Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby, 16 May

First topic message reminder :

                  
Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby
Saturday 16 May 2015
KO: 15:00
Chateau Soapdodger, Glasgow

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Ian Davies (WRU, 31st competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Sam Grove-White (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Paul Minto (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)

A. Head to Head

25 Played 25
11 Wins 13
13 Losses 11
1 Draws 1
40 Tries 46
28 Conversions 31
62 Penalties 65
6 Drop Goals 0
460 Points 487
26 Avg. Age 27

B. Form

Sat 11 Oct 2014 - Ulster Rugby 29 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 18 Apr 2014 - Glasgow Warriors 27 - 9 Ulster Rugby

Fri 13 Sep 2013 - Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors

C. Teams

Glasgow Warriors

15. Stuart Hogg
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Richie Vernon
12. Peter Horne
11. Sean Lamont
10. Finn Russell
9. Niko Matawalu

1. Ryan Grant  
2. Dougie Hall
3. Rossouw de Klerk
4. Jonny Gray
5. Al Kellock (Captain)
6. Josh Strauss
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Adam Ashe

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Gordon Reid
18. Mike Cusack
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Henry Pyrgos
22. Duncan Weir
23. Peter Murchie

Ulster Rugby

(15-9): L Ludik; R Scholes, S Arnold, S McCloskey, M Allen, I Humphreys, P Marshall;

(1-8): A Warwick, R Herring, R Lutton, L Stevenson, F van der Merwe, C Ross, C Henry (C), R Diack

Replacements (16-23): R Best, K McCall, B Ross, I Henderson, R Wilson, R Pienaar, P Jackson, T Bowe.

BigGee wrote:
Lee Jones is off to play sevens this weekend, does that mean one of our other wingers is fit? I would rather see DTH line up and Niko cover 9 from the bench, now him and Naka are impact players!

Lamont is due to come back and take a bench place. Very good timing to have him back given all the other injuries.

He apparently played in a bounce game against Scotland under 20s last week - was a bit of a pumping apparently! Men against boys (literally) he described it.

Breadvan wrote:Hey fellas. I don't mean to hijack the thread but the family bread are spending a few days at Loch Tay in 2 weeks and the Mrs is adamant about a day trip to Edinburgh. Any advice for some hapless tourists? Ta...

Well for a start you're on the wrong thread - you'll get nothing but derogatory comments about Edinburgh from our great unwashed brethren from the West!

I'd recommend asking the question on the Edinburgh thread

https://www.606v2.com/t58948-edinburgh-rugby-vs-leinster

Thought I wrote this on the Glas/Edin banter page. Sorry all...

Breadvan wrote: Thought I wrote this on the Glas/Edin banter page. Sorry all...

Well, I think you should definitely go to Edinburgh for a day. It's probably one of the most beautiful cities in Europe.

In other news, like Stuart 'Sonny Bill' McCloskey is starting.

Notch wrote:

Breadvan wrote: Thought I wrote this on the Glas/Edin banter page. Sorry all...

Well, I think you should definitely go to Edinburgh for a day. It's probably one of the most beautiful cities in Europe.

In other news, like Stuart 'Sonny Bill' McCloskey is starting.

Someone should tell Breadvan you have more fun at a Glasgow funeral than an Edinburgh wedding

Atmos building for tomorrow - think it might be 'pure mental' at Scotstoun tomorrow. Early try for the boys in black and blue required Toonie. Sean L( and Rory Best) in The Herald saying the atmosphere generated is unbelievably intense and very loud/intimidating. Remember the Munster semi last year ? Awesome !

Jimbo - you travelling to the SF - home or (gulp!) away ? If so how the feck do you get to Thomond - cant believe I thought typed that !!!!!!

Edinburgh is indeed a beautiful place to visit and there's nothing as nice as an early morning romp up Arthur's seat........oops let me rephrase that!!!

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Someone should tell Breadvan you have more fun at a Glasgow funeral than an Edinburgh wedding

One less weegie. What's not to celebrate....

I see the semis are Friday 22nd and Saturday 23rd. Does anyone know which is which? 1stv3rd/2ndv4th. I'm working Saturday. so....

Teams will be named soon. Think Ulster starting 15 could look something like:

Ludik
Bowe
Payne
McCloskey
Gilroy
Jackson
Marshall
Warwick
Best*
Ross
Tuohy
Van der Merwe
Henderson
Henry
Wilson

*Herring might start with Best benched.

