Leicester Tigers vs Northampton Saints, 16th May

First topic message reminder :

 

Saturday 16th May
KO: 15:30
TV: BT sports 1


Officials:
Referee: Matthew Carley (31st Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Tim Wigglesworth and Peter Huckle.
TMO: Rowan Kitt.



Teams:

Leicester: TBC



Northampton: TBC



Recent History

31/1/15 Leicester 17 – Northampton 8  LV
In front of a capacity crowd a variety of second, third and even 4th choice players showed their senior counterparts how to behave. Straightforward win for Tigers.

20/12/14 Northampton 21 – Leicester 19  AP
Late Jamie Elliot try gives 14 man Saints a deserved win. Thre tries apiece Saints had to play for 3/4s game one man down after red card for skipper Hartley. Tom Croft received Yellow at the end of the first half.

16/5/14 Northampton 21 – Leicester 20 AP Semi
Tom Wood’s try with one minute to go gave Saints the lead for the first time in the game. An enthralling game that saw Ma’afu for Saints seeing red, and Tom Youngs yellow, following a clash. YCs also issued to Bowden and Goneva.

29/3/14 Northampton 16 – Leicester 22 AP
Ben Youngs and Niki Goneva both saw yellow as Tigers hung on grimly to take their unbeaten run to 10 against their neighbours. Huge controversy at the end of the game. Had Manu thrown the ball away? Was time up? Had a Leicester physio deliberately prevented a quick throw? Needless to say Mallinder was not happy.

5/10/13 Leicester 19 – Northampton 19 AP
Dylan Hartley made his first appearance for Saints following suspension. Burrell was sinbinned for a high, no-arms tackle on Allen, but for 70 minutes Saints were the better team. Trailing by 10 points with 10 minutes to go, tigers burst into life and were camped on the Saints line. Deacon and Lawes carded following a confrontation just before Ed Slater crashed over with 4 minutes to go. Saints just held one, repelling a series of 5m scrums.

25/5/13 Leicester 37 – Northampton 17 AP Final
Well this game had drama. Tigers scoring a try inside a couple of minutes. Flood removed with concussion following two challenges from Lawes that pushed the boundaries of legality to the limits. Cockers losing his rag. Hartley repeatedly warned by ref for how he was talking to him  It was all bubbling up until right at the end of the first half. Myler did not know the laws and was unable to understand Barnes accent. Hartley called someone a “f***ing cheat” and was issued red. Game over, Lions chance gone.

30/3/13 Northampton 8 – Leicester 36 AP
Little real dram in this game. A quiet first half was followed by a demolition as tigers ran in four second half tries.

3/11/12 Leicester 16 – Northampton 12 AP
With both sides missing plenty of players on England duty we had a quiet game.

14/4/12 Northampton 21 – Leicester 35 AP
25 points from Toby Flood helped Leicester, who earlier in the season had occupied bottom spot in the table, secure their 5th TBP win in a row and move to second in the table.

16/3/12 Leicester 26 – Northampton 14 LV final
The day Rob Hawkins elbow met Calum Clark.

3/12/11 Leicester 30 – Northampton 25 AP
The day Ashton dragged Alessana Tuilagi from the pitch by his hair and sparked a mass brawl. Tuilagi and Wood given red, Ashton later cited and banned for 6 weeks.

14/5/11 Leicester 11 – Northampton 3 AP Semi
The day Ashton survived a barrage of punches from Manu. (ps all started by a rabbit punch from Ashton)

doctor_grey wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Welsh beating Saracens? I would prefer that overall but less likely I think.

I wonder if the betting companies even have odds on that one.  Would be about one million to one, eh?  I was just raising the possibility to see if anyone would claim Saracens were underdogs.......

just checked. odds listed at 199/1.

If Tigers, Exeter and Sarries all win then don't Sarries miss out? Hence McCall questioning Sale's commitment and hoping for a reaction.

formerly known as Sam wrote:If Tigers, Exeter and Sarries all win then don't Sarries miss out? Hence McCall questioning Sale's commitment and hoping for a reaction.

