Is this the start of the new dawn for Welsh rugby

First topic message reminder :

After seeing players start to commit to DC and players coming back to Wales on DC, then the in-fighting stopping, I have just read this on Ospreys website:-

The Joint Supporters Groups (Cardiff Blues Supporters Club, Friends of Newport Rugby Trust, Ospreys Supporters Club and Crys16 The Scarlets Supporters Trust) are happy and encouraged to confirm that the Welsh Rugby Union Chairman Gareth Davies and Professional Rugby Wales Chief Executive Mark Davies have invited us to a meeting on Saturday 25th April prior to Judgement Day III at the Millennium Stadium.

The Joint Supporters Groups have previously had several meetings with Professional Rugby Wales (formally Regional Rugby Wales) and one meeting with the Welsh Rugby Union and the aim of the meeting is to revive the relationship between the WRU and Supporters Groups. 

In a ground-breaking meeting this will be the first time that the Joint Supporters Groups, Professional Rugby Wales and the Welsh Rugby Union have jointly met and we hope that this will be the first of many meetings with and a long standing relationship.

We will update our members and supporters in due course and in the meantime hope for a great occasion at Judgement Day III.

I have also found this :-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... th-9121643

Is this the first signs of change for Welsh rugby ?

The way both of them seized power (when there was trouble within the organisation). The WRU & FAI would both have had weak boards of directors with a load of freeloaders. The witch hunt of Fran Rooney (who was ceo of the FAI) is worth reading up about. Similar to the witch hunt of Lewis. If Davies truly had the interests of Welsh rugby at heart he would not be getting rid of his CEO. I think its wrong as well considering his professional background of working for one of the regions.

Sin - bit of a strange thing to say... How did he seize power? He was elected following all due process.
How do we have a weak board with freeloaders? What a statement, not disagreeing with you but care to back it up?
How is getting rid of his CEO a bad move? Lewis wants to go, and forgetting this has to go in order to close the book on a horrible period in rugby history.
Isnt a background working in the second most senior organisation in welsh rugby a good idea before the most senior?

GAA? The best run in the world? Not saying its not, but i didn't realise there was an award? Nfl, premiership football, etc etc may disagree with you

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Lewis has announced he wants to move on himself hasn't he? Where does the "removed" come from.
For me I believe he realises he has lost his total control and therefore his ability to further his own personal agenda and as a result has decided to seek a new realm to dominate.

Yes. He is being allowed to stay though until after the Rugby World Cup.

On the old tinernet, Roger leaving the WRU seems to be viewed as some sort of victory for the plain people of Wales

Well, he was a business type charged with turning round the financials, but got himself mixed up in the grassroots somehow. Never should have been allowed to meddle in the rugby side, IMO.

He was the CEO of the organisation which includes the grassroots. It was up to the Board to direct his activities - but they all seem to be on the gravy train.

Sin é wrote:

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Lewis has announced he wants to move on himself hasn't he? Where does the "removed" come from.
For me I believe he realises he has lost his total control and therefore his ability to further his own personal agenda and as a result has decided to seek a new realm to dominate.

Yes. He is being allowed to stay though until after the Rugby World Cup.

On the old tinernet, Roger leaving the WRU seems to be viewed as some sort of victory for the plain people of Wales

Well, he was a business type charged with turning round the financials, but got himself mixed up in the grassroots somehow. Never should have been allowed to meddle in the rugby side, IMO.

He was the CEO of the organisation which includes the grassroots. It was up to the Board to direct his activities - but they all seem to be on the gravy train.

On the gravy train? Based on what? Or just more guesswork?

Draigoch wrote:The way both of them seized power (when there was trouble within the organisation). The WRU & FAI would both have had weak boards of directors with a load of freeloaders. The witch hunt of Fran Rooney (who was ceo of the FAI) is worth reading up about. Similar to the witch hunt of Lewis. If Davies truly had the interests of Welsh rugby at heart he would not be getting rid of his CEO. I think its wrong as well considering his professional background of working for one of the regions.

Sin - bit of a strange thing to say... How did he seize power? He was elected following all due process.
How do we have a weak board with freeloaders? What a statement, not disagreeing with you but care to back it up?
How is getting rid of his CEO a bad move? Lewis wants to go, and forgetting this has to go in order to close the book on a horrible period in rugby history.
Isnt a background working in the second most senior organisation in welsh rugby a good idea before the most senior?

