The 'No Arms' Clear Out

Clear out

The no arms clear out.

Is this a problem in the game and do refs need to do more to get rid of it?

Oh and this is how it should be done!

SOB rucks half of France

I saw the no arm clear out on Hogg when it happened and it's pretty shocking. How he wasn't injured I'll never know. 

They need to address this problem soon, before someone is seriously hurt. The jackling position is actually pretty safe if you get your head low enough, but only is the defender's clearout is legal and a proper 'judo' technique.  However with your neck and spine exposed, if a defender 'bounces' you like that, there's nothing that you can do to protect yourself.

SOB showing everyone how it should be done. What a great clear out. 

That's physicality within the laws of the game.

Huge problem & yes it needs to be dealt with.

Incidents like this need to become a thing of the past & quickly https://vine.co/v/OPVVH5Hd3g3

How there wasn't a citing out the back of that is beyond me. I guess that this sort of malicious play is not considered fashionable enough to be cracked down on.

Dangerous. Deserves a yellow at the very least. Perhaps more.

Seems like it's an offence that goes unpunished quite alot

Refs need to be stricter on players staying on their feet in the ruck in general, every ruck seems to have people launching themselves at it (from both sides) now.

Charging at the ruck or maul is a cardable offence. It does seem it isnt being applied harshly/heavily currently

The laws state that a player joining the ruck should bind onto a player who is already there, however this seems to never happen and the kamikaze dive seems to be not only excepted but applauded by fans as it allows clean ball.

I think it does need to be reffed more

However at the same time the whole bridging over needs to be looked at as well. Most of the time the player just makes a bridge and sets them self into a position hard to move - without making any real effort to steal the ball. Hence the horrible clear out technique

The whole breakdown is a mess

Only time I can ever remember a player getting carded for it is Botha in the Lions series, and that's arguably more to do with his reputation then a ref being strict.

Worryingly the players didn't have a problem with it when interviewed afterwards.

yappysnap wrote:Only time I can ever remember a player getting carded for it is Botha in the Lions series, and that's arguably more to do with his reputation then a ref being strict.

Worryingly the players didn't have a problem with it when interviewed afterwards.

Jake Ball was cited for the Scarlets v Munster.

Justice for Bakkies was a superb clearout in the Lions tour in 2009 on Adam Jones, he got banned for it though.

No hands clear outs should be looked at.

I think I would rather take a rake to the back rather than being melted in some of the clearouts I have seen.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Justice for Bakkies was a superb clearout in the Lions tour in 2009 on Adam Jones, he got banned for it though.

I can't see any arms involved. Just head and shoulder.

His arms were out and were on either side of Adam Jones.

Compare that to Gethin's shoulder block style challenge on Hogg at the weekend for some perspective.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:His arms were out and were on either side of Adam Jones.

You've just described an illegal ruck bind.

I completely agree it needs to be sorted, if you look at the Blitzbokke (I saw a training video of how they are training to clear the ruck) they have a very good technique to clear rucks.

But there is a major problem that is the cause of this. If you watch these rucks closely many of these players being cleaned out are actually breaking the law.

They are not on their feet supporting their own bodyweight, or lying on top of another player, which means there is little chance of getting underneath them to clear them out.

If a referee cleans that up clearing a ruck would be more often cleaned legally

Surely there no 'arm in that

Gooseberry wrote:Surely there no 'arm in that

Excuse the "pun" as they say

Pains me to say it but there was a ruck in the run up to the JJ try vs Wales where Burrell clears out Warburton with one of those dives. I hadnt noticed it first time around, but it doesnt look good. (not as bad as the Gethin/Hogg one mind)

lostinwales wrote:Pains me to say it but there was a ruck in the run up to the JJ try vs Wales where Burrell clears out Warburton with one of those dives. I hadnt noticed it first time around, but it doesnt look good. (not as bad as the Gethin/Hogg one mind)

Is it here anywhere? I can't see anything. There's a very dubious in the side by Dan Cole but not much else. Looked like good controlled phase play from England to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPi7kmY3xQ8

