Title Decider 2: Wales v Ireland 14 March

First topic message reminder :


WALES v IRELAND
Saturday 14 March 2015
KO: 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Chris Pollock (NZR)
AR2: Federico Anselmi (UAR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

*****

The bookies are keeping with their earlier predictions of no GS winner above Ireland's chances. And same for the Triple Crown.  Though they have Ireland as favourites in Cardiff but not by much.

Given the distinct love-in that we've had over the last fortnight between Irish and English fans, are Wales now the new 'old enemy'?

Keep it clean folks.

Well a bit anyway.

Ireland team:
15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 11. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92) 9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt) 6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

Replacements: 16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 18. Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) 19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 23. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)

Wales Team: Webb, Roberts, Biggar, North, Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Jones, Falateau, Warburton, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee.
Replacements: R Hibbard R Evans A Jarvis , J Ball J Tipuric , M Phillips , R Priestland , S Williams

Cardiff might as well be a home game for the Irish anyway. Close the roof I dare you.

Wales will probably play how they did against France, I'd expect a similar team, if not then the exact same one with hopefully some alterations on the bench.

The Saint wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Well Ireland are also unbeaten against France in their last 4 games.

2 scrappy wins and 2 pathetic draws...

Well we did hammer Wales last year and put 30 points on them the year before if that helps?

GunsGerms wrote:

The Saint wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Well Ireland are also unbeaten against France in their last 4 games.

2 scrappy wins and 2 pathetic draws...

Well we did hammer Wales last year and put 30 points on them the year before if that helps?

Don't forget all of Ireland's Heineken cup wins though. I remember how we kept hearing about them in 2011 and 2012 - how all those mighty Heineken cup wins by Ireland would be the key to victory on both occasions.

RubyGuby wrote:So there we have it, Ireland playing gradually controlled and clinical rugby game upon game Whilst a one dimensional Wales look bereft unless opponents are gifting them possession and missing simple pots at goal ....blah blah blah...

Totally agree Ruby, I knew you'd see it may way!

Gatland is under orders not to close the roof by the Stadium Management due to the fact that Kearney and Sexton are likely to cause irreparable damage to the fragile interior tiling with their continuous Hoof and Unders which in the modern game is known as controlled and clinical rugby. The only problem now for Ireland is that if any one of them Hoofers in green actually launches the ball out of the stadium, We then see a glint of opportunism from the 2011 ball boy - It gets more and more intriguing.

As for the minor hamstring? No such thing really until you stretch it again whereupon anything can happen. Its a bit like a minor disaster but I'll let you lot work that one out for yourselves.  

The plot thickens but like the Murphys I'm not Irish (never assume the obvious, 'Cos that's what's coming a week on Saturday   )

RubyGuby wrote:

By the way, whilst I am more than happy to accept that Ireland have faltered and/or stuttered through the first couple of games - Couldn't the same be said of Wales, or is that pushing it a bit against these mighty men in Green who after all have amassed 1 Grand Slam in 60 years. Its just a thought

Ruby.  I keep saying to people here:  Can't have it both ways.  

Did you not say Wales played much better against France than Ireland?  You did.  You certainly heavily alluded to the fact.

I for one agree with you.  That means Ireland playing turgid stuff and won by 8 - Wales playing the fleeting fox stuff and gungho kicking and chasing??!!!!!!!!!!!  - thought that was our boring game btw?  Gatland must be practicing for us  - Wales, with all the shiny stuff, won by 8 points.

That's saying something to me that reads be careful  But away you go, don't be careful with my blessing

RubyGuby wrote:

As for the minor hamstring? No such thing really until you stretch it again whereupon anything can happen. Its a bit like a minor disaster but I'll let you lot work that one out for yourselves.  

Aren't we the team who play like robots and any player slots in, slots his card in, and plays the system perfectly under harsh commands from Lord Schmidt? And Wales are the side of zig and zag Individualised Princes of Zoom.