GAA? The best run in the world? Not saying its not, but i didn't realise there was an award? Nfl, premiership football, etc etc may disagree with you

Delaney was on the Board of the FAI (Hon. Treasurer) who sacked Fran Rooney. He kindly offered to step into the breach and lo and behold he then got the fulltime job at 400K per annum. He was part of the board that sacked his predecessor.

As for WRU - first of all your board of directors are paid (at a cost of the WRU in 2014 of £402,000).

From WRU Annual Report: 'The emoluments above include a fee of £35,000 (2013: £35,000) payable to the Chairman. The Group received £18,000 (2013: £17,000) from third parties in respect of the above emoluments. There is one Director accruing benefits under a defined contribution
pension scheme (2013: none).

With about 16 directors, each gets about 21K per annum and probably why most of them have been hanging on in there for the last 10 to 20 years and how difficult it will be to effect any corporate change in attitude. Its a gravy train.

When I say the GAA is the best run sporting organisation in the world, its for its corporate governance. Its truly democractic - for example, to allow rugby to be played in Croke Park, a motion had to be put to the GAA Congress in 2005 where the grass roots got to vote on it. The vote was 227 votes for the opening, with 97 voting against.

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Lewis has announced he wants to move on himself hasn't he? Where does the "removed" come from.
For me I believe he realises he has lost his total control and therefore his ability to further his own personal agenda and as a result has decided to seek a new realm to dominate.

Yes. He is being allowed to stay though until after the Rugby World Cup.

On the old tinernet, Roger leaving the WRU seems to be viewed as some sort of victory for the plain people of Wales

Well, he was a business type charged with turning round the financials, but got himself mixed up in the grassroots somehow. Never should have been allowed to meddle in the rugby side, IMO.

He was the CEO of the organisation which includes the grassroots. It was up to the Board to direct his activities - but they all seem to be on the gravy train.

On the gravy train? Based on what? Or just more guesswork?

WRU Annual Report.

Being an executive chair is always a difficult task - and keeping the boundaries between that role and the CEO is often fraught with difficulty.   Strong corporate governance and a strong, independent board can keep a lot of that in check.

The appointment by Davies of two apparently strong NEDs is a good move, and one that could be usefully replicated in other unions, particularly ones populated by legacy blazers.   I wouldn't pay Director emoluments of more than €/£10k to anyone - keeps the person interested but not enough to cling onto.  And anyway, board members should ideally be selected based on a pre-agreed maximum term, so they can move on voluntarily, or be moved on.

Do Welsh supporters think there should be a representative of Welsh supporters on the board - e.g. from the above-mentioned JSG or some other grouping?

Sin é wrote:

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Lewis has announced he wants to move on himself hasn't he? Where does the "removed" come from.
For me I believe he realises he has lost his total control and therefore his ability to further his own personal agenda and as a result has decided to seek a new realm to dominate.

Yes. He is being allowed to stay though until after the Rugby World Cup.

On the old tinernet, Roger leaving the WRU seems to be viewed as some sort of victory for the plain people of Wales

Well, he was a business type charged with turning round the financials, but got himself mixed up in the grassroots somehow. Never should have been allowed to meddle in the rugby side, IMO.

He was the CEO of the organisation which includes the grassroots. It was up to the Board to direct his activities - but they all seem to be on the gravy train.

On the gravy train? Based on what? Or just more guesswork?

WRU Annual Report.

No, the WRU report says they're paid. 'Gray train' implies money for nothing; a free ride; milking the WRU. The WRU report (obviously) says nothing of the sort. So I was just wondering what your source was? Fine if it's just personal opinion, but something a bit more substantial would be better.

Pot Hale wrote:

Do Welsh supporters think there should be a representative of Welsh supporters on the board - e.g. from the above-mentioned JSG or some other grouping?

Pot Hale, yes I think that would be a good move. Does it happen elsewhere?

Ok, people, please do not rip me apart over this, but I have been asking questions of people who have their fingers in the pie to say the least when it comes to Cardiff Blues, I asked the following question and this one person gave me quite an interesting answer. The question I asked was, why did the WRU forbid you having anything to do with the clubs in your region ? I also put this question forward to the man who is in charge of running my local rugby club.

The answer I was given was, that the regions were trying to tell their academy players to change clubs and were trying to make them chose the colleges and universities that they wanted them to be in. They were then told by the WRU to butt out of the club game and to stop influencing young kids.

I was then given this link, so that I might know what the protocol was:-

http://afanneddrugby.co.uk/wru-policy-on-post-16-education/

Now please do not rip me apart, but perhaps the regions were not as squeaky clean in all this as I would like to think/hope. They should not be influencing where the kids play, or where they take their higher education, that is not up to them.

