Why oh why Tuilagi!....... BREAKING NEWS!

by Bazzer79 Fri May 15, 2015 4:20 pm

Well that makes the midfield pairing debate easier...............................

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/12891571/manu-tuilagi-world-cup-assault-charge

picard

by Bathman_in_London Fri May 15, 2015 4:25 pm

Joseph better be wrapped in cotton wool over the summer then!

by munkian Fri May 15, 2015 4:26 pm

12 Trees nailed in then.

Rumors abound that it was a female police officer too

by Bazzer79 Fri May 15, 2015 4:26 pm

The plot thickens...................

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11608554/Manu-Tuilagi-to-miss-World-Cup-after-assaulting-police-officer.html

by Rory_Gallagher Fri May 15, 2015 4:28 pm

What a plonker. Of course we do not know the facts or what really happened, but he had to know that assaulting a police officer was going to all but ruin his career. Good decision by Lancaster.

by munkian Fri May 15, 2015 4:30 pm

Bazzer79 wrote:The plot thickens...................

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11608554/Manu-Tuilagi-to-miss-World-Cup-after-assaulting-police-officer.html

Some of the people defending him are scary....

by Bazzer79 Fri May 15, 2015 4:30 pm

Rory, agree re Lancaster's decision, but to be fair he had absolutely no choice. There would be a public outcry especially with the eyes of the world on us with the home RWC.

Might work in Slades favour????

by Breadvan Fri May 15, 2015 4:31 pm

Daft bugger. Seems he's one of these blokes thats really nice and approachable until they've had a few beers.

by Knowsit17 Fri May 15, 2015 4:34 pm

Has he been issued a formal ban for off the field conduct? If not, bold move by Lancaster to rule him out from principle. I recall the embarrassing photo of Mike Phillips being held down in handcuffs in the build-up to the last WC and he was still permitted to play (albeit Phillips didn't assault or injure the officers themselves).

In any case, would England supporters consider this a big blow or a blessing in disguise? (Given the midfield experiments is Tuilagi still considered a frontrunner?)

by Knowsit17 Fri May 15, 2015 4:40 pm

Ignore the last post. Just realised the charges against him are ongoing. Correct decision without a doubt by Lancaster, it would be scandalous to pick him under the circumstances.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri May 15, 2015 4:40 pm

munkian wrote:
Bazzer79 wrote:The plot thickens...................

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11608554/Manu-Tuilagi-to-miss-World-Cup-after-assaulting-police-officer.html

Some of the people defending him are scary....

They aren't scary, they're just not the most intelligent of people.

"So he lost his temper, and committed a minor offence."

Assaulting a police officer is a minor offence apparently.. lol.

by munkian Fri May 15, 2015 4:43 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
munkian wrote:
Bazzer79 wrote:The plot thickens...................

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11608554/Manu-Tuilagi-to-miss-World-Cup-after-assaulting-police-officer.html

Some of the people defending him are scary....

They aren't scary, they're just not the most intelligent of people.

"So he lost his temper, and committed a minor offence."

Assaulting a police officer is a minor offence apparently.. lol.

I find unintelligent people's views frightening.

by SecretFly Fri May 15, 2015 4:54 pm

Me? Frightening?!

by munkian Fri May 15, 2015 4:55 pm

SecretFly wrote:Me? Frightening?!

by bluestonevedder Fri May 15, 2015 4:56 pm

What a first class, grade A boobie.

If it was a female officer, his actions are even more deplorable.

by nathan Fri May 15, 2015 4:59 pm

Doesn't matter if the officer was male or female, he was a class a numpty for doing it. He's a good lad so can only presume it was alcohol related, if that is the case I hope he keeps off the stuff.

by Mad for Chelsea Fri May 15, 2015 5:03 pm

well that was silly. Big blow for England, now really need Joseph to stay fit. Sensible from Lancaster, but really the only decision he could make, surely...

by lostinwales Fri May 15, 2015 5:05 pm

To be fair 'Assault' can cover a very wide range of actions from a push on up. He's pleaded guilty and they have fined him so its probably at the lower end.

RWC done and dusted and selection issues slightly less complicated. Lets hope its a wake up call and he gets his act together physically and mentally for the next 6N.

by SecretFly Fri May 15, 2015 5:08 pm

so that's two people that Lancaster either has to drop or feels compelled not to choose because of court proceedings for assault?

by thomh Fri May 15, 2015 5:14 pm

The other one being... Armitage? He doesn't want to pick Armitage anyway. That debate has caused him unnecessary hassle for years.

by gregortree Fri May 15, 2015 5:15 pm

There used to be a user named Manu's Boxing Coach on here. Surely he bears some of the responsibility ?

by Hood83 Fri May 15, 2015 5:15 pm

He's an idiot. Big shame but frankly I think JJ is far more rounded a player and I'd far rather we built a game-plan to accommodate him than a Tuilagi bosh approach.

