Wales vs Ireland : Match Thread

[wales606]

First topic message reminder :

I don't see a match thread, so here one is.

This is a tough one to call, could go either way although I think Ireland have the edge on paper.

Wales: H Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons); A Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), T Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), S Williams (Scarlets, capt), E Walker (Ospreys); J Hook (Gloucester Rugby), M Phillips (Racing Metro); N Smith (Ospreys), R Hibbard (Gloucester), A Jarvis (Ospreys), J Ball (Scarlets), D Day (Bath Rugby), R Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby), J Tipuric (Ospreys, vice-capt), D Baker (Ospreys).

Replacements: R Evans (Scarlets), K Dacey (Cardiff Blues), S Andrews (Cardiff Blues), J King (Ospreys), T Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), Ll Williams (Cardiff Blues), G Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), M Morgan (Bristol Rugby).


Ireland: F Jones (Munster); A Trimble (Ulster), K Earls (Munster), D Cave (Ulster), F McFadden (Leinster); P Jackson (Ulster), E Reddan (Leinster); J McGrath (Leinster), R Strauss (Leinster), M Ross (Leinster); I Henderson (Ulster), D Ryan (Munster); J Murphy (Leinster), T O'Donnell (Munster), J Heaslip (Leinster, capt).

Replacements: R Best (Ulster), D Kilcoyne (Munster), M Bent (Leinster), D Tuohy (Ulster), C Henry (Ulster), K Marmion (Connacht), I Madigan (Leinster), S Zebo (Munster).

[Sin é]

[quote="Munchkin"]

A neutral panel of Welsh pundits pick Earls as man of the match and you still try and pick holes with him

It wasn't a great first half from Earls, but overall a good performance. He played well, as did many others, but against what turned out to be soft opposition. As for man of the match? Heaslip by some distance.

Well, I suppose Heaslip didn't get yellow carded and give away two penalties like his replacement Henry .... ops sorry, Heaslip did give away two penalties. Joe won't be happy about that.

I also see where Earls made more tackles than Heaslip - in fact, along with Ryan, he had the 2nd highest number of tackles. TOD was top tackler.

TOD's injury looks bad, but I still have hope that it's not as bad as it seems. I've landed badly on the hip before and the pain was excruciating, but the hip was ok and I was playing again after a 2 week break. That's the hope I'm clinging to anyway. He had a great game and you would think he did enough to make the cut.

Top performance from TOD today. Ireland's top tackler and won about 4 turnovers (according to Schmidt) in the first half. Fingers crossed it isn't serious. I don't like hip injuries.

[asoreleftshoulder]

I was delighted to see the standard of passing in the team has gone to another level.Ryan threw a 20 yard pass early in the first half that showed a glimpse of what was coming.

The longer Schmidt has these players the better they will get,we have a lot to work on but that was a hugely encouraging performance ,I can't wait for the return match and the England game where we'll see the first team in action.

[Notch]

Nah, what he said was there isn't much difference between the side we had out and our strongest side in terms of quality apart from O'Connell and Sexton. i.e. the second choice players are pushing the first choices and they could come in without the standard really dropping, apart from the understudies to those two players who are irreplaceable.

[wales606]

One of the commentors - Jiffy - said Ireland were only missing Sexton and POC from it being our strongest side. Strange comment I thought.

That's not what he said. He said that Ireland have a lot of depth so their second string is almost as strong as their first team - except for POC and Sexton who are far superior to their back-ups and that Ireland will be a threat as long as POC and Sexton are fit.

[Guest]

A neutral panel of Welsh pundits pick Earls as man of the match and you still try and pick holes with him

It wasn't a great first half from Earls, but overall a good performance. He played well, as did many others, but against what turned out to be soft opposition. As for man of the match? Heaslip by some distance.

Well, I suppose Heaslip didn't get yellow carded and give away two penalties like his replacement Henry  .... ops sorry, Heaslip did give away two penalties. Joe won't be happy about that.

I also see where Earls made more tackles than Heaslip - in fact, along with Ryan, he had the 2nd highest number of tackles. TOD was top tackler.

TOD's injury looks bad, but I still have hope that it's not as bad as it seems. I've landed badly on the hip before and the pain was excruciating, but the hip was ok and I was playing again after a 2 week break. That's the hope I'm clinging to anyway. He had a great game and you would think he did enough to make the cut.

Top performance from TOD today. Ireland's top tackler and won about 4 turnovers (according to Schmidt) in the first half. Fingers crossed it isn't serious. I don't like hip injuries.

Very poor effort from you, Sin é. Henry shouldn't have been carded and you know it.

You seem incapable of dealing with any criticism of Earls at all. Even when someone tells you he had a good game. Not a man of the match performance at all, but good and maybe good enough to get him on the plane. Heaslip was easily the best performer on the day.

Deal with it.....

Agree with you on TOD. It was a very impressive performance from him. Like you say; fingers crossed.

[Sin é]

A neutral panel of Welsh pundits pick Earls as man of the match and you still try and pick holes with him

It wasn't a great first half from Earls, but overall a good performance. He played well, as did many others, but against what turned out to be soft opposition. As for man of the match? Heaslip by some distance.

Well, I suppose Heaslip didn't get yellow carded and give away two penalties like his replacement Henry  .... ops sorry, Heaslip did give away two penalties. Joe won't be happy about that.