I have also found this news on the Ospreys site, looks as though the meeting went well:-

http://www.ospreyssupportersclub.co.uk/ ... m-cardiff/

As I have said, please do not rip me apart, I just happened to be in the club when certain people were there last night, and this is only what they told me, I know there are other people on here who know more people with more influence who could either give more details or different reasons, I just thought people on here might be interested to know what information I was given.

Sin é wrote:The way both of them seized power (when there was trouble within the organisation).

He's elected by the welsh rugby clubs, not seizing power. As the chairman he has the right to change things as he see's fit. Look at the board members and compare them to the RFU or SRU, you'll see the issues he's having to deal with.

Sin é wrote:If Davies truly had the interests of Welsh rugby at heart he would not be getting rid of his CEO. I think its wrong as well considering his professional background of working for one of the regions.

Why is it wrong? He was chief exec for the dragons for, what? A year? He was also chief exec of Cardiff RFC too. Maybe we should have stuck with Pickering in charge? A failed business man with company debts over £4 million? That worked didn't it?

If you think it's wrong, have a word with those who voted for him because that's how he was given the job.

Sin é wrote:On the old tinernet, Roger leaving the WRU seems to be viewed as some sort of victory for the plain people of Wales

Who do you mean by plain people? Do you mean the people who volunteer to work at the local clubs because they haven't got enough money to pay for staff? Do you mean the players who turn up on a saturday in their free time to play for their club and get hammered by 100 points because of a ridiculous league restructure? Or do you mean the numbers of people walking away from the club game because of the damage that's been done by this man and pickering?

You know absolutely nothing about welsh rugby but are still happy to talk down to/about people who have been affected first hand by this union. Just because you can look at a set of accounts it doesn't mean you understand the issue, you just know the figures.

Sin é wrote: If Davies truly had the interests of Welsh rugby at heart he would not be getting rid of his CEO.

What an absolutely moronic comment. This man has destroyed domestic welsh rugby from the inside out for goodness sake. With the greatest of respect - You haven't got a pigging clue what you are talking about.

Chunky Norwich wrote:This man has destroyed domestic welsh rugby from the inside out for goodness sake

Whilst I agree with that statement, I think he was right to intervene when the regions were trying to tell the kids where to play their rugby and where to take their higher education. There are still bridges that need to be built between the clubs and the regions.

LordDowlais wrote:

Whilst I agree with that statement, I think he was right to intervene when the regions were trying to tell the kids where to play their rugby and where to take their higher education.

That's all well and good. But when the regions get accused of "Washing their hands of the community game" you can see why they get peed off....it's because they've been told to.

Chunky Norwich wrote:it's because they've been told to

Yes, well perhaps they should not be getting above their stations and start playing God with young kids futures, who are the regions to decide where kids play rugby, or go to college, no wonder people in the club structure are peed off with them, why should kids who have played rugby with one club, and earned their right to have a look at the regional academy then be told they should be playing their rugby somewhere else, no wonder clubs are going to the wall because they do not have enough players coming through.

It should be up to the person and his parents where they go for education, and where they play grass roots rugby. Not the choice of the regions.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:it's because they've been told to

Yes, well perhaps they should not be getting above their stations and start playing God with young kids futures, who are the regions to decide where kids play rugby, or go to college, no wonder people in the club structure are peed off with them, why should kids who have played rugby with one club, and earned their right to have a look at the regional academy then be told they should be playing their rugby somewhere else, no wonder clubs are going to the wall because they do not have enough players coming through.

It should be up to the person and his parents where they go for education, and where they play grass roots rugby.

Not looking bright for the new WRU CEO then....because it seems with all the linkages talked about by Davies, they'll be having a re-go at regionalising the future of where kids play.

Like some have said things I think are starting to look up. However there is still a lot of mis-trust hanging over the Union that it won't be a quick fix.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:it's because they've been told to

Yes, well perhaps they should not be getting above their stations and start playing God with young kids futures, who are the regions to decide where kids play rugby, or go to college, no wonder people in the club structure are peed off with them, why should kids who have played rugby with one club, and earned their right to have a look at the regional academy then be told they should be playing their rugby somewhere else, no wonder clubs are going to the wall because they do not have enough players coming through.

It should be up to the person and his parents where they go for education, and where they play grass roots rugby. Not the choice of the regions.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Come on this sort of thing has been going on for years especially in the amateur days with bigger clubs trying to poach youngsters, only difference is now is its above board etc.

