Could this be the most competitive Rugby World cup yet...?

After a scintillating Six Nations and good performances in the autumn last year it is not just NZ SA and the ozzies who'll be in contention.

Ireland Wales and England have all shown they can play measured rugby at a high level as well as showing the ability to throw the ball around and score good tries.

Nick Mallett seems to think so.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/32027915

Hope so.  We need a bit more drama than just wondering which of the top 10 teams will not make it to the quarterfinal round.  The Aussie, Wales, England pool should be a real good one. The last Olympics showed how well Britain can run a major competition. So I would expect a very well run tournament.

It was a great old day altogether but now I think it's being over-propagandised.

It was a day of necessity against some not-so-great opposition (sorry Italy, Scotland and even France).  
France did show up to push England to the limit each and everytime England felt they were doing enough, but that defensive output from both sides???  It wouldn't happen at a World Cup against top sides when needing wins rather than scores.

So I think the day is being over-marketed now as some kind of norm NH teams "can get to" - it's not.  It's the kinda game some SH sides might lure you into and make you pay the price of your pretensions.

Lovely to know it's there - but winning something will involve some of Super Saturday stuff and a lot of more calculating, wrestling, defensive stuff.

BTW...just to be clear - France are right in the mix. Playing badly now - not a bad team of players. France will be up for the WC in their own unique way as usual and Ireland will have a game on their hands with them.

Hansen telling us he's worried by our 'boring rugby' bad for the game apparently, and now Mallet drooling after the 6N's attacking display at the weekend. I don't buy it. I don't trust Hansen, and I'm sure the SH sides would just love us to open up against them the way England did v France. It can't be all about defense, but the best teams are built on the best defense.

Not really. Its still pretty unlikely anyone will trouble New Zealand. The competition will come in the battle for places 2-4.
You wont see many games where either both teams are going for it or one doesnt bother to turn up at all like Super Saturday, game play will be much more pragmatic than it was on a one of weekend and more like it has been in all other rounds and in other international series.

maestegmafia wrote:After a scintillating Six Nations...

It really wasn't. In the main, it was pretty low-quality stuff.

Gooseberry wrote:Not really. Its still pretty unlikely anyone will trouble New Zealand. The competition will come in the battle for places 2-4.
You wont see many games where either both teams are going for it or one doesnt bother to turn up at all like Super Saturday, game play will be much more pragmatic than it was on a one of weekend and more like it has been in all other rounds and in other international series.

New Zealand aren't infallible, beat by South Africa this year, and it's a RWC away from home, where they have a bit of a propensity to choke. Even at the last World Cup they barely scraped over France in the final. I wouldn't fancy our chances agin 'em but certainly not a foregone conclusion.

It seems with the adrenalin of the last day, many have overlooked what was pretty dreary stuff early on. I still can't see past one of NZ, Aus and SA plus either England or Ireland in the final.

Well unless we buck up our ideas and get back to (start) winning ways then the games against Japan & the US could be more competitive then people would've imagined...

I will say that given how Wales improved throughout the championship, and given teams will have three months (?) together beforehand, I may have to switch my prediction which initially saw them being knocked out in the first round. I'm still backing England at home to top the group, but now fancy Wales to pip Australia to second (obviously still a long way to go).

There is not so much as a chink of light between England, Wales and Ireland right now and on their day either one of them would be a match for any other team in the RWC, even the All Blacks who I idolise (not as much as I idolise my beloved Ireland).
The thing is, the super saturday showed what brand of rugby can be produced when it's a winner takes all situation so if the current top 3 NH sides get out of their groups and if France can pull their finger out it could be down to the wire on all fronts. Personally I will be hoping they keep that finger firmly in wherever it is mind you

Pete330v2 wrote:There is not so much as a chink of light between England, Wales and Ireland right now and on their day either one of them would be a match for any other team in the RWC, even the All Blacks who I idolise (not as much as I idolise my beloved Ireland).
The thing is, the super saturday showed what brand of rugby can be produced when it's a winner takes all situation so if the current top 3 NH sides get out of their groups and if France can pull their finger out it could be down to the wire on all fronts. Personally I will be hoping they keep that finger firmly in wherever it is mind you

If it had been purely a winner-takes-all situation, there's no way anyone would have been throwing the ball around.

The 6 nations has highlighted what we already know - Pool A is far stronger than any other pool - ludricously so.

Pool A will be the showcase - it holds the hosts and two of their biggest rivals -the problem is none of the other pools have anywhere near the same interest.

The other pools could have done with an England,Wales,France or Ireland being partnered with SA or NZ to ignite interest.

Fiji in particular will feel aggrieved about the predicament they are in. They would probably have fancied their chances against Italy or Scotland for example.