I also see where Earls made more tackles than Heaslip - in fact, along with Ryan, he had the 2nd highest number of tackles. TOD was top tackler.

TOD's injury looks bad, but I still have hope that it's not as bad as it seems. I've landed badly on the hip before and the pain was excruciating, but the hip was ok and I was playing again after a 2 week break. That's the hope I'm clinging to anyway. He had a great game and you would think he did enough to make the cut.

Top performance from TOD today. Ireland's top tackler and won about 4 turnovers (according to Schmidt) in the first half. Fingers crossed it isn't serious. I don't like hip injuries.

Very poor effort from you, Sin é. Henry shouldn't have been carded and you know it.

You seem incapable of dealing with any criticism of Earls at all. Even when someone tells you he had a good game. Not a man of the match performance at all, but good and maybe good enough to get him on the plane. Heaslip was easily the best performer on the day.

Deal with it.....

Same ref that everyone else had and Henry gets carded, the rest avoid it. 2 penalties in 25 minutes as well - Earls gets hammered for dropping a few balls in the first few minutes of the game.

Interesting analysis on RTE of the try Heislip scored from Shane Horgan - he gave the credit to TOD for fixing Tipuric. Its Heaslip's best performance in a long long time, so I think you are probably a bit confused by the shock of it.

[FecklessRogue]

I remember the warm up matches leading into the last two World Cups had me very worried. No alarm bells ringing one match in. Team looks like it's preparing well.

Any rumours of tantrums or indiscipline in the French camp yet?

[Guest]

A neutral panel of Welsh pundits pick Earls as man of the match and you still try and pick holes with him

It wasn't a great first half from Earls, but overall a good performance. He played well, as did many others, but against what turned out to be soft opposition. As for man of the match? Heaslip by some distance.

Well, I suppose Heaslip didn't get yellow carded and give away two penalties like his replacement Henry  .... ops sorry, Heaslip did give away two penalties. Joe won't be happy about that.

I also see where Earls made more tackles than Heaslip - in fact, along with Ryan, he had the 2nd highest number of tackles. TOD was top tackler.

TOD's injury looks bad, but I still have hope that it's not as bad as it seems. I've landed badly on the hip before and the pain was excruciating, but the hip was ok and I was playing again after a 2 week break. That's the hope I'm clinging to anyway. He had a great game and you would think he did enough to make the cut.

Top performance from TOD today. Ireland's top tackler and won about 4 turnovers (according to Schmidt) in the first half. Fingers crossed it isn't serious. I don't like hip injuries.

Very poor effort from you, Sin é. Henry shouldn't have been carded and you know it.

You seem incapable of dealing with any criticism of Earls at all. Even when someone tells you he had a good game. Not a man of the match performance at all, but good and maybe good enough to get him on the plane. Heaslip was easily the best performer on the day.

Deal with it.....

Same ref that everyone else had and Henry gets carded, the rest avoid it. 2 penalties in 25 minutes as well - Earls gets hammered for dropping a few balls in the first few minutes of the game.

Interesting analysis on RTE of the try Heislip scored from Shane Horgan - he gave the credit to TOD for fixing Tipuric. Its Heaslip's best performance in a long long time, so I think you are probably a bit confused by the shock of it.

If it wasn't for "the rest" Henry wouldn't have been carded at all. He took one for the team. The ref called it wrong. He wasn't off his feet, or at least when he was it was because the welsh lifted him off his feet.

Who is hammering Earls

P.s with regards your comment on Earls helping Trimble on the plane. If it wasn't for Trimble, Earls would never have scored his try

I'm sure if Earls makes it he will thank Trimble for his help

[Guest]

One of the commentors - Jiffy - said Ireland were only missing Sexton and POC from it being our strongest side. Strange comment I thought.

I think he was trying to comment on the strength of Ireland's wider squad, which- in relation to Wales' especially- is obviously quite strong. POC and Sexton are probably your two key players, in that when they're on form, they can lead you to victory against the very best. Aside from those two, he was stating that there is a lot of competition for places in the starting 15 (13?), and that some of the players playing for Ireland today could transition into that first fifteen with ease. I'm not sure I agree with him, as there are a number of quality Irish players other than POC and Sexton, but it was a passing comment of congratulations from Jiffy, wouldn't read too much into it.

[Pete330v2]

A neutral panel of Welsh pundits pick Earls as man of the match and you still try and pick holes with him

It wasn't a great first half from Earls, but overall a good performance. He played well, as did many others, but against what turned out to be soft opposition. As for man of the match? Heaslip by some distance.

Well, I suppose Heaslip didn't get yellow carded and give away two penalties like his replacement Henry  .... ops sorry, Heaslip did give away two penalties. Joe won't be happy about that.

I also see where Earls made more tackles than Heaslip - in fact, along with Ryan, he had the 2nd highest number of tackles. TOD was top tackler.

TOD's injury looks bad, but I still have hope that it's not as bad as it seems. I've landed badly on the hip before and the pain was excruciating, but the hip was ok and I was playing again after a 2 week break. That's the hope I'm clinging to anyway. He had a great game and you would think he did enough to make the cut.

Top performance from TOD today. Ireland's top tackler and won about 4 turnovers (according to Schmidt) in the first half. Fingers crossed it isn't serious. I don't like hip injuries.

