Chris Eubank JR - Best Of British?

First topic message reminder :

Boxrec now have Chris Eubank JR as the number one middleweight in the UK above Martin Murray and Billy Joe Saunders.

So, agree or disagree?

Perhaps..........But I gave him six out of seven early and my guess is Eubank didn't voluntarily hand them over....

Can easily see Saunders doing enough early and spoiling later in a rematch.......

To say Eubank starts earlier andhe wins is pretty patronising to Saunders...

Not that you said it.... Horizontal..

The point was Saunders tired after seven and lost the last five.

If Saunders can be made to work harder in the first 5 then he'll tire earlier than seven allowing Eubank to take over sooner.

For Eubank to work BJS harder, earlier, then he would have to take a pasting to begin with - but he has the chin to do it!

In my opinion Eubank's only chance of winning is to hope BJS comes into the second fight in the same condition as he did for the first then hope he can tire him sooner. If BJS doesn't tire sooner then he wins. He is the better boxer of the two. Plain and simple.

Easier said than done isn't it...3

You can only fight as well as you are allowed to........

Said it before ......Eubank didn't voluntarily hand those rounds over...

Who is to say BJS won't have more energy next time........anyone who goes to the gym will tell you some days you feel better than others...

It's all onesided...........If eubank does this..... If Eubank does that....

it's as If BJS won't have a say on what happens !!!

Guy normally doing the best work in the second half of fight normally wins the return. Time-honoured.

Look...........How many fights have you seen where a guy has dominated and then coasted....

Just complete garbage........

Not sure I saw Saunders coast either.

Otherwise he wouldn't have said it was such a gruelling fight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Easier said than done isn't it...3

You can only fight as well as you are allowed to........

Said it before ......Eubank didn't voluntarily hand those rounds over...

Who is to say BJS won't have more energy next time........anyone who goes to the gym will tell you some days you feel better than others...

It's all onesided...........If eubank does this..... If Eubank does that....

it's as If BJS won't have a say on what happens !!!

Eubank was unsure about the distance first time round.

Eubank will have no choice but to take a lot of punishment early if he wants to tire BJS sooner.

Billy Joe Saunders know's he felt knacked later in the fight. If he can make adjustments to avoid this then he wins.

Conversely, if the fighters turn up in identical condition for take two and eubank makes it a war of attrition from the get go then he wins.

BJS is the better boxer, the fight is his to lose. It's up to him to prepare better, pace better, and not let conditioning be the beating of him.

If you take a lot of punishment early on then chances are you don't want to engage as much later on.....Because no one wants to get hurt......Boxing is psychological as much as it is physical..

A lot harder than it sounds....

Lewis - Tyson...
Starling - Honey.........These guys were countered early taking risks... and lost heart...

Truss, you're arguing that Saunders coasted, but is that really any more feasible or sensible than Eubank making a conscious effort to surrender the early rounds?

I agree that the latter is ridiculous, but I think it's just as daft to claim that Saunders was making a conscious effort to wind it down and see it out late on. If it had been the last couple of rounds, ala Froch-Ward, then maybe. But Saunders was starting to struggle a little from about the seventh onwards and Eubank was coming on strong. He was having to take some considerable leather and trade more than he'd have presumably liked to, rather than just making sure he didn't get hit with anything silly and running down the clock.

Eubank also had Saunders visibly stunned two or three times and with a bit more accuracy he might have had him going. I don't think Saunders was in cruise control in the second half of the fight and if he could have been a bit more clinical and emphatic he would have been. I just think he was genuinely tiring and struggling with Eubank's size, strength and pressure as things wore on.

Going back to what others have already mentioned here, I've said a few times now that to me the fight was always likely to look like (and it did on fight night) a Super-Middleweight boiling off an extra few lb against a Light-Middleweight who isn't inclined to lose that extra bit of bulk. I actually rate Saunders' boxing ability highly, and agree that he's in a different class to Eubank from that perspective. As 3fingers and Lee have said, if he's in tip-top shape and doesn't gas, he should beat Eubank again.

