6N - Team of Round 2

by **George Carlin** Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:28 am

Just a quick attempt:

01 Vincent Debaty (France)
02 Richard Hibbard (Wales)
03 Martin Castrogiovanni (Italy)
04 Yoann Maestri (France)
05 Alun Wyn Jones (Wales)
06 James Haskell (England)
07 Chris Robshaw (England)
08 Billy Vunipola (England)

09 Rhys Webb (Wales)
10 Jonathan Sexton (Ireland)
11 Jonny May (England)
12 Alex Dunbar (Scotland)
13 Jonathan Joseph (England)
14 Tommy Bowe (Ireland)
15 Leigh Halfpenny (Wales)

Quite difficult to pick standout candidates for some of these - I went back to the official match stats a couple of times.

What makes these threads better is people posting their own teams and rationale, rather than urinating and moaning about other people's selections. I mean, I'm just saying. Very Happy

by **RDW** Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:31 am

Referee - Glen Jackson Whistle

Sorry, couldn't resist!

I think I might just go ban myself.

by Poorfour Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:55 am

That's a reasonable stab, but May wasn't particularly impressive - Liam Williams might have a better shout. Also, I felt Castrogiovanni was struggling in the scrum against Marler, so I'd probably be looking at a different tighthead, maybe Cole.

by captain carrantuohil Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:55 am

It normally goes against the grain to pick a replacement for this type of exercise but I thought that Debaty of France was so impressive during his time on the pitch that he would have to start - much better than Ben Arous, whom he replaced and who got little change out of Ross. Debaty was monstrous in every respect.

Otherwise, I think that this is generally sound team with a couple of exceptions. To me, May proved once again that he is a sprinter, not a rugby player, capable of great feats of athleticism but bereft of anything resembling a rugby brain. Would have Liam Williams in his place. I'd also pick Hogg at full-back, who is fulfilling all his rich attacking potential. Like Williams, he is also picking up some irritating habits (that sort of yelling at officials used to be penalised by penalties and an extra ten metres back in the day) but he's been the stand-out 15 for me in both rounds of the championship so far.

by lostinwales Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:12 am

Its hard to justify Haskell also. I noticed that Guscott had Lydiate on his list but it wasnt the best weekend for blind sides anywhere.

Guscott's list

Marler
Ford
Jarvis
Biagi
AWJ
Lydiate
Warburton
Parisse
Kockott
Sexton
Joseph (on the wing!)
Dunbar
Morisi
Huget
1/2p

Morisi was very good, as was Joseph. Parisse was good but wasnt as good as our biggest fatty. Lots of question marks over that list tbh

Actually just noticed 3 italians vs 2 English after losing by 30 points...

And those two Welsh tight forwards when Scotland had the edge in the scrums etc....

by bluestonevedder Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:20 am

It's ironic. Last week there was a lot of chat about how certain players often get into 'team of the week' due to reputation rather than performance. Parisse was mentioned, and now he pops up in Guscott's team! He scored a well-taken try, but that was it. I thought Vunipola outplayed him in that match, and that both Beattie and Heaslip had better games.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:22 am

Well I wouldn't have Webb or Hibbard in there both not good games, when has become slow and needs to get his service back up

by **RDW** Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:23 am

There are some positions that haven't really had anyone stand out (6/8/11) but then there are have been other positions with several stand out players.

At 13 you have Jospeh and Bennett showing that you don't have to be 18st to make it as an international centre. JD2 took his try very well too.

At 15 Hogg is proving to be one of the most dangerous open field runners in Europe just now, Kearney is his usual barntorming self, 1/2P is reliable as always and Brown has been strong.

At 12 Dunbar, Roberts and Henshaw are having strong tournaments.

by lostinwales Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:25 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:There are some positions that haven't really had anyone stand out (6/8/11) but then there are have been other positions with several stand out players.

At 13 you have Jospeh and Bennett showing that you don't have to be 18st to make it as an international centre. JD2 took his try very well too.