Very poor effort from you, Sin é. Henry shouldn't have been carded and you know it.

You seem incapable of dealing with any criticism of Earls at all. Even when someone tells you he had a good game. Not a man of the match performance at all, but good and maybe good enough to get him on the plane. Heaslip was easily the best performer on the day.

Deal with it.....

Same ref that everyone else had and Henry gets carded, the rest avoid it. 2 penalties in 25 minutes as well - Earls gets hammered for dropping a few balls in the first few minutes of the game.

Interesting analysis on RTE of the try Heislip scored from Shane Horgan - he gave the credit to TOD for fixing Tipuric. Its Heaslip's best performance in a long long time, so I think you are probably a bit confused by the shock of it.

Oh for goodness sake Sin that's a crock of No2, Henry's yellow was a team yellow and you bloody well know it.
As for Earls, he was utter gash for the first 15 minutes but then grew into his position and excelled. In my tiny mind it takes a hell of a man to put a nightmare immediately behind him and get on with what's been expected of you. Earls did that in bucketloads and he should be packing right now. I've always been a fan of his but even that admiration has risen after today.
That being said Heaslip was easily MOTM for me, his best game in a hell of a long time. Even Reddan impressed me today but his task was hardly a difficult one given the ball he had presented to him on a platter.

Never the less, I've been so used to Ireland taking an age to get up to speed I'm a little shellshocked that they performed today. I know they barely got out of second gear and there's much more to come, it's exciting times.

[Guest]

Just seen several other people have pointed out what Jiffy meant, apologies.

Henry shouldn't have been carded and you know it.

Really? I think Ireland had that yellow card for hands in the ruck coming, and in a 'true' Test match may well have had someone sent to the bin two or three penalties earlier. Henry came off the ball after initially getting on it, the ruck was formed, and he went back to play the ball. Why do you think he shouldn't have been yellow carded?

[Guest]

Just seen several other people have pointed out what Jiffy meant, apologies.

Henry shouldn't have been carded and you know it.

Really? I think Ireland had that yellow card for hands in the ruck coming, and in a 'true' Test match may well have had someone sent to the bin two or three penalties earlier. Henry came off the ball after initially getting on it, the ruck was formed, and he went back to play the ball. Why do you think he shouldn't have been yellow carded?

Yes, really. I don't believe it was the right call. I think the ref called it wrong. The main thrust of my argument with Sin e wasn't so much about whether it was deserved or not, but more that it was a team yellow.

[Guest]

Fair enough.

I suppose it's difficult to really take an incident out of the context in which it occurs, therefore Henry's spoiling of the ball- which was marginal- was unlikely to be let off lightly. He would have known the penalty count against Ireland for hands in the ruck prior to his offence, and he would have known that challenging for the ball in that area of the pitch has added pressure to play the ball cleanly. I think there were a few problems, with Henry putting his weight on his hands as well as going on and off the ball, that makes it a penalty, even without the peripheral events that would have influenced the ref to award it as he did.

If it's 'not a yellow' because of the accumulation of penalties, then every such sin-binning is apparently not valid because the offence is not worthy of ten minutes' punishment if taken on its own. I don't really think that's a logical assessment: one man takes the hit for the team. It's a strange thing to then say "he shouldn't have been carded"; if not him, then who?

[Guest]

Fair enough.

I suppose it's difficult to really take an incident out of the context in which it occurs, therefore Henry's spoiling of the ball- which was marginal- was unlikely to be let off lightly. He would have known the penalty count against Ireland for hands in the ruck prior to his offence, and he would have known that challenging for the ball in that area of the pitch has added pressure to play the ball cleanly. I think there were a few problems, with Henry putting his weight on his hands as well as going on and off the ball, that makes it a penalty, even without the peripheral events that would have influenced the ref to award it as he did.

I would need to look at it again to be certain, but I don't think Henry was guilty. I think he contested fairly and I base that on the replay at the time. From memory, I think the commentators also thought it was the wrong call but, as I said; I would need to view it again.

Edit: Now that I've viewed the replay I'm still not sure. Henry put his weight on his hands for balance because he was lifted by the Welsh players, but granted that he perhaps should have moved his hands away. Marginal at worst I would say, and a team yellow in any case. Anyway, it's not something I feel strongly enough about to continue to argue over.

[Sin é]

A neutral panel of Welsh pundits pick Earls as man of the match and you still try and pick holes with him

It wasn't a great first half from Earls, but overall a good performance. He played well, as did many others, but against what turned out to be soft opposition. As for man of the match? Heaslip by some distance.

Well, I suppose Heaslip didn't get yellow carded and give away two penalties like his replacement Henry  .... ops sorry, Heaslip did give away two penalties. Joe won't be happy about that.

I also see where Earls made more tackles than Heaslip - in fact, along with Ryan, he had the 2nd highest number of tackles. TOD was top tackler.

TOD's injury looks bad, but I still have hope that it's not as bad as it seems. I've landed badly on the hip before and the pain was excruciating, but the hip was ok and I was playing again after a 2 week break. That's the hope I'm clinging to anyway. He had a great game and you would think he did enough to make the cut.

Top performance from TOD today. Ireland's top tackler and won about 4 turnovers (according to Schmidt) in the first half. Fingers crossed it isn't serious. I don't like hip injuries.

