and stopping veteran Bert Cooper in seven. He followed with a tougher than expected defense against former champion Larry Holmes in June 1992, needing a strong second half for the win, and found a public unsatisfied with a reign which featured two former champions over 40 as opponents. Holyfield got the public back in his first defeat, a November 1992 war with Riddick Bowe. Announcing his retirement, Holyfield quickly capitulated and, one year later, they did it again. Changing tactics and using a more controlled strategy, Holyfield nipped Bowe by majority decision in a great fight often overshadowed by a seventh round interruption from the infamous “Fan Man.” With the win he became only the third man to regain the lineal World championship but five months later, with a scored second round knockdown offset by shoulder and originally diagnosed heart problems, lost the crown to Michael Moorer via majority decision. Holyfield, believing himself faith healed and given a clean bill of health by real doctors, returned thirteen months later to face Ray Mercer, dropping the steel chinned veteran for the first time and winning on points to set up a rubber match with Bowe; oddly lethargic, Holyfield would score a sixth round knockdown only to be stopped in eight. Believed well past his prime, Holyfield summoned a final defining run. Two fights after Bowe, he received his long desired crack at a Tyson returned from prison for the WBA belt, dropping “Iron” Mike in the sixth and stopping him in round eleven. Their biting rematch came and went in June 1997 and Holyfield followed with a November shot at revenge against Moorer, unifying the WBA and IBF belts with five knockdowns before a stop in round eight. Two fights later in March 1999, Holyfield was dominated in Madison Square Garden by lineal and WBC champ Lewis, lucky to leave with a draw. Despite an improved performance, his chance to match Ali’s feat of three legitimate Heavyweight championships was stymied by Lewis in their November rematch. Aged 37 by the Lewis rematch, Holyfield continued and continues on. The highlights have been few. A trilogy against John Ruiz for the WBA belt resulted in a win, loss, and draw between 2000-01; a June 2002 fight with then recently deposed former champion Hasim Rahman was won fairly easily; and in 2007 and 08, he got shots at belts against Sultan Ibragimov and Nicolay Valuev, competing well with the first and losing a contestable decision to the latter. Losses to Chris Byrd by decision in 2002 and James Toney by stoppage in 2003 were more indicative of how far he’d slipped.

Why He’s Here: The only active fighter on the list, Holyfield is included because he’s so old, so far past his prime, that his continued activity is irrelevant to his historical standing. Any big wins now serve only to delegitimize whomever he defeats. Holyfield was at the heart of what might have been the second best era in Heavyweight history. He was its best and most consistently thrilling fighter. Juxtapose that with the notion that, for years, Holyfield dealt with derision from unsatisfied masses. Because he didn’t beat Tyson for the title the first time, because he had achieved first in the infant Cruiserweight class, Holyfield’s legitimacy was questioned. The claim of ‘blown up Cruiserweight’ dogged him and is laughable in the context of time. Prior to the very late 1970s, there was a name for anyone who fought above 175 pounds: Heavyweight. Holyfield may not have been the biggest man of his day, but he was a big man in any era. The fighters he beat at Cruiserweight can’t technically count towards his Heavyweight resume because the latter division did exist, but they were also the sort of wins many Heavyweight contenders have had on the way up (if not better than some). At Heavyweight, it can be argued that Holyfield suffered from an inconsistency of results, but that didn’t become an issue until after the age of 30. To his credit, Holyfield showed the mark of a great fighter in being able to improve in rematches and avenged both of his first two losses to Bowe and Moorer. The knockout loss to Bowe in the rubber match was the only such end he suffered before the age of 40 and the only time he finished off his feet. Part of what made him great was not just adaptability to foes; he also adapted his style from a whirlwind of activity to a more controlled, and yes occasionally dirty, thinking man in the ring. While, despite the verdict, the first Lewis fight at age 36 should be considered a loss, the rematch performance is often overlooked. Holyfield rocked Lewis in the bout and some in the press favored Holyfield as the winner; a draw would have been as fair there as it was not the first time. He also can point to besting a better version of Tyson than Lewis and a superior win over Ray Mercer, dropping the steel chinned former Olympian for the first time in 1995. From rising officially to Heavyweight in 1988 through the Rahman win in 1992, Holyfield remained as or among the best Heavyweights in the world for a remarkable fourteen years. Holyfield is not yet eligible for the IBHOF.