Yet, it seems the story is Sexton is the power source that the enemy ships must torpedo before the Irish death star explodes. Oh well, it's boxoffice and I'm looking forward to the special effects. I think Weta are doing it this year

I think you are misunderstanding me Fly - What I'm saying is that there was little difference in the Welsh and Irish performances against France with a more or less identical score line. What I'm saying is that the media and everyone else appraises the Irish performance as clinical and controlled whilst the welsh performance away from home gets put down to luck more than anything. In the trade we call this "Attribution Theory" which is generally emotionally driven and suggests that Ireland beat France because of INTERNAL factors such as better defence, control of set piece etc. whilst Wales's victory was due to EXTERNAL factors such as poor kicking, poor organisation and general failure to do anything right.

RubyGuby wrote:Gatland is under orders not to close the roof by the Stadium Management due to the fact that Kearney and Sexton are likely to cause irreparable damage to the fragile interior tiling with their continuous Hoof and Unders which in the modern game is known as controlled and clinical rugby.

I'd be more worried if the roof is open and Madigan comes on - with the level of accuracy he showed against England in the last 20 min we may have to abandon the game if we run out of match balls.

Well let me reword it because it's still important, Ruby.

France didn't play well in either game.  Not against Ireland.  Not against Wales.  Although they had their undoubted 'purple patches' in both games.  I think we'll agree on that?

I still think the colour of your earlier comments was that despite how France have been playing - Wales still handled them slicker than Ireland did.

I really think you were alluding to that.  And I'd agree with that, if that was your reading.  Wales looked sharper and faster and more alert and involved than Ireland looked.

But the results show a similar reading.

Which side has more to give from the French context?  
Had Ireland played France with the same intensity they showed against England? What would that have been like?  
After all, that was the same week that Wales eat into France.  The same week - Wales improving, by everyone's opinion.  Ireland certainly improved too past the first weeks.

So it's more a issue of looking at the Ireland that beat England and the Wales that beat France.  Those are the teams we're thinking about going into the next game.

rodders wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Gatland is under orders not to close the roof by the Stadium Management due to the fact that Kearney and Sexton are likely to cause irreparable damage to the fragile interior tiling with their continuous Hoof and Unders which in the modern game is known as controlled and clinical rugby.

I'd be more worried if the roof is open and Madigan comes on - with the level of accuracy he showed against England in the last 20 min we may have to abandon the game if we run out of match balls.

He's a ball boys dream that outside half!!!

I can see Wales winning this one.

I don't think any team in the world matches Ireland for aggression during the first 30/40 mins of a game these days. Wales will really need to fight fire with fire during the first half. If they can, I see it coming down to concentration and fitness in the last 20 - though you could probably say that of most matches!

TightHEAD wrote:I can see Wales winning this one.

Well you certainly hope so. We got that down locked and loaded, Tighthead

That's going to be fun too. Englishmen crying out for a Welsh victory. It's a rare one. Savour the moment

RubyGuby wrote:

rodders wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Gatland is under orders not to close the roof by the Stadium Management due to the fact that Kearney and Sexton are likely to cause irreparable damage to the fragile interior tiling with their continuous Hoof and Unders which in the modern game is known as controlled and clinical rugby.

I'd be more worried if the roof is open and Madigan comes on - with the level of accuracy he showed against England in the last 20 min we may have to abandon the game if we run out of match balls.

 He's a ball boys dream that outside half!!!

The roof need not fear Biggar's boot Ruby, Rory Best will do his part and charge down the kick before any damage can be done

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I can see Wales winning this one.

Well you certainly hope so.  We got that down locked and loaded, Tighthead

That's going to be fun too.  Englishmen crying out for a Welsh victory.  It's a rare one.  Savour the moment

Not that rare, it happens every year they play you guys!

Ruby slyly presumes he'll be let close the roof.......................
Slick one there, Ruby, but the IRFU are pondering if Joe's complex battle plan can cater for the wind velocities that exist in a closed in stadium.

They're working feverishly on it using 6 mainframe computers.  They're still trying to factor in what kind of beer produces most wind.

TightHEAD wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I can see Wales winning this one.

Well you certainly hope so.  We got that down locked and loaded, Tighthead

That's going to be fun too.  Englishmen crying out for a Welsh victory.  It's a rare one.  Savour the moment

Not that rare, it happens every year they play you guys!