Very poor effort from you, Sin é. Henry shouldn't have been carded and you know it.

You seem incapable of dealing with any criticism of Earls at all. Even when someone tells you he had a good game. Not a man of the match performance at all, but good and maybe good enough to get him on the plane. Heaslip was easily the best performer on the day.

Deal with it.....

Same ref that everyone else had and Henry gets carded, the rest avoid it. 2 penalties in 25 minutes as well - Earls gets hammered for dropping a few balls in the first few minutes of the game.

Interesting analysis on RTE of the try Heislip scored from Shane Horgan - he gave the credit to TOD for fixing Tipuric. Its Heaslip's best performance in a long long time, so I think you are probably a bit confused by the shock of it.

Oh for goodness sake Sin that's a crock of No2, Henry's yellow was a team yellow and you bloody well know it.
As for Earls, he was utter gash for the first 15 minutes but then grew into his position and excelled. In my tiny mind it takes a hell of a man to put a nightmare immediately behind him and get on with what's been expected of you. Earls did that in bucketloads and he should be packing right now. I've always been a fan of his but even that admiration has risen after today.
That being said Heaslip was easily MOTM for me, his best game in a hell of a long time. Even Reddan impressed me today but his task was hardly a difficult one given the ball he had presented to him on a platter.

Never the less, I've been so used to Ireland taking an age to get up to speed I'm a little shellshocked that they performed today. I know they barely got out of second gear and there's much more to come, it's exciting times.

It was Henry's second penalty within 3 minutes.

I just rewatched the first 15 minutes and Earls was certainly not gash. He took a few restarts really well. He knocked on once when he actually slipped (which is not unusual in a hot and sweaty Millennium stadium - which is a real negative for the Millennium Stadium when the roof is closed). In the first 20 minutes, the forwards mostly had the ball. The backs hardly touched it.

Don't confuse being man of the match with someone who was having a better game in a long time. Heaslip was good, but he gave away 2 penalties which is very poor for someone of his experience.

[GavinDragon]

First of all you have to congratulate Ireland who were ruthless with their first few opportunities and clearly on top at the breakdown and scrum time. That is your second string and you are looking very good going into the WC on that performance.

For us, I think we need to consider the ages and experience of a few match ups.

We had jarvis. our third choice TH, against mcgrath - their 3nd choice LH and able deputy to Healey.

We also had nicky smith against their first choice TH. So in reality it is no wonder that the scrum struggled.

With the scrum struggling so badly and the inability to get any quick ball from the ruck out, it is no surprise that our back row and bacline were ineffective.

I think Hook and Phillips are done at this level on that performance.

Baker, although injured, will not be going to the WC. He has excellent feet and always beats the first man - however as he is relatively small for an int 8 he doesnt have the bulk to get us over the gainline from a standing start.

I think Tyler Morgan looked a bit overwhelmed if I am honest. The lad could still be in the u20's so hopefully this doesn't dent his confidence too much. Has being the youngest NDC registered playeer put too much expectation/pressure on him?

It is also squeaky bum time for cuthbert. I felt Eli Walker looked sharper and hallam amos was more involved with some nice touches.

Generally, did anyone think we looked heavy legged in the first half? And if so, how can that bloody be when the squad have been through the most intense camp ever?!

[offload]

Generally, did anyone think we looked heavy legged in the first half? And if so, how can that bloody be when the squad have been through the most intense camp ever?!

Maybe next time they jet off for and "intense camp" they should remember to take a rugby ball !

[Seagultaf]

No great surprise Ireland picked a stronger 22 with less fringe players (and no hopers) than Wales. Hook proved what we already knew, that he is not an international class 10, Phillips I thought did ok behind a well beaten pack where only Tiputic and Ball looked to be up to this level. Young Smith will come and Evans played well when he came on, but Jarvis struggled all game and Andrews was very poor. Hubbard is now third choice, his line out work is poor and also his scrummaging, his occasional charges and big tackles will not compensate for his other shortcomings. Baker will play better and Moriarty was good in parts, but stupid swinging arm which ended any chance Wales had of making the game into a contest.

In the backs, Amos tried hard and Anscombe looked sharp when he came on, Lloyd Williams has been praised but got caught in possession far too many times for me. Scott Williams can play much better, not sure who was leading the defence, it's usually the 13 but whoever it was they did not do well! Cuthbert was rubbish and Walker good only in patches.

I expect Scott Williams, Amos, Anscombe, Ball, Tipuric and Faletau to make the WC squad with Evans, Baker, Walker, King, and Jarvis as potential and the others playing for their clubs in the autumn.

[SecretFly]

Generally, did anyone think we looked heavy legged in the first half? And if so, how can that bloody be when the squad have been through the most intense camp ever?!

The Famous Welsh slow start?

By November they won't have legs, they'll have wings... ...not the Heavenly ones, the Nike ones.

[ME-109]

Welsh looked exactly what they were a scratch team lacking combinations in important areas. Ireland looked well drilled as expected from a Joe team. Wouldn't read to much into it from an Ireland point of view.

[mikey_dragon]

One of the commentors - Jiffy - said Ireland were only missing Sexton and POC from it being our strongest side. Strange comment I thought.