I think there are some better teams like Ireland, who aren't that big, that he could have been a great asset against. But the rest I'm not convinced. SA handled him. The ABs did last time. Oz, have no problem handling bigger backs. France would stick Bastareud on him etc.

by beshocked Fri May 15, 2015 5:22 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:Has he been issued a formal ban for off the field conduct? If not, bold move by Lancaster to rule him out from principle. I recall the embarrassing photo of Mike Phillips being held down in handcuffs in the build-up to the last WC and he was still permitted to play (albeit Phillips didn't assault or injure the officers themselves).

In any case, would England supporters consider this a big blow or a blessing in disguise? (Given the midfield experiments is Tuilagi still considered a frontrunner?)

Big blow? No. Blessing in disguise? No.

It's not really that surprising. Manu is a young man -he's not the only young man with anger management issues either.

The signs were there - Tuilagi doesn't exactly have a clean record.

by Barney McGrew did it Fri May 15, 2015 5:23 pm

All a bit sad, but he'd have been a liability for this RWC anyway.

by funnyExiledScot Fri May 15, 2015 5:25 pm

Breadvan wrote:Daft bugger. Seems he's one of these blokes thats really nice and approachable until they've had a few beers.

Nothing wrong with those sorts of people..... Whistle

by lostinwales Fri May 15, 2015 5:26 pm

Hood83 wrote:He's an idiot. Big shame but frankly I think JJ is far more rounded a player and I'd far rather we built a game-plan to accommodate him than a Tuilagi bosh approach.

I think there are some better teams like Ireland, who aren't that big, that he could have been a great asset against. But the rest I'm not convinced. SA handled him. The ABs did last time. Oz, have no problem handling bigger backs. France would stick Bastareud on him etc.

Its all academic because he hasnt been performing for us for a while now. But those arguments don't always hold and he can do a lot of damage against the best defenses. For a lot of his career he has been the main threat for England and has scored a lot of tries (averages one every other game I believe). With the new model England the opposition has to think about dealing with a whole lot more threats which might give him more space. As for Basteraud the last time they played Eng vs Fra Manu made him look like a slow fat prop.

by beshocked Fri May 15, 2015 5:36 pm

lostinwales to be honest under Lancaster 13 has been a key try scoring threat with Burrell and Joseph excelling there.

Tuilagi has not been missed in the last two 6 nations IMO. Joseph won England player award.

Burrell ironically has been more effective as a 13 than the position he has played most of his rugby at (12).

Also Tuilagi's defensive positioning against NZ was very poor in the recent trip to NZ.

Even Barritt has deputised adequately at 13 - notable wins vs Scotland, Ireland away and Australia.

The funny thing is that these 3 players can play 13: Joseph,Burrell,Barritt to an international standard.

Would have been nice to have Tuilagi to give England an extra option but I wouldn't say he is as vital as Robshaw and Brown for example.

I would say Robshaw is perhaps the only player it will be very difficult to replace.

by Guest Fri May 15, 2015 5:43 pm

Daniel Sandford(BBC) wrote:

Manu Tuilagi grabbed a taxi driver by the throat, kicked his wing mirror, and then pushed two female police officers hard in the chest.

by Hood83 Fri May 15, 2015 5:44 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Hood83 wrote:He's an idiot. Big shame but frankly I think JJ is far more rounded a player and I'd far rather we built a game-plan to accommodate him than a Tuilagi bosh approach.

I think there are some better teams like Ireland, who aren't that big, that he could have been a great asset against. But the rest I'm not convinced. SA handled him. The ABs did last time. Oz, have no problem handling bigger backs. France would stick Bastareud on him etc.

Its all academic because he hasnt been performing for us for a while now. But those arguments don't always hold and he can do a lot of damage against the best defenses. For a lot of his career he has been the main threat for England and has scored a lot of tries (averages one every other game I believe). With the new model England the opposition has to think about dealing with a whole lot more threats which might give him more space. As for Basteraud the last time they played Eng vs Fra Manu made him look like a slow fat prop.

All fair points, including Basteraud. I still think the off-set would be limited ball out to our back 3.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri May 15, 2015 5:48 pm

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
Daniel Sandford(BBC) wrote:

Manu Tuilagi grabbed a taxi driver by the throat, kicked his wing mirror, and then pushed two female police officers hard in the chest.

by majesticimperialman Fri May 15, 2015 5:52 pm

In any case, would England supporters consider this a big blow or a blessing in disguise? (Given the midfield experiments is Tuilagi still considered a frontrunner?)

I think it could be a blessing in disquise to be honest.

Tualaghi has not played for a long time, i think it would be wrong for him to come straight back in to the squad/team when having not played any top rugby for a while.

May be manu will realise that just because he is a England international rugby player, that he is not above the law.

by No 7&1/2 Fri May 15, 2015 6:01 pm

What a plonker. Hes obviously a miss as fit and on form hes brilliant. We aint seen that since his injuries though anyway.

by Geordie Fri May 15, 2015 7:13 pm

He would be a good player to have in the squad I don't think anyone doubts that...but there were huge ??over his injuries anyway.

One thing that does concern me is the power coming from midfield. I would still like a power carrying option in the squad, but I cant think of any others. Burrell at 13 maybe...he didn't do much at 12.

by Cyril Fri May 15, 2015 7:21 pm

What a twit. Another rugby player acting like a dimwit and ending up in court Sad

Still, I think most of us had written him off (at least for the short to mid-term future). Great talent fit and on form but he hasn't been that for ages.

