WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Tonight's WWE RAW opens up with a look at Brock Lesnar and The Undertaker from last week.

- We're live from Oklahoma City with Michael Cole, JBL and Byron Saxton. We go right to the ring and out comes Triple H, Stephanie McMahon and WWE World Heavyweight Champion Seth Rollins. The roster is not on the ramp.

Triple H welcomes us to RAW and says it will be a huge night tonight. He announces the fourth hour for SummerSlam and Stephanie hypes the pay-per-view. Triple H announces Big Show vs. Dean Ambrose for tonight. Stephanie announces Paige vs. Sasha Banks for tonight. Triple H has another one for tonight - Kevin Owens vs. Randy Orton. Stephanie announces Alica Fox and Nikki Bella vs. Becky Lynch and Charlotte. Rollins takes the mic and starts bragging. He says he did what he would say at Battleground - walk in and walk out as champion. Rollins wants to involve the fans in tonight's show. He tells them to stand up and admit that he may go down as one of, if not the, greatest WWE World Heavyweight Champions of all time. The music hits and out comes WWE United States Champion John Cena.

Cena calls Rollins an arrogant jackass. Cena says many Hall of Famers have held that title and he disagrees with Rollins. Cena thinks Rollins is a joke. Cena says they need to find out who's telling the truth tonight. Cena says Rollins ran like a coward when he challenged him last week so he's here to ask Triple H and Stephanie. Cena says it's best for business if we find out if Rollins can become a man tonight. He proposes a match with the title on the line for tonight's show and the crowd pops. Rollins tells Cena to shut the hell up and gets some boos. Stephanie interrupts Rollins and says we need to ask the fans. She asks if they want to see the title match tonight and the crowd pops big time. They start chanting "yes!" and Stephanie... pulls a swerve and says no. She gets booed and says Cena has to earn the title shot. Triple H says he gets that but the idea is valid so it will be Cena vs. Rollins with the United States Title on the line, because that's what is best for business. Triple H's music hits and they make their exit with Cena looking on.

- Still to come, Orton vs. Owens and Paige vs. Sasha. Up next, Ambrose vs. Big Show. We go to commercial.

- It's announced that Steve Austin's next WWE Network podcast will take place next Monday after RAW and his guest will be Paige.

Dean Ambrose vs. Big Show

Back from the break and The Miz is out for commentary. Dean Ambrose is out next followed by Big Show.

They go at it and Show drops Ambrose with a big shoulder. Ambrose pulls the top rope down and dumps Show to the floor. Ambrose with a running kick and then a dive, sending Show into the barrier. Ambrose comes back in and goes to the top. He goes for the elbow drop to the floor but Show chops him in mid-air. We go to commercial.

Back from the break and Ambrose breaks out of a leg submission. Ambrose ends up on Show's back with a sleeper hold. Ambrose breaks it and comes off the top but Show catches him for a 2 count. Ambrose with a big DDT. Ambrose fires back with punches while Show is on his knees. Show catches him by the throat but Ambrose hits elbows. Show grabs Ambrose again and nails a chokeslam for a 2 count.

Show sends Ambrose to the floor as fans boo. Ambrose comes back in but Show superkicks him back to the floor. Show follows and hits a big spear on the floor. Ambrose almost gets counted out. Show throws him in the ring and Ambrose kicks him. Ambrose goes for another dive but runs into a big knockout punch. Ambrose is out on the floor again as the referee counts and fans boo Show. Ambrose gets his fingertips on the apron at the 10 count but can't make it in.

Winner by Count Out: Big Show

- After the match, we go to replays. We come back to Ambrose stumbling at ringside. Show approaches him but turns and walks away as Ambrose collapses in front of the barrier. Show turns back around and goes to spear Ambrose into the barrier but Ambrose side-steps and Show crashes through the barrier. Ambrose's music hits and he limps to the back while the referee checks on Show.

- Still to come, Luke Harper will recommit to The Wyatt Family. Also, Neville will be in action. Back to commercial.

Fandango vs. Neville

Back from the break and Fandango is dancing in the ring. Neville is out next to a pop. They go at it and Neville gets knocked down first by a clothesline for a 2 count. Fandango with a big chop and a submission.

Neville makes a comeback and send Fandango to the floor before leaping out onto him. Neville brings it back in the ring and goes to the top for Red Arrow. Neville nails it for the quick win.