Sarries and Exeter have the same number of wins. Next separator is Points Difference:

In the case of equality at any stage of the Season, positions at that stage of the season shall be determined firstly by the number of wins achieved and then on the basis of match points differential. A Club with a larger number of wins shall be placed higher than a Club with the same number of league points but fewer wins.
If Clubs have equal league points and equal number of wins then a Club with a larger difference between match points "for" and match points "against" shall be placed higher in the Premiership League than a Club with a smaller difference between match points "for" and match points "against".
Should two Clubs have the same number of league points and the same match points difference, the Club having scored more match points "for" shall be placed higher in the Premiership League than the Club having the lesser number of match points "for".
If the above does not establish different Premiership League positions then the Club in the higher position shall be the Club that has achieved the higher aggregate match points scored by it in the same season against the other Club.
If this still does not establish the position then the Club who has won the most matches, excluding its first Premiership League match of the season, then its second Premiership League match and so on, until it can be established which the higher placed Club is.

Read more at http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/tables/index.php#jIBzI0SE9ywtcboz.99

But don't Exeter crucially have an extra point? They only have to match the Sarries result, likely 5 point win.

No

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/tables/index.php#xwoK4dhJUlzcrlQk.97

Tigers team posted on offy forum from someone who is usually correct
Leicester Tigers (v Northampton Saints, Welford Road, Saturday 3.30pm)
15 Niall Morris
14 Vereniki Goneva
13 Mathew Tait
12 Christian Loamanu
11 Adam Thompstone
10 Freddie Burns
9 Ben Youngs (c)
1 Logovi'i Mulipola
2 Tom Youngs
3 Dan Cole
4 Brad Thorn
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Ed Slater
7 Julian Salvi
8 Jordan Crane

Replacements
16 Harry Thacker
17 Marcos Ayerza
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Sebastian De Chaves
20 Jamie Gibson
21 Sam Harrison
22 Tommy Bell
23 Jack Roberts

Saints are putting out very much a second string side:


Tuala; Elliott, Waldouck, Stephenson, Collins; Wilson, Dickson; Corbisiero, Haywood (capt), Ma'afu, Dickinson, Craig, Dowson (capt), Harrison, Fisher.

Replacements:

Hartley, Waller, Denman, Day, Nutley, Fotuali'i, Oliver, Packman.

If that team can get close to Tigers it will be a big boost for Saints, but I suspect they won't. Tigers have pretty much a full 1st choice team out baring injured players, Dickson; Corbisiero, and Ma'afu are the only Saints players that really contest a 1st team place. The rest are bench players or academy.

I can't believe I see Saints receiving some criticism for resting players before the playoffs. I wonder if these naive people believe Saints should play a group of players who see no reason to be out there and have nothing to gain? That is a recipe to get players hurt. And just for appearances sake. I wonder if these people ever watch competitive professional sport in the modern world. Every team would love to be in Saints shoes (boots) and would do exactly the same thing.

On the other hand, I think Mallinder should have given more of these players a run during the season. Especially, Tom Collins, Teimana Harrison and James Craig. Tom Stephenson has already had some quality game time. These guys are the future of the club.

Can't see the problem to be honest - the aim is to win the premiership playoffs and this is a pragmatic approach.

Meh, they still have a chance of winning. Our form has been very up and down this season.... Well mainly down

It'll be high intensity (Tigers need a win) game that actually means nothing for Saints. Perfect opportunity to give so good game time to the fringe.

doctor_grey wrote:I can't believe I see Saints receiving some criticism for resting players before the playoffs.  I wonder if these naive people believe Saints should play a group of players who see no reason to be out there and have nothing to gain?  That is a recipe to get players hurt.

Toulon and Ulster taking a similar approach this weekend. But different for Ulster, while Saints have a home semi wrapped up we're in the playoffs but unlikely to get a home draw unless there is a big upset elsewhere. Calm before the storm.

HammerofThunor wrote:It'll be high intensity (Tigers need a win) game that actually means nothing for Saints. Perfect opportunity to give so good game time to the fringe.

Agree, will be a great experience for them

No lose situation for Saints. If the lose then it's expected given the team that they have selected and it'll be a good experience for the younger guys. If they pull off a shock result then Mallinder has a great selection headache and there's big squad competition going into the playoffs.

nathan wrote:Meh, they still have a chance of winning. Our form has been very up and down this season.... Well mainly down

I am amazed that people can believe Cockerill's job is in jeopardy after surviving a season with so many injuries. Not just surviving, but with a record (as of today) of 14 wins, 6 losses and a draw. I think he has done a terrific job.

