16 Years of Pro Rugby. How has it treated you?

How do you feel that your club/province/national side fared since the game went pro in 1995?

As an All Blacks supporter its probably been a double edged sword.

Pros. Greater emphasis on the squad created a wider pool of players
The tide of players crossing to "other codes" virtually ceased!
I get to see them play more times per year!

Cons. Loss of fringe and backup players before they realised their potential. (Nic Evans, Hayman, Gopperth )
Internationals no longer play in the local club comp. (third tier rugby I guess you would call it)

As for my provincial side the Highlanders overall success has been elusive.
One final appearance in 16 years speaks for itself.

I could probably add more but as a short time 606 viewer (RIP) now i 606v2 poster just wanted to shed my virginity fast!
Any way throw that one to you all!

I've only known Professional Rugby but even I know that prior to professionalism Ireland were very poor. Now Irish sides are amongst the best in Europe.

Well we (Welsh) have obvioulsy had to Slams in that time even if they were recent.

Late 90s we were terrible and one of the slowest to adapt to proffesionalism.

We obvioulsy lost our Club Structure which still hurts a lot of fans in the valleys areas.

I think we are producing better standard of players these days, harder players? Maybe not and we have seemed to have lost that hard edge especially in the 2nd row.

The game certainly had to go proffesional as it was dying a death likewise we had to go Regional

I'm like Red Stag - I can't remember rugby before professionalism. I think it was the case that everyone had to become professional to keep going.

Scotland's adjustment to the proffesional Era has been shambolic at best and disasterous at worst. Particularly at the international level.

However there have been a couple bright spots. Glasgow last year had a solid season and Andy Robinson's Edinburgh were phenomenal in the magners league if a little toothless in the real benchmark of the Heineken Cup.

With funding going down thanks to McKie and his blazer brigade the SRU has reached the tipping point. Scottish rugby is perhaps going to go into terminal decline if changes are not made.

We are very unhappy bunnies north of the border.

South of the border as well Radge!

On the playing side, the only real positive is the depth that's been created by the exile community going abroad for better rugby and more money.

The downside most stark at the moment is the latest exodus of youngsters and squad players. We were always going to lose the stars like Murray, Hines, Brown, Taylor, Evans, Lamonts etc. What's really sad is that the likes of MacKenzie and Vernon now see fit to leave, and Alex Blair and Mark Bennett won't be plying their trade in Scotland. That's fatal to the domestic game, and the influx of journeymen only serves to accelarate the problem.

I fear the remaining stars, the likes of Ford, Gray, Barclay, Beattie, Morrison and Visser etc. may not hang around long after the World Cup. Expect a big exodus next season.

funny,

Is there an answer to it or what would your answer be. I can understand players going for the money but what is/would be worrying is when players don't seem to move to the bigger clubs.

One example for you guys is Lamont at Scarlets, now not saying Scarlets are not a big club but they are in the same league.

Also from our point of view I do question Mitchell going to Exeter.

funnyExiledScot wrote:South of the border as well Radge!

Aye mate, I'm sure you exiles are not happy bunnies eaither!

funnyExiledScot wrote: I fear the remaining stars, the likes of Ford, Gray, Barclay, Beattie, Morrison and Visser etc. may not hang around long after the World Cup. Expect a big exodus next season.

I seriously hope you are wrong about this comment though. I don't think you are but I hope that you will prove to be. Losing the likes of the players you mentioned will indeed be the final nail in the coffin of professional Rugby in Scotland.

These players you mentioned (with the exception of Morrison) all I would say have the ability and skill to play in either thr French leagues or the premiership, and with the cash they would most likely be offered it is a certainty.

Although correct me if I'm wrong did Aberdeen Asset Management (Edinburgh's Main sponsor) not pay Ford's contract for the next 3 seasons?

In general I think rugby is in much better shape now than before professionalism. I was raised in the amateur days, and the differences are pronounced.