As I was coming up through the ranks with RTBs and Ebbw youth I remember Ian Watkins the then Ebbw Vale hooker getting capped for Wales and we all thought it was great. He was then told that unless he moved to a 'bigger' club (he moved to Cardiff) he wouldn't have a long Welsh carear.

There are loads more stories of players who played for unfashionable clubs being told the same.

SecretFly wrote:they'll be having a re-go at regionalising the future of where kids play.

I think that is more to do with, not allowing the regions to rip kids from there grass roots clubs, to put them in a club that is more convenient for them. The regions should have an obligation to look after the kids, and do what is best for them, not the region.

When the regions have invested, and the kids then get into the academies then perhaps the regions could give them to the semi pro clubs, but when they are 14/15/16 years of age they should be allowed to stay with their mates and go to college with their mates as well, in the town in which they are from. Not get told by the regions, it would be better if you played for such and such, and we want you to go to this college, and not the one where you live, who are they to make these decisions ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:it's because they've been told to

Yes, well perhaps they should not be getting above their stations and start playing God with young kids futures, who are the regions to decide where kids play rugby, or go to college, no wonder people in the club structure are peed off with them, why should kids who have played rugby with one club, and earned their right to have a look at the regional academy then be told they should be playing their rugby somewhere else, no wonder clubs are going to the wall because they do not have enough players coming through.

It should be up to the person and his parents where they go for education, and where they play grass roots rugby. Not the choice of the regions.

who are the regions to decide where kids play rugby, or go to college

if they are signed to the Academy they have every right in terms of club rugby. If you sign to the Osprey's then they will align you to one of their regional clubs. Why would you want your academy player playing for Pyle in Division 3 when you can allocate them to bridgend?

no wonder clubs are going to the wall because they do not have enough players coming through.

Yes because it's the fault of the Pro Teams (they're not regional teams, fyi) club numbers are falling.

Pontycymmer RFC dropped out of the league this year. Blame the Ospreys, i guess?

in any case, if the pro teams were told not to do what they were (apparently) doing then why would they go public and say the WRU has stopped them? They'd be opening themselves up to be shot down.

I believe that bloke was telling you a few porkies.

bedfordwelsh wrote:There are loads more stories of players who played for unfashionable clubs being told the same.

Bedford, this is a bit different, who are the regions to tell kids where to go for their education ? Also, they are killing the little clubs, three kids, well I say kids, they were 15yrs old and twice the size of me, were told that they should not be at their club they are with, they should perhaps be playing for Merthyr. Now Merthyr already have decent numbers for age grade, our local club are struggling, if they lost these kids then it could stop the whole age grade because of lack of players. It's not as if these kids have made it, and are playing for an unfashionable club, and they should move to get more Welsh caps.

What happens to these kids if they do not make it for the regions ? They will be lost from their local side for ever, if they moved on their own account then fine, but they are not, they are moving because the regions were telling them to. This is where the complaints were coming from, and this is why the WRU stepped in and told the regions to butt out, well this is what I was told by the secretary of my local club, I was pretty oblivious to all this if I am honest, with two daughters I never paid that much attention to the age grade rugby at my club, I often watched the seniors but I never really knew of the plight of the age grade until I asked the question last night. Boy, have my eyes been opened.

gcBlues wrote:I believe that bloke was telling you a few porkies.

He was the one who gave me the link to the WRU mandate that I posted above, I will put on here for again:-

http://afanneddrugby.co.uk/wru-policy-on-post-16-education/

It must have become an issue of concern for the WRU, to do this, I suggest you have a read of it, it is not even that big and will only take a minute to read.

LordDowlais wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:There are loads more stories of players who played for unfashionable clubs being told the same.

Bedford, this is a bit different, who are the regions to tell kids where to go for their education ? Also, they are killing the little clubs, three kids, well I say kids, they were 15yrs old and twice the size of me, were told that they should not be at their club they are with, they should perhaps be playing for Merthyr. Now Merthyr already have decent numbers for age grade, our local club are struggling, if they lost these kids then it could stop the whole age grade because of lack of players. It's not as if these kids have made it, and are playing for an unfashionable club, and they should move to get more Welsh caps.

What happens to these kids if they do not make it for the regions ? They will be lost from their local side for ever, if they moved on their own account then fine, but they are not, they are moving because the regions were telling them to. This is where the complaints were coming from, and this is why the WRU stepped in and told the regions to butt out, well this is what I was told by the secretary of my local club, I was pretty oblivious to all this if I am honest, with two daughters I never paid that much attention to the age grade rugby at my club, I often watched the seniors but I never really knew of the plight of the age grade until I asked the question last night. Boy, have my eyes been opened.