All your comments now make sense, they are all basically word for word taken from that one article of which there are countless contradictory ones out there but because they rate Lewis higher you'll ignore them. What a clown.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:All your comments now make sense, they are all basically word for word taken from that one article of which there are countless contradictory ones out there but because they rate Lewis higher you'll ignore them. What a clown.

You have offered nothing to this thread other than a succession of insults you'd never dare offer in person. Unlike yourself I actually know about boxing - and that era in particular - rather than BoxRec.

You have never, ever posted anything arresting, challenging or interesting despite your seething ambition to be taken seriously.

What exactly have I taken from that article "word for word"? It's basically a timeline of his career - how can you plagiarise facts? Which articles have I ignored?

You're a petty little weasel who can't stand being walloped in a debate and so resort to either nitpicking or insults. You're a troll and nothing more. The mods lets you and your sidekicks flood the board with s hit as you increase posts and presumably site hits. Little wonder no-one with more than a passing interest in the sport posts here any more - you can't debate with idiots and simpletons.

Bit of a shame really.

Absolutely priceless, all you've down is copy segments of that article and pass it off as your own, sorry but i'm genuinely laughing at your transparency now. You can say you know about boxing all you want but it doesn't make it true Haz, without having an article to read on any given subject your lost.

The IRONY in that post as well, you know accusing others of petty insults and you're right i'd be cowering in a corner if I had the misfortune of meeting you in person.

Truly truly pathetic and you lack the intellect to understand why.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Absolutely priceless, all you've down is copy segments of that article and pass it off as your own, sorry but i'm genuinely laughing at your transparency now. You can say you know about boxing all you want but it doesn't make it true Haz, without having an article to read on any given subject your lost.

The IRONY in that post as well, you know accusing others of petty insults and you're right i'd be cowering in a corner if I had the misfortune of meeting you in person.

Truly truly pathetic and you lack the intellect to understand why.

Yeah, you've got me stumped alright BoxRec. I'm so clueless I had to plagiarise the timeline of Holyfield's career as I couldn't remember it. Thank God for my pal Cliff.

It's the descriptions of fights and in particular the assessment of the second Lewis fight which is woefully wrong and do you honestly believe you've offered anything to this debate aside from biased waffle.

Boxrec was a massive help in assessing a boxer I watched during the 90's, my memory is so poor I had to resort to simply reading the results and guessing what happened during the bouts.

I need to be careful though because you're obviously someone to fear in real life and i'd be so worried i'd be unable to tell you what a prat you are to your pitiful face.

Plagiarised it to such an extent I cocked up in labelling Dokes a linear champ!

At his optimum, Lewis was probably a better heavyweight than Holyfield. Much in the same way Bowe probably was too. Overall I dont think either could claim to have a greater career or displayed more of the virtues of greatness than Holyfield. A lot of people seem to treat ranking fighters like maths equations: Fighter A won X amount and lost Y amount and had Z defenses divided by %longetivety = greater than. Probably one of the reasons why Mayweather and Klitschko get rated so highly in comparison to far greater boxers who risked more against greater opposition.

Holyfield fought everyone there was to fight whether he was young or old, turned in plenty of great performances, scored some huge upsets, performed heriocally in many of his defeats, had plenty of great fights and great performances. Lewis might have him in the number crunchers but never reached the greatness that Holyfield displayed despite arguably being the more formidable heavyweight (when fully switched on).

Do you believe he did it clean catchy? Genuine question. I'm no roid expert, and I've no doubt its rife, but Evan fields aside, his transformation from cruiser to heavy was marquezesque.

No but they were more than likely all at it. The 90s heavyweight scene was a steroid fest and I doubt much has changed to present day.

From BoxRec:

Holyfield was hospitalized after the fight. He was suffering from dehydration and a rotator-cuff injury. A kidney bruise was also discovered. He was given a large amount of liquids for the kidney problem, but his lungs filled because his heart was not able to pump the fluids out. He was then diagnosed as having a noncompliant left ventricle. Holyfield retired as a result. [3] A couple of months later, Holyfield said he had been cured by evangelist Benny Hinn. [4] Holyfield went to the Mayo Clinic and was given a clean bill of health. He was told the heart condition appeared because he was over-medicated and over-hydrated in the treatment he received after the Moorer fight. [5] Years later, Dr. Margaret Goodman, former chairman of the medical advisory board of Nevada Athletic Commission, said that the medical arm of the Commission questioned Holyfield about possible HGH use. "There were questions [because] the abnormalities Evander had with his heart were findings that could have been consistent with growth hormone use. The problem was there was no test and Evander denied any use of growth hormone."