We now have a global structure, and real global standards. Players are compensated (elimination of sham-ateur payments/jobs), and have proper playing insurance and medical. We have proper leagues for our clubs and regions. The international game continues to grow (albeit fitfully, at times) and the Rugby World Cup is now the world's third largest sporting event, behind the Olympics and the soccer World Cup. Top tier nations are joined by second tier and third tier nation in having structured competitions to raise skills and expand the game.

Our players are much better athletes than ever (leaving aside the question about skills, though I believe they are better, too). The game is played faster and with more precision.

The television coverage is growing and is mostly very high quality. More matches are televised than ever before, which increases the number of people to watch and appreciate the game.

In other words, the whole of Rugby has changed dramatically from the days I was coming up. My personal opinion it is mostly for the best, as Rugby would be dying a slow death without accepting professionalism. For those of you too young to remember the pre-pro times, it is hard to put into words how significant the changes are.

What I also feel is important, though, is maintaining the strong respect and appreciation for the athletes, coaches and others who carried our great game from the 1800s to now. The history is important. I am also a strong supporter of the Lions (most of all) and Barabrians. They are each great concepts and are links to the past.

I hope I haven't rambled too long. Please let me know what you think.

Doc

I Agree with you Dr G.

In the amateur days it was grossly unfair that the players generated the revenue for their respective national body but received no recompense. Many players were left out of pocket if they went on overseas tours. If i recall rightly i think the IRB allowed for a "daily allowance"! Enough to buy a few beers and get your laundry done! This whole situation was untenable. In many ways its remarkable that it took the game so long to become professional.
In saying that there are plenty of stories that abound of players going to France and finding their new boots stuffed with cash. Probably not too dis-similar to today!

As Chairman Mao almost said about the impact of Rugby going Pro:

"it's too early to tell"

Ultimately professionalism will lead to the end of SH dominance. I estimate in 5-10 years time.

I think you're right but not that soon.
Pity money will spoil a good game.
China to beat US in RWC final 2035.
Since I'm a chinese kiwi I won't mind too much but still sad

I still have mixed feelings, especially at domestic level. Regional rugby in Wales still hasn't captured the imagination of fans, and the performances of the regions has bored me.

As a result ive decided not to renew my season ticket for the Ospreys, i'll still go to some of the games, but i'll probably just go and watch Bridgend instead

Bridgend,
I get you point aboout Wales. My thought was Rugby as a Global entity is in much better shape than in the days before professionalism. But it has certainly not been executed very well or evenly around the globe. I agree, Wales are still struggling with regions, both the concept and as rugby teams. It always appeared to me from an outside perspective that it was rushed through without due consideration or without a proper business plan. No wonder then, that the regional teams don't pull the local fans. But, I think Scotland are in worse shape. The SRU appear to be slowly ringing the life out of Rugby there. Again, from an outside perspective, it seems to be grossly mismanaged. Tragic. This is not to say other countries don't have problems. They do. But I think if rugby had not gone pro, we would be declining as a sport, leaving not much left. There is simply too much competition out there for spectators money and for top athletes.

The impact of professionalism on whether my team/region/country side wins stuff is of secondary importance to me. The great things about the amateur era were the sense of community it strengthened, and the appreciation that there's more to playing sport than winning.

Its disappointing to see how Big Money has led to the standards of wendyball creeping into our game. Talking back at the ref, diving, the erosion of club loyalty and so on. But professionalism was inevitable. Rugby only reflects the changes in wider society and society increasingly values money and private consumption more highly than community.

So I continue to watch and love the game, and continue to grumble about it.

I t has meant the introduction of the two best tournaments in world Rugby,3Ns
and Super 15`s.The steming of union players going league,rather the reverse.
The rise of Australia to be considered joint second best team in world rugby,the solid gains by some tier 2 sides.The confirmation of New Zealand Rugby catching up.after 1956 then passing and dominating World Rugby..The
decline of SA Rugby in comparison with it`s former dominance.The introduction of a lot of rather contradictory laws.The rise of first English,then Welsh,Then Irish Rugby.The downside the loss of major tours,the unhealthy obsession with RWC at the cost of 4 years in between results mattering.The large amount of SH imports not only in club ,but also disproportionally at test level in England especially.At the cost of academy players coming through.