As for the rest of the Pools much will depend on the performances of the likes of Samoa,Tonga, Georgia, Italy and France. Though saying that I don't see much to really shout about.

Until NZ get beaten more often, no. And the minnows don't stand a chance.

The Saint wrote:Until NZ get beaten more often, no. And the minnows don't stand a chance.

Agree, Wales are going to find it really tough.

Jimpy wrote:

The Saint wrote:Until NZ get beaten more often, no. And the minnows don't stand a chance.

Agree, Wales are going to find it really tough.

0.5/10 for effort there.

The Saint wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

The Saint wrote:Until NZ get beaten more often, no. And the minnows don't stand a chance.

Agree, Wales are going to find it really tough.

0.5/10 for effort there.

Surely it deserves higher for eliciting that response?

beshocked wrote:The 6 nations has highlighted what we already know - Pool A is far stronger than any other pool - ludricously so.

Pool A will be the showcase - it holds the hosts and two of their biggest rivals -the problem is none of the other pools have anywhere near the same interest.

The other pools could have done with an England,Wales,France or Ireland being partnered with SA or NZ to ignite interest.

Fiji in particular will feel aggrieved about the predicament they are in. They would probably  have fancied their chances against Italy or Scotland for example.

As for the rest of the Pools much will depend on the performances of the likes of Samoa,Tonga, Georgia, Italy and France. Though saying that I don't see much to really shout about.

Agreed - they really need to look at the crazy system of setting the pools up so far in advance - having England, Wales and Australia in the same pool is madness.

LondonTiger wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

The Saint wrote:Until NZ get beaten more often, no. And the minnows don't stand a chance.

Agree, Wales are going to find it really tough.

0.5/10 for effort there.

Surely it deserves higher for eliciting that response?

What can I say, I like to inform people. But to answer your question, no. Too predictable and just not very good.

When I said minnows, I was referring to teams outside the top 8, those teams are really going to struggle with getting points on the board.

More seriously - not really all that sure how competitive it will be.

In terms of business end of the tournament NZ are well clear.

There is a group who hope to make semis including Australia, England, Ireland and Wales.

SA inbetween but seem to be striving to move down to that hopeful group.

France and Argentina will believe that "on their day"

The Saint wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

The Saint wrote:Until NZ get beaten more often, no. And the minnows don't stand a chance.

Agree, Wales are going to find it really tough.

0.5/10 for effort there.

Not worth the effort. Like eating a stick of celery.

LondonTiger wrote:More seriously - not really all that sure how competitive it will be.

In terms of business end of the tournament NZ are well clear.

There is a group who hope to make semis including Australia, England, Ireland and Wales.

SA inbetween but seem to be striving to move down to that hopeful group.

France and Argentina will believe that "on their day"

I think competitive in that the best NH teams have shown that with the right mindset, they have the skills to beat SH teams (and regularly). The gap appears to have closed, but was it ever really there, or were we all just playing it safe?

beshocked wrote:The 6 nations has highlighted what we already know - Pool A is far stronger than any other pool - ludricously so.

Pool A will be the showcase - it holds the hosts and two of their biggest rivals -the problem is none of the other pools have anywhere near the same interest.

The other pools could have done with an England,Wales,France or Ireland being partnered with SA or NZ to ignite interest.

Fiji in particular will feel aggrieved about the predicament they are in. They would probably  have fancied their chances against Italy or Scotland for example.

As for the rest of the Pools much will depend on the performances of the likes of Samoa,Tonga, Georgia, Italy and France. Though saying that I don't see much to really shout about.

Away from the top ten of the IRB rankings there might be some interesting conundrums?

Can Georgia beat tonga or argentina?

Some of these 'minnows' are going to have an impact.  They're not going to lie down all of them.  One of them might catch a favourite in a moment of complacency and - bang.

But I keep thinking Samoa for some reason might be the side that perhaps upsets the projected outcomes.

Marshes wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Not really. Its still pretty unlikely anyone will trouble New Zealand. The competition will come in the battle for places 2-4.
You wont see many games where either both teams are going for it or one doesnt bother to turn up at all like Super Saturday, game play will be much more pragmatic than it was on a one of weekend and more like it has been in all other rounds and in other international series.

New Zealand aren't infallible, beat by South Africa this year, and it's a RWC away from home, where they have a bit of a propensity to choke. Even at the last World Cup they barely scraped over France in the final. I wouldn't fancy our chances agin 'em but certainly not a foregone conclusion.

Isn't it interesting how our win is always a scrape over the line when England's 03 was a magnificent win from a great side...who also flopped over the line with a drop goal in extra time to do so...