At 15 Hogg is proving to be one of the most dangerous open field runners in Europe just now, Kearney is his usual barntorming self, 1/2P is reliable as always and Brown has been strong.

At 12 Dunbar, Roberts and Henshaw are having strong tournaments.

And Morisi. Its all simple stuff, but he was infinitely more effective than anything we saw from Wales the week before.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:33 am

my stab at it:

1. Marler
2. Ford
3. Cole
4. AWJ
5. O'Connell
6. Robshaw
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Sarto
12. Roberts (Dunbar very unlucky but IMO Roberts was the difference between Wales and Scotland)
13. Jospeh
14. Huget
15. Hogg

by **George Carlin** Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:36 am

Having thought about it - I am happy to put Debaty in.

I went back to stats for a number of positions and the numbers support the inclusion of both May and Hibbard. May made more carries for more meters than every other England player bar one - better in each case than Liam Williams. He also made more tackles.

Hibbard got through a pile of work - including winning 2 turnovers. His throwing was at least as good as every other hooker playing this weekend.

by lostinwales Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:39 am

May

He is the current subject of the usual witch hunts. He butchered the overlap (awful) but work he did for the try he made for Cips was very good

by **George Carlin** Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:41 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:There are some positions that haven't really had anyone stand out (6/8/11) but then there are have been other positions with several stand out players.

At 13 you have Jospeh and Bennett showing that you don't have to be 18st to make it as an international centre. JD2 took his try very well too.

At 15 Hogg is proving to be one of the most dangerous open field runners in Europe just now, Kearney is his usual barntorming self, 1/2P is reliable as always and Brown has been strong.

At 12 Dunbar, Roberts and Henshaw are having strong tournaments.

Agree with that - picking a Lions backline would be a nightmare at the moment. I mean, worse than normal.

by dummy_half Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:45 am

Would have Cole in at TH rather than Castro. Not sure England's back row deserves selection on mass, although I only half watched the other two games so wouldn't know who else really shone - Robshaw was fine again, but Haskell was not close to his level v Wales and Billy V had some good moments but has yet to really dominate as he can at his best.

The Italian 13 (Morisi) deserves an honourable mention - the standout performance in the beaten side, but out shone by Joseph. Perhaps the cheat is to name Joseph on the wing for this side, as he spent most of his game notionally as the right winger, and naming Morisi at 13.

Oh, and does Sexton merit the 10 jersey more than Ford, who had a very decent game?

GC
The issue against May's selection is that he made two significant errors, firstly in blowing the chance late in the first half (still think he should just have pinned his ears back and gone straight - would have been past the first defender and would have been very hard for the covering defenders coming across to stop short of the line) and in his failure to prevent the late Italian try when it seemed easier to tackle the guy in to touch than not...

by captain carrantuohil Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:46 am

I believe you if you tell me so about the stats re.May, George. It goes to show that when you're watching the game live, you can miss a lot of what goes on, because my feeling and those of people around me was that May's performance was anything from average to a downright liability.

Tough sport in which to be dispassionate when you're actually at the game; I shall need to take another look when I have a moment.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:49 am

I thought Sarto was the pick from Italy. Despite not scoring I thought he had a great game.

by lostinwales Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:49 am

I'd have to watch that missed tackle again, but from what I remember from where May started it would have been a stunning tackle to take Morisi out. What I am not sure about is why May was not in a better position in the first place.

by Nematode Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:49 am

I'd opt for:

E Marler
E Hartley
E Cole
E Attwood
I O'Connell
E Haskell
E Robshaw
E Vunipola

I Murray
I Sexton
W Williams
S Dunbar
It Morisi
E Joseph
I Kearney

With the player of the round being Sexton.

by captain carrantuohil Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:58 am

Thought Vunipola was excellent, incidentally - certainly the best all-round, 80 minute performance I've seen from him for a good while. Thought O'Mahony was good for Ireland at 6; might give him the nod and let him team up with Billy and Robshaw in the back row.

