2015 - Division 2 discussion thread

[Corporalhumblebucket]

First topic message reminder :

Thought I would start a Div 2 thread to mark Leics taking a first innings lead of 114 against Essex.   Leics have imploded several times recently towards end of cc matches, no doubt betraying a fragile confidence.  Can they finally end their winless cc run?

[guildfordbat]

Comfortable win for Kent over Leics as expected.

The Manchester weather allowing only 70 overs in days 1 and 2 of the match between Lancs and Essex. The hosts are 257/5. Unless there's some inventive captaincy, hard to see a positive result.

Glam really motored in an effort to make up for lost overs in their match away to Derbys. The visitors declared on 410/9 in just under 80 overs. Derbys on 122/2 after 40 overs, needing 139 more to avoid the follow on. Feel avoiding the follow on will be crucial to Derbys if they are to get away with a draw.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Lancs well on top against Essex, who are facing the likely prospect of following on, but a lot of time has been lost to bad weather. Lancs will  hope they can somehow take 15 Essex wickets on the last day.

Glamorgan enforced the follow on, but again a fair bit of time was lost to the weather.  There's still at least an evens chance that Glam will win, with Derby starting the last day 121 runs behind with all 10 wickets in hand.  Derby would need to bat until well after tea to be sure of shutting Glam out the game.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Lancs will be pleased to have taken the last 5 Essex wickets this morning and enforced the follow on. But it is a tall order for Lancs to take another 10 wickets in two sessions.

Derby only lost two wickets this morning and so the Glam side still have plenty to do.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Derby put up strong resistance during the afternoon to reach 216 - 2, giving them a lead of 58 over Glam and, barring a spectacular collapse by Derby, that game is heading for a draw. 

Meanwhile Essex have reached tea at 111 - 2.  They still trail Lancs by 88 and so that game is not over just yet, but a draw is now by the most likely result.

If both matches finish in draws Surrey will be relieved.

[guildfordbat]

Derby put up strong resistance during the afternoon to reach 216 - 2, giving them a lead of 58 over Glam and, barring a spectacular collapse by Derby, that game is heading for a draw. 

Meanwhile Essex have reached tea at 111 - 2.  They still trail Lancs by 88 and so that game is not over just yet, but a draw is now by the most likely result.

If both matches finish in draws Surrey will be relieved.

Corporal - agreed although from the perspective of second placed Surrey, I'm more worried about Glam in third place coming up on the rails than leaders Lancs.

[chichestersurryfan]

Well played Debyshire and Essex...oh and Gloucestershire too.... A good afternoon for Surrey fans me thinks...especially as I think Glamorgan have to play Lancs twice!

[jimbohammers]

Good debut for Dawson at Essex, helps them secure a draw vs Lancs

[king_carlos]

A good day for Surrey fans with Derby managing to salvage a draw against Glamorgan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-two/table

There's the stable for those who fancy a look.

From a Surrey perspective, Lancs are now 30 points clear at the top although they have played more games than any other Div 2 side. Surrey have one game in hand on them having played 10. Glamorgan are 20 points behind in third having played 9.

[SimonofSurrey]

Barring a late run from those just below (always possible), it's building to a fascinating '2 up from 3'. What adds to that plot - as chichester points out - is that there are two Glam v Lancs games to come. One of them will have to lose points to the other there. And after those, Surrey travel to Lancs in the penultimate round of games, from 14-17 September. Here's hoping the weather doesn't play a decisive and unwelcome role in all this, especially not in mid-September in Manchester.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Glam bowlers have started well against Essex, who are currently 113 - 4.  Guildford's hot tip for future England off spinner - Salter - dismissed Ryder in his first over.

***

Now Essex 189 - 6, with Foster and Les Dawson at the crease.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Essex out for 279 and Glam finish on 40 -3 (including loss of a nightwatchman).  Looks like both this match at Chelmsford plus Surrey v Kent at the Oval could lose a chunk of play tomorrow morning due to expected rain.

[guildfordbat]

You would think Essex are in the better position against Glamorgan. Surrey supporters will certainly hope so. My ''hot tip'' acting like a bucket of ice cold water over poor Salter - he conceded 50 without another wicket after his first over success and was the nightwatchman who fell in the final over.

[chichestersurryfan]

Yes pleased to see Glamorgsn haven't started too well in their reply...with the forecast being decidedly dodgy over the next few days, it is hard to see a positive result from the Surrey Kent game...so Glamorgan may well end up a few points closer to Surrey....