Winner: Neville

- After the match, Stardust appears on the big screen and taunts Neville. Stardust cuts a promo on superheroes and references Stephen Amell. Stardust says he will rescue the WWE Universe and save them from the do-gooders. Stardust tells Neville there's nothing he can do to stop him. Neville just looks on confused.

- Still to come, Orton vs. Owens. Also, Paige vs. Sasha, The Lucha Dragons vs. Los Matadores and Rollins vs. Cena for the United States Title. Back to commercial.

- Back from the break and Paige is backstage with Sasha Banks and Charlotte. She talks about how people are loving the Divas Revolution. Sasha Banks, Naomi and Tamina Snuka walk in. Sasha calls them losers and says Stephanie McMahon started the revolution. Naomi says now the revolution is all about Team BAD. Charlotte "whooo's" in Sasha's face and Sasha calls her daddy's little girl. Paige and Sasha have words before Becky interrupts. Tamina cuts her off and Naomi calms her down. Team BAD leaves and says they will see them in the ring.

Paige vs. Sasha Banks

We go to the ring and out comes Paige with Becky Lynch and Charlotte. We go to commercial.

Back from the break and Naomi, Tamina and NXT Women's Champion Sasha Banks are out. Sasha still isn't carrying her title. We get a video package on Sasha as she makes her way to the ring. The bell rings and they lock up, going to the mat and back to their feet, still locked up. Sasha takes it to the corner and they lock up again, wrestling to the mat and back to their feet, tumbling out of the ring to the floor. The six Divas face off on the floor before Paige and Sasha come back in the ring. Paige ends up nailing Sasha in the face for a 2 count. Paige with takedowns and more pin attempts.

Paige takes Sasha to the corner and hits her with back elbows. Sasha comes back with a roll up for 2. Sasha takes control until Paige hits a big arm drag. They both dropkick at the same time and we have a stand off. Paige takes Sasha back down and headbutts her for another pin attempt. Paige with a fall-away slam for another 2 count. We see Team Bella watching backstage. Paige keeps Sasha grounded, still working on her arm.

More back and forth on the mat. Paige keeps Sasha down by her arm. Sasha fights back up with a knee to the gut. Paige knocks Sasha back out of the ring with a superkick. Paige goes to the top and takes down all of Team BAD on the floor. Paige brings Sasha back in the ring and we go to commercial.

Back from the break and we see there was an argument between the two teams at ringside during the break. Tamina, Charlotte, Naomi and Tamina got ejected by the referee. Sasha is in control of Paige now. We see Team Bella watching backstage as Sasha works Paige over in the corner. Sasha with the big knee drop in the corner and a 2 count. Sasha keeps control and hits a big knee to the face. She mocks Paige no the apron and comes back in but Paige rolls her up for 2. Sasha with a clothesline for 2.

Sasha keeps Paige grounded now. Paige makes a comeback and unloads on Sasha. Paige with clotheslines and a dropkick. Paige side steps and hits a superkick. Sasha blocks the PTO but Paige nails a knee to the face for a 2 count. More back and forth. Sasha hits double knees in the corner for another close 2 count. Sasha goes for the double knees again but Paige fights back and drops Sasha on her face. Paige locks in a submission but Sasha gets the bottom rope. More back and forth. Sasha hits the Backstabber and applies the Bank Statement for the win.

Winner: Sasha Banks

- After the match, Sasha's music hits and she celebrates.

- Still to come, Rollins vs. Cena for the United States Title.

- Renee Young is backstage with Rollins now. Rollins says we've seen enough of Cena and tonight, he will show Cena that the future has passed him by.

- Rusev and Summer Rae are walking backstage. Rusev has a surprise for Summer to be revealed later.

- The announcers hype WWE 2K16 and Arnold Schwarzenegger as The Terminator being a playable character. Back to commercial.

- Back from the break and Rusev is out with Summer Rae as Cole plugs Kliq Week on the WWE Network.

Rusev says he is smitten and his heart wants to burst out for the woman who healed his soul. The always hot and obedient Summer Rae. Rusev says he's going to teach American men how to treat a special woman. He brings a box in and there's a puppy inside. Summer grabs the puppy and cuddles it. Rusev says the puppy is ugly, has skinny legs, pees on itself and is neutered so they should call it Dolph Ziggler. Rusev has another surprise for Summer. She opens it and there's a huge dead fish without a head in there. He tells her to take it and hold it high. Rusev says they should name the cold fish after another cold fish they all know - Lana. Lana comes down the ramp and tells Rusev to shut up.

