England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

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So after all the drama and acrimony of the last couple of weeks, its time for the action to begin on the field. The first test of the English summer gets underway at the HQ from tomorrow. An upcoming New Zealand against an embattled England. But England are on home turf, New Zealand don't have a good record in England, most of their recent success has come at home, the core of their test side are just coming on the back of T-20 cricket at the IPL rather than much getting used to English conditions.
England on the other hand are without a coach and questions on Kevin Pietersen are going away nowhere. There are unsettled issues about the combination of the side, with the position of one of the openers, the 3rd seamer and the spinner being open questions.
Adam Lyth is likely to make his debut for England tomorrow, and there is a chance that Mark Wood might come in for Chris Jordan.
For New Zealand, it is being suggested that Matt Henry might get to debut and offer backup to Tim Southee and Trent Boult. Martin Guptill, on the back of a spectacular world cup and 150 in the warmup game is set to come back as test opener, and Corey Anderson, coming back from injury, is set to take the all-rounder position.
Set for some very interesting cricket.......

It was clear after the first test that he was down at the top level, being selected for the first test wasn't a disaster but persisting with him in the second and third was.

Captain Cook is about to wash up on Hawaii, surely?

Defend, man!

I fully agree Hh. Three tests wasted that could have been used to bed Lyth Into the side and now the selectors have created a conundrum for themselves. They will no doubt be wanting more than 19 runs from Lyth but the Ashes are now almost here so do they persevere with Lyth and trust that he comes good and if he doesn't it hands an immediate advantage to Australia or do they try out another opener during the Ashes - far from ideal.

25 for 2 England. I hope you never put that bet on Duty.

That delivery was a little bit special though.

CaledonianCraig wrote:25 for 2 England. I hope you never put that bet on Duty.

Glorious England only need another 304 runs!

So that's...um...five from Cook, ten from Bell, about 200 from Root....

Cook, Bell and Root are now so crucial for England. The lower order can score quickly and scored well in the first innings, but would Stokes, Buttler and Ali be able to bat out the best part of a day to give New Zealand a chase of over 200?

I haven't watched any of today, but apparently we didn't get much luck. Stokes figures are somewhat worrying, and I guess he only got so many overs because Cook needed all 5 guys to put in long shifts. You do start to worry about England's attack, but the players are inexperienced and need a bit of backing.

I think England have the structure of their team right. Other than Cook's partner, the top 5 look settled in their roles. Lyth deserves his shot for this series, so it will be interesting to see how he goes in the second test. Stokes, Buttler and Ali, in my opinion, are in the right places. We need Ali to work on his bowling, and therefore taking away the pressure of batting top 6 may help. Same with Buttler and his keeping. Stokes looks more like a batting all rounder, who should focus on his batting and maybe come on for the odd spell to try to make something happen, but if your 4 front-line bowlers are firing than Stokes can just keep his feet up.

Robbo bowling stats dont do Stokes justice. He bowled very well and had two or was it three dropped catches and other near misses from hostile bowling. On another day he could have had four wickets.

Okay, like I say, haven't been able to watch any of today, been out playing rugby league. He took 15 wickets in Australia at just over 30, so he can do it, but I remember looking at one stage today and he was 0-105 of 21, and I'm not sure if that's how he finished. I'll take your word that he bowled better than that, but I don't think we would be able to rely on him in a 4-man attack, and if the ball's swinging around corners for our other 3 then he might not get a chance to grab the ball.

Back to the game, Cook and Bell have to come out tomorrow morning as if they're coming out on Day 5 batting to save the test match. They can't start to think about what New Zealand might do in a 4th innings, the speed this game has moved on, even if England get a quick 350, New Zealand will have ample time to knock off the 200 runs they need. We need to try to bat New Zealand out of time as much as naything. Cook and Bell need to get to lunch and then level the scores before we can possibly change mindset and start thinking about where we'd like to be and how long we'd like to give New Zealand to get (say) 250. I'd say no longer than 2 sessions so New Zealand have to try to force the game.