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Essex 191 - 0 at lunch on third day of their match against Glam, and already lead by 308.  Assuming there isn't a mighty generous declaration, the best Glam can hope for will be a draw - and that may well depend on getting some help from the weather.  Nick Browne unbeaten century, and Les Dawson (on loan) has 77*

[guildfordbat]

Hi Corporal - Jimbo's man Dawson doing well. Maybe Essex will look to declare and give Glam an hour tonight?

PS No batting points for Glam in this game which is good news for Surrey.

[jimbohammers]

Corp, Guildford Dawson falls for 99 in the end.

[guildfordbat]

Jimbo - he'll be disappointed not to finish up with three figures but happy enough to have made a point.

[guildfordbat]

Essex declared at tea, a bit sooner than I thought they would and not the cleverest of tactics imo. Don't give the Glam openers 20 minutes over a nice cuppa to prepare - instead keep 'em guessing out on the field and then put 'em in.

Anyway, Glam have lost a wicket - 50 odd/1. Victory for the old school entertainers - Billy Bragg falling to Les Dawson!

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Glam subsiding in the morning session - now at 165 - 7.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

So Glam lost that match and Surrey beat Kent today.  Next up at the top of the table is Glam at "home" to Lancs on Sunday.  (In fact Colwyn Bay is very much nearer to Old Trafford than it is to Cardiff).  Glam badly need to win that match to keep in touch with Lancs and Surrey at the top of Div 2.

[guildfordbat]

Important game for the promotion race started this morning at Colwyn Bay. Third placed Glam v leaders Lancs.

Both sides opting for experience in their line ups. Veteran seamer and player coach Chapple recalled for Lancs whilst Cosker comes back in and joins up with my man Salter for a Glam spin duo.

Lancs currently 44/1.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Kolpak CC well on top on 275-2 - good news for us Surrey lot I'd suggest

[guildfordbat]

Kolpak CC well on top on 275-2 - good news for us Surrey lot I'd suggest

Agreed. It's the promised land of Division One we have to reach. Whether we enter through the front door as champions or the back door as runners up, doesn't matter much.

Lancs now 330/2.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Lancs finish on 425 - 2.  Even allowing for Colwyn Bay usually being a very high scoring ground that is a very commanding position. Seems unlikely that Glam will get more than one bowling point and they may even end up with none.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Could do with Lancs making that 550-600 by lunch tomorrow, and then winning hopefully winning over the course of the remaining days.

With Glamorgan losing last week as well, a real chance for a split between 2nd and 3rd place here

[jimbohammers]

That 'Lancashire' team is a joke.

Peterson, Prince, Faulkner, Jarvis

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Verging on the ridiculous this partnership

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Glam fail to get a single bowling point against Kolpak CC.

[LondonTiger]

Lancashire are a team with a high amount of Kolpak - but also a high amount of locally reared players. Six of the team out there today came through their age-grade system, one of whom is edging ever closer to 1000 FC wickets.

Let he whose team is without sin cast the first stone. Certainly I know that most adopting the moral high ground here support teams that have in the past been massive users of other peoples talent.

[guildfordbat]

I hope for their sakes Glam aren't playing their Joker on this round (Goochie would understand! ).

Lancs 698/5 declared. Not a single bowling point for Glam. My man Salty racking up 3 figures for none - sorry, lad! In reply, the Welshmen are 80/4 with veteran Chapple having taken 3 scalps.

[guildfordbat]

Lancashire are a team with a high amount of Kolpak - but also a high amount of locally reared players. Six of the team out there today came through their age-grade system, one of whom is edging ever closer to 1000 FC wickets.

Let he whose team is without sin cast the first stone. Certainly I know that most adopting the moral high ground here support teams that have in the past been massive users of other peoples talent.

Guess that's a reference to Yorks poaching the Lancastrian Michael Vaughan. If not, it could be going back to the days of Lord Hawke, the founding father of Yorks CCC, their captain for 20 odd years and fierce advocate of ''only Yorkies for Yorks'' despite being born in Lincs.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Essex had been putting together a decent run in Div 2 after a poor start to the season.  But they face a substantial first innings deficit - Kent already 160 ahead with only 4 wickets down.

Meanwhile Glam face obliteration against Kolpak CC unless the weather comes to their rescue.

[LondonTiger]

Lord Hawke was a hypocrite.

I just find it amusing that half the Surrey fans on here repeatedly bang on about Lancashire, bearing in mind Surrey's recruitment policies over the last 25 years.

[guildfordbat]

Tiger - is that really the case? I've seen Olly's crack about Kolpak CC but otherwise haven't noticed.

In the past our recruitment policy left a lot to be desired, especially during the Adams years. However, in more recent times we've had little to do with Kolpaks with most of the professional squad and usual first eleven having come through the Academy.