Lana is tired of Rusev running his mouth every week. Lana calls Rusev pitiful, just like his defeats since he hooked up with the pathetic, wanna-be Lana. Summer mocks Lana and Lana ends up kicking her down. Lana grabs Summer and rubs her face into the dead fish. Lana slaps Rusev as he runs his mouth. She leaves the ring with Summer screaming in disgust. Rusev grabs the fish and throws it at Lana but she's already on her way to the back. Rusev helps Summer up but apparently she smells.

Still to come, Owens vs. Orton. Also, a look back at last week's big brawl. We go to commercial.

- Back from the break and we get a look at Brock Lesnar and The Undertaker from last week.

The Lucha Dragons vs. Los Matadores

We go to the ring and out comes Sin Cara and Kalisto. Back to commercial.

Back from the break and Los Matadores are out with El Torito. WWE Tag Team Champion The Prime Time Players are on commentary. Sin Cara starts off for his team. Lots of back and forth with Cara in control now. Kalisto comes in off the ropes for a 2 count. Matadores turn it around and double team Kalisto now. He takes Diego down with knees out of the corner and keeps him grounded. Cara tags in for some double teaming. Diego takes him to the corner and tags in Fernando. Cara counters their double team and sends one of them to the floor. Cara ends up getting dumped hard to the floor and Torito is used on him as a weapon. Los Matadores taunt the champions before bringing it back in the ring and keeping Cara grounded.

Matadores with more double teaming on Sin Cara. The end comes when The New Day comes down to provide distraction. The Prime Time Players confront them at ringside, leading to The Lucha Dragons getting the win with a roll up.

Winners: The Lucha Dragons

- We get a look back at Battleground with Luke Harper helping Bray Wyatt defeat Roman Reigns. Up next, Harper will recommit to The Wyatt Family. Back to commercial.

- Back from the break and out comes Bray Wyatt with Luke Harper as "fireflies" light the arena up.

Wyatt starts talking about family. He goes on and says Harper was once a damaged man but he fixed him, knowing one day that he would have to be set free. Wyatt hands Harper the mic and tells him to say his peace. Harper says there was a time where he wondered why he even existed and what his purpose was. Harper says his family found him and Wyatt showed him the truth. Harper says this is all the fans fault, they made Harper what he is and they shunned him. Harper says Wyatt saved him, opened his eyes, made him stronger than ever and showed him his path in life. Harper says now he knows that when you pray for the rain, you best be ready for the mud. Harper says his life is for Wyatt and hands the mic back. Wyatt says Harper would go to hell for him and already has. Wyatt talks about Roman Reigns and Dean Ambrose now.

Wyatt says if Reigns really cared about Ambrose he would tell him to walk away from this. Wyatt says he's going to seal Reigns' fate. Wyatt says they are here and drops to his knees to pose. He ends it with, "follow the buzzards!"

- Still to come, Orton vs. Owens and Rollins vs. Cena for the United States Title.

Charlotte and Becky Lynch vs. Nikki Bella and Alicia Fox

We go to the ring and out comes Charlotte and Becky Lynch. They make their entrance and we go to commercial.

Back from the break and out comes WWE Divas Champion Nikki Bella with Alicia Fox and Brie Bella. Becky starts off with Nikki and they go at it. Nikki gets the upperhand at first but Becky takes her down by the arm. Charlotte tags in and they double team Nikki with dropkicks. Charlotte ducks a clothesline and hits Charlotte's Web for a 2 count. Charlotte takes Nikki to the corner for chops now. Charlotte runs into boots and Nikki takes control. Fox tags in for some double teaming. She works on Charlotte's arm now.

Charlotte fights out, sends Fox to the mat and hits a big knee drop. We see Team BAD watching backstage. Charlotte gets distracted by Nikki on the apron and turns around to a big kick from Fox. Fox with another kick and a Northern Lights suplex for 2. Nikki comes back in and kicks Charlotte's leg out for a 2 count. Nikki keeps Charlotte grounded with a knee to the back now. Nikki hits Becky on the apron and clotheslines Charlotte. Nikki shows off with push-ups and hits a slingshot suplex for a 2 count. Alicia tags back in for a double suplex. Alicia drops an elbow for a 2 count. Fox with a boot to the back now, turning it into a submission. Charlotte turns it into a 2 count and starts making her comeback but tags in Becky. Becky unloads on Fox and Nikki, knocking her off the apron.

Becky with a t-bone suplex on Fox but Nikki comes in for the save. Charlotte comes in and takes Nikki out with a spear. Fox rolls Becky up from behind with a 2 count. Becky turns that into the Disarm-Her and Fox taps out for the win.