If you were a neutral, which match do you think would be the best to watch this weekend?

Tigers v Saints is usually a cracker but I'm going with Exeter v Sale. Realistically Exeter need to win with a bigger margin than Saracens.

The results for Leicester have overall been great. Team performances have been shocking. Particularly the away games at Bath and Ulster. They were humiliating.

Cockers job is safe. Improvements are required next season. Though I agree that the injuries incurred this season have left him with an arm tied behind his back. Certainly the loss of his head coach early doors and a defence coach who is undoubtedly excellent but is home sick hasn't helped either.

Rugby Fan wrote:If you were a neutral, which match do you think would be the best to watch this weekend?

That's a hard one. Probably the most interesting would still be Leicester-Northampton. At least until we see whether Leicester will roll or not.
Watching Saracens-London Welsh will be like watching an 80 minute car crash. Only question is how bad the crash will be.
Watching Exeter-Sale will be a case where Exe try to create a car crash as bad as Saracens will.

doctor_grey wrote:

nathan wrote:Meh, they still have a chance of winning. Our form has been very up and down this season.... Well mainly down

I am amazed that people can believe Cockerill's job is in jeopardy after surviving a season with so many injuries.  Not just surviving, but with a record (as of today) of 14 wins, 6 losses and a draw.  I think he has done a terrific job.    

I certainly don't think he should lose his job, I think the coaching setup needs some new blood which they are getting

Come on tigers!

Hmmm, looked like corbs was hinging

That from Dickson is just as cynical if not more so than Thorn rolling away slowly. Stuff like that is a blight on the game and shouldn't be rewarded.

Bit harsh, seen those allowed plenty of times. Tigers need to react now

Great play from haywood

Wish he would allow a little longer before blowing for holding on, we'll have loads of penalties

This ref isn't very good, don't think saints closed the gap there

Would not like to be a tigers player in that changing room at half time

Well where's the intensity from last week gone? This is lacklustre.

Gibson for Thorn move Slater to second row. We need the mobility up front. Someone might want to remind Salvi he's still a Tigers player. He's having a stinker and isn't putting his body in the hard places like he was last weekend.

Why are we not getting advantage for saints players laying on our side of the ruck

Agh

Saints players aren't rolling away.

So Saints management tell a blatant lie and say they have no available tighthead. Corbisiero has played there and in the prem.

Two men up and we're throwing it around like it's sevens.

Second half and the race is on between Sarries and Exe. Who will win??????

Leicester should be dusting this Saints team. We have kids out there who were in nappies a few years ago......

Be glad you just need the win. Both Saracens and Exeter racking up a lot of points.

doctor_grey wrote:Second half and the race is on between Sarries and Exe.  Who will win??????

Leicester should be dusting this Saints team.  We have kids out there who were in nappies a few years ago......  

Isn't that the case with most 20 year olds in Northampton anyway

HammerofThunor wrote:Be glad you just need the win. Both Saracens and Exeter racking up a lot of points.

Even better, I don't need anything. Saints are in. In fact, I got back in from playing my last match of the season today, popped a Boddington's (imported here to the Colonies from Her Majesty's Blessed Land) and are just taking it all in. This is a new experience, end of the season and no stress. Which is fine because next weekend it starts again.

Hands on the floor clearly

Saracens close to the 70 points predicted.

Tom Stephenson - the answer for England in the centres (next RWC).

He's got a lot of talent but he hasn't showed too much of that today Doc. Took his try very well though.

Breath a sigh of relief. We're going to have to be so much better next weekend just to be in touring distance of Bath next week.

Well, we're in by the skin of our teeth, no help from the ref though, bit inconsistent at the ruck

32 on PD is woeful lol

Can't see us beating bath to be honest

Only if Bath get the nerves I guess.

But 3rd who would have put money on that 6 months ago.