If we get out of this with a draw at least it leaves us with a series win to play for. But if we play really well tomorrow then we could force a win and take the advantage, but we need to work hard before we can look to up the pace and set a total.

Well done England.

They have reeled the tourists in nicely; from trailing by 86 runs with the loss of only two wickets, New Zealand will be irritated at only amassing a lead of 134.

From there, England have made a solid start with the bat. Another 260 runs will make this thoroughly awkward for New Zealand but, in all truth, one can expect England to make more.

Sorry to all the knee-jerkers, but this is a five-day game!

With the rain incoming, and New Zealand having to bat last, it is difficult to see how England can possibly lose from here. The Kiwis had to make this a bat-once-and-win type of encounter - they have failed.

And England can counter beautifully.

You do talk some rubbish sometimes Duty, at this moment in time we're up against it and a New Zealand win is the most likely outcome.

I think it's the BBC talking rubbish, claiming New Zealand had a dominant day.

New Zealand made 220/8 today, after amassing 303/2 the day before. This was followed by England creating a decent foundation for the second innings, without any of their four half-century makers at the crease.

New Zealand dominant today, really?

Negotiate the first hour tomorrow without heavy losses, and England can truly advance. If New Zealand cannot summon up one terrific spell of bowling in the opening hour, they will not win.

That is a fairly dominant day in the context of the match, most of the wickets were lost when they started upping the pace wanting to have a go at England in the evening duly getting two big wickets.

England starting the second innings better than the first does not make it a decent foundation at all, we shouldn't constantly be in a position where we need to rebuild after two early wickets.

Sorry Duty but it's Hammersmith who is driving the car the right way down a one-way street.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You do talk some rubbish sometimes Duty, at this moment in time we're up against it and a New Zealand win is the most likely outcome.

I honestly don't think it was too disastrous a day for England - quite the opposite. Remember they were 330+ for 2 and so lost their last eight wickets for less than 200 runs so it could have been a good deal worse. England's second innings got off to a bad start but there was a mini-recovery before close. Of course New Zealand have the advantage at the moment, I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise, but all three results are still possible. Probably 40% chance of a New Zealand win, 40% chance of a draw and 20% chance of an England win.

If New Zealand bowl England out for anything under 300 it is then a case of only the rain will save England. For England to stand a chance I'd say they need to post a second innings score of a minimum 375 and for that to happen they need at least one century from their batsmen.

It was slightly New Zealand day I'd say - and they are in a very good position to win this match

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That is a fairly dominant day in the context of the match, most of the wickets were lost when they started upping the pace wanting to have a go at England in the evening duly getting two big wickets.

England starting the second innings better than the first does not make it a decent foundation at all, we shouldn't constantly be in a position where we need to rebuild after two early wickets.

I think after being 303/2, New Zealand would have been targeting 600+. Not only to wreck England in a psychological sense, but also to make the prospect of an innings victory, or a meagre run chase no greater than two digits, a realistic one.

They have lost that chance, and will, in all probability, have to chase a 150+ target (as a minimum) batting last. They could, also, be on the defensive as early as the second hour of tomorrow's play if they do not take an early wicket.

Duty281 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That is a fairly dominant day in the context of the match, most of the wickets were lost when they started upping the pace wanting to have a go at England in the evening duly getting two big wickets.

England starting the second innings better than the first does not make it a decent foundation at all, we shouldn't constantly be in a position where we need to rebuild after two early wickets.

I think after being 303/2, New Zealand would have been targeting 600+. Not only to wreck England in a psychological sense, but also to make the prospect of an innings victory, or a meagre run chase no greater than two digits, a realistic one.

They have lost that chance, and will, in all probability, have to chase a 150+ target (as a minimum) batting last. They could, also, be on the defensive as early as the second hour of tomorrow's play if they do not take an early wicket.

Yes I'd agree to a point.