Winner: Becky Lynch

- We get a look at Patrick's elimination on WWE Tough Enough last week and the remaining 8 competitors. We also see Big Show's appearance on last week's show.

- We see Orton and Owens walking backstage. Back to commercial.

Kevin Owens vs. Randy Orton

Back from the break and Sheamus is on commentary. Randy Orton is out first followed by Kevin Owens.

They meet in the middle of the ring and talks trash to start. Owens shoves Orton. Orton comes back with a kick and they start going at it. Orton drops Owens with an uppercut and he rolls to the floor for a breather. Orton follows and they go at it. Owens takes the upperhand and sends Orton into the barrier. Orton follows up with a clothesline and brings it back in the ring. Orton starts stomping now. Owens fights back and runs over Orton with a clothesline as fans boo. Owens stomps and punches Orton some more. Orton comes back with a dropkick out of nowhere. Owens rolls to the floor for a breather.

Orton follows with uppercuts. Owens sends him into the ring post. Owens with a fall-away slam into the barrier. Owens rolls back into the ring as we go to commercial.

Back from the break and Owens has Orton down in a headlock. Orton fights up and out but Owens drops him with a clothesline. Owens with the splash for a 2 count. Owens poses and fans boo. He stomps on Orton and talks trash. Orton fights back and they trade shots now. Orton with the backbreaker. Owens comes back in the corner and drops Orton again with clotheslines. Owens drops a big knee to the chest for another 2 count. Owens yells out at Cole while choking Orton on the middle rope. Owens with elbows in the corner.

Owens drops Orton with a big running shot in the corner. Owens goes for the cannonball but Orton moves out of the way. Orton with clotheslines and a powerslam. The crowd gets hype for Orton but he runs into an elbow in the corner. Owens comes off the second rope but Orton catches him with a big throw. Owens rolls to the apron. Orton grabs him but Owens drops him over the top rope. Owens pulls Orton to the floor but Orton counters and sends him into the barrier. Sheamus runs over and hits Orton from behind with a Brogue Kick for the disqualification.

Winner by DQ: Randy Orton

- Fans boo Sheamus as he asks if we're entertained. Sheamus rolls Orton back in the ring but Cesaro runs out. Cesaro with a big uppercut on Sheamus. Cesaro leaps out onto Owens. Sheamus comes after him but eats another big uppercut. Cesaro brings Owens in the ring but has to kick Sheamus away. Cesaro turns around to a pop-up powerbomb from Owens. Owens stands over Orton and Cesaro while Sheamus raises his briefcase on the floor. Owens talks trash to Cesaro and mushes his face as we go to replays. Owens makes his exit as a referee checks on Cesaro. Owens yells back at Orton that this isn't the last time for them.

- Renee Young is backstage with John Cena. Renee asks what if Seth Rollins wins tonight. Cena cuts a promo about how he's defended the title lately but none of those matches were as important as tonight's match. Cena says he's going face to face with the WWE World Heavyweight Champion and the great debate will be over - either Rollins is as good as he says he is and leaves with both titles or Cena shocks the world and defeats the world champion in the middle of the ring, proving once and for all that the real champ is here. Cena walks off and we go to commercial.

WWE United States Title Match: Seth Rollins vs. John Cena

Back from the break and WWE United States Champion John Cena is out first to put his title on the line. WWE World Heavyweight Champion Seth Rollins is out next.

We get formal ring introductions from Lilian Garcia. They lock up and go at it. Rollins has to retreat to the floor for an early breather. Rollins comes back in and strikes with a kick but Cena takes him down with a headlock. Back and forth now. Cena tries for an early Attitude Adjustment but Rollins blocks it and kicks him down. Rollins with more strikes and a 2 count. Rollins with a headlock as we go to commercial.

Back from the break and Cena misses a big splash in the corner and goes down. Rollins covers for a 2 count. Rollins with more offense and another 2 count. Cena finally makes the comeback with the shoulders. Rollins counters and rolls Cena up for 2. Cena with another slam attempt but Rollins turns it into a takedown. Rollins with another 2 count after a big kick.