I think he was trying to comment on the strength of Ireland's wider squad, which- in relation to Wales' especially- is obviously quite strong. POC and Sexton are probably your two key players, in that when they're on form, they can lead you to victory against the very best. Aside from those two, he was stating that there is a lot of competition for places in the starting 15 (13?), and that some of the players playing for Ireland today could transition into that first fifteen with ease. I'm not sure I agree with him, as there are a number of quality Irish players other than POC and Sexton, but it was a passing comment of congratulations from Jiffy, wouldn't read too much into it.

That's what I would read into that comment too. Throw in Sexon and POC, perhaps POM as well and you have a team that is pretty much as good as the first team. That shows Ireland's depth right now - players from all four provincial teams actually fighting for a spot in the Ireland team. It hasn't always been this way, Ireland have had a bit of surge in players in the last few years, that's testament to the work of the provincial teams and IRFU.

[mikey_dragon]

Generally, did anyone think we looked heavy legged in the first half? And if so, how can that bloody be when the squad have been through the most intense camp ever?!

Maybe next time they jet off for and "intense camp" they should remember to take a rugby ball !

No I didn't think that. I thought the players looked sharp, strong and not lacking in any sort of fitness. They were just unorganised and as a result of being second best couldn't get their hands on the ball often. You would expect that I guess when Ireland put out a good team. Realistically ours was 3rd choice at best - 4 new caps with 2 on the bench. Ireland were able to field guys like Best, Ross, Toner, Henry, Heaslip. I didn't notice any such gap in intensity. I noticed a gap in experience which affected playing ability.

[mikey_dragon]

Interesting comments about Hibbard, it's as if people have only just noticed. IMO he clearly slipped to third choice during the 6 Nations where his poor form coincided with the emergence of Baldwin and Dacey, with Owens in the mix too. I guess it's no surprise as Hibbard is coming to the end of his career. He is an able replacement and third choice, but it should be Baldwin to start IMO.

This match wasn't a game for wingers; when considering that Amos and Walker did very well, as did Matthew Morgan when he came on. Cuthbert still seemed pretty ineffective which is representation of his form over the season, I think in Gatland's head he is still in the final squad. Remember Liam Williams probably won't get a reintroduction until the Uruguay game.

[mikey_dragon]

Generally, did anyone think we looked heavy legged in the first half? And if so, how can that bloody be when the squad have been through the most intense camp ever?!

The Famous Welsh slow start?

By November they won't have legs, they'll have wings... ...not the Heavenly ones, the Nike ones.

I wonder, during this Kiwi agreement did Gatland expect Schmidt to delay his team announcement and put in so many of his top players? The return fixture will be a very different Wales team and a grudge match. Look out .

[TightHEAD]

WRU should offer a refund for the 1st 40 mins, pure tripe. As for the new kit AZ Alkmaar have the same kit but with white flashes instead of GOLD!

[mikey_dragon]

WRU should offer a refund for the 1st 40 mins, pure tripe. As for the new kit AZ Alkmaar have the same kit but with white flashes instead of GOLD!

Why would they offer a refund? The WRU run the business support side. Team selection, coaching and performance is out of their hands. Plus if you're a supporter, then you get behind anyone who wears the jersey. Can't argue with the full house, seems the marketing department did well. The new kit is rather grotesque, the WRU can actually be held accountable for that!

[Engine#4]

Thought Earls was great going forward and wouldn't criticize him for a few dropped balls. He got through an amount of work and was always showing in support. Flapped at a couple of tackles though.

Would have given Strauss MOM and I was impressed by Ryan, McFadden, Trimble before he went off and Zebo when he came on.

[SecretFly]

Welsh looked exactly what they were a scratch team lacking combinations in important areas. Ireland looked well drilled as expected from a Joe team. Wouldn't read to much into it from an Ireland point of view.

The old cobwebbed saying: You can only play what's in front of you.  

Yes, Wales and Gatland will be planning much more important stuff for their war of the ages Pool of Death.  They won't be sounding too many alarm bells about that game against Ireland.  It was in essence just a training ground game for both sides that asked a few thousand diehards in to pay for the privilege of watching it.

But I guess that would be my point.  Schmidt will have had many other things on his mind too besides trying to make any big claims about a victory in Cardiff. Joe probably even planned for a loss and bloody Gatland pulled a fast one again - the bastereaud!  
Meanwhile though, Joe just yawned us into 2nd in the World Rankings (which is a 1st   ) without building up too much of a sweat in a pre-season improv game.  The  greyscale 'pragmatism' continues.....

[SecretFly]

Generally, did anyone think we looked heavy legged in the first half? And if so, how can that bloody be when the squad have been through the most intense camp ever?!

The Famous Welsh slow start?

By November they won't have legs, they'll have wings... ...not the Heavenly ones, the Nike ones.

I wonder, during this Kiwi agreement did Gatland expect Schmidt to delay his team announcement and put in so many of his top players? The return fixture will be a very different Wales team and a grudge match. Look out .

Nah...Joe is planning to churn out an Academy fifteen for that return leg. It'll be great experience for the young lads to get clobbered by the Welsh Demi-God A Squadron.

[mikey_dragon]

Generally, did anyone think we looked heavy legged in the first half? And if so, how can that bloody be when the squad have been through the most intense camp ever?!

The Famous Welsh slow start?