Munchkin wrote:Teams will be named soon. Think Ulster starting 15 could look something like:

Ludik
Bowe
Payne
McCloskey
Gilroy
Jackson
Marshall
Warwick
Best*
Ross
Tuohy
Van der Merwe
Henderson
Henry
Wilson

*Herring might start with Best benched.

I'd love to see McCloskey get a full game!

I think Diack should start as well, I don't think we lose much if we swap Diack for Wilson and he'll have to play number 8 in the semis if Wilson comes off.

Munchkin wrote:Teams will be named soon. Think Ulster starting 15 could look something like:

Ludik
Bowe
Payne
McCloskey
Gilroy
Jackson
Marshall
Warwick
Best*
Ross
Tuohy
Van der Merwe
Henderson
Henry
Wilson

*Herring might start with Best benched.

Strong team considering it's missing Trimble, Olding, Pienaar, Herbst and Best on the bench.

I think Cave might be carrying a knock. I agree, Notch. I don't think we would lose much with Diack starting. He's playing well and he should be fresh, while Wilson is another player who could probably do with a rest on the bench.
Van der Merwe is another who needs a rest, I think. He's been a great signing for us this season.

clivemcl wrote:I see the semis are Friday 22nd and Saturday 23rd. Does anyone know which is which? 1stv3rd/2ndv4th. I'm working Saturday. so....

At the moment no-one knows who is playing in which one, Clive.
Schiz, it's the Feckless Rogue's Stag weekend and I have to attend.
One of Princess Daughter's bridesmaids asked her if she was worried about anything untoward occurring on the stag do and she said, with a straight face, "My dad's going so it'll all be very sensible."
I have already checked out the sports bars in Bournemouth and as soon as I know which semi we're playing in I'll be booking a table near a screen. The Warriors jersey will be packed and ready to go.
What could possibly go wrong?

Ulster have named basically a reserve side with a view towards getting everyone fit and ready for next week;

Ulster team & replacements to play Glasgow Warriors, Guinness PRO12, Scotstoun, Saturday 16th May (15:00 kick off):

(15-9): L Ludik; R Scholes, S Arnold, S McCloskey, M Allen, I Humphreys, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring, R Lutton, L Stevenson, F van der Merwe, C Ross, C Henry (C), R Diack;

Replacements (16-23): R Best, K McCall, B Ross, I Henderson, R Wilson, R Pienaar, P Jackson, T Bowe.

Can still see us winning with that team, but it's a very long shot indeed. Am concerned about the consequences of losing this game tbh. Assuming Munster get the BP against Dragons and Ospreys win with no bonus point in Connacht, 4th is away to Munster 3rd is away to the Ospreys. Winning this game could be the difference between being away against Munster and away against the Ospreys, it's going to be much easier to go to Swansea and win than Limerick imo.

If we don't get these walking wounded back for the semis, hope will be in very short supply.

Not available due to injury:

Callum Black – hamstring
Wiehahn Herbst – toe
Darren Cave – shoulder
Jared Payne – ankle
Dan Tuohy – hip
Peter Nelson – hamstring
Craig Gilroy – hamstring

WOW, thats brave. Very brave. Not a chance of winning, but all the same I'm actually quite glad to see some of these players have a chance to catch the coaches eye before next season.

So much for my guess..

Great to see Scholes included. Scholes and Allen will be decent enough. Can't say the same for Humphs and Marshall!

The return of Lutton! About time too.

That's a fairly strong bench and might just be the difference in an Ulster win. Here's hoping anyway.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFCq3KSXIAAibBy.jpg

Big Al is starting
15. Hogg
14. Seymour
13. Vernon
12. Hornee Furra Linee
11. Return of the Schlong
10. Dancer
9. Mad Mata
8. Ashe
7.Fozzie
6. Bluto
5. The Captain
4. The Captain in Waiting
3. Grant
2. Dougie Hall Dougie feccin Hall
1. de Klerk

replacements;
Shrek-WeePee- the Coo
Big Naka
Batman
Henners Piecrust
Meatball
Murchie

Great to see Shrek and the Coo back in contention.
Naka and Batman to bring some dynamism in th elast 25. (A dynamic duo, Batman?)
5 - 3 split on the bench: Toonie means business.

Big Al.. cometh the hour, cometh the man.

Of course we did this last season and beat Munster with the reserves, and then our rested first team should have well and truly buried Leinster away in the semi but for wasteful finishing and a defensive lapse.