Cena counters a neckbreaker and slams Rollins. Cena calls for the Five Knuckle Shuffle but Rollins kicks him. Rollins misses in the corner and Cena hits a big tornado DDT for 2. Cena goes for the AA again but Rollins shoves him out of the ring. Rollins dives out and sends Cena into the barrier. Rollins brings Cena back in and goes to the top. Rollins with a flying knee to the face for another 2 count. Rollins waits for Cena to get up but Cena blocks the Pedigree. Cena goes for the STF but Rollins fights him. Rollins ends up on Cena's shoulders and Cena slams him face first for a close 2 count.

They get up and trade shots in the middle of the ring. Rollins unloads and drops Cena with a knee to the nose. The referee backs Rollins off and checks on Cena. Cole say Cena's nose may be broken. Cena runs over and unloads on Rollins while the referee is talking to him. Cena dumps Rollins to the apron but Rollins kicks him. Rollins goes to the top but Cena decks him. Rollins catches Cena on the top and nails the corner powerbomb across the ring for a 2 count. A WWE doctor comes in the ring and checks on Cena now.

The doctor leaves the ring and Rollins grabs Cena for the Pedigree. Cena counters and hits the springboard stunner. Cena goes for an Attitude Adjustment but Rollins lands on his feet. Rollins with two kicks and a close 2 count. Fans chant "this is awesome" now. Cena hits Rollins with an AA out of nowhere for a close 2 count. The doctor checks on Cena again and it definitely looks like his nose is broken. Cena goes to the top but Rollins runs up and superplexes him. Rollins goes right into another slam for a close 2 count. Cena ends up getting the win with the STF after more back and forth.

Winner: John Cena

- After the match, Cena takes his title and celebrates as RAW goes off the air.

What Cena's nose looked like after Raw....

I'm interested in the Cena / Rollins fight. I didn't expect them to go at it so hard in the run up to the PPV. I must admit that much of the rest sounds skippable to me.

I like how 15 time World Champion and current US Champion John Cena "shocks the world and defeats the world champion [1 time World Champion Seth Rollins] in the middle of the ring". A true underdog story.

I didn't see this yet, but isn't the story that John Cena is saying that Rollins is a nothing champion? And he's done more in his US title run than Rollins has done with the World Title?

As ever, with the booking of Rollins as champion, I totally disagree in the path that is taken. If Rollins is a chump and Cena beats him, so what? Cena beat a chump, no one comes out of that a winner. But at least in defeat it sounds like Rollins is looking stronger here than he has for most of this forgettable title reign.

Thrown away there probable headline match at Summerslam...on RAW...great booking again! Kudos to Cena/Rollins as it was a fantastic match...yet, now they have to notch it up again in a few weeks time and I worry whether they can go better than they did; especially given they had Rollins kick out of AA, the superplex into a sitout suplex (which was awesome) and even had Rollins go for the Phoenix splash!

Summerslam confirmed for 4 hours *think we all know that means substantial amounts of filler/comedic crap* and as it stands seems like;

Rollins vs Cena (World Title)
Taker vs Brock
Orton vs Sheamus (confirmed)
Owens vs Cesaro (US title??)
Stardust vs Neville/Green Arrow (imagine the latter)

Should be a great card on paper and in wrestling terms could be one of the best in recent times...but from a booking stand point I think it's an absolute nightmare tbh.

I knew RAW was onto a winner during the opening segment.

Tonight (Yes) for the first time ever (Ok this could be good) The worlds largest athlete (Oh god no) The Big Show (done).

Thats how long it took for me to lose interest in RAW this week. Admittedly Im just back from a weekend long bender in Prague and am still a bit tender but I just couldnt get into anything tonight. Rollins vs Cena was very good, but it shouldnt have been for the US title and Rollins shouldnt have lost. Cena is right, at this point the US title is the most prestigious in WWE.

Kevin Owens vs Orton should have been huge but was just another throwaway match in the Sheamus/Orton feud.

The divas put on another great showing. I expect Charlotte will be the one to beat Nikki for the title but we've another month or two to go yet.

Samo wrote:I knew RAW was onto a winner during the opening segment.

Tonight (Yes) for the first time ever (Ok this could be good)  The worlds largest athlete (Oh god no) The Big Show (done).

I'm possibly the only person in the world who feels sorry for Big Show. I know I shouldn't as he continues to make bucket loads of money for what he does, but I do.

Back in the day, The Giant was one of the things that got me stopping changing the channel and watching WCW. He was just so big and menacing that you couldn't not want to see what he could do to another man. And that probably sounds odd now, because he was never a super athlete, but compare him to Andre or Giant Gonzalez, etc and he was a worker.