By November they won't have legs, they'll have wings... ...not the Heavenly ones, the Nike ones.

I wonder, during this Kiwi agreement did Gatland expect Schmidt to delay his team announcement and put in so many of his top players? The return fixture will be a very different Wales team and a grudge match. Look out .

Nah...Joe is planning to churn out an Academy fifteen for that return leg.  It'll be great experience for the young lads to get clobbered by the Welsh Demi-God A Squadron.

Nah it's the Leinster team in the return fixture isn't it butt? Hopefully you fans haven't also been lulled into a false sense of security over yesterday. The gods of mount Olympus will be seeing you on 29th August.

[SecretFly]

Gats:  Why five?

Joe:  Why not?  If we've decided we're going to win this time and do the more positive attack game then why worry about how many?

Gats:  I'm not worried, mate.  I'm asking a simple question and you're evading it.  Why do you want us to let your lads score five?

Joe:  It's a nice number?  What are you getting so aggressive about Warren?  We decided on the toss that we'd win in Cardiff and you'd win in Dublin.  What's wrong with five?

Gats:  It thought we'd agree to a closer game for morale and that.  The Pink Cowboy hat brigade might feel a little cheated by five.  I think it's too much.

Joe:  So you can have three then.....in the second half.... when it's too late to win.  Can't have your guys winning by mistake.  But that would be good for the excitement of a 'Might Do it' game???  The punters would go for that, wouldn't they.  Jiffy would have something to hope for up in the box?

Gats:  Well...not too happy about it, mate but.................... put it there.  It's a deal.

Joe:  And remember what we agreed about Tom O'Donnell.  He's not to be touched.

Gats: .......................sure, not to be touched.  We won't lay a finger on him.

[TightHEAD]

The whole thing was a farce

[bedfordwelsh]

Why are people making such a fuss over this? In previous World cups when they have had friendlies the English and French have always talked about squads etc.

[Fanster]

Welsh looked exactly what they were a scratch team lacking combinations in important areas. Ireland looked well drilled as expected from a Joe team. Wouldn't read to much into it from an Ireland point of view.

The old cobwebbed saying: You can only play what's in front of you.  

Yes, Wales and Gatland will be planning much more important stuff for their war of the ages Pool of Death.  They won't be sounding too many alarm bells about that game against Ireland.  It was in essence just a training ground game for both sides that asked a few thousand diehards in to pay for the privilege of watching it.

But I guess that would be my point.  Schmidt will have had many other things on his mind too besides trying to make any big claims about a victory in Cardiff.  Joe probably even planned for a loss and bloody Gatland pulled a fast one again - the bastereaud!  
Meanwhile though, Joe just yawned us into 2nd in the World Rankings (which is a 1st   ) without building up too much of a sweat in a pre-season improv game.  The  greyscale 'pragmatism' continues.....

Bull poop! Sell out crowd, 75000 superb atmosphere considering what it was, very few Irish support but that was to be expected, hats off to the few diehards for making what could have been a drab occasion an absolute great day out in the sun!

[The Great Aukster]

Yes Strauss booked his place as third hooker, Heaslip was excellent and Reddan. Schmidt finally brought out the 13 in Earls and Ryan got a full 80 which will do his chances no harm. It's a pity for TOD who had a good game. Can't see McFadden, Jones or Cave making the cut - not sure about Jackson either.

[Marshes]

Yes Strauss booked his place as third hooker, Heaslip was excellent and Reddan. Schmidt finally brought out the 13 in Earls and Ryan got a full 80 which will do his chances no harm. It's a pity for TOD who had a good game. Can't see McFadden, Jones or Cave making the cut - not sure about Jackson either.

Cave didn't do himself any harm, ran some fantastic lines and picked great passes, he and Earls combined well. He would cover 12/13, so I wouldn't be too shocked, maybe another look against Scotland. McFadden probably not, but I'd say Jones and Jackson will be there

[Notch]

Why are people making such a fuss over this?  In previous World cups when they have had friendlies the English and French have always talked about squads etc.  

When tickets are being sold for £5 you can't complain. Good move by the WRU. Tickets for Irelands games are still coming in at 50 euros plus despite the pre-season nature of these tests...

[Marshes]

A neutral panel of Welsh pundits pick Earls as man of the match and you still try and pick holes with him

It wasn't a great first half from Earls, but overall a good performance. He played well, as did many others, but against what turned out to be soft opposition. As for man of the match? Heaslip by some distance.

Well, I suppose Heaslip didn't get yellow carded and give away two penalties like his replacement Henry  .... ops sorry, Heaslip did give away two penalties. Joe won't be happy about that.

I also see where Earls made more tackles than Heaslip - in fact, along with Ryan, he had the 2nd highest number of tackles. TOD was top tackler.

TOD's injury looks bad, but I still have hope that it's not as bad as it seems. I've landed badly on the hip before and the pain was excruciating, but the hip was ok and I was playing again after a 2 week break. That's the hope I'm clinging to anyway. He had a great game and you would think he did enough to make the cut.

Top performance from TOD today. Ireland's top tackler and won about 4 turnovers (according to Schmidt) in the first half. Fingers crossed it isn't serious. I don't like hip injuries.

Very poor effort from you, Sin é. Henry shouldn't have been carded and you know it.

