Super Saturday, Game 2: Scotland v Ireland

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SCOTLAND v IRELAND
Saturday 21 March 2015
KO: 14:30
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
AR1: Pascal Gauzere (FFR)
AR2: Federico Anselmi (UAR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

***********************

A. Teams

SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby)
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors)
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors)
09 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester)

01 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)
02 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby)
03 Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors)
04 Jim Hamilton (Saracens)
05 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
06 Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors)
07 Blair Cowan (London Irish)
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby)
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish)
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors)
20 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors)
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby)
22 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby)
23 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13 Jared Payne (Ulster)
12 Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11 Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)
10 Johnny Sexton (Racing Metro)
09 Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)

01 Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
02 Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
03 Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
04 Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
05 Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) captain
06 Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
07 Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
08 Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

16 Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
18 Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
19 Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
20 Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
22 Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
23 Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)

B. Head to Head

119 Played 119

58 Wins 56

56 Losses 58

5 Draws 5

187 Tries 200

96 Conversions 102

128 Penalties 104

32 Drop Goals 15

1,234 Points 1,301

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/2015/0318/687785-simon-easterby-ireland-must-avoid-errors-of-2007/

Simon Easterby decides to give a warning from the grave of 2007 about being too ambitious in a game that you don't really know how much you need to score to win a Championship.

For me, the mind boggles at the logic of trying to be right on all counts in that particular mathematical problem.  But I've heard it quite often about that fateful day.  We got greedy.  We didn't leave 'well enough' alone.

Of course we didn't.  We hadn't a clue how much we'd need, so the objective was to play hard to the very end whistle and then live by the consequences of either doing enough or not enough - something that would be decided later in the day and we wouldn't have a say in it.
Given that France put 46 on Scotland later to clinch the title, I think it was reasonable of Irish players to suspect they'd need as big a score as humanly possible against Italy.  If we fell down attempting that then fine - we had the right attitude.

Too much 'caution' talk in Ireland right now, and 'caution' play.  Play to Win, like Gats does.  Play with fire in the belly and get the players up and driven to make a bloody good effort to make their chance count.  Don't keep telling them to be 'careful' - don't keep limiting their instinctive greed.  Greed is good.  Play to Win.  Be up for the Challenge.  Score as many as we can (IF we can) and if Scotland beat us as we attempt it, then so be it.  But at least it's not a Middle of the Road attitude of 'a nice cautious win will do'.  IF we win and we leave England a reachable target - they'll damn well try to reach it.

I'm going for a Scotland win by 3 points

tigertattie wrote:I'm going for a Scotland win by 3 points

Ring the Irish management quickly and tell them so. I think they're struggling for 'motivation' at the moment.

So if Italy, Scotland and France win then France could be champions? Merde allors.

Easterby sounds like a man who's haunted by his poor decision making as Captain in those last 10 minutes. Can't let that affect the present though.

The game in 2007 was thrilling to watch, and I wouldn't hold any of it against that team. But if Ireland do allow the game to break up in the same way I don't think we will win the title. We conceded 21 points that day against an Italian side who were really no great shakes in attack. Scotland are much more threatening. The all or nothing approach isn't the only way and in fact, given this Scotland side are good on the counter-attack and good in broken play, might be self-destructive.

A result and performance similar to last years home game against would possibly suffice. 28-6 we won but we only really started attacking in the last quarter. I suppose a swashbuckling but headless attacking display will be more exciting but when chasing a points difference, defence is just as important as attack. 21-0 is the same as 41-20.

We need to keep Scotland in single figures and be clinical when we get into their 22. Make sure every time they get into our 22 they leave empty handed and every time we get into theirs its 3 points or more every time. Caution isn't quite the right word. More like... composed. I'm sure we will still take risks with looking at kicking to the corner and using the catch and drive, just as we did against Wales, and we might try some elaborate cross-field kicks and chips in attack that might not come off. But it will be as part of a measured game plan.

Sad for the neutral that, because Ireland vs Italy in 2007 was as entertaining a game as you would ever see. Ireland ran backs moves I've never seen before or since in test rugby. They emptied the box of tricks.

jimbopip wrote:So if Italy, Scotland and France win then France could be champions? Merde allors.

Only if they beat England by a margin of 18 points, but it is a 'mathematical' possibility

Apparently ref Garces has pulled a hamstring and Wayne Barnes will now be officiating this match!

tigertattie wrote:Apparently ref Garces has pulled a hamstring and Wayne Barnes will now be officiating this match!

Don't toy with my emotions like that...

Really?

I actually think Barnes is actually not too bad - the last game I saw him ref (can't recall but in past 2 months) I agreed with pretty much every decision.