Can't see Glasgow slipping in their focus the way Munster did, they desperately need to go all out for a bonus point win here.

This is ok then? Nobody slightly disappointed that this devalues the final day's fixtures?

Sky sports ok with this?

What's devalued Chunky?

Or should I say, how is anything devalued here?

I'm very happy with that team. Saving the best to smash the Ospreys

Munchkin wrote:I'm very happy with that team. Saving the best to smash the Ospreys

Unfortunately this may mean we get the harder draw and a trip to Limerick... I suppose there's a chance Munster will miss out on the BP, or Ospreys will get it? Who finishes top if both Munster and Ospreys (or Munster, Ospreys and Glasgow for that matter) all get the BP?

Chunky Norwich wrote:This is ok then? Nobody slightly disappointed that this devalues the final day's fixtures?

Sky sports ok with this?

I think that you'll need to explain this one, based on your detailed knowledge of both sides.

George Carlin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:This is ok then? Nobody slightly disappointed that this devalues the final day's fixtures?

Sky sports ok with this?

I think that you'll need to explain this one, based on your detailed knowledge of both sides.

Ulster have named a reserve side. For the last game of the season. Against a top 2 side. Being shown live by the league's biggest sponsors.

That's fine. If everybody's happy with this. Makes no odds to me. Just curious.

Well I daresay we'll be kicking ourselves if either Dragons or Connacht cause an upset and we lose, but barring that... this gives us the best possible chance of being at full fitness for the semis. I think it's risky, I think it could cost us the title if we have to go to Thomond.

Six forced changes and six unforced changes for Ulster, although I imagine that a few of those on the injury lists would be playing if it was a semi-final. Add in Pienaar and Wilson who are selected on the bench but with doubts over whether they are at 100%, and I think there are four key players rotated out just for the sake of rotation. Best, Henderson, Jackson and Bowe. Everyone else has some kind of fitness doubt, whether they could theoretically play through it or not.

My biggest concern is that Herbst is fit for the semi. He's essential, and I hope that the late parachuting in of Lutton doesn't mean he's unlikely to return for next weekend.

Notch wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I'm very happy with that team. Saving the best to smash the Ospreys

Unfortunately this may mean we get the harder draw and a trip to Limerick... I suppose there's a chance Munster will miss out on the BP, or Ospreys will get it? Who finishes top if both Munster and Ospreys (or Munster, Ospreys and Glasgow for that matter) all get the BP?

It might, Notch. It's more a hope of mine, than a solid belief. I wouldn't be downhearted at the prospect of taking on Munster away though. I think with as strong a team as possible, and with a few key players rested, we would have a real chance of getting a win.

Munchkin wrote:

Notch wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I'm very happy with that team. Saving the best to smash the Ospreys

Unfortunately this may mean we get the harder draw and a trip to Limerick... I suppose there's a chance Munster will miss out on the BP, or Ospreys will get it? Who finishes top if both Munster and Ospreys (or Munster, Ospreys and Glasgow for that matter) all get the BP?

It might, Notch. It's more a hope of mine, than a solid belief. I wouldn't be downhearted at the prospect of taking on Munster away though. I think with as strong a team as possible, and with a few key players rested, we would have a real chance of getting a win.

Yeah definitely not much between the sides, but we'd pretty desperately need Herbst back fit for 80 minutes. You saw what they did to our scrum when he went off and Botha came on.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:This is ok then? Nobody slightly disappointed that this devalues the final day's fixtures?

Sky sports ok with this?

I think that you'll need to explain this one, based on your detailed knowledge of both sides.

Ulster have named a reserve side. For the last game of the season. Against a top 2 side. Being shown live by the league's biggest sponsors.

That's fine. If everybody's happy with this. Makes no odds to me. Just curious.

It's not the last game of the season for either side.  
Nothing gets won on Saturday only a game.  
The 'Game' goes on after Saturday.  
I wonder who gets to televise the Grand Final?

S4C?

Thought so.

It changes the calculus of the final day if we concede we aren't going to beat Glasgow (not impossible we will win if we're in touch on 50/60 minutes- thats a hell of a bench to throw on).

We'd want Ospreys to get the BP and top the table if we lose and finish fourth. But if we do win, we'd want Munster to finish top as they would play 4th place Glasgow leaving us with the chance to go to Swansea. Permutations, permutations.