In other good news Leicester City have completed the great escape from relegation

This was the only game on the last day where there were less than 50 points. and there were 3 games with 80+ points scored. Crazy

Looking at the table it really does show that a lack of try scoring ability doesnt really matter that much when it comes down to it. Obviously the very best teams will be able to score at will and negate the opposition but Newcatle for example have managed to score more this season than Tigers and finish 8 positions lower, only avoiding relgation fight because of hw abysmal Welsh were. The top 4 defences all made the playoffs, the firts and third highest scoring teams didnt.
Tigers ability to win the tight games, and turn almost every game into a contest shouldnt be underestimated for the playoffs even if they have looked like poo at times. I had them pretty much written off fr the playoffs, its not quite as crazy as the year they pipped Harlequins in the last minute but they have done very well to grind out the games that matter (caveats about Saints second team aside). They cat be that bad.

The problems going to be if they leak a couple of tries early. If Bath go at them from the off and they fail to turn it into an arm wrestle they wont have an answer like they mightve done a couple of years ago.

Would a playoff semi be enough to save Cockerills job? With the mood at the club and the number of people coming and going in the backroom I doubt it. Hes never been massively popular with certain influential people and by his own admission hes not been handling the stress of the job very well at times. The consistent failure to progress in Europe is the real thing that stands out. With the team on a slight down this year its an easy opportunity to make a big change.

Gooseberry wrote:Looking at the table it really does show that a lack of try scoring ability doesnt really matter that much when it comes down to it. Obviously the very best teams will be able to score at will and negate the opposition but Newcatle for example have managed to score more this season than Tigers and finish 8 positions lower, only avoiding  relgation fight because of hw abysmal Welsh were.  The top 4 defences all made the playoffs, the firts and third highest scoring teams didnt.
Tigers ability to win the tight games, and turn almost every game into a contest shouldnt be underestimated for the playoffs even if they have looked like poo at times. I had them pretty much written off fr the playoffs, its not quite as crazy as the year they pipped Harlequins in the last minute but they have done very well to grind out the games that matter (caveats about Saints second team aside). They cat be that bad.

The problems going to be if they leak a couple of tries early. If Bath go at them from the off and they fail to turn it into an arm wrestle they wont have an answer like they mightve done a couple of years ago.

Would a playoff semi be enough to save Cockerills job? With the mood at the club and the number of people coming and going in the backroom I doubt it. Hes never been massively popular with certain influential people and by his own admission hes not been handling the stress of the job very well at times. The consistent failure to progress in Europe is the real thing that stands out. With the team on a slight down this year its an easy opportunity to make a big change.

He won't be head coach next year, he'll be doing more of the background work.

Gooseberry wrote:

Would a playoff semi be enough to save Cockerills job?

His job is safe. Tbh had they missed out today his job would've still been safe. All IMO, of course.

The changes you mention are already happening, but as I've always heard it Richard's future was never really in doubt. Fast forward a year and if the big changes off the pitch haven't resulted in big changes on the pitch and we might well be having a different discussion though.

As for the game is was a bit of a dud. Always looked like Tigers were going through the motions which could easily have bitten them in the arse. Expect the intensity against Bath to be much closer to the Wasp game than today's game. Unfotunately for them Bath can handle it (and respond with more), and I think will go on to win at Twickenham.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Would a playoff semi be enough to save Cockerills job?

His job is safe. Tbh had they missed out today his job would've still been safe. All IMO, of course.

The changes you mention are already happening, but as I've always heard it Richard's future was never really in doubt. Fast forward a year and if the big changes off the pitch haven't resulted in big changes on the pitch and we might well be having a different discussion though.

As for the game is was a bit of a dud. Always looked like Tigers were going through the motions which could easily have bitten them in the arse. Expect the intensity against Bath to be much closer to the Wasp game than today's game. Unfotunately for Tigs Bath can handle it, and I think will go on to win at Twickenham.

Big question is how tough mentally is Bath. To me, the results in previous matches between bath and Leicester will mean nothing. Leicester have that winning mentality which turns matches into real arm-wrestles. If Leicester stay close, can Bath close it out?
Bath will go in a favourites, but one never knows.

Saints and Saracens should be a good fight as well. Hoping the week off for many Saints players can give an edge.

I can see Tigers beating Bath, Bath have the players but not the team or mentality to win play offs if the going gets tough.

Tigers will want to drag them into a wrestling match and then should win it.