You seem incapable of dealing with any criticism of Earls at all. Even when someone tells you he had a good game. Not a man of the match performance at all, but good and maybe good enough to get him on the plane. Heaslip was easily the best performer on the day.

Deal with it.....

Same ref that everyone else had and Henry gets carded, the rest avoid it. 2 penalties in 25 minutes as well - Earls gets hammered for dropping a few balls in the first few minutes of the game.

Interesting analysis on RTE of the try Heislip scored from Shane Horgan - he gave the credit to TOD for fixing Tipuric. Its Heaslip's best performance in a long long time, so I think you are probably a bit confused by the shock of it.

Oh for goodness sake Sin that's a crock of No2, Henry's yellow was a team yellow and you bloody well know it.
As for Earls, he was utter gash for the first 15 minutes but then grew into his position and excelled. In my tiny mind it takes a hell of a man to put a nightmare immediately behind him and get on with what's been expected of you. Earls did that in bucketloads and he should be packing right now. I've always been a fan of his but even that admiration has risen after today.
That being said Heaslip was easily MOTM for me, his best game in a hell of a long time. Even Reddan impressed me today but his task was hardly a difficult one given the ball he had presented to him on a platter.

Never the less, I've been so used to Ireland taking an age to get up to speed I'm a little shellshocked that they performed today. I know they barely got out of second gear and there's much more to come, it's exciting times.

It was Henry's second penalty within 3 minutes.

I just rewatched the first 15 minutes and Earls was certainly not gash. He took a few restarts really well. He knocked on once when he actually slipped (which is not unusual in a hot and sweaty Millennium stadium - which is a real negative for the Millennium Stadium when the roof is closed). In the first 20 minutes, the forwards mostly had the ball. The backs hardly touched it.

Don't confuse being man of the match with someone who was having a better game in a long time. Heaslip was good, but he gave away 2 penalties which is very poor for someone of his experience.

In the first 25 minutes Earls knocked on twice in promising attacks and was held up short when he got a bit isolated. He also gave away a penalty when lazy getting back, but he grew into the game and was brilliant after that, which given how long out he has been is to be expected.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Welsh looked exactly what they were a scratch team lacking combinations in important areas. Ireland looked well drilled as expected from a Joe team. Wouldn't read to much into it from an Ireland point of view.

The old cobwebbed saying: You can only play what's in front of you.  

Yes, Wales and Gatland will be planning much more important stuff for their war of the ages Pool of Death.  They won't be sounding too many alarm bells about that game against Ireland.  It was in essence just a training ground game for both sides that asked a few thousand diehards in to pay for the privilege of watching it.

But I guess that would be my point.  Schmidt will have had many other things on his mind too besides trying to make any big claims about a victory in Cardiff.  Joe probably even planned for a loss and bloody Gatland pulled a fast one again - the bastereaud!  
Meanwhile though, Joe just yawned us into 2nd in the World Rankings (which is a 1st   ) without building up too much of a sweat in a pre-season improv game.  The  greyscale 'pragmatism' continues.....

Bull poop! Sell out crowd, 75000 superb atmosphere considering what it was, very few Irish support but that was to be expected, hats off to the few diehards for making what could have been a drab occasion an absolute great day out in the sun!

Speaking of a day in the sun, did anyone explain why the roof was shut?

[bedfordwelsh]

Pretty sure I read it has to be closed for the WC so was closed Saturday so Ireland had bit more time playing under it closed.

[rodders]

Very impressed by Ireland as we are notoriously very poor in these sorts of game and usually take time to click after a long lay off.

The players looked very fit,sharp and the skill level looked higher than in the 6N, so whatever the preparation is they are doing is working so far.

Earls caught the eye was a deserved motm but for me Strauss, Heaslip, Reddan, Ryan and Jordi Murphy were all superb and created a really strong spine.

Cave is a revelation at 12 and could pip D'arcy on that showing - certainly he will have enhanced his future chances and gelled very well with Earls, his old u-20s partner.

Felix Jones was very good at the back and Trimble and Zebo have thrown down the gauntlet to Bowe and Fitzgerald, with both producing 2 of the standout moments - Trimbs flattening Walker and Zebo's pass for the Jones try.

Disappointed to concede the 3 tries but overall that is a very good performance which will put huge pressure on the guys who come in against Scotland.

Wales were surprisingly poor - could be that they are still feeling the effects of the extreme fitness work they are doing and are a bit further behind in their preparation, so wouldn't read too much into it.

[maestegmafia]

Aye Rodders it has been well reported that the Welsh camp put very little effort into their rugby training recently.

The public seem rather divided in opinion about the teams focus on fitness.

There were some positives for us to take from the game. Very few from up front in the set piece though.

I wonder how much the two camps training patterns have differed recently?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

They put plenty of effort into their training, it just wasn't rugby training.

[Chunky Norwich]

Any rumours of tantrums or indiscipline in the French camp yet?

You don't need any of that. You have your mate Nigel O'wens refereeing you to the win.

[SecretFly]

Welsh looked exactly what they were a scratch team lacking combinations in important areas. Ireland looked well drilled as expected from a Joe team. Wouldn't read to much into it from an Ireland point of view.

The old cobwebbed saying: You can only play what's in front of you.  