The story goes that WWE originally turned Paul Wight away on the basis of his lack of experience. But, when they finally got their man it was probably at the best time possible. He had experience, he was 27 and able to perform. And, having found out what others were on in WCW he was probably genuinely peed off and ready to go out and prove a point.

I think Vince killed him nearly from day 1. Big Show had to debut as his lackey. And the name, the Big Show. It literally sounds like, here is a circus, they may as well have just stuck a big red nose on Paul Wight's face. Who's ever going to quiver in fear at something that summons up images of the circus? Over exposed to a degree that few wrestlers have had to suffer, unprotected like no other main eventer and we all know about the continuous face and heel turns and comedy skits that he's gone with.

Now, I'm not going to say that Big Show has helped himself on occasion. But even at 43, this dude should have the aura of Brock Lesnar when he steps in a ring. It should be special, it should be scary. It should look like he could crush a man with his bare hands.

He can still deliver on occasion, but the dude's not getting any younger and he's slowed to glacial pace. And what's worst, he can't put anyone over. You beat Big Show. So what? Everyone has beaten Big Show. I'd love him to get one last run of having the fans hot for him. It's never going to happen, but bring up Tyler Breeze. Stick him in a tag team with Big Show. Let Breeze want all the glory and get beaten up by whoever they are facing each match, before finally he sees the light and is able to tag in Big Show who clears house before Breeze recovers enough to get the win. Just have him do what he does best, look very big.

And then let him retire. Because the saddest thing in wrestling for me is listening to fans chanting for Big Show to retire. He's given a lot to wrestling and he's still given me a lot of moments that I fondly remember (who'll ever forget the ring breaking with Brock).

It was actually a really good show. It advanced a lot of things well, some good fresh matches, the only losers who looked soft were the jobbers. Characters were showcased well, especially Miz, PTPs, New Day.

I like what they did with Orton and Owens. Thats how that should have been booked on TV. A glimpse, but ruined by other feuds. Good.

On Big Show, I don't know what you expect. Well I do, but I don't know how you expect that. Its been 16 years, you can't have that aura after 16 years without being one of the greats. And Big Show was never destined to be one of the greats. He came in as the era of overexposure began. People often talk about how wrestlers are overexposed, but its the nature of the beast to some extent. When you're working on television at least once a week, then into PPVs every month, its going to happen. Especially after 16 years. And when the base story around your work is the slaying of the giant, you don't have much to you to be consistently relevant to main event scene wrestling.

Also, the Big Show retire stuff is because hes a heel.

And the Tyler Breeze thing to me, with all due respect and plenty love, sounds like the worst idea posted on the wrestling part of this forum in a long time!

Prometheus wrote:

I'm possibly the only person in the world who feels sorry for Big Show.  I know I shouldn't as he continues to make bucket loads of money for what he does, but I do.

Back in the day, The Giant was one of the things that got me stopping changing the channel and watching WCW.  He was just so big and menacing that you couldn't not want to see what he could do to another man.  And that probably sounds odd now, because he was never a super athlete, but compare him to Andre or Giant Gonzalez, etc and he was a worker.

The story goes that WWE originally turned Paul Wight away on the basis of his lack of experience.  But, when they finally got their man it was probably at the best time possible.  He had experience, he was 27 and able to perform.  And, having found out what others were on in WCW he was probably genuinely peed off and ready to go out and prove a point.

I think Vince killed him nearly from day 1.  Big Show had to debut as his lackey.  And the name, the Big Show.  It literally sounds like, here is a circus, they may as well have just stuck a big red nose on Paul Wight's face.  Who's ever going to quiver in fear at something that summons up images of the circus?  Over exposed to a degree that few wrestlers have had to suffer, unprotected like no other main eventer and we all know about the continuous face and heel turns and comedy skits that he's gone with.

Now, I'm not going to say that Big Show has helped himself on occasion.  But even at 43, this dude should have the aura of Brock Lesnar when he steps in a ring.  It should be special, it should be scary.  It should look like he could crush a man with his bare hands.

He can still deliver on occasion, but the dude's not getting any younger and he's slowed to glacial pace.  And what's worst, he can't put anyone over.  You beat Big Show.  So what?  Everyone has beaten Big Show.  I'd love him to get one last run of having the fans hot for him.  It's never going to happen, but bring up Tyler Breeze.  Stick him in a tag team with Big Show.  Let Breeze want all the glory and get beaten up by whoever they are facing each match, before finally he sees the light and is able to tag in Big Show who clears house before Breeze recovers enough to get the win.  Just have him do what he does best, look very big.  