Now that Munster have the O'Connell, O'Mahony and Murray all bedded in and theoretically the easiest fixture on the last day, they have to be favourites. Home or away, avoiding Munster until the Final is the best result for the other three sides.

Feck it, we'll just give it a lash tomorrow and know we have a big performance in us wherever we have to play our semi-final.

Notch wrote:Who finishes top if both Munster and Ospreys (or Munster, Ospreys and Glasgow for that matter) all get the BP?

That's an easy one.

Table is as it stands.

Ospreys ahead of Glasgow on points difference. Ospreys and Glasgow ahead of Munster on wins.

They all get a winning BP that's the way it finishes.

Personally I hope all the Irish teams win. (obviously) Then it is down to BPs between Connacht and Scarlets for 6th place. Presuming Treviso can do us a solid

In the real world. You would expect 2 x Welsh away wins

There's nothing solid about Treviso at the moment.

I would love Connacht to get into Europe, I almost hope they miss out on the playoffs though otherwise the Barbarians fixture will be rather... Leinster-esque.

Herbst is a real worry, Notch. We can only hope that he recovers in time. Fingers crossed. I don't even really want to think about what might happen if he's not available for the semi.

Munchkin wrote:Herbst is a real worry, Notch. We can only hope that he recovers in time. Fingers crossed. I don't even really want to think about what might happen if he's not available for the semi.

Ricky Lutton will save the day?

Notch wrote:There's nothing solid about Treviso at the moment.

I would love Connacht to get into Europe, I almost hope they miss out on the playoffs though otherwise the Barbarians fixture will be rather... Leinster-esque.

The only other way of that happening (bar the unlikely event of Connacht coming 6th) is for Embra to beat Leinster.

Don't worry Leinster have been used to making up the bulk of the Irish team. We can handle it.

Notch wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Herbst is a real worry, Notch. We can only hope that he recovers in time. Fingers crossed. I don't even really want to think about what might happen if he's not available for the semi.

Ricky Lutton will save the day?

Heh, we can only hope. Lutton has fallen out of favour with the powers that be this season. Not enough game time. It's a pity because I thought he was doing really well. Who knows though...he might just save the day

Part of me thinks it would be somewhat funny to see Matt O'Connor guide Leinster to an embarrassing defeat against Edinburgh, only for the exact same group of players minus Te'o and Gopperth to put on a dominant and polished display against the Barbarians for Schmidt. A cruel part!

There's no point being defensive and pretending Chunky doesn't have a point.

He is correct in that Sky Sports have picked the fictures based on what they believe will be highest quality. And Ulster are saying 'No, it won't be the best quality we are capable of'.

BUT...

- 7 of the 12 changes were forced by injury.
- Competitions are won with tactics such as this - EVERY team would do it if they had the opportunity to do better in the followinggames that REALLY counted towards a trophy.
- All true Ulster fans are aware of their entire squad and will not be put off tuning in. In fact, (as seen on here already) most are quite looking forward to seeing some prospects get a chance.
- This is NOT a bad Ulster team - just quite different from the best Ulster team.

I'm sure Sky Sports can take it on the chin - they know how things work. You win some you lose some.

I don't pretend it would be great for TV to be able to put out the strongest team every week, but at the end of the season when loads of guys are carrying knocks... everyone wants to win the playoffs, you make the decisions that help you do it. Doesn't matter what league you're in.

Toulon are doing something similar in France away to Clermont this weekend. Any advantage will be grasped at. It's not without risks for Ulster either.

clivemcl wrote:There's no point being defensive and pretending Chunky doesn't have a point.

He is correct in that Sky Sports have picked the fictures based on what they believe will be highest quality. And Ulster are saying 'No, it won't be the best quality we are capable of'.

BUT...

- 7 of the 12 changes were forced by injury.
- Competitions are won with tactics such as this - EVERY team would do it if they had the opportunity to do better in the followinggames that REALLY counted towards a trophy.
- All true Ulster fans are aware of their entire squad and will not be put off tuning in. In fact, (as seen on here already) most are quite looking forward to seeing some prospects get a chance.
- This is NOT a bad Ulster team - just quite different from the best Ulster team.

I'm sure Sky Sports can take it on the chin - they know how things work. You win some you lose some.