So talent has been identified and offered the chance to play at a better club at a higher level? But you think they should stay playing for their local side? Sheesh. You make these lads out to be victims. But I tell you the real victim. It will be the lad who had the chance to play at a semi-pro club but was made to stay playing in Division 20 by Lord Dowlais. He's the lad who'll be crying into his soup at the missed opportunity.

In terms of the colleges, I believe some of the regional academies are actually college based? Or at least the college structure fits in there somewhere. Coleg Gwent had something like 80% Dragons contingent in one of the tournaments I saw (inter-college tournament?). So I can see why further education colleges may be pushed by some regions: to keep these lads within their region (selfish I suppose) but also to make sure these lads don't miss out altogether as if you leave the academy structure then they may be lost.

Not sure what you mean by higher education. We have (or had) a fund and support structure for young pro/semi pro athletes to help them study and compete at the same time. Other universities don't have that. So I know that my old boss (Ex WRU) often met with players and their parents to highlight what was on offer for them if they went to our uni over another one. It was more about elite player support than poaching or selfishness from the region, to be honest. Also, coming through the academy they have a development pathway all the way to pro rugby within the region. Going from Newport, for example, to study in London meant that they were stepping away from their pathway with no guarantee that they would be picked up by a London club. Again, it is about making players aware of what they're potentially giving up. As long as they know then that's no problem. That can be seen as 'trying to influence where they study'. But often these players are a bit naiive at 17/18 years of age and need be given the full facts.

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Lewis has announced he wants to move on himself hasn't he? Where does the "removed" come from.
For me I believe he realises he has lost his total control and therefore his ability to further his own personal agenda and as a result has decided to seek a new realm to dominate.

Yes. He is being allowed to stay though until after the Rugby World Cup.

On the old tinernet, Roger leaving the WRU seems to be viewed as some sort of victory for the plain people of Wales

Well, he was a business type charged with turning round the financials, but got himself mixed up in the grassroots somehow. Never should have been allowed to meddle in the rugby side, IMO.

He was the CEO of the organisation which includes the grassroots. It was up to the Board to direct his activities - but they all seem to be on the gravy train.

On the gravy train? Based on what? Or just more guesswork?

WRU Annual Report.

No, the WRU report says they're paid.  'Gray train' implies money for nothing; a free ride; milking the WRU.  The WRU report (obviously) says nothing of the sort.  So I was just wondering what your source was?  Fine if it's just personal opinion, but something a bit more substantial would be better.

In Ireland (ROI part), for sporting organisations to avail of sporting tax exemption, the non-executive directors are not allowed to receive any payment (to stop people hanging in there and answerable to no one). As well as that, directors of boards have to step down after 2 years and can be re-elected for a further 2 years. After that they are gone. That is regarded as good practice for sporting organisations.

The WRU seem to be heading in that direction with their recent director appointments. Neither are getting paid.

Grif, I am talking about KIDS, 14 and 15yr olds. If when they are old enough to be semi pro, then yes, fine, put them into the semi pro teams, but what is wrong with the way they used to do it with the districts ? You were allowed to carry on with your butties in your side, but you still trained and played with both the district and your club.

What is happening now is, kids from one village team are being told to go and play in a side a few miles away, for the same age grade, what difference does it make what side they play for at that age ? OK they can still be a part of the regional academies, they can still follow the academy rules, but keep them at their original club until they are ready.

Sin, I believe the board members at the WRU are elected by the clubs. So they are accountable. They can have a vote of no confidence. They can be removed. As a union I believe the member clubs have the say (or at least some say). Is this not the case in Ireland?

Griff wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:There are loads more stories of players who played for unfashionable clubs being told the same.

Bedford, this is a bit different, who are the regions to tell kids where to go for their education ? Also, they are killing the little clubs, three kids, well I say kids, they were 15yrs old and twice the size of me, were told that they should not be at their club they are with, they should perhaps be playing for Merthyr. Now Merthyr already have decent numbers for age grade, our local club are struggling, if they lost these kids then it could stop the whole age grade because of lack of players. It's not as if these kids have made it, and are playing for an unfashionable club, and they should move to get more Welsh caps.