I watched on Sky and I know the commentators were harping on about surviving the last few overs etc for the batsmen but for me I'd say the England batsmen may have preferred to carry on as they had played themselves in. If there had been another hour of play say I think they would have seen it through but now they have to start all over again tomorrow and first thing the bowlers will be fresh and they need to play themselves in all over again - more chance of a wicket falling first thing tomorrow morning I think than if play had gone on this evening.

If they wanted to post a score in excess of 600 then they would have batted more sensibly, the reality is they did exactly what they wanted to and will be more than happy with a 60 run lead with England two wickets down. You're painting it as if England have clawed themselves back into the game when they haven't done anything of the sort and you can also expect a collapse.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If they wanted to post a score in excess of 600 then they would have batted more sensibly, the reality is they did exactly what they wanted to and will be more than happy with a 60 run lead with England two wickets down. You're painting it as if England have clawed themselves back into the game when they haven't done anything of the sort and you can also expect a collapse.

At one stage New Zealand were 420 for 4 so to say, from that point, New Zealand weren't looking to post another 150 to 200 runs to that is errorneous or if they weren't then it is a poor gameplan from them. from 420 for 4 they put on another 103 runs for the loss of six wickets so that was a recovery of sorts by England. Obviously, they would have preferred closing with a minimum of one wicket down but two down was not disastrous. They are just over 60 adrift and Root is in great form just now and if the middle ordercould put on even half the runs they did in the first innings then England will have a lead of perhaps around 150 to 200. Okay so probably still not enough but certainly not as black a picture as looked likely at lunch or tea today.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If they wanted to post a score in excess of 600 then they would have batted more sensibly, the reality is they did exactly what they wanted to and will be more than happy with a 60 run lead with England two wickets down. You're painting it as if England have clawed themselves back into the game when they haven't done anything of the sort and you can also expect a collapse.

Why would New Zealand have wanted to amass a lead of 134, when 250+ was a realistic possibility, given how time is not an issue?

That's ludicrous to suggest.

And England have clawed their way back into the game. A good session tomorrow and they can be back in the lead. A good day tomorrow and England could have a lead of over 200, which can be defended against a side batting last.

That is so much better than the possibility they were facing at the end of the second day, where a 250+ first innings deficit looked likely.

Duty281 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If they wanted to post a score in excess of 600 then they would have batted more sensibly, the reality is they did exactly what they wanted to and will be more than happy with a 60 run lead with England two wickets down. You're painting it as if England have clawed themselves back into the game when they haven't done anything of the sort and you can also expect a collapse.

Why would New Zealand have wanted to amass a lead of 134, when 250+ was a realistic possibility, given how time is not an issue?

That's ludicrous to suggest.

And England have clawed their way back into the game. A good session tomorrow and they can be back in the lead. A good day tomorrow and England could have a lead of over 200, which can be defended against a side batting last.

That is so much better than the possibility they were facing at the end of the second day, where a 250+ first innings deficit looked likely.

Yes I agree. Nobody is saying England are on top or even near it but they'll feel better about things than they did for long periods of today. First half of the day belonged to New Zealand but England clung on in there to get a clutch of late wickets.

Duty281 wrote:
...

And England have clawed their way back into the game. A good session tomorrow and they can be back in the lead. A good day tomorrow and England could have a lead of over 200, which can be defended against a side batting last.

That is so much better than the possibility they were facing at the end of the second day, where a 250+ first innings deficit looked likely.

Duty - I think you are in danger of getting ahead of yourself. At 12.30 tomorrow the best we can hope for in the equivalent of a one innings game is to be around 0/2. Admittedly that doesn't automatically condemn us to defeat but it's still far from a good place.

A major part of our problem in this Test is that we've been playing catch up too much of the time. We're certainly not there yet and I have doubts we will be.

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
...

And England have clawed their way back into the game. A good session tomorrow and they can be back in the lead. A good day tomorrow and England could have a lead of over 200, which can be defended against a side batting last.