Yes, Wales and Gatland will be planning much more important stuff for their war of the ages Pool of Death.  They won't be sounding too many alarm bells about that game against Ireland.  It was in essence just a training ground game for both sides that asked a few thousand diehards in to pay for the privilege of watching it.

Bull poop! Sell out crowd, 75000 superb atmosphere considering what it was, very few Irish support but that was to be expected, hats off to the few diehards for making what could have been a drab occasion an absolute great day out in the sun!

Hmmm....bull poop, you say???  Wot a wicked lad you are  Bullschidt eh?  
But thus my point about "a few thousand".  I consider 75000 a 'few thousand' in casual debating parlance terms.

My point, given that you seem to have missed it, is that the crowd might have indeed enjoyed the day out in the sun under the closed roof...but it's certain Gatland and Schmidt never planned a genuine full blooded competitive game between the sides to entertain them with.  It was a training game behind closed doors.... where people (75,000 of them) were invited behind the closed door (and roof) for a price.
Schmidt perhaps testing out a more expansive game a tad, and Gats allowing him to do so by testing out some of his fringe operators.  I'm happy with that.  I'm very suspicious of too many friendlies before a big competition anyway and Ireland have I think too many for safety sake.  I don't mind the set-up aspect.  They are trial games, as in coaches trialling ideas and players.  But the spade is a spade, Fanster.

[SecretFly]

I wonder how much the two camps training patterns have differed recently?

The difference between a Bondesque Vodka Martini with a cinematic cherry and a wet pint of sticky aging head on a depressed Guinness in Galway

[rodders]

Aye Rodders it has been well reported that the Welsh camp put very little effort into their rugby training recently.

The public seem rather divided in opinion about the teams focus on fitness.

There were some positives for us to take from the game. Very few from up front in the set piece though.

I wonder how much the two camps training patterns have differed recently?

Yes this was something I was interested to see, given the contrast between the 2 sides preseason - Wales going for the type of brutal training camps that served them so well in the past and Ireland staying at home and letting the players train under the radar at their provinces,

Could be the Welsh guys are a bit further away from match sharpness and feeling the effects of the training camps - the final warm up game will show better whether they've got it wrong or not.

Ireland famously made a shambles of their 2007 preparation with whatever went on in spala leaving many of the players as shells of themselves, so these warm-up games are interesting to watch as really poor form here can spill into the rwc if the teams miscalculate their preparation.

As a first game I'm really happy but won't look too far ahead and probably Wales won't either.....

[maestegmafia]

Welsh looked exactly what they were a scratch team lacking combinations in important areas. Ireland looked well drilled as expected from a Joe team. Wouldn't read to much into it from an Ireland point of view.

The old cobwebbed saying: You can only play what's in front of you.  

Yes, Wales and Gatland will be planning much more important stuff for their war of the ages Pool of Death.  They won't be sounding too many alarm bells about that game against Ireland.  It was in essence just a training ground game for both sides that asked a few thousand diehards in to pay for the privilege of watching it.

Bull poop! Sell out crowd, 75000 superb atmosphere considering what it was, very few Irish support but that was to be expected, hats off to the few diehards for making what could have been a drab occasion an absolute great day out in the sun!

Hmmm....bull poop, you say???  Wot a wicked lad you are  Bullschidt eh?  
But thus my point about "a few thousand".  I consider 75000 a 'few thousand' in casual debating parlance terms.

My point, given that you seem to have missed it, is that the crowd might have indeed enjoyed the day out in the sun under the closed roof...but it's certain Gatland and Schmidt never planned a genuine full blooded competitive game between the sides to entertain them with.  It was a training game behind closed doors.... where people (75,000 of them) were invited behind the closed door (and roof) for a price.
Schmidt perhaps testing out a more expansive game a tad, and Gats allowing him to do so by testing out some of his fringe operators.  I'm happy with that.  I'm very suspicious of too many friendlies before a big competition anyway and Ireland have I think too many for safety sake.  I don't mind the set-up aspect.  They are trial games, as in coaches trialling ideas and players.  But the spade is a spade, Fanster.

Ireland are playing more test matches than most pre RWC. It will be interesting to see what effect that has on their prospects.

[SecretFly]

Why are people always pondering about Wales and slow starts?

It's not exactly a mystery.  They do the hardest of hard groundwork preparation in fitness terms and then warm up the gameplay intensity bit by bit as minds adapt to the reasons for all the pain with the gas tanks pleasantly on full and bodies feeling light and powerful doing what all the hard training was meant to enable.

You could say it's blueprint Gatland Wales.  And yet the pages are still full of people scratching their heads and wondering.

Yis are all playing characters in a movie.  Concerned Onlooker: "Oh tings is looking bad for Wales????  Too much training!!!!"

[SecretFly]

Ireland are playing more test matches than most pre RWC. It will be interesting to see what effect that has on their prospects.

I'm hoping Schmidt has his reasons, Maest.  
And I'm hoping it's not the IRFU overcompensating for assumed shortfalls in gametime before a previous WC.  
That muck-up seems to still haunt both players and the IRFU.  But if there is a tendency to go too much the other way, and have too many pre-games that might become decidedly more competitive as time goes on, then the risks are great that a central player or two is gone before the WC even begins.
Plus you get it harder and harder to conceal any differences in gameplans that you intend to bring to the WC, as friendly encounters keep coaxing you to try a few of them prematurely.

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