Djokovic party time!!!

First topic message reminder :

It is no small accomplishment joining the Agassi, Connors, and Lendl club in total slams. The man deserves his due. He is a player who has been number for 3 out of the last 4 years and is looking to become number one for 4th year out of 5. He doesn't win easy, he plays in more tough slam matches than anyone. He wins some and he loses some. But nobody, and I mean nobody has won as many AO titles in the open era as on Novak Djokovic. Lets appreciate the many things that are wonderful about Novak. Best returner in the world who got through two crap service performances at the tail end of the AO by abusing his opponents serve. But he is one of the great players in the history of this game. And you can knock him if you like but you can't change the facts. Novak is an all time great.

Belovedluckyboy wrote:We have to agree to disagree, about Rafa running around his BH instead of using his CC BH.  Like I said, he ran around his BH to hit his FHDTL most of the times.  When his CCBH was so solid, it won't be necessary for him to run around it to hit his I/O CCFH.  Watch his AO 2009 final vs Fed, and see how many BH winners he made then.  I didn't claim that Rafa was hitting his I/O CCFH only now that his BH deteriorated, I said most players hit the I/O CCFH when they had the chances, and Rafa wasnt any exception.  

You seem adamant in saying that Rafa has a not so ideal BH, that he has to run around it to hit his FH.  He certainly need not do that during 2008 and the AO2009.  The commentators of that AO2009 match even mentioned that Rafa's BH was ranked top three among the DHBH, together with Novak and Murray.

You talked as if Novak had a better FH than Fed!  Come on, if Rafa's CCBH was as solid as during his AO2009, you think Novak could force the errors out of it?  Chances are Rafa would have scored some BH winners already, before Novak could even think of redirecting the shot! Rafa's BH was no longer that solid, if not how come Fed was also attacking Rafa's BH these
days? Watch Rafa/Novak IW and Miami 2011 matches, and see how Rafa's BH broke down when under constant attack.

What are you talking about you are completely mis-reading my post.

1. Nadal from day one ran around almost every backhand imaginable not because his backhand was bad but because his forehand is lethal.

2. His CC BH is great, I said he hits the downline the line backhand like my granny. His CC BH was great before and is still great. You are the one claiming that his CC backhand has deteriorated that is why he runs around his backhand more than in the past. This is simply wrong, he always runs around his backhand from day one till now.

3. The part about Novak's FH being better than Fed's is not a point I am making or ever have made. The point is that Novak's down the line backhand is better than Federer's therefore he can get at Nadal's backhand more easily. Why because by changing direction he breaks the typical Nadal pattern of play of hitting his CC FH to the oponents CC BH. By going up the line into that cavern of space often Novak edges him over into that part of the court and therefore opens up the court on the otherside.

As I said watch Fed v. Nadal and watch Djoko v. Nadal and for ten points count the number of backhands Nadal hits against Fed and v. Novak. Federer wants to attack Nadal's backhand but can't because he can't go down the line with his one hander off a high heavy ball like Novak can with his two hander. Nowhere did I say anything about Novak having a better FH than Federer.

1) as I said, you're wrong to say that Rafa 'run around almost every backhand possible'. I don't see that earlier on during his career, not even before 2009! He did that only when he needed to hit a DTL shot, and when he was in a good position to hit his I/O CCFH, unless that's what you meant by 'almost every backhand possible!'

2) no, his CC BH isn't as good as before, this we have to disagree ( Bogbrush agreed with me on this).

3) like I said, if Rafa's CC BH was solid as before, even if Novak was to hit his BHDTL to Rafa's BH, Rafa could at least redirect it CC to Novak's FH and then reset the whole point again. Right now, Rafa would overhit his CCBH when he tries to change direction, and that's the problem he has when facing Novak. Even with a normal CCBH vs Novak's CCFH now, Rafa would tend to overhit or mishit his BH, and to me that's the main problem for Rafa. On clay, Rafa could still have the time to run around his BH to hit his I/O CCFH, on other surfaces, he won't have the time.

Belovedluckyboy wrote:1) as I said, you're wrong to say that Rafa 'run around almost every backhand possible'.  I don't see that earlier on during his career, not even before 2009!   He did that only when he needed to hit a DTL shot, and when he was in a good position to hit his I/O CCFH, unless that's what you meant by 'almost every backhand possible!'

2) no, his CC BH isn't as good as before, this we have to disagree ( Bogbrush agreed with me on this).

3) like I said, if Rafa's CC BH was solid as before, even if Novak was to hit his BHDTL to Rafa's BH, Rafa could at least redirect it CC to Novak's FH and then reset the whole point again.  Right now, Rafa would overhit his CCBH when he tries to change direction, and that's the problem he has when facing Novak.  Even with a normal CCBH vs Novak's CCFH now, Rafa would tend to overhit or mishit his BH, and to me that's the main problem for Rafa.   On clay, Rafa could still have the time to run around his BH to hit his I/O CCFH, on other surfaces, he won't have the time.

Ok, I am at a loss, how many people who have watched Nadal play actually think that he began to running around his backhand in 2009? And that he did this to hide his now weak CC BH. As for BB agreeing with you that is fine. It doesn't make either of you right and doesn't change the fact that you are just wrong. Anyone who watches Novak v. Rafa can see how Novak makes Nadal hit more BHs than any other player via the use of the up the line backhand. And anyone who has watched Nadal knows that he didn't start running around every BH possible to turn it into a forehand starting in 09. If you want to be wrong go ahead but I just don't accept your version of reality.

Maybe some tennis fans can help me here, did Nadal start running around every BH possible to turn it into a FH starting in 09 or as I posit was that the way he always plays?

Rafa tends to hit more sliced BHs these days, maybe to buy time for him to run around to hit his FH, another sign that his normal BH has weakened?

SoCal, I suggest you read my posts properly, I didn't say that Rafa run around his BH to hit his FH ONLY AFTER 2009, don't twist my words!!

I said 'HE RAN AROUND HIS BH TO HIT HIS FHDTL' because he has a weak BHDTL shot. He also did that when 'HE'S IN. A GOOD POSITION TO HIT A I/O CCFH, LIkE MOST PLAYERS DO WHEN THEY HAVE THE CHANCE'. In the past, he had his lethal CCBH shots which hardly broke down, right now that shot is no longer lethal (at least most of the times) and hence he has to run around his BH to hit his FH more often these days.