Taylorman wrote:

Marshes wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Not really. Its still pretty unlikely anyone will trouble New Zealand. The competition will come in the battle for places 2-4.
You wont see many games where either both teams are going for it or one doesnt bother to turn up at all like Super Saturday, game play will be much more pragmatic than it was on a one of weekend and more like it has been in all other rounds and in other international series.

New Zealand aren't infallible, beat by South Africa this year, and it's a RWC away from home, where they have a bit of a propensity to choke. Even at the last World Cup they barely scraped over France in the final. I wouldn't fancy our chances agin 'em but certainly not a foregone conclusion.

Isn't it interesting how our win is always a scrape over the line when England's 03 was a magnificent win from a great side...who also flopped over the line with a drop goal in extra time to do so...

The difference is England although the no1 team at the time, was not expected to win. Plus England won away from home. unlike NZ who was playing at home. And NZ have been number 1 team for a lot longer than England was.

Remember the SH teams will be up for it come RWC. Historically the have the best win rates of everyone.

SA and NZ has win rates of 86% and Australia 80% so it shows regardless of form prior a RWC they are the most consistent.

The only NH team that has beaten NZ in a world cup is France, and it is highly unlikely they will pull themselves together.

The only NH team that has beaten SA is England and they haven't beaten SA in nigh on a decade.

These two teams are on the same side of the draw and will meet each other in one of thr semi finals, so whoever comes out on the other side of the draw will face SA or NZ.

The other side of the draw is completely open as Australia have lost to Wales, England, France and Ireland before.

Attacking prowess in the Six nations or the Rugby championship for that matter is irrelevant when it comes to a RWC. It will be close fought contests with teams taking much fewer risks when it matters.

Seeing Wales, Ireland and England taking it to the opposition in the final round of Six nation matches because points diffference will decide the winner is completely different than having to win a match in the RWC.

I do suspect the referees will ultimately make the biggest impact on how this RWC will play out.

SecretFly wrote:Some of these 'minnows' are going to have an impact.  They're not going to lie down all of them.  One of them might catch a favourite in a moment of complacency and - bang.

But I keep thinking Samoa for some reason might be the side that perhaps upsets the projected outcomes.

Samoa are a very capable team. As are Japan.

I think there we'll be good quality exciting games throughout the pools. Though I don't think that these sides will beat six nations or rugby championship teams, they may not roll over quite so easily.

As we saw last weekend points difference can make an exciting match for all.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Marshes wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Not really. Its still pretty unlikely anyone will trouble New Zealand. The competition will come in the battle for places 2-4.
You wont see many games where either both teams are going for it or one doesnt bother to turn up at all like Super Saturday, game play will be much more pragmatic than it was on a one of weekend and more like it has been in all other rounds and in other international series.

New Zealand aren't infallible, beat by South Africa this year, and it's a RWC away from home, where they have a bit of a propensity to choke. Even at the last World Cup they barely scraped over France in the final. I wouldn't fancy our chances agin 'em but certainly not a foregone conclusion.

Isn't it interesting how our win is always a scrape over the line when England's 03 was a magnificent win from a great side...who also flopped over the line with a drop goal in extra time to do so...

The difference is England although the no1 team at the time, was not expected to win. Plus England won away from home. unlike NZ who was playing at home. And NZ have been number 1 team for a lot longer than England was.

You can paint it how you wish maj. Facts remain the same. Both scraped over the line, England needing more time. And England are clearly better away in these things than at home, fluffing another two there. It's just perspective Maj.

It will be a competitive world cup but Wales or New Zealand are going to win it I think

Steffan wrote:It will be a competitive world cup but Wales or New Zealand are going to win it I think

You cannot be serious. Wales or NZ will win it. When was the last time you had a brain scan? Wales? come on.----NZ now you could be right about that? But then again. YOU could be wrong also.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Steffan wrote:It will be a competitive world cup but Wales or New Zealand are going to win it I think

You cannot be serious. Wales or NZ will win it. When was the last time you had a brain scan? Wales? come on.----NZ now you could be right about that? But then again. YOU could be wrong also.

Surely acting this dumb all the time is just.... an act?

New Zealand should be favorites but if Wales hit form they will be in with a good chance. South Africa and Australia are in with a good shout. Ireland also have a chance if they hit form but currently I would say that Wales or New Zealand are the two teams the most capable in my opinion

we have a comedian.

Steffan wrote:New Zealand should be favorites but if Wales hit form they will be in with a good chance. South Africa and Australia are in with a good shout. Ireland also have a chance if they hit form but currently I would say that Wales or New Zealand are the two teams the most capable in my opinion

Never thought I'd see the day that I 100% agree with a Ponty supporter.