Chunky Norwich wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Pains me to say it but there was a ruck in the run up to the JJ try vs Wales where Burrell clears out Warburton with one of those dives. I hadnt noticed it first time around, but it doesnt look good. (not as bad as the Gethin/Hogg one mind)

Is it here anywhere? I can't see anything. There's a very dubious in the side by Dan Cole but not much else. Looked like good controlled phase play from England to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPi7kmY3xQ8

*Sigh looking at it again and yes wasnt anything wrong with that one. I could have sworn... Could argue he went off his feet at the ruck I guess

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Compare that to Gethin's shoulder block style challenge on Hogg at the weekend for some perspective.

Come on mun, lets not turn this into a thread where the Scottish make the Welsh look like being the scorn of the rugby world, we have already got one thread like that regarding another type of dubious turn of events.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN8U-6wyGOg&list=PL9mmlCY22idl-yHVp2c-qXssxr9s_DJkP#t=47m0s5

Same again. arms down by the side. Just like Bakkies. Results in suspected dislocated shoulder.

Citing?

Doubt it

We see clearout like that all games long, can't ref the play purely based on the injury. Can't really give more than a penalty as far as i'm concerned.

If you dare contest the ball, you have to be aware whats coming to you.

Chunky Norwich wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN8U-6wyGOg&list=PL9mmlCY22idl-yHVp2c-qXssxr9s_DJkP#t=47m0s5

Same again. arms down by the side. Just like Bakkies. Results in suspected dislocated shoulder.

Citing?

Doubt it

You do realise that a Scarlets player did the same thing to Clive Ross later on in the game? Do you have any comments on that?

It happens every single game. Every player clears out like this.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN8U-6wyGOg&list=PL9mmlCY22idl-yHVp2c-qXssxr9s_DJkP#t=47m0s5

Same again. arms down by the side. Just like Bakkies. Results in suspected dislocated shoulder.

Citing?

Doubt it

You do realise that a Scarlets player did the same thing to Clive Ross later on in the game? Do you have any comments on that?

It happens every single game. Every player clears out like this.

I think the point he's making is that this thread was started in the wake of the Scotland v Wales post match bun fight. Scotland fans called for Gethin Jenkins to get a red card and ban for his clear out on Hogg. I think Chunky is try to add some 'balance' and show that everyone does it, yet not everyone starts a thread about it for some reason.

I don't think that is Chunky's intention at all, but only he knows.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Dangerous. Deserves a yellow at the very least. Perhaps more.

Seems like it's an offence that goes unpunished quite alot

But take a look, in each case, at the player being cleaned out. In what way are they legal participants in a ruck? Guys on all fours, sealing off the ball, not bound to anyone.

If referees were keeping the ruck clean, there'd be no need for illegal ruck clean outs.

TheRugbyMaster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Dangerous. Deserves a yellow at the very least. Perhaps more.

Seems like it's an offence that goes unpunished quite alot

But take a look, in each case, at the player being cleaned out.  In what way are they legal participants in a ruck?  Guys on all fours, sealing off the ball, not bound to anyone.  

If referees were keeping the ruck clean, there'd be no need for illegal ruck clean outs.

Cant they just stamp on their heads instead?

TheRugbyMaster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Dangerous. Deserves a yellow at the very least. Perhaps more.

Seems like it's an offence that goes unpunished quite alot

But take a look, in each case, at the player being cleaned out.  In what way are they legal participants in a ruck?  Guys on all fours, sealing off the ball, not bound to anyone.  

If referees were keeping the ruck clean, there'd be no need for illegal ruck clean outs.

agree. in several of those videos it is a back who is on or in front of the ball with his hands on the ground. sure give a yellow to gethin for the clearout attempt, but penalty to wales for the illegal sealing off by hogg for example.

Jesus, them lad's heads must be swirling with all that repeated hitting on the one spot.

Go wide!  Don't keep trying to make hay there!