And then let him retire.  Because the saddest thing in wrestling for me is listening to fans chanting for Big Show to retire.  He's given a lot to wrestling and he's still given me a lot of moments that I fondly remember (who'll ever forget the ring breaking with Brock).

I dont have an issue with Big Show as a person or a performer. I genuinely believe he's the best big man the business has seen based purely on his ability to mix things up, even recently we've seen him head to the top rope. I gained a tonne of respect for him when he took time off to get himself together and back in shape and came back as good as ever.

However.

My biggest problem with the Big Show is that its been the same story since he debuted, and I'm bored of him now. I dont agree with the fans chanting please retire, thats just plain disrespectful to a guy thats given his life in the ring. I'm grateful, but i'm also bored.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

And the Tyler Breeze thing to me, with all due respect and plenty love, sounds like the worst idea posted on the wrestling part of this forum in a long time!

Ah, in fairness I'm probably not even going to argue that

But fact remains for me that Tyler Breeze seems to have been working NXT since before it was NXT and they seem no closer to calling him up, and he needs some way, any way of getting over.

In other news, yesterday's Twitter tease of Leo Kruger reappearing might be interesting (and then again, probably won't be).

Just finished watching, i thought it was a good episode tbh

Kudos to cena, that was a heck of a shot he took, continues to be the star of 2015 for me

Prometheus wrote:

Samo wrote:I knew RAW was onto a winner during the opening segment.

Tonight (Yes) for the first time ever (Ok this could be good)  The worlds largest athlete (Oh god no) The Big Show (done).

I'm possibly the only person in the world who feels sorry for Big Show.  I know I shouldn't as he continues to make bucket loads of money for what he does, but I do.

Back in the day, The Giant was one of the things that got me stopping changing the channel and watching WCW.  He was just so big and menacing that you couldn't not want to see what he could do to another man.  And that probably sounds odd now, because he was never a super athlete, but compare him to Andre or Giant Gonzalez, etc and he was a worker.

The story goes that WWE originally turned Paul Wight away on the basis of his lack of experience.  But, when they finally got their man it was probably at the best time possible.  He had experience, he was 27 and able to perform.  And, having found out what others were on in WCW he was probably genuinely peed off and ready to go out and prove a point.

I think Vince killed him nearly from day 1.  Big Show had to debut as his lackey.  And the name, the Big Show.  It literally sounds like, here is a circus, they may as well have just stuck a big red nose on Paul Wight's face.  Who's ever going to quiver in fear at something that summons up images of the circus?  Over exposed to a degree that few wrestlers have had to suffer, unprotected like no other main eventer and we all know about the continuous face and heel turns and comedy skits that he's gone with.

Now, I'm not going to say that Big Show has helped himself on occasion.  But even at 43, this dude should have the aura of Brock Lesnar when he steps in a ring.  It should be special, it should be scary.  It should look like he could crush a man with his bare hands.

He can still deliver on occasion, but the dude's not getting any younger and he's slowed to glacial pace.  And what's worst, he can't put anyone over.  You beat Big Show.  So what?  Everyone has beaten Big Show.  I'd love him to get one last run of having the fans hot for him.  It's never going to happen, but bring up Tyler Breeze.  Stick him in a tag team with Big Show.  Let Breeze want all the glory and get beaten up by whoever they are facing each match, before finally he sees the light and is able to tag in Big Show who clears house before Breeze recovers enough to get the win.  Just have him do what he does best, look very big.  

And then let him retire.  Because the saddest thing in wrestling for me is listening to fans chanting for Big Show to retire.  He's given a lot to wrestling and he's still given me a lot of moments that I fondly remember (who'll ever forget the ring breaking with Brock).

The Big Shows name hasn't done him any favours but it was just another daft play on words from McMahon to crap on WCW and Ted Turner....The Big Show > TBS

I think Show has suffered the same way that Mark Henry has in that there are so many changes to their characters that no one cares any more. Both were really dominant and looked unbeatable at one time or another but now they just seem to be filler feuds for other wrestlers who the company wants on TV. If everyone else is in a decent feud then it just goes back to them tagging then turning on each other.

I think that Mark Henry's case is potentially worse. At 29 years of age, signed up to a long term deal, they had him in the Mae Young hand angle.

Now, someone may correct me. But the way I understand that came about was that it was a punishment to him for not losing weight. Punishing him for that I have no problem with. But, why humiliate him in front of the audience, because no way does he come back from that in their eyes. When WWE's punishment is well over, the fans still remember that.