As most have said though, while there have been a lot of good moments, the performances of all teams so far have contained enough of the curate's egg to make it difficult to be too dogmatic about this. I wonder whether Saint-Andre might have accidentally stumbled on the next really good French front row, for instance, and whether they might have a considerable say in the eventual team of the championship. For now, to repeat the comments of others again, there are some positions where there have been an embarrassment of riches and others (starting wings, hookers for example) where no-one has really stuck his hand up and demanded inclusion. Still early days, I guess.

by lostinwales Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:28 pm

Telegraph team

Jenkins
Ford
Cole
POC
AWJ
POM
Robshaw
Parisse
Youngs
Sexton
Huget
JDII (?)
morisi
jj
hogg

3 outside centers....

by bedfordwelsh Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:08 pm

lostinwales wrote:Telegraph team

Jenkins
Ford
Cole
POC
AWJ
POM
Robshaw
Parisse
Youngs
Sexton
Huget
JDII (?)
morisi
jj
hogg

3 outside centers....

Jenkins, that's just hilarious he wasn't picked for his scrummaging then that's for sure.

by Gwlad Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:17 pm

Hibbard? Webb?

Did Haskell have another stormer?

by lostinwales Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:43 pm

Gwlad wrote:Hibbard? Webb?

Did Haskell have another stormer?

None of those 3 should be in a team of the week, but then its easier to discount players than include them.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:38 pm

First thing is that I watched England avidly, while watching the others with just half an eye.

Marler
Ford
Cole
POC
Kruis
POM
Robshaw
???????????
Murray
Sexton
Williams
????????????
Morisi
Joseph (I know he wore 13 but for 70 minutes was on the wing)
1/2p

Struggling for No8. BillyV played well but only Italy. Thought the rest were nothing special. No-one who started at 12 shone for me. 36 put in a decent game but as with Vunipola only against Italy.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:00 pm

LT,

I thought Attwood showed up better for you guys rather than Kruis, agree on the No8 there were some good performances but no one stood out really.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:11 pm

That Attwood was pulled after 50 minutes counts against him.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:20 pm

Maybe that's how the Telegraph justified picking Jenkins then given fact he was on for nearly 70 minutes god knows why or how though

by maestegmafia Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:23 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Jenkins, that's just hilarious he wasn't picked for his scrummaging then that's for sure.

He was in great form, turned over ball tackled well set up play. He can hardly be held accountable for the scrum issues, something that James didn't improve when he came on.

I think it's a fair call by the telegraph he was one of our best forwards.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:29 pm

How can he not be held accountable for the scrums when he's a prop. he got stuffed from the first to last scrum as he did last week

by Gwlad Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:39 pm

Jenkins has 5 games left for Wales and then he will retire

by WELL-PAST-IT Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:50 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:

Jenkins, that's just hilarious he wasn't picked for his scrummaging then that's for sure.

He was in great form, turned over ball tackled well set up play. He can hardly be held accountable for the scrum issues, something that James didn't improve when he came on.

I think it's a fair call by the telegraph he was one of our best forwards.

God help Wales then, how many penalties did he give away?

A props job is to prop, not act as a backrow forward. If he fails in his primary duty the pack is on the back foot or conceding penalties. Jenkins was found out as soon as the hit was outlawed, same as Jones. Wales have not had a decent scrum since. Both players have since acknowledged that they "cheated" and as a result can hardly hold a place in the regional sides with the current laws.

by whocares Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:47 pm

Nothing very different from some of the posters teams , this is the team of french rugby paper / website midi olympique / rugbyrama