We've normally looked to have one high quality overseas signing on the books - the feeling being that as well as the interest generated amongst supporters and their contribution on the field, the youngsters will learn and benefit from being around them; Ponting being one of the best signings and Smith one of the worst imo. Given we have the resources, I think that approach is fine; indeed, it would be daft not to. [If you are thinking about Pietersen, the background as to why Surrey - who happen to play at a Test ground - first assisted the ECB and the player in giving him a county flag to attach his colours is somewhat different.]

[Corporalhumblebucket]

....I just find it amusing that half the Surrey fans on here repeatedly bang on about Lancashire, bearing in mind Surrey's recruitment policies over the last 25 years.

Just to mention that Jimbo (who commented above that the Lancs team is a joke) is a Hants rather than Surrey supporter, so it is certainly not just Surrey supporters making the point. Clearly as a Hammers supporter Jimbo is someone of considerable judgement.

I certainly grant that over time Surrey has not always invested heavily in its own youth. Under the current regime it is doing a whole lot better. Roy, Sibley, Curran x 2, Dunn, Meaker, Dernbach, Ansari, Burns, Wilson, have all been developed by Surrey - some over many years through the age group systems. Among other players, Batty returned to Surrey, his former county; everyone agreed that Tremlett's career had stalled at Hants, and he needed a refresh at another county. Surrey was asked by England to take on KP; Foakes was told by Essex he would remain behind Foster in pecking order and therefore he had decided to leave that county; Burke was gettting no first team game time at Somerset. Really I can think of only one player - Steve Davies - where it could be said Surrey poached them from a less wealthy county.

[chichestersurryfan]

corporal and Guildford, your points are very well made....I recall a couple of seasons ago, under the Adams era, I made a post expressing concerns that we (Surrey that is) could end up being seen as the Man City of the County Championship, splashing our cash around buying players in and not developing our own youngsters....the most refreshing thing about this season is that our success has been built on the back of these youngsters alongside a few seasoned pro's including overseas signings.... assuming we are promoted this season, alongside Lancashire who are currently deservedly at the top of the table , I trust that this policy will continue into next season....but as Guildford and Corporal have said, there is nothing wrong with us using our resources to try and get the best possible overseas signings as long as that is alongside our developing youngsters and not to their detriment.... I think my nomination for the least effective overseas/ ageing English pro signing, of which there have been quite a few! would be Dirk Nanes...bless him!

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Glam lower make a great effort this morning to salvage batting points and/or a draw against Lancs/Kolpak CC, but eventually all out just short of fourth batting point.  Now following on, and in trouble at 33 - 2.

Kent stacked up a pile of runs against Essex at Tunbridge Wells, and will be hoping they don't need to bat again.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Kent thrashed by Northants.

Glam looking to revive their flagging promotion bid against Gloucs. They recovered well (from 146 - 7) to finish on 271 - 8. Guildford's off spinning hot tip, Salter, finished on 73*. It seems somewhat unlikely that Glam will get more than 3 batting points.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Glam dismissed for 299 and so had to settle for two batting points.  Gloucs 79 - 2 at lunch in reply, so fairly even at the moment.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Gloucs two runs ahead of Glam with four wickets in hand at close of day 2. Still a close match and Glam have plenty of work to do if they are to recover ground on Surrey and Lancs.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

On day 1 of latest round of matches, the possible challengers to Lancs and Surrey didn't make many inroads.  Gloucs picked up one batting point (against Surrey's three bowling points) and Glam picked up one bowling point as Lancs pottered to 161 for 3 (off 63 overs) on a rain affected day in Manchester.

[LondonTiger]

Congratulations to Surrey on promotion, with Lancs just needing to hold on for the draw to join them.

Who comes up as champions could depend on the game at Old Trafford in 10 days time.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Congratulations to Surrey on promotion, with Lancs just needing to hold on for the draw to join them.

Who comes up as champions could depend on the game at Old Trafford in 10 days time.

LT - also very likely that as soon as tomorrow or weds Yorks will be assured (statistically) of the Div 1 championship which would mean that the championship and both promotion places were decided with all three of the relevant teams still having two matches (potentially 48 points) to play.

[SimonofSurrey]

Can you buy long-term success or is it better to develop it?

A few years ago, Surrey recruited a large number of iffy imports (domestic and international), usually at the wrong end of their career. Result: we got nowhere. This season, Surrey have built on promising roots to produce a side full of Surrey-grown talent - eg Roy, Ansari, Burns, Curran x2, Wilson, Batty, Dernbach, Dunn - enhanced by genuinely committed talent from elsewhere who want to be here - Davies, Foakes, Burke - and one or two cleverly found, 100% committed 'Galacticos' - Pietersen and Sanga. Result: promotion from CC2 and an RLODC final to look forward to.

Go figure.

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