I also prefer that we don't have to pick a side around him (which is always tempting) as it constrains us in other areas.

by Geordie Fri May 15, 2015 7:25 pm

Well it means we have two players set in stone Very Happy

7 Robshaw
13 Joseph

by king_carlos Fri May 15, 2015 7:40 pm

A blessing in disguise for the team? No in my opinion. Whilst Joseph has been excellent and would hopefully have kept the 13 shirt, having Manu as an option at 12 or coming off the bench would have offered us some real destructive power. That would be very useful in usual physical, tight RWC games.

A blessing in disguise for Manu? Quite possibly as he was starting to head down the Jamie Roberts route of injured, still injured, might be fit, oh no still injured, plays two games for his club, returns for a few internationals, injured, etc. A proper preseason to get genuinely fit and sort out little niggles could do him the world of good in the long run.

This may be shot down immediately, but looking to the RWC squad I now think Daly is a guy we really need to look at as back up to Joseph. We've seen since JJ came in just what a player who offers real attacking threat on the outside and some footwork at 13 can add. If Joseph were to get injured then Daly is our next best option to continue that game plan. Plus he offers versatility to a RWC squad and a huge boot as a second kicking option.

by Geordie Fri May 15, 2015 7:41 pm

Just thinking...also makes you wonder how injured Manu has actually been.

by SecretFly Fri May 15, 2015 7:43 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Just thinking...also makes you wonder how injured Manu has actually been.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri May 15, 2015 7:49 pm

Hasn't Jack Nowell been playing very well at 13 this year for Exeter? England seem to have a lot of other options even with Tuilagi out.

by Geordie Fri May 15, 2015 7:54 pm

Rory,

We do...but I think we miss his directness. None of the other options offer what he does...Burrell, Twelvetrees are the biggest and don't offer his explosive power.

He gives a great contrast to a more athletic runner like Joseph.

Anyway its irrelevant now...hes gone.

So that leaves the options as......

Joseph, Burrell, ~~Tuilagi~~,Eastmond, 12T, Barritt, Slade, Daly

by bedfordwelsh Fri May 15, 2015 8:02 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:What a plonker. Of course we do not know the facts or what really happened, but he had to know that assaulting a police officer was going to all but ruin his career. Good decision by Lancaster.

Don't really need to know all the facts just the fact that it has happened and what a very silly boy he his. 110% correct call by SL.

by The Saint Fri May 15, 2015 8:09 pm

Oh dear Manu. Carry on behaving like this and people on here will be convinced you're Welsh...

by Geordie Fri May 15, 2015 9:34 pm

by MarcusHalberstram Fri May 15, 2015 9:58 pm

My God, MT is such a benis. The only English player of his generation that all international teams (and fans) genuinely fear, and at this rate he'll never turn out for them again. He really is the English Henson.

by Gwlad Fri May 15, 2015 10:55 pm

The Saint wrote:Oh dear Manu. Carry on behaving like this and people on here will be convinced you're Welsh...

Well you two definitely have something in common

by The Saint Fri May 15, 2015 11:10 pm

Gwlad wrote:
The Saint wrote:Oh dear Manu. Carry on behaving like this and people on here will be convinced you're Welsh...

Well you two definitely have something in common

What, that we're both Welsh? Or we both like to beat up women? Very Happy

by Steve_rugby Fri May 15, 2015 11:49 pm

MarcusHalberstram wrote:My God, MT is such a benis. The only English player of his generation that all international teams (and fans) genuinely fear, and at this rate he'll never turn out for them again. He really is the English Henson.

Benis ?

by **Rugby Fan** Sat May 16, 2015 1:54 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Just thinking...also makes you wonder how injured Manu has actually been.

Are you thinking

"Not injured now, but kept back by Leicester over the last two weeks because of this incident"

or

"Injured more seriously than reported, leading to frustrated player hitting the bottle one night and totally losing control"?

by Guest Sat May 16, 2015 2:36 am

Pretty disappointing for England fans I bet. Brave call from SL and I respect him for making this 'no d**kheads' decision for the team. Can't have been easy. But I gather Manu has been long-term injured so is this decision made easier to swallow as there was some doubt about him being injury free for the RWC anyway?

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sat May 16, 2015 7:58 am

This has some parallels with the Glasgow Warriors player Ryan 'Batman' Wilson. This was the incident in Glasgow where he assaulted another rugby player (from amateur side Glasgow Hawks) in November 13 after a drunken night out. On conviction at court (a massive fine) the SRU hit him with a 3 month ban from playing (for the Warriors and Scotland) in January this year. I believe some sensible application by the Glasgow Warriors management had him on anger/alcohol management type therapies. He knuckled down, trained hard and according to Toonie has come back even stronger (on the field!). Wilson benches today in our crunch game v Ulster.
Wilson though did not assault police officers - he was not arrested at the time only subsequently after enquiry. Probably cost Wilson £10000 in lost earnings plus a £2000 fine.
Tuilagi should phone Wilson and seek assistance.

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