Nematode wrote:
I actually think Barnes is actually not too bad

Scotland-Argentina. 2011 World Cup.

Enough said.

I was there.

I'm pretty sure he's pulling our plonker, but if he's not surely the Six Nations will not let us have the same referee for 3 out of 5 games in the Championship. That would be unfair. Even a very good referees interpretations of the laws will always give the advantage to one style of play in each facet and the disadvantage to another. Thats why referees are meant to rotate.

Certainly the likes of Rory Best and Peter O'Mahony will be fed up of the sight of Wayne Barnes.

tigertattie wrote:Apparently ref Garces has pulled a hamstring and Wayne Barnes will now be officiating this match!

That'll be a pleasant change. He didn't 'officiate' his last one.

Gonna go out on a limb for my first post here but if what tigertattie is saying is true, I'd much rather Barnes than Garces (despite Wellington 2011). Notch, Scotland have had George Clancy either whistling or flagging for 3 of their games this tournament.

kilo-doug wrote:Gonna go out on a limb for my first post here but if what tigertattie is saying is true, I'd much rather Barnes than Garces (despite Wellington 2011). Notch, Scotland have had George Clancy either whistling or flagging for 3 of their games this tournament.

But not whistling in three. By the way, welcome!

Just to clarify - I'm fairly certain Mr tattie is on the wind-up!

Welcome to the forum Kilo-Doug!

Are you a keen cycler or just really, really small?

And thank the rugby gods for that Notch.
Define small please?

kilo-doug wrote:
Define small please?

Well, 1kg!

Just intrigued by your Username!

What I don't understand is why Nigel Owens has only reffed one game this year- he's head and shoulders above the other refs in this Hemisphere, can we not get him and not the temperamental Garces or Rugby Leagues Wayne Barnes?

Kilo usually means 1000x.

Notch wrote:What I don't understand is why Nigel Owens has only reffed one game this year- he's head and shoulders above the other refs in this Hemisphere, can we not get him and not the temperamental Garces or Rugby Leagues Wayne Barnes?

Now there's just the ticket to lay on the boys saying we're just moaning coz we lost - which is absolutely true by the way!! It's always the best time to get in your moans - when you lose. Best time for them, I say.

But that's true. Very true. I'd have accepted Nigel Owens and his rulings in that game against Wales like a breeze. I wouldn't have had a care in the world that he was Welsh and on Welsh soil, reffing a Welsh game.

Best time for them, but I'm not really moaning. It's not that I think Barnes is a bad ref, he's actually an outstanding referee so long as you accept that the game should;

a) be refereed in such a way that the defending team should be penalised for small, unintentional errors when trying to contest the ball at the breakdown and the attacking team should not and
b) Scrums should primarily be used for restarting the game only. The dominant team should not be given a penalty if the ball is playable, even if the opposition front row is being tied in knots. In scrums were there are multiple offences, penalties are just as likely to go against the dominant scrum

For me,

a) means that teams have no incentive to contest the breakdown, so they spread across the pitch. The more of an open contest there is the more both sides have to commit to rucks leaving space in the outside. Okay, if it's less of a contest the attacking team gets quicker ball but that doesn't matter much if it means the defenders are just fanned out across the pitch every phase. Also, turnover ball is the best ball to attack of. We shouldn't be trying to make turning over ball harder than it already is
b) Scrummaging technique is one of the hardest skills in rugby and I like props to get their reward, I like it to be a contest which can really generate scoring opportunities and get you territory. I hate it when it's a lottery- again, the less its a contest the more we'll see props just in for ball-carrying.

So I'm not a fan of Barnes, and I don't like getting him at this level. But it's not so much that he's a bad ref. He just encourages a different style of rugby to the one I most enjoy watching.

Barnes is also going to be wearing blue shorts and blue socks!

Just saying!

Barnes' version of rugby should help Scotland in theory, because we don't generally contest the breakdown so it'll be tricky for him to penalise us. The only concern for me is the ease with which he awared that penalty try to Ireland, because we don't contest the lineout or rolling maul either.

People may read the paragraph above and ask what exactly it is that Scotland do contest. It's a very good question. We are relatively competitive in the scrum, but Barnes tends to penalise teams for pushing too hard, so we should probably not contest the scrums either.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Barnes' version of rugby should help Scotland in theory, because we don't generally contest the breakdown so it'll be tricky for him to penalise us. The only concern for me is the ease with which he awared that penalty try to Ireland, because we don't contest the lineout or rolling maul either.

People may read the paragraph above and ask what exactly it is that Scotland do contest. It's a very good question. We are relatively competitive in the scrum, but Barnes tends to penalise teams for pushing too hard, so we should probably not contest the scrums either.

Surely he's not really in is he? Tattie is having a wee joke...