What happens to these kids if they do not make it for the regions ? They will be lost from their local side for ever, if they moved on their own account then fine, but they are not, they are moving because the regions were telling them to. This is where the complaints were coming from, and this is why the WRU stepped in and told the regions to butt out, well this is what I was told by the secretary of my local club, I was pretty oblivious to all this if I am honest, with two daughters I never paid that much attention to the age grade rugby at my club, I often watched the seniors but I never really knew of the plight of the age grade until I asked the question last night. Boy, have my eyes been opened.

So talent has been identified and offered the chance to play at a better club at a higher level?  But you think they should stay playing for their local side?  Sheesh.  You make these lads out to be victims.  But I tell you the real victim.  It will be the lad who had the chance to play at a semi-pro club but was made to stay playing in Division 20 by Lord Dowlais.  He's the lad who'll be crying into his soup at the missed opportunity.

LordDowlais wrote:Grif, I am talking about KIDS, 14 and 15yr olds. If when they are old enough to be semi pro, then yes, fine, put them into the semi pro teams, but what is wrong with the way they used to do it with the districts ? You were allowed to carry on with your butties in your side, but you still trained and played with both the district and your club.

What is happening now is, kids from one village team are being told to go and play in a side a few miles away, for the same age grade, what difference does it make what side they play for at that age ? OK they can still be a part of the regional academies, they can still follow the academy rules, but keep them at their original club until they are ready.

In my experience they're told that at youth level, not at ages 14 and 15.

The Saint wrote:In my experience they're told that at youth level, not at ages 14 and 15.

Not at my club, we have kids as young as 14yrs old being put on strict rules of what to eat and how to behave if they want to make it in pro rugby, there is one kid in particular who is in the Blues academy setup, and his parents shopping bill has almost doubled, no salt this, low sugar that, the kid is not even allowed to eat McDonalds FFS. He is not to be hanging around the town late at night, when his mates are all causing mischief around the skateboard parks until the street lights come on, they need to show serious commitment from a very young age in this pro era. The least they should be allowed is to stay with their mates until they are 17/18 yrs old. Which is why I think the WRU stepped in originally. Ok they could have met each other half way, but I think the strain between the regions and the WRU were at breaking point when this was first announced by Andrew Hore.

Griff wrote:Sin, I believe the board members at the WRU are elected by the clubs.  So they are accountable.  They can have a vote of no confidence.  They can be removed.  As a union I believe the member clubs have the say (or at least some say).  Is this not the case in Ireland?

Being directly elected by the clubs just leads to parochialism. Do these reps report back to each individual club? If that is so, no wonder Welsh rugby is such a mess.

All the clubs have representation on their Provincial Branch, who in turn elect 2 representatives to the IRFU. The Exiles have one representative.

The earlier the better I suppose. I'd at least let him have a mcondalds on the weekend though . Seriously do you think being told to eat healthy is a bad thing given the amount of fat kids in the UK? Pro rugby players have and still live a happy life, I think this is being exaggerated.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:In my experience they're told that at youth level, not at ages 14 and 15.

Not at my club, we have kids as young as 14yrs old being put on strict rules of what to eat and how to behave if they want to make it in pro rugby, there is one kid in particular who is in the Blues academy setup, and his parents shopping bill has almost doubled, no salt this, low sugar that, the kid is not even allowed to eat McDonalds FFS. He is not to be hanging around the town late at night, when his mates are all causing mischief around the skateboard parks until the street lights come on, they need to show serious commitment from a very young age in this pro era. The least they should be allowed is to stay with their mates until they are 17/18 yrs old. Which is why I think the WRU stepped in originally. Ok they could have met each other half way, but I think the strain between the regions and the WRU  were at breaking point when this was first announced by Andrew Hore.

I can't really see a problem with that, in lots of areas in the UK these kids are the ones who need to have some sort of goal be told what can and can't do because if they are left to own devices you see so much anti social behaviour it gets out of hand, look at all the grass fires of late.

The Saint wrote:The earlier the better I suppose. I'd at least let him have a mcondalds on the weekend though . Seriously do you think being told to eat healthy is a bad thing given the amount of fat kids in the UK? Pro rugby players have and still live a happy life, I think this is being exaggerated.

Well I find myself at a bemusement, what is the world coming to, something me and the Saint agree on, is this the first time ever ? I kid you not though, his parents tell us all the time, it costs them a lot of money for their kid, but that is what it takes I suppose. They do not stop him having a McDonalds, but the academy does not like it to be the norm. Also, when you think about it, pros are given menu's on what they need to eat, I saw what Jake Ball eats on a daily basis, and trust me it would feed me and you for a week.