Ah no, sometimes I'm sure you've needed to be for us.  But we understand, nothing personal of course.  We won't hold it against you

when are Ireland due to play at the MS for the RWC warm up game?

rodders wrote:

quinsforever wrote:wales were pretty good at neutralising france's rolling maul. charteris and his 8ft retractable arms caused all kinds of problems for france.

neither ireland or wales look particularly dangerous ball in hand, or lets say choose not to attempt much high risk passing. So it's going to be about who dominates the collision and navigates the grey areas of the ruck and maul better without conceding penalties.

ireland slight favourites for me, but sexton's hamstring may be the deciding factor.

Considering most of the Wales side play in France, the result at the weekend was as predictable as they come - it was practiacally a home game.

However a lot of the Welsh guys aren't used to that Pro12 pace anymore or the british weather conditions, so this will be a different kettle of fish.

Since when does 4 (Charteris, Roberts, JD and Halfpenny) count has most?

TightHEAD wrote:when are Ireland due to play at the MS for the RWC warm up game?

August time we have home and away fixtures

bedfordwelsh wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:when are Ireland due to play at the MS for the RWC warm up game?

August time we have home and away fixtures

Don't want them personally. I hope they're used as a testing ground for fringe players. There was a time Ireland made a big mistake by having no games in the lead in. This time I think there are too many lined up - and a Barbarians one.

We have 3 I think, the 2 Irish games and Italy I believe. I know in past we have had England and England have regularly played France in warm up games.

The warm-up games against England in 2011 were pretty good. Less so in 2007! But there's always the very obvious risk of injury ruining someone's world cup chances - I seem to recall it was poor old Henson's last time around (and he was playing pretty well too)!

And we lost David Wallace during a warm-up game. Not just to the WC but as a player, for good. Massive loss and what a player.

The games produce the wrong kind of adrenaline as players are feverish in trying to prove themselves to their coaches.

Am I right in remembering that Jordan Murphy suffered that leg break in one too?

SecretFly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:when are Ireland due to play at the MS for the RWC warm up game?

August time we have home and away fixtures

Don't want them personally.  I hope they're used as a testing ground for fringe players.  There was a time Ireland made a big mistake by having no games in the lead in.  This time I think there are too many lined up - and a Barbarians one.

Last time out David Wallace had his career ended by England, 2003 Geordan Murphy broke his leg and was never the same player ...and who'd forget the battle of bayonne in 2007.... shambles every bloody time.

Ireland would have a couple of RWCs in the bag if it wasn't for those pesky warm ups....

The problem is your boys just don't know how to take it easy

MarcusHalberstram wrote:Am I right in remembering that Jordan Murphy suffered that leg break in one too?

Yep. I'm just suspicious of those games. Players either endanger themselves by overstretching to impress or endanger other players. It's not a nice mood. I'd prefer perhaps two games only and then wait for the real job - where pain and suffering at least might help towards prizes

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:when are Ireland due to play at the MS for the RWC warm up game?

August time we have home and away fixtures

Don't want them personally.  I hope they're used as a testing ground for fringe players.  There was a time Ireland made a big mistake by having no games in the lead in.  This time I think there are too many lined up - and a Barbarians one.

Last time out David Wallace had his career ended by England, 2003 Geordan Murphy broke his leg and was never the same player ...and who'd forget the battle of bayonne in 2007.... shambles every bloody time.

Ireland would have a couple of RWCs in the bag if it wasn't for those pesky warm ups....

Against Bayonne Drico fractured his cheek bone.

2003 Geordan Murphy broke his leg and was never the same player .

He actually snapped his achilles.

MunsterMac wrote:

2003 Geordan Murphy broke his leg and was never the same player .

He actually snapped his achilles.

Really I thought it was a broken leg too?

Fair enough but I was a big Geordan Murphy fan and I am 99% sure he snapped his achilles.

I most definitely could be wrong.

MunsterMac wrote:Fair enough but I was a big Geordan Murphy fan and I am 99% sure he snapped his achilles.

I most definitely could be wrong.