...isn't he? Please?

See what you've done now tattie!

funnyExiledScot wrote:Barnes' version of rugby should help Scotland in theory, because we don't generally contest the breakdown so it'll be tricky for him to penalise us. The only concern for me is the ease with which he awared that penalty try to Ireland, because we don't contest the lineout or rolling maul either.

People may read the paragraph above and ask what exactly it is that Scotland do contest. It's a very good question. We are relatively competitive in the scrum, but Barnes tends to penalise teams for pushing too hard, so we should probably not contest the scrums either.

kilo-doug wrote:Gonna go out on a limb for my first post here but if what tigertattie is saying is true, I'd much rather Barnes than Garces (despite Wellington 2011). Notch, Scotland have had George Clancy either whistling or flagging for 3 of their games this tournament.

Don't forget time keeping

According to the Irish Times, Ireland will line up as;

IRELAND (possible): Kearney; Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Fitzgerald; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross, Toner, O’Connell (capt), O’Mahony, O’Brien, Heaslip.

Replacements: McGrath, Cronin, Moore, Henderson, Murphy, Reddan, Madigan, Jones.

I hope it's Zebo on the bench, not Jones. Toner to retain his spot for his lineout ability.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/cian-healy-and-luke-fitzgerald-in-line-to-start-for-ireland-against-scotland-1.2144379

Don't think zebo could have any arguments about being dropped - he's not had much of an impact in any of the games so far.

Scotsman suggesting Grant and Ashe will replace Dickinson and Denton.

Incredibly harsh on Denton if true!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Scotsman suggesting Grant and Ashe will replace Dickinson and Denton.

Incredibly harsh on Denton if true!

I read that and thought he was going to replace Harley, which would be less of a surprise.

As much as Harley hasn't been hitting top form, I think that would be a mistake given Ireland's strength at ruck time.

With both Ashe and Denton in there we'd be lacking someone who is happy spending 80 minutes doing as much as a he can to make a mess of the rucks - we certainly need that against Ireland.

Notch wrote:According to the Irish Times, Ireland will line up as;

IRELAND (possible): Kearney; Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Fitzgerald; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross, Toner, O’Connell (capt), O’Mahony, O’Brien, Heaslip.

Replacements: McGrath, Cronin, Moore, Henderson, Murphy, Reddan, Madigan, Jones.

I hope it's Zebo on the bench, not Jones. Toner to retain his spot for his lineout ability.

Not happy with this at all if true. Not the dropping of Zebo (which I think would be a little harsh as the only reason he may be seen as not having performed is because of lack of ball) but the continued selection of Kearney (not in form) SOB (not in form or still injured) and Heaslip (still injured?).

Surely Kearney should be dropped, to be replaced by Payne or Zebo at 15.

TOD and Murphy to start over SOB and Heaslip (bench places for SOB and Heaslip)

Jones off the Bench and Earls either starting at 13 (If Payne went to 15) or at the very least on the bench as cover?

You repeat yourself a lot NJ...

RDW_Scotland wrote:See what you've done now tattie!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Scotsman suggesting Grant and Ashe will replace Dickinson and Denton.

Incredibly harsh on Denton if true!

It's a blow if Dickinson is ruled out as he's been extremely solid at LH, whilst Grant has been nowhere near his best this season. However, on the flip side, Sutherland will come onto the bench so hopefully we'll see what he can do off the bench and he can stake his claim for the 3rd LH spot in the WC squad.

I think that I have not repeated myself a lot to be honest, I feel strongly about a few issues and say them but I also have a very varying opinions on other subjects.

Shame that you cant see that and only focus on certain posts I make, really doing a good job as a moderator by encouraging people to post on this forum

Sometimes you are forced to repeat yourself if the same issues that you personally find difficult to comprehend keep cropping up.

So I'd support Nachos and his repetitiveness.  Kearney as usual has been talking a good game this week.  But he must know his personal game needs a big injection of 'better form' if the talk is going to get backed up.

Heaslip wasn't ready for the Welsh game.  That's a fact.  Will be now be ready for this one? I hope so.

O'Brien isn't cooking at full steam - that seems also self evident to me.  And some of the evidence is that he often tries to push the 'full steam' button too much.  He needs to relax and play the basics hard and work his form up slowly but deliberately.

Healy is another player who is obviously cobwebby.

Bowe needs to catch more and 'slap back' less.

But I can understand Schmidt reasoning about giving some of those players opportunities to get back up to full International conditions quickly.  Kearney though has had his time and needs to motor on now with it and offer a few more challenges to the opposition.