Those picked also have something to play for, Lutton wants to either stay at Ulster or put himself in the shop window, there are places up for grab plus someone like Arnold wants to show he can play against the top teams in big games going into next season when front line players will be missing

Nobody is being defensive, Clive. It's just accepting the present reality that we don't have the luxury of putting out our strongest team. With a view to progressing to a final. A mixture of injured players, players who badly need rested, means this selection was on the money. For me anyway.
I'm still really looking forward to the game, and even though Glasgow will be hot favourites, I think we have a chance of stealing a win. As Notch says, if we can remain within touching distance of a win in the first 50 minutes, we have a powerful enough bench to come on and cause an upset.

(15-9): L Ludik; R Scholes, S Arnold, S McCloskey, M Allen, I Humphreys, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring, R Lutton, L Stevenson, F van der Merwe, C Ross, C Henry (C), R Diack;

Replacements (16-23): R Best, K McCall, B Ross, I Henderson, R Wilson, R Pienaar, P Jackson, T Bowe.


Really pleased with that team. It shows the coaches understand what will give them the greatest chance of progress. I actually think it is the best team that Ulster could put together given injuries and fatigue apart from Best, Bowe and Jackson. Not much will be lost with Herring and Scholes who are very capable replacements. It is Humphreys who is the proverbial box of chocolates where the risk comes in. I'd still rather play him in this game and have Paddy start the next one than risk Paddy in this one and have Ian start the next one.

Who knows what will happen in the other games? However the Ulster team selection has heaped pressure on Glasgow who will be expected to win so Munster will believe they definitely need a TBP win. That means Glasgow will know they need a TBP win to get ahead of them and the Ospreys will also know that they need a TBP in case both Glasgow and Munster get TBP wins. That's good for Ulster! When teams are going for TBP wins they are more vulnerable and if Glasgow are going for a TBP it gives a mercurial player like Humphreys every chance to shine in an open game. It also gives Connacht a chance of countering an attacking Os, which is likely to be their best chance of scoring.

The selection is a master stroke and at the very least Ulster should have some say in who they want to face in the semi if the game is still tight in the last quarter!

Just to write that Glasgow side in plain English:

15. Stuart Hogg
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Richie Vernon
12. Peter Horne
11. Sean Lamont
10. Finn Russell
9. Niko Matawalu
 
1. Ryan Grant   
2. Dougie Hall
3. Rossouw de Klerk
4. Jonny Gray
5. Al Kellock (Captain)
6. Josh Strauss
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Adam Ashe
 
Replacements
 
16. Pat MacArthur
17. Gordon Reid
18. Mike Cusack
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Henry Pyrgos
22. Duncan Weir
23. Peter Murchie

A more balanced side really - seeing the Coo and de Klerk back is a very welcome surprise and at the very least that starting front row is a very strong scrummaging unit whose members are very familiar with each other.

Having Strauss, Ashe and Fozzy is a brutal set of loose forwards on the pitch. Plenty of carriers in that pack. And one ruck inspector, obviously.

I don't follow Ulster closely enough to know whether this visiting side has a chance or not, but you'd have to say that if this Glasgow side can't put the team opposite them away - then Ulster really deserves a berth in the final and, well, we really don't.

Go away out of that - you've just thrown the towel in. That is something like 9 or 10 changes from last week.

Where the hell is Big Bad Boab though ?

jimbopip wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFCq3KSXIAAibBy.jpg

Big Al is starting
15. Hogg
14. Seymour
13. Vernon
12. Hornee Furra Linee
11. Return of the Schlong
10. Dancer
9. Mad Mata
8. Ashe
7.Fozzie
6. Bluto
5. The Captain
4. The Captain in Waiting
3. Grant
2. Dougie Hall Dougie feccin Hall
1. de Klerk

replacements;
Shrek-WeePee- the Coo
Big Naka
Batman
Henners Piecrust
Meatball
Murchie

Great to see Shrek and the Coo back in contention.
Naka and Batman to bring some dynamism in th elast 25. (A dynamic duo, Batman?)
5 - 3 split on the bench: Toonie means business.

Big Al.. cometh the hour, cometh the man.

It's a sentimental selection, but I'm pleased that Matawalu is at 9 where he can inflict the most carnage (of both teams). Big Al over Naka is just wrong, although Naka had a particularly poor match against the Ospreys, trying far too much in wet conditions. At least with Kellock there's no danger of an offload.

I can understand Ulster's logic here. If it's unlikely you'll get a home semi, just accept it and rest your best players to try and get a marginal advantage on perhaps Munster in the semi. It also helps knowing that whatever happens you have a home final.