According to Wikipedia it was a broken leg. I also remember the warm up game v Scotland when his leg snapped and the lower part was waving around in the air as he was tackled.

Ah well if Wikipedia says it...

I remember it always being refered to as a broken leg but let's not break friendships because of it.

But someone said earlier 'he was never the same since'.  And I think that runs counter to what most people thought and many battles have taken place on it over the years.  But it's something I've always really believed too.  He wasn't ever the same.  He did his thing but I think it took away the 'fearless' part of his game - certainly at International level.  He often looked cautious and self-aware and hesitant.
It's strange how that happens but had that break not happened I think his light would have shone much bigger in an Irish International context.

I'd rather we skipped the warm up games and went to spala.

I'd rather we skipped the warm up games and went to spala.

But wasn't lack of warm up games given as one of the main reasons for our appalling show at WC07??

I know many of the players have said that they went into the tournament rusty.

Ireland look warm enough to me

rodders wrote:I'd rather we skipped the warm up games and went to spala.

Wouldn't they have a lot of heavy lifting to do there - digging the Welsh lads out of their ice tombs that they've been sleeping in for the two weeks before we showed up?

MunsterMac wrote:

I'd rather we skipped the warm up games and went to spala.

But wasn't lack of warm up games given as one of the main reasons for our appalling show at WC07??

I know many of the players have said that they went into the tournament rusty.

A lack is obviously a problem nobody would question. But the topic is when is too many?

A lack is obviously a problem nobody would question. But the topic is when is too many?

Well given that you can choose to play fringe players in as many games as you want I would have thought as many as possible / reasonable.

Especially if you're looking at utility backs, back up 9s and 10s, utility 2nd / back rows, ratio of forwards to backs etc.

Plus I was responding to rodders who stated he would prefer skip the warm ups.

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:I'd rather we skipped the warm up games and went to spala.

Wouldn't they have a lot of heavy lifting to do there - digging the Welsh lads out of their ice tombs that they've been sleeping in for the two weeks before we showed up?

Cryo chambers are sooooooo 2013. We've moved on to more modern things now. We'll be putting the players in stasis fields after the 6N and will wake them up for the World Cup opening ceremony.

MunsterMac wrote:

A lack is obviously a problem nobody would question. But the topic is when is too many?

Well given that you can choose to play fringe players in as many games as you want I would have thought as many as possible / reasonable.

Especially if you're looking at utility backs, back up 9s and 10s, utility 2nd / back rows, ratio of forwards to backs etc.

Plus I was responding to rodders who stated he would prefer skip the warm ups.

It wasn't a challenge. Just a comment. Perhaps came across so. Not intended

If that's the objective, I'll be fine.  If I see too many predicted first teamers I'll be nervous and not happy.  I want the competitive stuff to start at the WC not before it.  Nobody needs to prove their daddy is bigger than the next guy's over the summer - but the mood swings that way because these are competitive animals.

There are also guys like Paddy Jackson, Donnacha Ryan, Dan Tuohy, Chris Henry, Andrew Trimble and even the recently fit Luke Fitzgerald and Keith Earls that simply haven't got a look in over this season due to injury and unavailability.

The World Cup warm-up games will be extremely important for bringing players who have been injured back into the frame and assessing them as potential World Cup squad members- as well as allowing them to get used to the Ireland systems again.

Craig Gilroy scored a great try V Scarlet's at the weekend, great feet, very elusive.

RubyGuby wrote:Craig Gilroy scored a great try V Scarlet's at the weekend, greet feet, very elusive.

He did, and it's a mark of the strength in depth we have I don't think he can get to the World Cup. He's another guy who might get a chance to out his hand up in August though.

Gilroy, Earls and Fitzgerald in great form and Trimble to come back... thats what you want...plus Dave K and McFadden...even D'arcy floating around.

To be fair the WC fixtures have been very kind to Ireland in that we have Canada up first then Romania, then Italy and finally France.

Joe could decide to pick the 1st team against England, rest them for Canada, ease then back against Romania and pick full strength teams against Italy and France.

I can't see Sexton starting before Italy given he has proved he can get up to speed in no time.