I like the way they are encouraged to behave by the academies, I also like they way they teach them how to eat properly, but I do not like the way they try and tell them where to take their higher education, and where to play grass roots rugby.

bedfordwelsh wrote:look at all the grass fires of late.

You honestly believe this is all down to those pesky kids ?

I know for a fact that the farmers cause a lot of grass fires. They will never admit it though.

Having been born and bred in that area and seeing them as a kid yeah I believe its a lot to do with kids who claim to be bored etc etc.

Well get into some sort of positive club/group excercise system and use all that energy the right way.

I agree Beds, I used to start my own fair share of them when I was a kid.

Where I live in Merthyr, I am right on the mountain, there is a massive farm behind me, and I know I have seen Mr Farmer lighting his fields on fire during the spring so that he gets rid of all the dry yellow/beige scrub, and within a day you can see the green grass coming through again, within a week, his sheep and cattle are in the field chewing the cud. But when it gets out of hand, he is up in arms because those no good punk kids have been playing havoc with their lighters again.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:In my experience they're told that at youth level, not at ages 14 and 15.

Not at my club, we have kids as young as 14yrs old being put on strict rules of what to eat and how to behave if they want to make it in pro rugby, there is one kid in particular who is in the Blues academy setup, and his parents shopping bill has almost doubled, no salt this, low sugar that, the kid is not even allowed to eat McDonalds FFS. He is not to be hanging around the town late at night, when his mates are all causing mischief around the skateboard parks until the street lights come on, they need to show serious commitment from a very young age in this pro era. The least they should be allowed is to stay with their mates until they are 17/18 yrs old.

What's wrong with that? The professional game has pathways to it and that is just modern day sport, it's the same with football. If Chelsea sign an U16 player to their academy, he then doesn't just go play in his sunday league team because he's with his mates. He's put on a programme and plays in a system which is geared towards creating a professional football player.

If i was in an academy at the age of 15 and the organisation i was playing for asked me to change what i eat, who i play with because in their eyes it would enable my chances of becoming a pro player i'd do it because i wanted to play professional rugby.

gcBlues wrote:If i was in an academy at the age of 15 and the organisation i was playing for asked me to change what i eat, who i play with because in their eyes it would enable my chances of becoming a pro player i'd do it because i wanted to play professional rugby.

I agree with the strict behaviour rules and the diets, I just think it is hard enough for a 15yr old, why can't he keep playing rugby with his mates until he is old enough to represent the age grades for the regions ? What difference does it make if he is playing rugby three or four miles down the road instead of where he is now ? Why must he change clubs at that age ? When he is playing youth, then fine, but when they are kids, leave them where they are.

From what I remember, they only miss the odd game for their local club, not the entire season. When it gets to U16s it gets a bit more serious and rightly so. Wales U16 Druids and Celts did fairly well in that recent tournament, I wonder if this is a result of this new professional attitude being introduced at a young age. PS I'd advise these kids parents to start shopping at Aldi's. The amount of money I save by buying chicken, beef and salmon there is astonishing.

The Saint wrote: PS I'd advise these kids parents to start shopping at Aldi's. The amount of money I save by buying chicken, beef and salmon there is astonishing.

To be honest Saint, they do go there, it's just they are so paranoid about buying the wrong stuff half the time it's easier to go to Asda. It still adds up though, by the time they have bought their organic this, and low fat that, and low sugar fruit juices, and the what not. It is not like us, where we can buy 4 2ltr bottles of pop for £2, and two bottles of Coke for £3, fizzy pops are a definite no go area.

This is why I get so annoyed when I hear people saying things like, "feck me, look at the size of him, he is only eighteen, what is he taking?" I hate it when people accuse the youngsters of today of taking "extras" because they are so big. It is because they are committed from a young age, they are eating the right foods, doing the correct exorcises, and generally taking care of themselves from a young age due to the regional academies instilling it in them, from a young age, when most kids at that age are out caging a bottle of cider off somebody and drinking it around the back of the shops, these kids are in the house, behaving, and doing the correct work to hopefully take that slim chance of being a pro, they should be congratulated for they way they look, not get accused of sinister things to look that way.

gcBlues wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:it's because they've been told to

Yes, well perhaps they should not be getting above their stations and start playing God with young kids futures, who are the regions to decide where kids play rugby, or go to college, no wonder people in the club structure are peed off with them, why should kids who have played rugby with one club, and earned their right to have a look at the regional academy then be told they should be playing their rugby somewhere else, no wonder clubs are going to the wall because they do not have enough players coming through.