1 Marler
2 Hartley
3 Atonio
4 AWJ
5 Maestri
6 Warbs
7 POM
8 billy V
9 Murray
10 sexton
11 liam williams
12 Morisi
13 JD2
14 JJ
15 Hogg

by glamorganalun Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:01 pm

Hogg at 15 in front of 1/2 Penny or anyone else what a joke he managed to side step JD2 when Davies was stationary (maybe he did not want to get hurt), how many kicks did he catch out of the air, I remember 1/2 P, Roberts, Williams, Biggar taking the ball but where was the Scottish FB hence Wales made hay.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:12 pm

Planet rugby's team:

15 Stuart Hogg (Scotland): Hogg again showed all his counter-attacking ability, first with his opening try, followed by what should have been a score for Sam Hidalgo-Clyne with another great break. He racked up 144 metres in total, and showed up better in defence with one key tackle on Rhys Webb to prevent a try. For Wales, Leigh Halfpenny was almost flawless from the kicking tee, and great under the high ball in both attack and defence.

14 Tommy Bowe (Ireland): Last week Bowe showed he's not afraid of doing the unglamorous work, and it was more of the same against France. While he won't have made a big impact on the stats sheets, his efforts at the restarts were key for Ireland, particularly in the first half. Regularly outjumping Damien Chouly, he won possession back for Ireland on a number of occasions.

13 Luca Morisi (Italy): A year ago it was Michele Campagnaro who looked like a gem in the Italian midfield. With his Treviso teammate injured, Morisi stepped up with two tries to announce himself. He's been highly-rated for a while now, and while Jonny May won't want to see the second try again, Morisi showed both power and vision in crossing twice. Jonathan Davies looked better than he has in recent weeks, and aside from a harsh yellow card, played a big role for Wales.

12 Jamie Roberts (Wales): He had a miserable time of it last week, but Roberts bounced back well with a powerful display against Scotland. He'll never be a subtle playmaker, but he regularly got over the gainline and chipped in with a couple of big tackles in defence. Opposite him, Alex Dunbar again impressed, and was unfortunate not to put in Sean Lamont for a second Scottish try early in the game.

11 Jonathan Joseph (England): Quickly shifted to the wing because of Mike Brown's injury, it made little difference to Joseph, who is the standout player so far in this year's tournament. His first try left Kelly Haimona looking very foolish and he looks to be the most dangerous player with ball in hand in the competition. On current form he's the first name in the England backline, regardless of whether Manu Tuilagi is fit or not.

10 Jonathan Sexton (Ireland): Three months off but you wouldn't have guessed it as Sexton did his best Ronan O'Gara impression, moving the French around the park with his kicking game. He was a little solid in defence than his Irish predecessor however, having to cope with Mathieu Bastareaud's charges all day, and generally doing enough to stop the French battering ram. Elsewhere, Dan Biggar orchestrated things for Wales and was excellent under the high ball. The Welsh are a flawed side but they've found their fly-half.

9 Ben Youngs (England): Some smart thinking from Youngs for his try, although Jacques Brunel will be fuming at how his team switched off. That try proved to be the moment when England finally killed off the Italian challenge, before cutting loose in the final 30 minutes. Having come into the tournament with question marks over his place in the side, Youngs is starting to find his best form.

8 Billy Vunipola (England): Two strong games in a row from the Saracens. Vunipola made comfortably more metres than any other forward last weekend with 55, while weighing in with 17 tackles. Hearing him talk last week about how much being dropped last November had changed his outlook, Vunipola is backing up his words with dominant performances off the back of England's scrum. Just the one offload against the Azzurri reminds us he can give more. A mention for Sergio Parisse, who was everywhere as always.

7 Chris Robshaw (England): The England skipper continues his rich vein of form, this week topping the tackling stats with 19. His engine really is impressive and while counting 'rucks hit' might not be the most extravagant category, Robshaw's work-rate can't be discounted when evaluating his contribution. Add in more carries with the ball in hand and his stock will rise even further. A mention for Wales captain Sam Warburton,

6 Peter O'Mahony (Ireland): Timely interventions at the breakdown earn the Munster captain this spot. Never lets up and this was another classy showing, with O'Mahony making his share of carries and tackles along with winning three lineouts. He edges out Wales flanker Dan Lydiate, who made 12 tackles at Murrayfield.