The Saint wrote:

Steffan wrote:New Zealand should be favorites but if Wales hit form they will be in with a good chance. South Africa and Australia are in with a good shout. Ireland also have a chance if they hit form but currently I would say that Wales or New Zealand are the two teams the most capable in my opinion

Never thought I'd see the day that I 100% agree with a Ponty supporter.

Same goes here for a Newport supporter

But yes it is fair to say that all the above mentioned teams are capable of winning it but in my opinion the chances are it will be Wales or New Zealand that win it

With Wales likely winning the cup after they dispatch NZ along the way.

Yeah, I am sorry, but I just don't see Wales winning the World Cup.

You require a number of ingredients to do that, luck, form, decisions, bounce of the ball, consistency and smarts.

I just don't see Wales possessing the smarts or consistency to win a world cup.

Biltong you obvs don't watch rugby. We just put 61 points on the mighty Italians, it's Wales' to lose.

Reckon Samoa will do Scotland tbh. That means a RU 1/4 v Wales/Aus or Eng. The incentive to win Pool A just gets bigger and bigger.

Biltong wrote:Yeah, I am sorry, but I just don't see Wales winning the World Cup.

Nor do I. We've never even got to a final.

Like the Proteas.

Biltong wrote:Yeah, I am sorry, but I just don't see Wales winning the World Cup.

You require a number of ingredients to do that, luck, form, decisions, bounce of the ball, consistency and smarts.

I just don't see Wales possessing the smarts or consistency to win a world cup.

If it is consistency that counts then England must be right up there then?

Not sure what 'smarts' you are referring to and would like to know why you think we don't have them

As for consistency, we beat SA last autumn, Ireland last month. Both games involved a Plan B and we defended equally as well as any team i have ever seen. We have won 6/9 since the Autumn. It is a definite improvement on our record under Gatland. The key is to win Pool A, from there anything is possible so that means beating England and Australia. I have no concerns about England at home we beat them as recently as 2012 there, or 2 games ago. Aus is the worry as IMO they are as smart as NZ when it counts.

Biltong wrote:Yeah, I am sorry, but I just don't see Wales winning the World Cup.

You require a number of ingredients to do that, luck, form, decisions, bounce of the ball, consistency and smarts.

I just don't see Wales possessing the smarts or consistency to win a world cup.

Yeah not from that pool. Anyone in that pool has basically five consecutive must win matches. Whoever gets out of the pool will be fatigued and have a higher chance of injury to key players by having to play most of the top lineup for all five matches to win.

Wales usually have some good on the day results but minimum of four from five versus higher ranked's...it'd have to be some very good days in the sun...

I can't see past the three SH sides. I think Ireland will make the semi-finals, but I think NZ will defend their crown without too much trouble.

What will be seriously competitive though is that Group of Death. Those games between Australia, England and Wales will be epic.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I can't see past the three SH sides. I think Ireland will make the semi-finals, but I think NZ will defend their crown without too much trouble.

What will be seriously competitive though is that Group of Death. Those games between Australia, England and Wales will be epic.

If those game's produce anything like the super Saturday produced,. they will all be great games.

Taylorman wrote:

Biltong wrote:Yeah, I am sorry, but I just don't see Wales winning the World Cup.

You require a number of ingredients to do that, luck, form, decisions, bounce of the ball, consistency and smarts.

I just don't see Wales possessing the smarts or consistency to win a world cup.

Yeah not from that pool. Anyone in that pool has basically five consecutive must win matches. Whoever gets out of the pool will be fatigued and have a higher chance of injury to key players by having to play most of the top lineup for all five matches to win.  

Wales usually have some good on the day results but minimum of four from five versus higher ranked's...it'd have to be some very good days in the sun...

but surely all RWC matches are must win, it's a given…has anyone lost a game and won it?

Only one team has lost a group game and made the final.

Steve_rugby wrote:Only one team has lost a group game and made the final.

that's not right, both England in 07 and France in 11 lost in the group stages (twice in France's case), and gone on to make the final. It's true that no team has lost in the group stages and gone on to win it, but the same was true in football (I think) until Spain won in in 2010 after losing their opening match to Switzerland.

Not really the sort of statistic I pay much attention to. I also disagree with Tman that the winner of Group A will be too cooked. If England beat Wales and Australia in R2 and 3 say, they then play Uruguay, followed by (probably) Scotland or Samoa, so that's one easy game and one which should be relatively straightforward (given Scotland's current state to any Scottish fans), in which to "recharge their batteries" so to speak, before the SF and Final.

I dont think you use a QF to recharge your batteries... Not only it would be borderline arrogant but equally dangerous. Those knock-out games should be played as if there were the last games of your life and I expect the likes of Samoa, Scotland and France as well to bring that kind of attitude alongside their outsider tag.