That is so much better than the possibility they were facing at the end of the second day, where a 250+ first innings deficit looked likely.

Duty - I think you are in danger of getting ahead of yourself. At 12.30 tomorrow the best we can hope for in the equivalent of a one innings game is to be around 0/2. Admittedly that doesn't automatically condemn us to defeat but it's still far from a good place.

A major part of our problem in this Test is that we've been playing catch up too much of the time. We're certainly not there yet and I have doubts we will be.

Of course New Zealand remain favourites but the point is they aren't as hot favourites as they were midway through todays play when they led by 40 runs and still had six first innings wickets left.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
...

And England have clawed their way back into the game. A good session tomorrow and they can be back in the lead. A good day tomorrow and England could have a lead of over 200, which can be defended against a side batting last.

That is so much better than the possibility they were facing at the end of the second day, where a 250+ first innings deficit looked likely.

Duty - I think you are in danger of getting ahead of yourself. At 12.30 tomorrow the best we can hope for in the equivalent of a one innings game is to be around 0/2. Admittedly that doesn't automatically condemn us to defeat but it's still far from a good place.

A major part of our problem in this Test is that we've been playing catch up too much of the time. We're certainly not there yet and I have doubts we will be.

Of course New Zealand remain favourites but the point is they aren't as hot favourites as they were midway through todays play when they led by 40 runs and still had six first innings wickets left.

I quite agree.

Furthermore, Guildford, I don't think the prospect of Cook/Bell/Root/Stokes/Moeen/Buttler scoring 260 (with a few chipped in from the last three) is that outlandish. England are playing catch-up, yes, but they don't have to bat last, so it is very much a game they can still win...though the rain will inevitably ruin everything!

I think a minimum of 225 runs lead are needed. Batting last will not be a walk in the park as there is already a bit of uneven bounce on the pitch.

I think an important factor is time. If England cam give New Zealand a chase of 250 at 4 an iber

Sorry on my phone so can't edit and pressed send by mistake.

250 at 4 an over and they'll have to come out and chase the game rather than just playing the ball and letting the runs come if they had to get, say, 250 in a day.

Another interesting day. Thought England battled well - without much luck - to stay in the contest . Still playing catch up , indeed. And NZ remain on top.
But although two wickets fell early , England seem to have resisted the urge to collapse So they start day four with a realistic chance of batting themselves back into the game.
Day three was better for the bowlers. but still 300 runs (approx) for the day. So assuming conditions remain similar you'd think if England were to bat all day they'd be nearly 250 in front ...actually I suspect if they batted well enough to do so they'd probably score more.
Which might leave all results possible on the last day - even Duty's hopeful 14/1 punt
Even so ; theyre still 60 behind and some early wickets would see NZ right on top. NZ are still favourites.
But at least the game is still on ; which looked unlikely at the end of day two.

Hi Alfie - looks at the moment a better batting day. Brighter and less breeze than the previous days. However, there's talk of showers later - it is after all a Bank Holiday weekend!

New Zealand clearly in the better place currently. I'm waiting for around 12.30 to next judge it. By then, I reckon we should be about level / slightly ahead. It'll of course be the wickets lost at that time that matter so much. A couple more and big trouble for England. None and, as you suggest, we might just start to gain momentum although even then it'll still be some way to go to set any sort of a challenging target.

If we are able to set a target of 250ish as has been suggested (I have serious doubts), then contrary to Robbo's post I think it could be more awkward for NZ to have a whole day to reach that total than, say, 60 or less overs. In the latter scenario with McCullum and other biffers in the side, they'll be more than willing to chance their arm for a while and should be capable of batting out the remaining overs for a draw if they lose early wickets. Furthermore, a run rate around 4.25 - 4.50 is nothing to get too excited about these days, even in Test cricket.

For England to make a real match of this then I believe they have to be looking to this sort of route map. Get to lunch no worse than 160 for 4, at tea for 270 for 6 and around close if they have been bowled out for say 375+ then they have a fighting chance.