We'll see how it pans out, but it does look from here that Schmidt is consolidating and being at his pragmatic best.  He'll want  to win the game but I don't think he'll risk a loss to gain the Championship.  Or that may be the smokescreen he's throwing out there.  Like a lot of what's going on in Schmidt's head these days, I don't bloody know!

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Scotsman suggesting Grant and Ashe will replace Dickinson and Denton.

Incredibly harsh on Denton if true!

I read that and thought he was going to replace Harley, which would be less of a surprise.

Agreed. Of the back row Harley should be the most vulnerable. He's been very disappointing throughout this tournament. I thought Denton played well against England, and he's a far better ball carrier than Adam Ashe.

Grant over Dickinson isn't a biggie. Dickinson was rightly first choice starting the tournament but he had been pretty average. No disgrace, just not pulling down trees. Assuming Scotland will only take two loosies to the World Cup, it'll be tough choosing two from Grant, Reid and Dickinson.

To be fair Fly, I am getting a little tired of this forum. I like our discussions but its becoming a joke, maybe I should just be a yes man, say everything is going fine and worship Notch if I am going to enjoy my time on here

Not at all, Nachos.

To survive in this place - (and I'll be gone until much closer to the WC after this weekend - thankfully!!!) but to survive, you only have to obey one law: Never Let the Bastardes Get You Down.

NOT, I might add a reference to Notch!!!! - but a general reflection on not letting the site get to you or the wildlife. Just keep buzzing and popping in your genuine opinions as needs be, is how I keep going. I don't care about reactions. It's all Internet Ether Fluff we live in.

tigertattie wrote:I'm going for a Scotland win by 3 points

I reckon you might not be far wrong actually. Ireland don't have the automatic right to a victory here. At Murrayfield with a last gasp effort to retain some dignity, I would expect Scotland to run Ireland at least very close.

Given the amount of kicking likely to happen, I'm just worried the game will be ruined early on by another controversial yellow or red.

Scotland really aren't very good under the high ball!

Jimpy wrote:

tigertattie wrote:I'm going for a Scotland win by 3 points

I reckon you might not be far wrong actually. Ireland don't have the automatic right to a victory here. At Murrayfield with a last gasp effort to retain some dignity, I would expect Scotland to run Ireland at least very close.

I do as well, Scotland will have that hunger of not finishing with the wooden spoon, the hunger to show their fans something and an extra belief by playing at home. Murrayfield has not been a great hunting ground for Ireland of late. Still think that Ireland will have too much but it will be no runaway victory and I expect Scotland to come out hard in the first half.

Jimpy wrote:

tigertattie wrote:I'm going for a Scotland win by 3 points

I reckon you might not be far wrong actually. Ireland don't have the automatic right to a victory here. At Murrayfield with a last gasp effort to retain some dignity, I would expect Scotland to run Ireland at least very close.

Of course we don't. I'd hope that the same lack of Right would pertain to the game in Italy and London

RDW_Scotland wrote:Given the amount of kicking likely to happen, I'm just worried the game will be ruined early on by another controversial yellow or red.

Scotland really aren't very good under the high ball!

Neither are we.

Anyone worshipping me will be banned for taking leave of their senses

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:To be fair Fly, I am getting a little tired of this forum. I like our discussions but its becoming a joke, maybe I should just be a yes man, say everything is going fine and worship Notch if I am going to enjoy my time on here

Not only the team are now being coached as such the posters on here follow the same regime....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXa9tXcMhXQ

Clearly Zebo has not been assimilated enough (or maybe too much - damned if you do and damned if you dont)

It sounds strange, but I generally see Ireland as the team we are most likely to beat at Murrayfield (other than Italy ).  We've certainly had more wins against them in recent memory than against England, France or Wales.

In fact, I think since 2008 the only team we have beaten other than Italy has been Ireland (twice), including that barnstorming victory at Croke Park.

The last 10 fixtures (including a world cup warm up victory) read Ireland 6 Scotland 4.

I still think we're going to lose, but we do have a better record against Ireland - even if it is pretty feeble in the 6N.

Nachos, I used to be like you in my reactions to team announcements but I changed once I realised no matter how many times I said my preferred team, it was a pointless exercise. You're better off talking about what you think the players who are actually selected need to do to improve because the selections you want will never be anything more than hypothetical.

That is just my opinion, no offence is intended. Neither should you consider this an attempt to tell you what you should or should not say. But I do find posts that say "Well, they should play this player and this player and this player" very dull to read now (ironically, since I used to post so many of them) because there's not much you can say about them other than "yeah, that would be nice" or "no, that wouldn't work". I do happen to agree with you that O'Donnell has been better than O'Brien and Murphy is also unlucky to miss out, and that the likes of Kearney are not in great form. But we all know thats what you think by now. I apologise if that seems harsh.