I forget now why Perry Saturn was punished with the moppy angle (though probably for drugs). And that was kind of okay, he wasn't a WWE man, he was out of control and they could send a message using him and then fire him.

But, post-Vader Mark Henry should have been the best big man powerhouse in wrestling and right when he should have been at his peak WWE killed that, which is just silly business.

I don't often post here, but I will do regarding Henry,

Henry's run as Heel champ a few years ago was one of the best heel champ runs for ages. With the bulk of the smackdown Roster injured or suspended Henry did a superb job of carrying that title for months.

Furthermore his fake retirement speech tears and all, was one of the best WWE promo's of the PG era surpassing Punk's pipe bomb IMO. The crowd were lapping it up. The World's strongest slam on Cena to cap it all off was just brilliant.

That run as an invincible monster all forgotten as he has slumped back down the card for one reason or another. It's a pity.

His retirement speech was excellent, I was completely sold.

Again, I think he was his own enemy at times. In the early days he did come across as having an attitude that he was on easy money or that wrestling didn't need effort. But I definitely felt that much of his booking hurt his career.

Henry wasnt anywhere near good enough in his early days. He grasped character all of a sudden a few years ago, but there were no real signs before that that he deserved better treatment than he was getting.

You cant argue that the retirement promo and most of the Hall of Pain run was excellent.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Henry wasnt anywhere near good enough in his early days. He grasped character all of a sudden a few years ago, but there were no real signs before that that he deserved better treatment than he was getting.

I blame the writers for that. Drew McIntyre was a great performer IMO I'll single out his perfomance at Elimination chamber 2011 IMO he stole the show.  A few months later he was in 3MB getting Squashed by Brodus Clay.

There are other stellar perfomers who get the shaft by creative. Your namesake instantly springs to mind too.

That character was in Henry all along and noone ever seemed to give him the chance.

Performing well/badly doesn't really seem to influence how creative books their talent.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
I blame the writers for that. Drew McIntyre was a great performer IMO I'll single out his perfomance at Elimination chamber 2011 IMO he stole the show.  A few months later he was in 3MB getting Squashed by Brodus Clay.

Apparently WWE have reached out to resign McIntyre and he's told them to shove it. Quite right. He's doing really well on the indies and WWE were stupid to waste him like they did.

Samo wrote:You cant argue that the retirement promo and most of the Hall of Pain run was excellent.

Im not, but you cant argue that his sudden skill was completely out of character for what he'd put on in the rest of his career.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Samo wrote:You cant argue that the retirement promo and most of the Hall of Pain run was excellent.

Im not, but you cant argue that his sudden skill was completely out of character for what he'd put on in the rest of his career.

But you are arguing that he had some sort of control of what he could come out, say and do?

Creative never gave Mark Henry the chance to be that character.

There are definite signs that Mark Henry thought he'd been given a huge bag of money for doing very little and wasn't at all into wrestling when he signed. And there was the issue that as they were paying so much for him they couldn't send him to OVW or another developmental for years.

But, that is still a problem for management to coach him and get the best out of him. A guy that size, you don't need to do a lot of character work with. Just let him be big. Work on a few basic move sets and just with his power of being able to pick anyone up he'd have worked.

He could have naturally developed more character (and face characteristics) as he'd got more comfortable wrestling and performing in front of many people. But I definitely think creative did more harm than good on what he could have been, even with the limitations he seemingly imposed on himself.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Samo wrote:You cant argue that the retirement promo and most of the Hall of Pain run was excellent.

Im not, but you cant argue that his sudden skill was completely out of character for what he'd put on in the rest of his career.

But you are arguing that he had some sort of control of what he could come out, say and do?

Creative never gave Mark Henry the chance to be that character.

He had some sort of control in how he held himself, promo'd and performed. Everyone is given direction, they are then tasked to use it.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Samo wrote:You cant argue that the retirement promo and most of the Hall of Pain run was excellent.

Im not, but you cant argue that his sudden skill was completely out of character for what he'd put on in the rest of his career.

But you are arguing that he had some sort of control of what he could come out, say and do?

Creative never gave Mark Henry the chance to be that character.

He had some sort of control in how he held himself, promo'd and performed. Everyone is given direction, they are then tasked to use it.

His direction was Mae Young and Sexual Chocolate. It's hard to run a hall of Pain gimmick under those circumstances !

He had more than that in his career though. He was poor before that, and in the years after (which was quite a long time, if you remember) he showed nothing too.