It should be up to the person and his parents where they go for education, and where they play grass roots rugby. Not the choice of the regions.

who are the regions to decide where kids play rugby, or go to college

if they are signed to the Academy they have every right in terms of club rugby. If you sign to the Osprey's then they will align you to one of their regional clubs. Why would you want your academy player playing for Pyle in Division 3 when you can allocate them to bridgend?

no wonder clubs are going to the wall because they do not have enough players coming through.

Yes because it's the fault of the Pro Teams (they're not regional teams, fyi) club numbers are falling.

Pontycymmer RFC dropped out of the league this year. Blame the Ospreys, i guess?

GC, I know we had a conversation a few months ago about Pontycymmer folding and it appeared at the time that they would, but they are struggling on, just to keep you informed they lost last Saturday to Maesteg at home 144-8, they had a previous midweek game which they lost, the previous weekend they again lost at home to Pencoed 98-0, both these teams in previous seasons were at least 2 Leagues above us, this is the work of the Dodger and his cohorts, they shouldn't be getting just these Non Executive Members, many of those old farts should be discarded as well, it is their inability to control Lewis that has cost the Community game dear

LordDowlais wrote:Ok, people, please do not rip me apart over this, but I have been asking questions of people who have their fingers in the pie to say the least when it comes to Cardiff Blues, I asked the following question and this one person gave me quite an interesting answer. The question I asked was, why did the WRU forbid you having anything to do with the clubs in your region ? I also put this question forward to the man who is in charge of running my local rugby club.

The answer I was given was, that the regions were trying to tell their academy players to change clubs and were trying to make them chose the colleges and universities that they wanted them to be in. They were then told by the WRU to butt out of the club game and to stop influencing young kids.

I was then given this link, so that I might know what the protocol was:-

http://afanneddrugby.co.uk/wru-policy-on-post-16-education/

Now please do not rip me apart, but perhaps the regions were not as squeaky clean in all this as I would like to think/hope. They should not be influencing where the kids play, or where they take their higher education, that is not up to them.

I have also found this news on the Ospreys site, looks as though the meeting went well:-

http://www.ospreyssupportersclub.co.uk/ ... m-cardiff/

As I have said, please do not rip me apart, I just happened to be in the club when certain people were there last night, and this is only what they told me, I know there are other people on here who know more people with more influence who could either give more details or different reasons, I just thought people on here might be interested to know what information I was given.

Lord did you read the part in the supporters meeting with the WRU and PRW about the competence of the Referees, and the mention of the 2 coaches among others who were involved.

wayne wrote:Lord did you read the part in the supporters meeting with the WRU and PRW about the competence of the Referees, and the mention of the 2 coaches among others who were involved.

Yes, I did notice that right at the end, but I did not want to say anything about it just in case I got accused of things and was told to put my tin foil hat on. But it does look like certain coaches share the same worries as me about the level of reffing in our league, so it is nice to see I am not alone.

LordDowlais wrote:

wayne wrote:Lord did you read the part in the supporters meeting with the WRU and PRW about the competence of the Referees, and the mention of the 2 coaches among others who were involved.

Yes, I did notice that right at the end, but I did not want to say anything about it just in case I got accused of things and was told to put my tin foil hat on. But it does look like certain coaches share the same worries as me about the level of reffing in our league, so it is nice to see I am not alone.

Yes it was nice that the 2 coaches mentioned were Tandy and Townsend, it was ironic that a certain Nations coaches were NOT mentioned.

wayne wrote: it was ironic that a certain Nations coaches were NOT mentioned.

Yes it is quite ironic, perhaps others in more authoritative positions are now seeing what I am seeing.

Oh dear me....................... a SNP/Plaid Cymru alliance against the Conservative Irish?????

Is that what I'm meant to be thinking about all this Tandy/Townsend/Irony/Supporters Representatives Lingo?????

Oh the Horror.......... the Horror..............

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32540275

Just something else to throw onto the fire

Think it's confirmed now. Roberts to Harlequins.

So???? For the Welsh Regionaleers - what exactly could a Cap contrained Harlequins offer Roberts that a new WRU supported Central Contract regime for a Welsh Region couldn't?

SecretFly wrote:Think it's confirmed now.  Roberts to Harlequins.  

So????  For the Welsh Regionaleers - what exactly could a Cap contrained Harlequins offer Roberts that a new WRU supported Central Contract regime  for a Welsh Region couldn't?

A chance of playing in a good league. And perhaps a few more pounds in the bank.