It just depends if the last fight was reflective of him still having a way to go in terms of his conditioning and if it's something he can / will improve on, or if that's genuinely what his stamina is like. If it's the latter, then him losing to Eubank in a rematch, even if it's down to factors other than skill and ability, could be a possibility. If Saunders can get hold of a world title then it's a fight I'd definitely like to see, and while I'd favour Saunders again I don't think it's a forgone conclusion based on what we saw in November.

Out of curiosity,  who said eubank consciously surrendered the early rounds? He didn't, he tried to box but was comprehensively out boxed. A change in tactics coincided with Saunders tiring. This was reactive, not some master plan.

3fingers, not sure if anyone has said that per se. I was more referring to Truss pointing out that, of course, Eubank losing the early rounds was more to do with Saunders than absolutely anything else, but then saying that the gap narrowed primarily because Saunders coasted. Neither makes sense to me in this context - as I said, Saunders having to take plenty of leather, grab and spin his opponent to buy time etc for a few rounds rather than a couple isn't coasting, to me. More like struggling.

It'll still take some failings on Saunders' part for him to lose to Eubank in a return, I feel, but Eubank has shown that he's a better fighter and bigger threat than I initially thought he was, to be honest.

I think when you coast you typically you get behind your jab, maybe go on the back foot for the last couple of rounds, avoid being hit.....not get smacked in the face by mammoth uppercut's through rounds 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 

But he was getting hit?

Who was getting hit?

Saying Eubank Jr just needs to push BJS harder earlier is about as useless a piece of advice as Strongy saying all you need to beat Lomachenko is a decent check hook.

BJS boxed Jr's head off so easily in the first half of the fight it was almost embarassing. The gulf in class, techinque and ability was huge - it's just that without a kd you pretty much cannot win a round better than 10-9, so the fight scored closer than it was in reality.

Think I gave BJS the first 7 fairly comfortably, and at least 1 if not 2 of the next 5.

Jr is likley to never trouble the top guys in the division unless his footwork and balance show a marked improvement, it was all wild swings and lunges against BJS.

Pressing the fight, taking punishment and tiring BJS earlier than round seven (remember he only has to tire him one round earlier for the draw) is his only hope. Can you think of another way he can win? He can't out box him.

That said, BJS will probably be in better condition, or at least more mentally prepared for a gruelling fight, next time round. So it won't work anyway.

Like others have said it's basically athlete vs boxer. The worry with BJS is he trained excellently in the build up to the fight... Took himself off to Spain and looked in great condition. I don't think he can improve his stamina unfortunately.... its just a defiency he will have to live with.

On another note why did Eubank take so long to step up? I know he had a short amateur career but he basically went from journeymen to a triple title fight. The BJS fight showed he could hold his own at that level so I just wonder why he wasn't given a few harder fights e.g Blackwell, OSullivan first rather than jumping straight in the deep end.He may have fared better with a few of those fights in the bank beforehand. Bad management?

3fingers wrote:Murrays may not be the biggest puncher but according to some he couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag, which is slightly harsh.

I've been doing some boxrec'ing to put things in perspective.

Early in his career he fought some lads who went onto to prove they were durable... Jamie Ambler lost 59 (KO 6), Dean Walker lost 42 (KO 9), Michael Banbula lost 26 (KO 3), James Tucker lost 62 (KO 3) Dean Walker lost 42 (KO 9).

He then had three prize fighter fights, I don't think there's many stoppages in the 3 x 3 format.

Later, he fought guys like Max Bursk and Karim Achour who’ve never been stopped, and others like  Peter Mitrevski Jnr whos lost 9 but only been stopped once.

I hope this adds something to the argument regarding Murrays (lack of) punch power.

Sorry fingers, however you spin it, you're still malignaggi

The Murray stoppages I've seen (not that many granted) were just one sided accumulative affairs rather than through any power hitting.

You've made me realise I'm 'one of them'. One of them who will spin to obscure their own inadequacies,  you bastardo!

3fingers wrote:You've made me realise I'm 'one of them'. One of them who will spin to obscure their own inadequacies,  you bastardo!

As treasurer of the 'one of them ' club, can I take this opportunity to remind you your subs are due. Chairman trussman will be in touch regarding the initiation ceremony. It's recommended you purchase your own goat to practice on.