New Zealand will settle for getting four wickets in the morning (three minimum), another three or four in the afternoon and bowling England out in the final session for around 250 leaving them with only around 120 to chase down which should prove fairly straight forward.

Key today: Get to lunch with maximum of 1 wicket down. Bell/Cook to go on and make a big hundred with hopefully Root joinging them again. Then some cameo's from Stokes/Buttler/Moeen and hopefully by the end of the day we'll be somewhere around 300, and then bat until lunch tomorrow. When's the rain due by the way?

Good start boys

Great delivery that to remove Bell on third ball of the day. This emphasises what I said last night.

Very poor from Bell

I said that commentators were musing about England had to survive last evening but at least the batsmen had played themselves in despite talk of survival. I always felt they'd have preferred batting on last night and coming out and resetting the mind is more difficult and leaves you more vulnerable than last night.

Olly wrote:Very poor from Bell

He desperately needs a big score otherwise he will go into the Ashes Series on a big downer and with the green Lyth still having question marks over him that is far from an ideal position to be in batting-wise.

Emphasises the exact opposite of what you and Duty were saying, at no point were we back in this game and at no point were New Zealand ever behind where they wanted to be.

Its very much NZ's test to lose atm, but If these two can put a big partnership together I think we can get a draw. If one of these two goes before lunch, NZ will be batting at the end of the day.

On Bell's dissmisal, for such an experienced batsmen to be playing that loose on such an important morning is very dissapointing. He got away with it yesterday but all he needed to do was see out the first hour, then go on the charge. Bell needs a big score this series otherwisew I'd be looking at changing it for the ashes.

The point I think myself and Duty were making was that at 420 for 4 New Zealand were surely set for a score of 600 plus but they scored 80 less than that which England can take solace from. With 600+ an inmings defeat may have come into the equation but now England could still post a total that could still prove tricky to get.

I agree Craig, NZ will be dissapointed England aren't more runs behind. Think they wanted an innings defeat but it was a good comeback for england. hearts in mouths time for root there, thank god its hit the ground. Can't stress how important this partnership is.

At this rate NZ won't have much more than 200 to chase, if that. Still 45 runs behind with only 7 wickets in hand...both Cook and Root batting a bit nervously. Not exactly filled with confidence.

Boult almost bowling too well here - excellent swing bowling

Not sure why it's hard to understand that NZ wanted to be bowling yesterday evening, it's the exact reason why they upped the pace.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Not sure why it's hard to understand that NZ wanted to be bowling yesterday evening, it's the exact reason why they upped the pace.

And not sure why it is hard for you to understand that when you are 40 runs ahead with six wickets remaining you expect a lead of 200+ not just what they got regardless of when they wanted to field as time isn't going to be an issue here has things have moved along swiftly. In any case New Zealand are ranked higher than England so is it any mammoth surprise the way things have or are going?

Completely ignore the context of the game if you wish.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Completely ignore the context of the game if you wish.

At no time have I said England were favourites or anything like that. I've always said since lunch on day two that Nz have been in the boxseat. As the match progresses the outlook changes as runs are scored or wickets fall. Point being New Zealand at 420 for 4 could conceivably been thinking of pushing for a win by an innings but now that isn't the case (most probably).

Reckon you're both right, once NZ got 100+, anything was a bonus. Got to remember that they got to 420/4 on this pitch, so they probably realised that it was time, and not runs, which was at a premium. They'd probably would have rather been a little further ahead, but it's no train smash, if anything this is as good a position as they could have hoped for. England are effectively -40/3. Get Cook or Root out and it's Harlem Shake

Looks like Al and Joe have decided to knuckle down and concentrate on not getting out. Sensible strategy as somebody has to build a platform for the likes of Stokes and Buttler to score quick runs later...hopefully...

So virtually level at 12.30 - for those who have been hanging on my earlier posts! Trouble is 3 down. Could be worse (given this morning's starting point) but still hard for me to see anything other than a New Zealand win.