5 Alun Wyn Jones (Wales): Man of the Match against Scotland, Jones made more carries and metres than any other Welsh forward at Murrayfield and was at his physically imposing best, along with winning five lineouts on Welsh ball. It took real grit for Wales to hang on at the end. Unsurprisingly, Jones was a colussus.

4 Yoann Maestri (France): Our solitary Frenchman just about sneaks in ahead of Devin Toner, but Maestri's 15 tackles and four lineout certainly warranted his inclusion. France's best player in Dublin by some way on a dire evening for Les Bleus.

3 Dan Cole (England): England's scrum was comfortably dominant against Italy, with Cole doing his part up against Andrea de Marchi. If anything England maybe should have exploited that area of real strength more. Still, it's been good to see Cole slotting back into Test rugby with ease after so long out. Uini Atonio was a monster off the bench for France at scrum time.

2 Ross Ford (Scotland): A subdued week for hookers but we've gone with Ford's efforts for Scotland, with the lineout holding firm and seven tackles from the Edinburgh man getting him into the side.

1 Joe Marler (England): Another week and another performance from Joe Marler bossing the scrums. Manipulated the threat of Martin Castrogiovanni all afternoon and made an impressive 11 tackles.

by glamorganalun Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:34 pm

The only excetion for me Is Hogg, defence and catching iffy. Has to be Kearney or 1/2 P

by R!skysports Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:34 pm

glamorganalun wrote:The only excetion for me Is Hogg, defence and catching iffy. Has to be Kearney or 1/2 P

I suppose that if you just want a full back to catch or tackle (although I am not sure Hogg missed any tackles)

If you want one to break the line and attack...then there are better options

by SecretFly Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:40 pm

Riskysports wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:The only excetion for me Is Hogg, defence and catching iffy. Has to be Kearney or 1/2 P

I suppose that if you just want a full back to catch or tackle (although I am not sure Hogg missed any tackles)

If you want one to break the line and attack...then there are better options

You also want one that is part of a system that wins. And unfortunately I prefer a full back to be more like Hogg, but the system that Kearney is tied to and that even Halfpenny is tied to is currently having more success. Less ambition, more solidity in the back and plodtastic in attack Wink

by Guest Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:48 pm

Riskysports wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:The only excetion for me Is Hogg, defence and catching iffy. Has to be Kearney or 1/2 P

I suppose that if you just want a full back to catch or tackle (although I am not sure Hogg missed any tackles)

If you want one to break the line and attack...then there are better options

I don't know if he missed any, but it appeared to me that he could have made a better fist of tackling JD2.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:40 pm

Aye, he buys JD2's dummy lock, stock and both smoking barrels.

Officially Hogg made 3 and missed 1 tackle. That excludes his rather lazy covering for the first try and his failure to prevent any form of defense for the second.

by Engine#4 Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:43 am

lostinwales wrote:Its hard to justify Haskell also. I noticed that Guscott had Lydiate on his list but it wasnt the best weekend for blind sides anywhere.

Guscott's list

Marler
Ford
Jarvis
Biagi
AWJ
Lydiate
Warburton
Parisse
Kockott
Sexton
Joseph (on the wing!)
Dunbar
Morisi
Huget
1/2p

Morisi was very good, as was Joseph. Parisse was good but wasnt as good as our biggest fatty. Lots of question marks over that list tbh

Actually just noticed 3 italians vs 2 English after losing by 30 points...

And those two Welsh tight forwards when Scotland had the edge in the scrums etc....

I only saw Ire Vs Fra in full so can't comment on most of this but I wouldn't have rated Kockott as the best French scrumhalf of the weekend 6N - Team of Round 2 1054138444

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